Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Perhaps it would be worth breaking the environment markers out as their own > PEP? As I said back then, I think *everything* in PEP 426 is worth breaking out into its own PEP. ;-) Less jokingly, I think that the scope of PEP 426 includes many things that have different (if overlapping) audiences, and splitting it into smaller pieces will help those audiences concentrate on the bits relevant to them. The audience for markers is a subset of the audience for requirement specs, which is a subset of the audience for version syntax. Lots of other subtopics are of interest mainly to build tool and distro makers, so there's little point in making everybody read everything. (Also, a lot of these smaller things are (hopefully) easier to reach consensus on, at which point the PEPs are settled and allow moving discussion on to the more open issues.) So, yes, good idea to break out environment markers. ;-) ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 20 Nov 2013 03:33, "PJ Eby" wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 19 November 2013 15:09, PJ Eby wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >>> More accurately, it appears setuptools *does* support PEP 345 style > >>> environment markers, it just isn't documented at > >>> http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-dependencies > >>> *sigh* > >> > >> That's because it's technically an experimental feature I hacked into > >> 0.6c12 development shortly before the distribute merge in order to > >> handle setuptools' own requirements for SSL, so that setuptools could > >> ship just one platform-independent egg and still have > >> platform-specific dependencies. ;-) > >> > >> I think Jason et al may have since upgraded it to a supported feature, > >> but last I looked I think there may have still been issues with Jython > >> support for the feature. > >> > >> So, the lack of documentation may still be a feature rather than a bug ATM. ;-) > > > > A fair point :) > > > > Regardless, it highlights the fact I need to ensure PEP 426 preserves > > the legacy spellings for the markers that have dots in their names in > > metadata 1.2 (https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi-metadata-formats/issue/12 ). > > Eh? I implemented PEP 426 (draft-at-the-time) markers in the feature > I mentioned above. > > Hm. Actually, looking over it now, I see the real reason it's > experimental: it was implemented based on consensus-in-progress for > PEP 426, so not a finalized PEP. It also sort-of handles PEP 345. > And the Jython fallback, IIRC, was maybe only doing PEP 345. (And > setuptools itself only needed the Python version and platform name.) > > So it's actually a bit of a mess -- which is why it wasn't documented, > in order to avoid people forcing the new PEP's hand with another de > facto standard. I just figured it would get us most of the way there > and when the PEP dust settled, the tests and code could be tweaked a > bit to match, then documented with reference to the PEP. Ah, that definitely makes sense - and then I went and postponed further work on metadata 2.0 until after the Python 3.4 feature freeze once I realised how far we could get with metadata 1.1 + the setuptools metadata files. So it turns out my *first* answer to the IPython folks was the most accurate: technically, we need PEP 426 finalised before the static metadata can handle their requirements. Perhaps it would be worth breaking the environment markers out as their own PEP? Cheers, Nick. ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 19 November 2013 15:09, PJ Eby wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> More accurately, it appears setuptools *does* support PEP 345 style >>> environment markers, it just isn't documented at >>> http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-dependencies >>> *sigh* >> >> That's because it's technically an experimental feature I hacked into >> 0.6c12 development shortly before the distribute merge in order to >> handle setuptools' own requirements for SSL, so that setuptools could >> ship just one platform-independent egg and still have >> platform-specific dependencies. ;-) >> >> I think Jason et al may have since upgraded it to a supported feature, >> but last I looked I think there may have still been issues with Jython >> support for the feature. >> >> So, the lack of documentation may still be a feature rather than a bug ATM. >> ;-) > > A fair point :) > > Regardless, it highlights the fact I need to ensure PEP 426 preserves > the legacy spellings for the markers that have dots in their names in > metadata 1.2 (https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi-metadata-formats/issue/12). Eh? I implemented PEP 426 (draft-at-the-time) markers in the feature I mentioned above. Hm. Actually, looking over it now, I see the real reason it's experimental: it was implemented based on consensus-in-progress for PEP 426, so not a finalized PEP. It also sort-of handles PEP 345. And the Jython fallback, IIRC, was maybe only doing PEP 345. (And setuptools itself only needed the Python version and platform name.) So it's actually a bit of a mess -- which is why it wasn't documented, in order to avoid people forcing the new PEP's hand with another de facto standard. I just figured it would get us most of the way there and when the PEP dust settled, the tests and code could be tweaked a bit to match, then documented with reference to the PEP. ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 19 November 2013 15:09, PJ Eby wrote: > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> More accurately, it appears setuptools *does* support PEP 345 style >> environment markers, it just isn't documented at >> http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-dependencies >> *sigh* > > That's because it's technically an experimental feature I hacked into > 0.6c12 development shortly before the distribute merge in order to > handle setuptools' own requirements for SSL, so that setuptools could > ship just one platform-independent egg and still have > platform-specific dependencies. ;-) > > I think Jason et al may have since upgraded it to a supported feature, > but last I looked I think there may have still been issues with Jython > support for the feature. > > So, the lack of documentation may still be a feature rather than a bug ATM. > ;-) A fair point :) Regardless, it highlights the fact I need to ensure PEP 426 preserves the legacy spellings for the markers that have dots in their names in metadata 1.2 (https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi-metadata-formats/issue/12). Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > More accurately, it appears setuptools *does* support PEP 345 style > environment markers, it just isn't documented at > http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-dependencies > *sigh* That's because it's technically an experimental feature I hacked into 0.6c12 development shortly before the distribute merge in order to handle setuptools' own requirements for SSL, so that setuptools could ship just one platform-independent egg and still have platform-specific dependencies. ;-) I think Jason et al may have since upgraded it to a supported feature, but last I looked I think there may have still been issues with Jython support for the feature. So, the lack of documentation may still be a feature rather than a bug ATM. ;-) ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 17 November 2013 14:05, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > The specific case affecting IPython was the need to define platform > dependent dependencies. Metadata 2.0 will handle that, but isn't going to be > available until pip 1.6 at the earliest. (That does suggest "Does this let > IPython start publishing wheels?" would make a good acceptance criterion for > PEP 426 et al. It can join the setuptools metadata replacement criteria, the > Linux distro integration criteria and the Twisted plugin model handling > criteria). > > That’s not true, Wheel let’s you use environment markers. > > https://github.com/dstufft/twine/blob/master/setup.cfg#L9-L13 More accurately, it appears setuptools *does* support PEP 345 style environment markers, it just isn't documented at http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-dependencies*sigh* I filed a setuptools issue about the missing docs, but also suggested the IPython folks wait for pip 1.5 to get the install-time script handling and other wheel related fixes. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
Am 16.11.2013 21:15, schrieb Paul Moore: On 16 November 2013 17:59, Thomas Heller wrote: What is the preferred format to distribute Python-3 libraries (for Windows) nowadays: wininst, egg, ...? Wheel is the format of the future. pip install will only use wheels (recent versions of pip) wininst doesn't support virtualenv egg is only supported by easy_install, which is not recommended these days (use pip instead) MSI is rarely used, and can't easily be converted to other formats Personally, I'd recommend wheel and wininst. Ok, I'll probably follow this recommandation (but maybe I'll also include egg). Another question: Is there a way to mark the distribution so that it will work for Python 3.3 and 3.4, but not 2.x, 3.0, 3.1, or 3.2? There are existing installers for 2.x (containing compiled extensions) already registered on pypi. All this is for py2exe. Maybe I should name the python3 version 'py3exe' instead ;-) Thomas ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On Nov 16, 2013, at 8:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 17 Nov 2013 08:07, "Donald Stufft" wrote: > > > > Wheels are way faster for pure python though, so they should totally be > > uploaded :D > > In chatting to someone proposing a patch for IPython to start publishing > wheels, I noted that wheels don't yet work even for distributions with > essential logic in their setup.py file, even if it's a pure Python > distribution. > > The specific case affecting IPython was the need to define platform dependent > dependencies. Metadata 2.0 will handle that, but isn't going to be available > until pip 1.6 at the earliest. (That does suggest "Does this let IPython > start publishing wheels?" would make a good acceptance criterion for PEP 426 > et al. It can join the setuptools metadata replacement criteria, the Linux > distro integration criteria and the Twisted plugin model handling criteria). > That’s not true, Wheel let’s you use environment markers. https://github.com/dstufft/twine/blob/master/setup.cfg#L9-L13 - Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 17 Nov 2013 08:07, "Donald Stufft" wrote: > > Wheels are way faster for pure python though, so they should totally be > uploaded :D In chatting to someone proposing a patch for IPython to start publishing wheels, I noted that wheels don't yet work even for distributions with essential logic in their setup.py file, even if it's a pure Python distribution. The specific case affecting IPython was the need to define platform dependent dependencies. Metadata 2.0 will handle that, but isn't going to be available until pip 1.6 at the earliest. (That does suggest "Does this let IPython start publishing wheels?" would make a good acceptance criterion for PEP 426 et al. It can join the setuptools metadata replacement criteria, the Linux distro integration criteria and the Twisted plugin model handling criteria). Cheers, Nick. > > On Nov 16, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > > > On 16 November 2013 21:59, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> And sdist! > > > > Sorry - I assumed compiled C extensions. You'll always provide sdist, > > and unless you're distributing a compiled extension, that's all you'll > > need. (Wheel distributions even for pure Python is the intention in > > the future, but they aren't needed currently). > > > > Paul > > > - > Donald Stufft > PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA > > > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig > ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
Wheels are way faster for pure python though, so they should totally be uploaded :D On Nov 16, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 16 November 2013 21:59, Donald Stufft wrote: >> And sdist! > > Sorry - I assumed compiled C extensions. You'll always provide sdist, > and unless you're distributing a compiled extension, that's all you'll > need. (Wheel distributions even for pure Python is the intention in > the future, but they aren't needed currently). > > Paul - Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 16 November 2013 21:59, Donald Stufft wrote: > And sdist! Sorry - I assumed compiled C extensions. You'll always provide sdist, and unless you're distributing a compiled extension, that's all you'll need. (Wheel distributions even for pure Python is the intention in the future, but they aren't needed currently). Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
And sdist! On Nov 16, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 16 November 2013 17:59, Thomas Heller wrote: >> What is the preferred format to distribute Python-3 libraries (for Windows) >> nowadays: wininst, egg, ...? > > Wheel is the format of the future. > > pip install will only use wheels (recent versions of pip) > wininst doesn't support virtualenv > egg is only supported by easy_install, which is not recommended these > days (use pip instead) > MSI is rarely used, and can't easily be converted to other formats > > Personally, I'd recommend wheel and wininst. > > Paul > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig - Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
On 16 November 2013 17:59, Thomas Heller wrote: > What is the preferred format to distribute Python-3 libraries (for Windows) > nowadays: wininst, egg, ...? Wheel is the format of the future. pip install will only use wheels (recent versions of pip) wininst doesn't support virtualenv egg is only supported by easy_install, which is not recommended these days (use pip instead) MSI is rarely used, and can't easily be converted to other formats Personally, I'd recommend wheel and wininst. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
Thomas Heller ctypes.org> writes: > > What is the preferred format to distribute Python-3 libraries (for > Windows) nowadays: wininst, egg, ...? > > It has been a long time that I have released something. I don't know about preferred, but for Pillow we create all of them: https://pypi.python.org/pypi?name=Pillow&version=2.2.1&:action=files ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
[Distutils] Distribution format for Python3 libraries
What is the preferred format to distribute Python-3 libraries (for Windows) nowadays: wininst, egg, ...? It has been a long time that I have released something. Thanks, Thomas ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
