RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

[Charlie Arehart]

Well, I don't use ColdBox myself, so I can't answer your question about
whether CB expects one to use an ORM. Maybe someone else can chime here, or
again the CB list/forum would be a great place to ask. I just wanted to
clarify that one point about it not needing transfer or coldpsring to do
development. I just had not heard that, in the mild exploration I've done of
CB.

 

Good to hear of your enjoyment of CFWheels.  I'll look forward to what you
share about that transition.

 

/charlie

 

From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:15 PM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

 

Thanks Charlie for the clarifications!

 

I'm sure that I don't have the perspective to do a rigorous evaluation of
ColdBox or any framework for that matter. I did see some samples that
assumed Coldspring and Transfer. And, I don't understand how else you would
manage dependencies and ORM within ColdBox. 

 

I know that technically, you don't need to use ORM/database as part of a
framework, but all the apps I'm interested in would need that ability. So,
if there's some built-in ORM in ColdBox, please let me know.

 

To me, CFWheels just made more sense. It let me focus on learning MVC and it
handles all the ORM & dependency stuff for me. And, I got a lot out of that
Head First Rails book, too. There are a lot of Rails apps to use as
examples, and I'm currently trying to port some over to CFML.

 

I'm still very impressed with ColdBox. It seems very complete, and I think
it's a lot more powerful than CFWheels and maybe any of the other
frameworks, too. It's just that it seemed too much for where I am on my
learning curve. If I decide to move on from CFWheels, ColdBox would by my
first choice alternative!

 

   Clarke

 

p.s. I haven't been blogging much on my Resultant website, but I have been
blogging on other topics! The 2003 posts were originally articles on my old
website. I've been interested in Rich Internet Apps and web technology for a
long time. I originally wrote that web app article for some people at
BellSouth. In the old days, my development team used CF 1.5 for a prototype
back in 1996, and we used jrun for a while, too!




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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

[Clarke Bishop]

Thanks Charlie for the clarifications!

 

I'm sure that I don't have the perspective to do a rigorous evaluation of
ColdBox or any framework for that matter. I did see some samples that
assumed Coldspring and Transfer. And, I don't understand how else you would
manage dependencies and ORM within ColdBox. 

 

I know that technically, you don't need to use ORM/database as part of a
framework, but all the apps I'm interested in would need that ability. So,
if there's some built-in ORM in ColdBox, please let me know.

 

To me, CFWheels just made more sense. It let me focus on learning MVC and it
handles all the ORM & dependency stuff for me. And, I got a lot out of that
Head First Rails book, too. There are a lot of Rails apps to use as
examples, and I'm currently trying to port some over to CFML.

 

I'm still very impressed with ColdBox. It seems very complete, and I think
it's a lot more powerful than CFWheels and maybe any of the other
frameworks, too. It's just that it seemed too much for where I am on my
learning curve. If I decide to move on from CFWheels, ColdBox would by my
first choice alternative!

 

   Clarke

 

p.s. I haven't been blogging much on my Resultant website, but I have been
blogging on other topics! The 2003 posts were originally articles on my old
website. I've been interested in Rich Internet Apps and web technology for a
long time. I originally wrote that web app article for some people at
BellSouth. In the old days, my development team used CF 1.5 for a prototype
back in 1996, and we used jrun for a while, too!

 

From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Arehart
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:53 PM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

 

Hey Clarke, I caught your comment here, that 

 

> I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
you 

> end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.

 

I thought that odd. I'd not heard it to be the case, so I ran it by Luis
(Majano, who created and leads the framework effort). He said, "Coldbox
doesn't require any frameworks." He really wondered how you may have come to
that conclusion, and how far you had explored things before concluding it.
Was it maybe some samples they showed that led you to conclude that?  He
said, "The simple mvc apps are all conventions and the guides are also
straightforward."

 

To be clear, I'm not knocking CFWheels at all, nor your choice should you
choose to stay with it.  But should you want to explore things further, he
noted that the google group or forums would be a welcome place to discuss it
so everyone there could chime in:

 

http://groups.google.com/group/coldbox

http://ortus.svnrepository.com/coldbox

 

But I appreciate that you may not care to bother logging in and sharing the
thoughts if you've simply moved on. If you have any thought you might like
me to pass back to him, I certainly could.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

BTW, great to see you starting to blog. Thanks for doing that. I was a
little confused when the first item in your "recent posts" list was "what is
a  web application server", and it talked about "cold fusion". Then I
noticed it was from 2003, and that your archives lists had nothing since
then, too. Man,  quite a gap. Welcome back from the blogging deadzone. :-)

 

/charlie

 

From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:07 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

 

I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
you end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.

 

So, I switched to CFWheels (http://cfwheels.org/ ). Wheels is a ColdFusion
framework based on Ruby on Rails.

 

Just like Rails, the CFWheels framework use an active record approach, so
there's no need for Transfer or Reactor. And, the object dependencies are
also managed by the framework, so you don't need Coldspring.

 

There's still a lot to learn because you have to learn to think the way the
framework expects. And, you have to learn the conventions for how things
should be named, etc.

 

I found a great book that helped me adjust my thinking - Head First Rails.
But, it's Ruby/Rails, of course. I've found that the ideas translate fairly
easily to CFWheels, and I've started converting the apps in the book to
CFWheels. To help me learn it more deeply, I decided to blog about the
process, so i

RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

[Charlie Arehart]

Hey Clarke, I caught your comment here, that 

 

> I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
you 

> end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.

 

I thought that odd. I'd not heard it to be the case, so I ran it by Luis
(Majano, who created and leads the framework effort). He said, "Coldbox
doesn't require any frameworks." He really wondered how you may have come to
that conclusion, and how far you had explored things before concluding it.
Was it maybe some samples they showed that led you to conclude that?  He
said, "The simple mvc apps are all conventions and the guides are also
straightforward."

 

To be clear, I'm not knocking CFWheels at all, nor your choice should you
choose to stay with it.  But should you want to explore things further, he
noted that the google group or forums would be a welcome place to discuss it
so everyone there could chime in:

 

http://groups.google.com/group/coldbox

http://ortus.svnrepository.com/coldbox

 

But I appreciate that you may not care to bother logging in and sharing the
thoughts if you've simply moved on. If you have any thought you might like
me to pass back to him, I certainly could.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

BTW, great to see you starting to blog. Thanks for doing that. I was a
little confused when the first item in your "recent posts" list was "what is
a  web application server", and it talked about "cold fusion". Then I
noticed it was from 2003, and that your archives lists had nothing since
then, too. Man,  quite a gap. Welcome back from the blogging deadzone. :-)

 

/charlie

 

From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:07 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

 

I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
you end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.

 

So, I switched to CFWheels (http://cfwheels.org/ ). Wheels is a ColdFusion
framework based on Ruby on Rails.

 

Just like Rails, the CFWheels framework use an active record approach, so
there's no need for Transfer or Reactor. And, the object dependencies are
also managed by the framework, so you don't need Coldspring.

 

There's still a lot to learn because you have to learn to think the way the
framework expects. And, you have to learn the conventions for how things
should be named, etc.

 

I found a great book that helped me adjust my thinking - Head First Rails.
But, it's Ruby/Rails, of course. I've found that the ideas translate fairly
easily to CFWheels, and I've started converting the apps in the book to
CFWheels. To help me learn it more deeply, I decided to blog about the
process, so if you want, take a look at:

http://www.resultantsys.com/index.php/coldfusion/cfwheels-scaffolding-basics
/ 

 

Thanks again for all the ideas and support I got from you guys. I'll keep
you posted on my progress!

 

   Clarke


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RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

[Clarke Bishop]

For those of you who are interested in how I'm learning CFWheels, I've added
a jump page to organize my blog posts.

http://www.resultantsys.com/index.php/cfwheels 

 

Please let me know what you think!

 

   Clarke

 

From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Clarke Bishop
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:07 AM
To: discussion@acfug.org
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

 

I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
you end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.

 

So, I switched to CFWheels (http://cfwheels.org/ ). Wheels is a ColdFusion
framework based on Ruby on Rails.

 

Just like Rails, the CFWheels framework use an active record approach, so
there's no need for Transfer or Reactor. And, the object dependencies are
also managed by the framework, so you don't need Coldspring.

 

There's still a lot to learn because you have to learn to think the way the
framework expects. And, you have to learn the conventions for how things
should be named, etc.

 

I found a great book that helped me adjust my thinking - Head First Rails.
But, it's Ruby/Rails, of course. I've found that the ideas translate fairly
easily to CFWheels, and I've started converting the apps in the book to
CFWheels. To help me learn it more deeply, I decided to blog about the
process, so if you want, take a look at:

http://www.resultantsys.com/index.php/coldfusion/cfwheels-scaffolding-basics
/ 

 

Thanks again for all the ideas and support I got from you guys. I'll keep
you posted on my progress!

 

   Clarke


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Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework: Update

[Teddy R. Payne]

Clarke,
I used to be on the mailing list for CF Wheels in earlier versions.  It has
a solid approach.

Now, one of your statements about your selection of a framework mentions
that Transfer or Reactor was a learning curve point.  My warning to you is
that in the built in model syntax of CF Wheels, that you are trading perhaps
one syntax for another.  I will conceded that both Reactor and Transfer are
quite more robust in features and nuance, but there is still an object
hierarchy that can resemble other ORM approaches.

There is an appeal to using a file system based framework to determine
dependencies on your view and controller.

Also, there is a lexicon of functions in CF Wheels you will need to get
familiar with.  Some of these are to create code for you.  They are handy to
use, but I would learn what code is generated upon using these functions.
Once you understand what these functions are doing, you may want to move
away from some of them as you will probably need to code more strictly or
have requirements that the generic functions do not handle.


Teddy R. Payne, ACCFD
Google Talk - teddyrpa...@gmail.com



On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Clarke Bishop wrote:

>  I was originally going to start with ColdBox to learn a ColdFusion
> framework. But, I quickly got lost in the complexity. To really use ColdBox,
> you end up needing to know Coldspring and Transfer. But, since each of those
> has a learning curve, it really makes things hard.
>
>
>
> So, I switched to CFWheels (http://cfwheels.org/ ). Wheels is a ColdFusion
> framework based on Ruby on Rails.
>
>
>
> Just like Rails, the CFWheels framework use an active record approach, so
> there’s no need for Transfer or Reactor. And, the object dependencies are
> also managed by the framework, so you don’t need Coldspring.
>
>
>
> There’s still a lot to learn because you have to learn to think the way the
> framework expects. And, you have to learn the conventions for how things
> should be named, etc.
>
>
>
> I found a great book that helped me adjust my thinking – Head First Rails.
> But, it’s Ruby/Rails, of course. I’ve found that the ideas translate fairly
> easily to CFWheels, and I’ve started converting the apps in the book to
> CFWheels. To help me learn it more deeply, I decided to blog about the
> process, so if you want, take a look at:
>
>
> http://www.resultantsys.com/index.php/coldfusion/cfwheels-scaffolding-basics/
>
>
>
> Thanks again for all the ideas and support I got from you guys. I’ll keep
> you posted on my progress!
>
>
>
>Clarke
>
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> To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @
> http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform
>
> For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists
> Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/
> List hosted by FusionLink 
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