Re: [ACFUG Discuss] SOT: Do you know any local designers?

[Howard Fore]

Try Gillian and Aaron Norrie at Garcan Design. I've worked with both
of them in the past and have nothing but good things to say about
them. They're local, drop Gillian a line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 1/9/07, jonese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

anyone else?



--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] SOT: Do you know any local designers?

[Chris C. Cooper]

I can co-sign on Garcan, I've used them on an interface design and they did
an excellent job. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Fore
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:53 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] SOT: Do you know any local designers?

Try Gillian and Aaron Norrie at Garcan Design. I've worked with both
of them in the past and have nothing but good things to say about
them. They're local, drop Gillian a line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 1/9/07, jonese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> anyone else?


-- 
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Robert Reil]

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Shawn . Gorrell]

Database Design For Mere Mortals


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect
Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449



Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/12/2007 09:45 AM
Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org


To
discussion@acfug.org
cc

Subject
[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?






Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what 
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Howard Fore]

Amen!

On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Database Design For Mere Mortals




--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby sabba
/ Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba naba /
Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine



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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Dean H. Saxe]

Ditto.  Eventually reach guru status by reading SQL for Smarties by  
Joe Celko.  Its not about design but about how to use the DB and SQL.


-dhs


Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak  
minds."

--Einstein


On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Database Design For Mere Mortals


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect
Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449


Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/12/2007 09:45 AM
Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org


To
discussion@acfug.org
cc
Subject
[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?





Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand  
things

about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,  
foreign

keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me  
command line

notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN  
MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what  
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to  
do in

designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Precia]

Absolutely!

On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Database Design For Mere Mortals


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect
Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449


  *Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

01/12/2007 09:45 AM   Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org

   To
discussion@acfug.org  cc
  Subject
[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?




Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Teddy Payne]

MySQL Crash Course (Sams Teach Yourself in 10 Minutes) by Ben Forta

On 1/12/07, Precia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Absolutely!

On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
>
> Database Design For Mere Mortals
>
>
> Shawn Gorrell
> Web Development Applications Architect
> Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
> Office (404)  498-8449
>
>
>   *Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 01/12/2007 09:45 AM   Please respond to
> discussion@acfug.org
>
>To
> discussion@acfug.org  cc
>   Subject
> [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?
>
>
>
>
> Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
> about DB design.
> Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?
>
> I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,
> foreign
> keys, scripts, etc.
>
> I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command
> line
> notes.
> I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
> But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
> changes
> to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do
> in
> designing our Corporate Intranet.
>
> Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert P. Reil
> Managing Director,
> Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.
> 4292 Country Garden Walk NW
> Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> Office 770-974-8851
> Fax 770-974-8852
> www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> 
http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> 
http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
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> -



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--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org



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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Robert Reil]

Shawn, and others:
Thanks, your unanimous agreement cinches it as the next book after finishing
the WACK 3 months from now. I remember Shawn sharing that this was the book
in the past but I forgot the name. I am now ready to buy.

Dean: 
Thanks for the additional words. I will also get SQL for Smarties by Joe
Celko also. I know I will need to build scripts etc in due time and such.
This seems that it will be a good primer for that.


Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com 

-Original Message-
From: Dean H. Saxe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:57 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Ditto.  Eventually reach guru status by reading SQL for Smarties by Joe
Celko.  Its not about design but about how to use the DB and SQL.

-dhs


Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
 --Einstein


On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> Database Design For Mere Mortals
>
>
> Shawn Gorrell
> Web Development Applications Architect Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta 
> Office (404)  498-8449
>
>
> Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 01/12/2007 09:45 AM
> Please respond to
> discussion@acfug.org
>
>
> To
> discussion@acfug.org
> cc
> Subject
> [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?
>
>
>
>
>
> Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand  
> things
> about DB design.
> Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?
>
> I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,  
> foreign
> keys, scripts, etc.
>
> I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me  
> command line
> notes.
> I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN  
> MASON!!).
> But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what  
> changes
> to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to  
> do in
> designing our Corporate Intranet.
>
> Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert P. Reil
> Managing Director,
> Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
> 4292 Country Garden Walk NW
> Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> Office 770-974-8851
> Fax 770-974-8852
> www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> -
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> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Charlie Arehart]

Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals book.
As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.

I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post the
books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of bringing
desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to track
it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.

That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the
next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Dean H. Saxe]

No, its not a primer at all.  Get comfortable with SQL.  Then get  
guru status by reading and understanding Celko's book.  Its not for  
the faint of heart.


-dhs


Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here in America everything is bought and sold, you can get anything  
for little bits of gold.
We'll rape the earth and ruin the air, cut down every tree from here  
to there.

-- Donna The Buffalo "America"


On Jan 12, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Robert Reil wrote:


Shawn, and others:
Thanks, your unanimous agreement cinches it as the next book after  
finishing
the WACK 3 months from now. I remember Shawn sharing that this was  
the book

in the past but I forgot the name. I am now ready to buy.

Dean:
Thanks for the additional words. I will also get SQL for Smarties  
by Joe
Celko also. I know I will need to build scripts etc in due time and  
such.

This seems that it will be a good primer for that.


Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com

-Original Message-
From: Dean H. Saxe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:57 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Ditto.  Eventually reach guru status by reading SQL for Smarties by  
Joe

Celko.  Its not about design but about how to use the DB and SQL.

-dhs


Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak  
minds."

 --Einstein


On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Database Design For Mere Mortals


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449


Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/12/2007 09:45 AM
Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org


To
discussion@acfug.org
cc
Subject
[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?





Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand
things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,
foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me
command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN
MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to
do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Shawn . Gorrell]

My copy is on loan somewhere or I'd offer it.

I've got more programming books than God and would be totally willing to 
put them in a loaner program. 


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect
Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449



"Charlie Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/12/2007 10:22 AM
Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org


To

cc

Subject
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?






Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals 
book.
As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.

I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post 
the
books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of bringing
desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to 
track
it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.

That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the
next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what 
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Teddy Payne]

I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books out
at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.

www.safaribooksonline.com

The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
certain chapters of certain books.

Teddy

On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals
book.
As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.

I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post
the
books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of bringing
desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to
track
it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.

That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the
next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com


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Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org



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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Teddy Payne]

By the way, the "..Mere Mortals" book is in their library.

Teddy


On 1/12/07, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books
out at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.

www.safaribooksonline.com

The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
certain chapters of certain books.

Teddy

 On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals
> book.
> As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.
>
> I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post
> the
> books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of
> bringing
> desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to
> track
> it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
> renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.
>
> That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the
>
> next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?
>
> /Charlie
> http://www.carehart.org/blog/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
> To: discussion@acfug.org
> Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?
>
> Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
> about DB design.
> Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?
>
> I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,
> foreign
> keys, scripts, etc.
>
> I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command
> line
> notes.
> I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
> But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
> changes
> to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do
> in
> designing our Corporate Intranet.
>
> Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert P. Reil
> Managing Director,
> Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.
> 4292 Country Garden Walk NW
> Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> Office 770-974-8851
> Fax 770-974-8852
> www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> 
http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @
> http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
> 
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>


--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org





--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org



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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Charlie Arehart]

Yes, the primer to get is Ben's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10 minutes". Can't
say enough good words about it (indeed, no more than my review I did back in
2000 which is still the "spotlight" review at Amazon), and it's a very slim
book at just about $10. It's now in its 3rd edition, but even the first
would be fine (you can get all of them used, though I wouldn't give mine up.
It's worth rereading every once in a while until you know you know
everything in it.)

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:27 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

No, its not a primer at all.  Get comfortable with SQL.  Then get guru
status by reading and understanding Celko's book.  Its not for the faint of
heart.

-dhs



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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Robert Reil]

Wouldnt that be more command line though? I hate command line. 
I feel Navicat and for that matter MySQL Admin's GUI is consice enough to
not have to learn the MySQL command line.
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com   

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:18 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?


MySQL Crash Course (Sams Teach Yourself in 10 Minutes) by Ben Forta
 
On 1/12/07, Precia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  >
wrote: 

Absolutely! 



On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]   <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   > wrote: 


Database Design For Mere Mortals 


Shawn Gorrell
Web Development Applications Architect
Federal Reserve Bank - Atlanta
Office (404)  498-8449 



Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   


01/12/2007 09:45 AM 


Please respond to
discussion@acfug.org  



To
discussion@acfug.org   

cc

Subject
[ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations? 







Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB? 

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign 
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!). 
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what changes 
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie? 

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com  , Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW 
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com  


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Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org   
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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Robert Reil]

I was thinking of having that for pocket refference anyhow. Heck for $10
it's a no brainer. 


Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com 

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:41 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Yes, the primer to get is Ben's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10 minutes". Can't
say enough good words about it (indeed, no more than my review I did back in
2000 which is still the "spotlight" review at Amazon), and it's a very slim
book at just about $10. It's now in its 3rd edition, but even the first
would be fine (you can get all of them used, though I wouldn't give mine up.
It's worth rereading every once in a while until you know you know
everything in it.)

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:27 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

No, its not a primer at all.  Get comfortable with SQL.  Then get guru
status by reading and understanding Celko's book.  Its not for the faint of
heart.

-dhs



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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Robert Reil]

What is this a bunch of PDF's?
 
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com   

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:34 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?


By the way, the "..Mere Mortals" book is in their library.
 
Teddy

 
On 1/12/07, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books out
at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.
 
www.safaribooksonline.com  
 
The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
certain chapters of certain books.

 
Teddy
 

On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals book.
As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one. 

I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post the
books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of bringing
desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to track 
it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.

That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the 
next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org   
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB? 

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!). 
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie? 

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com  , Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW 
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com  


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 Archive @
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-- 
 
Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org   




-- 

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Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org   
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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Teddy Payne]

Robert,
You cannot avoid command line over time.  Most GUI tools for MySQL are just
tools that execute command line actions.

You will find in time that command line will be faster than UI as UI will
still ahve to render and you will click 10 times for something you could
have typed in less time.

As for Safari Books, read their website.

Teddy


On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 What is this a bunch of PDF's?



Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com


 --
*From:* Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2007 10:34 AM
*To:* Carbs Sales&Service
*Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?


 By the way, the "..Mere Mortals" book is in their library.

Teddy


On 1/12/07, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books
> out at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.
>
> www.safaribooksonline.com
>
> The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
> using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
> certain chapters of certain books.
>
> Teddy
>
>  On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> > Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals
> > book.
> > As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.
> >
> > I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people
> > post the
> > books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of
> > bringing
> > desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to
> > track
> > it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I
> > have
> > renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.
> >
> > That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at
> > the
> > next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?
> >
> > /Charlie
> > http://www.carehart.org/blog/
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
> > Reil
> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
> > To: discussion@acfug.org
> > Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?
> >
> > Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand
> > things
> > about DB design.
> > Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?
> >
> > I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,
> > foreign
> > keys, scripts, etc.
> >
> > I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command
> > line
> > notes.
> > I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN
> > MASON!!).
> > But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
> > changes
> > to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do
> > in
> > designing our Corporate Intranet.
> >
> > Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Robert P. Reil
> > Managing Director,
> > Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.
> > 4292 Country Garden Walk NW
> > Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> > Office 770-974-8851
> > Fax 770-974-8852
> > www.motorcyclecarbs.com
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> > 
http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
> >
> > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> > List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
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> > 
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> 
> Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
> Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
>



--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
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[ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Robert Reil]

Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate
to the click.
 
I am a business man working IN a business trying to find what precious
little time I can to work ON the business, so that one day the BUSINESS can
run the business.
 
In my case I have to realize I do not want to become a professional
programmer but gather enough skills to build tools that will generate income
or save expences so that I can afford a professional programmer to do such
work and that by that time I will be able to inteligently and effectively
communicate with said programmer as to what we need to make the business run
better.
 
If you feel I am missing the mark please, please do advise. You guys know
this stuff and the dynamics of corporations more than I.
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com   

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:01 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?


Robert,
You cannot avoid command line over time.  Most GUI tools for MySQL are just
tools that execute command line actions.
 
You will find in time that command line will be faster than UI as UI will
still ahve to render and you will click 10 times for something you could
have typed in less time.
 
As for Safari Books, read their website.
 
Teddy

 
On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

What is this a bunch of PDF's?

 
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com  , Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com    

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:34 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

 

By the way, the "..Mere Mortals" book is in their library.
 
Teddy

 
On 1/12/07, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 


I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books out
at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.
 
www.safaribooksonline.com  
 
The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
certain chapters of certain books.

 
Teddy
 

On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals book.
As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one. 

I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post the
books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of bringing
desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to track 
it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.

That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the 
next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?

/Charlie
http://www.carehart.org/blog/   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org   

Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
about DB design.
Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB? 

I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes, foreign
keys, scripts, etc.

I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command line
notes.
I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!). 
But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what changes
to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do in
designing our Corporate Intranet.

Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie? 

Thanks in advance.

Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com  , Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW 
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com  


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Douglas Knudsen]

I get access to safari books via netG from my employeer.  It really RawkS!

Robert, safarionline books are in html format, they don't want you to go and
print them yourself, eh?


DK

On 1/12/07, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I recommend Safari Books Online.  For $19/mon you can check out 10 books
out at a time.  For $40/mon, you get unlimited access.

www.safaribooksonline.com

The books are virtual and you read them online.  I have several friends
using it and it saves them a lot of money when they jsut want to read
certain chapters of certain books.

Teddy

On 1/12/07, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Robert, I'll echo Shawn and the other's sentiments on the Mere Mortals
> book.
> As for "the ACFUG library", there is no real one.
>
> I will say I've been meaning to create a virtual one (where people post
> the
> books they have and members can borrow from each other by way of
> bringing
> desired or returned books to the meeting, with email notifications to
> track
> it all and using the Amazon web service to ease data entry), and I have
> renewed interest in that for other reasons, so look for that soon.
>
> That said, does anyone have a copy of that book to lend to Robert at the
>
> next meeting (or the Flex meeting on Wed, if you both would be going)?
>
> /Charlie
> http://www.carehart.org/blog/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:46 AM
> To: discussion@acfug.org
> Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?
>
> Starting to get into CF I now am aware that I need to understand things
> about DB design.
> Can anyone recommend a good book on how to design a DB?
>
> I am learning things about autoincrementing, indexing, datatypes,
> foreign
> keys, scripts, etc.
>
> I am running MySQL but realize that a MySQL book will give me command
> line
> notes.
> I edit MySQL using Navicat (A WONDERFUL PROGRAM!! THANKS JOHN MASON!!).
> But I realize my weaness is not in how to make DB changes, but what
> changes
> to make in setting up a DB in order to have CF do what I want it to do
> in
> designing our Corporate Intranet.
>
> Maybe the ACFUG library has something in it I can borrow? Charlie?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert P. Reil
> Managing Director,
> Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
> 4292 Country Garden Walk NW
> Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
> Office 770-974-8851
> Fax 770-974-8852
> www.motorcyclecarbs.com
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @
> http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
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>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
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> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
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>
>
>
>


--

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Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
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--
Douglas Knudsen
http://www.cubicleman.com
this is my signature, like it?



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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Howard Fore]

So true. Celko's books (and columns available online, do some
Googling) are great, but they're not for beginners.

On 1/12/07, Dean H. Saxe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

No, its not a primer at all.  Get comfortable with SQL.  Then get
guru status by reading and understanding Celko's book.  Its not for
the faint of heart.



--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Teddy Payne]

Robert,
If your goal is to be purely a business man, you will eventually seperate
yourself from the technology and have a person or team handle this for you.


As you are in the initial phases of this endeavor, you need to evaluate the
time it takes to grow the business with technology versus the cost of the
technology.  If you spend 10 hrs per week for 10 weeks to get one
technological deliverable, you will have have to wait for 10 weeks for
growth.

The real ability to grow is when you have your development working in
paralell to the business goals.  When the two coincide is when spurts of
growth or growth oppurtunity occur.

In your recent past and difficulty with your shopping cart choice, shrink
wrapped solutions tend to be inflexible as they try and cater to a broad
range of customers.  There is no one product on the market for any one given
requirement.

Developers typically merge multiple solutions together to custom fit their
clients.

Eventually, you will have to work up towards having your own customized tool
for managing your business.

If you are the one to push technology, do you have anyone to help alleviate
with business?

If you are doing both, there is not much you can do until you have a way to
delegate responsibilities based upon time versus growth.

Corporate level developers are typically hoarded in their scope.  A manager
will buffer as much as he/she can to avoid the developer from not focusing
on his/her forte.  This is typically not possible in small to medium
business.

If your goal is to read the entire WACK, then that is your goal.  Most CF
developers do not read the WACK cover to cover.  I see most of them tend to
reference when they are trying to do something.  We keep books, PDFs, blogs
and technical websites as our many sources of ways to search how to do this
widget and that widget.  Over time, we reference less commont tasks.

This is what I was referring to command line.

If you do hire a full time developer, who will check his/her work?  You will
have to know enough to ensure that your requirements are met.

Non-technical managers are a day to day challenge for developers.  This is
actually a trend that is slowing down.  I have read reports that companies
are expecting more of their C-level executives when it comes to technology.
If he cannot read his email, how can he be in touch with his/her business?

This is a lot to digest, but keep in mind that I have only covered an
inkling over many topics.  Most of the topics are also subjective, so you
will have lots of different styles of management and experiences.  You will
need to choose what is the right choie for you.

Teddy

On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate
to the click.

I am a business man working IN a business trying to find what precious
little time I can to work ON the business, so that one day the BUSINESS can
run the business.

In my case I have to realize I do not want to become a professional
programmer but gather enough skills to build tools that will generate income
or save expences so that I can afford a professional programmer to do such
work and that by that time I will be able to inteligently and effectively
communicate with said programmer as to what we need to make the business run
better.

If you feel I am missing the mark please, please do advise. You guys know
this stuff and the dynamics of corporations more than I.







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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] DB Design Book Reccomendations?

[Teddy Payne]

Celko has a google group.  His hierarchy entity structure is a godsend for
reporting structures.

The SQL to create one of these lists is definitely not for the faint of
heart.

Teddy


On 1/12/07, Howard Fore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So true. Celko's books (and columns available online, do some
Googling) are great, but they're not for beginners.

On 1/12/07, Dean H. Saxe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, its not a primer at all.  Get comfortable with SQL.  Then get
> guru status by reading and understanding Celko's book.  Its not for
> the faint of heart.


--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org



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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Howard Fore]

In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the
tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing.
For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would
have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly
in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play
trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and
hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's
experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create
Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting
things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line,
then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that
creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI.

Howard

On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate
to the click.


--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Teddy Payne]

Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the analagous
"she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and gender
aganostic.

Apologies in advance,
Teddy


On 1/12/07, Howard Fore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the
tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing.
For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would
have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly
in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play
trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and
hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's
experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create
Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting
things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line,
then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that
creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI.

Howard

On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
> another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just
navigate
> to the click.

--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
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--

Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org



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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Robert Reil]

Great Words Teddy!!!  I will have to digest that for a while I do see
that the quality between whats in my mind and what the developer eventually
ends up with may be a big gray area that will have to be over come. But for
now I am still learning how to communicate this. I realize that I need
better flow charting skills and be able to delve into psudo code to help
communicate.
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com   

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:28 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs
money.


Robert,
If your goal is to be purely a business man, you will eventually seperate
yourself from the technology and have a person or team handle this for you.

 
As you are in the initial phases of this endeavor, you need to evaluate the
time it takes to grow the business with technology versus the cost of the
technology.  If you spend 10 hrs per week for 10 weeks to get one
technological deliverable, you will have have to wait for 10 weeks for
growth.  
 
The real ability to grow is when you have your development working in
paralell to the business goals.  When the two coincide is when spurts of
growth or growth oppurtunity occur.
 
In your recent past and difficulty with your shopping cart choice, shrink
wrapped solutions tend to be inflexible as they try and cater to a broad
range of customers.  There is no one product on the market for any one given
requirement. 
 
Developers typically merge multiple solutions together to custom fit their
clients.  
 
Eventually, you will have to work up towards having your own customized tool
for managing your business.
 
If you are the one to push technology, do you have anyone to help alleviate
with business?  
 
If you are doing both, there is not much you can do until you have a way to
delegate responsibilities based upon time versus growth.
 
Corporate level developers are typically hoarded in their scope.  A manager
will buffer as much as he/she can to avoid the developer from not focusing
on his/her forte.  This is typically not possible in small to medium
business.  
 
If your goal is to read the entire WACK, then that is your goal.  Most CF
developers do not read the WACK cover to cover.  I see most of them tend to
reference when they are trying to do something.  We keep books, PDFs, blogs
and technical websites as our many sources of ways to search how to do this
widget and that widget.  Over time, we reference less commont tasks. 
 
This is what I was referring to command line.  
 
If you do hire a full time developer, who will check his/her work?  You will
have to know enough to ensure that your requirements are met.
 
Non-technical managers are a day to day challenge for developers.  This is
actually a trend that is slowing down.  I have read reports that companies
are expecting more of their C-level executives when it comes to technology.
If he cannot read his email, how can he be in touch with his/her business?  
 
This is a lot to digest, but keep in mind that I have only covered an
inkling over many topics.  Most of the topics are also subjective, so you
will have lots of different styles of management and experiences.  You will
need to choose what is the right choie for you. 
 
Teddy
 
On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate
to the click. 
 
I am a business man working IN a business trying to find what precious
little time I can to work ON the business, so that one day the BUSINESS can
run the business. 
 
In my case I have to realize I do not want to become a professional
programmer but gather enough skills to build tools that will generate income
or save expences so that I can afford a professional programmer to do such
work and that by that time I will be able to inteligently and effectively
communicate with said programmer as to what we need to make the business run
better. 
 
If you feel I am missing the mark please, please do advise. You guys know
this stuff and the dynamics of corporations more than I. 
 
 


- 
To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ 
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Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
  
List hosted by FusionLink   
- 

RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Robert Reil]

Good point Howard. 


 
"TAKE A DEEP BREATH cfnoob"



Robert P. Reil
Managing Director,
Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.
4292 Country Garden Walk NW
Kennesaw, Ga. 30152
Office 770-974-8851
Fax 770-974-8852
www.motorcyclecarbs.com 

-Original Message-
From: Howard Fore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:34 AM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs
money.

In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the tool
to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing.
For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would have
called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly in the
command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play trade-off between
vomiting all the possible options on the user and hiding/showing them to the
user based on some idea of the user's experience level. So if you just click
the button that says "Create Table", unless there's some verbosity to the
GUI, you may be setting things that you may not want. I tend to start with
the command line, then play around with various GUI tools until I find one
that creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI.

Howard

On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn 
> another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just 
> navigate to the click.

--
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby sabba
/ Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba naba /
Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Gerrey . Mary-Catherine]

I think by now, most of us gals have figured that one out.  Unless you are some traditional guy that expects dinner on the table when he gets home; which I don't think applies to you.  :) mcg[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -To: discussion@acfug.orgFrom: Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: 01/12/2007 11:38AMSubject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the analagous "she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and gender aganostic.  Apologies in advance, Teddy    On 1/12/07, Howard Fore < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing. For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line, then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI. Howard On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn > another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate > to the click. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - --  Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - 

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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Teddy Payne]

Flattery gets you everywhere.  Brownie points to the red head ;)

Teddy


On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I think by now, most of us gals have figured that one out.  Unless you are
some traditional guy that expects dinner on the table when he gets home;
which I don't think applies to you.  :)

mcg



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -

To: discussion@acfug.org
From: Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 01/12/2007 11:38AM
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs
money.

Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the
analagous "she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and
gender aganostic.

Apologies in advance,
Teddy


 On 1/12/07, Howard Fore < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the
> tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing.
> For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would
> have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly
> in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play
> trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and
> hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's
> experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create
> Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting
> things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line,
> then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that
> creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI.
>
> Howard
>
> On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn
>
> > another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just
> navigate
> > to the click.
>
> --
> Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
> sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
> naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
> 
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> -
>
>
>
>


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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Robert Reil]

LOL. Go teddy, go teddy, go teddy
Come on guys cheer him on!
 

Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com   

 

  _  

From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:00 PM
To: Carbs Sales&Service
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs
money.


Flattery gets you everywhere.  Brownie points to the red head ;)

Teddy

 
On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  <

[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


I think by now, most of us gals have figured that one out.  Unless you are
some traditional guy that expects dinner on the table when he gets home;
which I don't think applies to you.  :)
 
mcg


 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote: -



To: discussion@acfug.org  
From: Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  >
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Date: 01/12/2007 11:38AM
Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs
money.


Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the analagous
"she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and gender
aganostic. 
 
Apologies in advance, 
Teddy  

  

On 1/12/07, Howard Fore < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 

In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the 
tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing. 
For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would 
have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly 
in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play 
trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and 
hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's 
experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create 
Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting 
things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line, 
then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that 
creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI. 

Howard 

On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote: 
> 
> 
> Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn 
> another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate

> to the click. 

-- 
Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
"Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby 
sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba 
naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine 


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Teddy Payne]

*chuckle* Thanks Robert.  If there is a need to continue this, we can move
it over to the community list to spare folks the banter of me trying to be
self effacing.

Teddy


On 1/12/07, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 LOL. Go teddy, go teddy, go teddy
Come on guys cheer him on!


Robert P. Reil

Managing Director,

Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc.

4292 Country Garden Walk NW

Kennesaw, Ga. 30152

Office 770-974-8851

Fax 770-974-8852

www.motorcyclecarbs.com


 --
*From:* Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2007 2:00 PM
*To:* Carbs Sales&Service
*Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time
vs money.


 Flattery gets you everywhere.  Brownie points to the red head ;)

Teddy


On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I think by now, most of us gals have figured that one out.  Unless you
> are some traditional guy that expects dinner on the table when he gets home;
> which I don't think applies to you.  :)
>
> mcg
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -
>
> To: discussion@acfug.org
> From: Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 01/12/2007 11:38AM
> Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time
> vs money.
>
> Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the
> analagous "she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and
> gender aganostic.
>
> Apologies in advance,
> Teddy
>
>
>  On 1/12/07, Howard Fore < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> > In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the
> > tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing.
> >
> > For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would
> > have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly
> >
> > in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play
> > trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and
> > hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's
> > experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create
> > Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting
> > things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line,
> > then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that
> > creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI.
> >
> > Howard
> >
> > On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to
> > learn
> > > another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just
> > navigate
> > > to the click.
> >
> > --
> > Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby
> >
> > sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba
> >
> > naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
> > 
> >
> > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> > List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> 
> Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
> Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
> 
>
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> List hosted by FusionLink 
> -
>
>
>
> -
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> 
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> List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
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>



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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.

[Gerrey . Mary-Catherine]

Oh it's Friday[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -To: discussion@acfug.orgFrom: Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: 01/12/2007 02:13PMSubject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.*chuckle* Thanks Robert.  If there is a need to continue this, we can move it over to the community list to spare folks the banter of me trying to be self effacing.  Teddy   On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: LOL. Go teddy, go teddy, go teddy Come on guys cheer him on!  Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com , Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com    From: Teddy Payne [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:00 PM To: Carbs Sales&Service Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money.    Flattery gets you everywhere.  Brownie points to the red head ;) Teddy   On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: I think by now, most of us gals have figured that one out.  Unless you are some traditional guy that expects dinner on the table when he gets home; which I don't think applies to you.  :)  mcg   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - To: discussion@acfug.org From: Teddy Payne < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 01/12/2007 11:38AM Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning curve vs best allocation of time vs money. Caveat: If I refer to anything as "he" or "him" without having the analagous "she" or "her,"  most of generalities are meant to be unisex and gender aganostic.  Apologies in advance, Teddy    On 1/12/07, Howard Fore < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: In my book, it's a tradeoff between knowing exactly what you told the tool to do on a command-line versus assuming what a GUI tool is doing. For instance MYSQL has the ability to set a collation (what I would have called a character set) on each table. You can do that explicitly in the command-line. But the designer of the GUI tool has to play trade-off between vomiting all the possible options on the user and hiding/showing them to the user based on some idea of the user's experience level. So if you just click the button that says "Create Table", unless there's some verbosity to the GUI, you may be setting things that you may not want. I tend to start with the command line, then play around with various GUI tools until I find one that creates/manipulates the way I want it too, then just use the GUI. Howard On 1/12/07, Robert Reil < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > Granted... But what about the fact that it takes lots of time to learn > another way to do the same thing versus the time it takes to just navigate > to the click. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Gliddy glub gloopy / Nibby nabby noopy / La la la lo lo / Sabba sibby sabba / Nooby abba nabba / Le le lo lo / Tooby ooby walla / Nooby abba naba / Early morning singing song" - Good Morning Starshine - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - --  Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -   - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?falogin.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - --  Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - --  Adobe Certified ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Atlanta CFUG (ACFUG): http://www.acfug.org - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/