Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Ok.

I agree we can set for an increase to 100 characters :)

Cheers

_

Raony Guimarães Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
PhD in Bioinformatics

email: raonyguimar...@gmail.com
skype/hangouts: raonyguimaraes
phone: +48 722 148 478
_

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:31 PM, Aymeric Augustin <
aymeric.augus...@polytechnique.org> wrote:

> > On 10 Aug 2016, at 17:34, Tom Christie  wrote:
> >
> > I'd always defer towards humanized limits, rather than technical limits,
> so I'd suggest 100 chars seems like a decent cap.
>
> Yes.
>
> Repeating my earlier message:
>
> > I’m -1 on basing the decision of “how long a last name does Django allow
> by default” on an unrelated technical limit.
>
>
> A humanised limit is more consistent with how Django handles limits
> historically. It avoids debating MySQL’s limits in various circumstances
> and thinking how the decision might affect databases supported via
> third-party backends.
>
> 100 will do.
>
> --
> Aymeric.
>
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Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Hi, 

Now that this thread went silent for a few days, can we reach a consensus 
and try increase last_name to the maximum size available without breaking 
backward compatibility ? 

Please, lets make Django more available to the rest of the world. This is a 
small change with a huge benefit to users.

Kind Regards


On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 1:15:43 PM UTC+2, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do 
Carmo Lisboa Cardenas wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com 
> using my github account (pydanny/djangopackages#338 
> <https://github.com/pydanny/djangopackages/issues/338>). After 
> investigating I discovered the problem was because my surname is longer 
> than 30 characters. I don't know why both first_name and last_name fields 
> have the same size limit of 30 characters in Django. That doesn't sound 
> very reasonable.
>
> I'm sure there are other people on the same situation and this already 
> happened with me trying to login in other django websites.
>
>
> [image: selection_086] 
> <https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/124987/17208678/f7a40f40-54b9-11e6-8978-7240782707c7.png>
>
>
> Tim Graham suggested I should first ask on this maillist (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/6988#issuecomment-235945422) to see 
> if there is consensus to make the change.
>
> I would like to ask your opinion about an increase from 30 to 60 
> characters on last_name field so that my login and others won't break again 
> in the future. I can create a Trac ticket if the response is positive.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>

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Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Hi Malcolm, 

It seen everyone here agree 30 characters is not enough for last names and 
this should be changed. I also think 255 characters would cause less 
trouble in a sense, cause we wouldn't have to deal with this problem again 
until we decide to go full TextField. which is actually the best decision 
(IMHO). 

Regarding breaking the UI, I prefer a website with a broken UI than a 
website I cannot login (Ex. with my github account) because of my name. 
Lesser of two evils.

So how we could reach a consensus between 60 and 255? 60 will cover my last 
name, but not erik's ... I wish we could solve this for everyone and not 
only for me ... :/

Kind Regards.

On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 1:15:43 PM UTC+2, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do 
Carmo Lisboa Cardenas wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com 
> using my github account (pydanny/djangopackages#338 
> <https://github.com/pydanny/djangopackages/issues/338>). After 
> investigating I discovered the problem was because my surname is longer 
> than 30 characters. I don't know why both first_name and last_name fields 
> have the same size limit of 30 characters in Django. That doesn't sound 
> very reasonable.
>
> I'm sure there are other people on the same situation and this already 
> happened with me trying to login in other django websites.
>
>
> [image: selection_086] 
> <https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/124987/17208678/f7a40f40-54b9-11e6-8978-7240782707c7.png>
>
>
> Tim Graham suggested I should first ask on this maillist (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/6988#issuecomment-235945422) to see 
> if there is consensus to make the change.
>
> I would like to ask your opinion about an increase from 30 to 60 
> characters on last_name field so that my login and others won't break again 
> in the future. I can create a Trac ticket if the response is positive.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>

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Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Dear all,

I kind of agree with Aymeric, increasing last_name to max=60 characters
would already be good enough for this proposal and should cover 99.99% of
users without breaking backward compatibility.

I support your idea of a built-in User model not based on first and last
name. But that sounds too much of a challenge for me at the moment.

I'm also missing some data to back up this claim, but 30-50 characters for
last_names in Brazil sounds about right. I will check some databases I have
access, but my opinion is that this is already going in a good direction!

Thank you all for the support and discussion.

Kind Regards.
_

Raony Guimarães Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas
PhD in Bioinformatics

email: raonyguimar...@gmail.com
skype/hangouts: raonyguimaraes
phone: +48 722 148 478
_

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Aymeric Augustin <
aymeric.augus...@polytechnique.org> wrote:

> Hello James,
>
> > On 01 Aug 2016, at 15:03, James Pic  wrote:
> >
> > Aymeric, it doesn't matter if tens of milions of names fit into your
> > model, it only takes one to have a issue that's going to require the
> > project developers to invest time in it.
>
> I’m not an adept of the “worse is better” school of thought. I believe
> that fixing the problem for 99,% of people while not creating new
> problems for anyone matters.
>
> There will always be cases where django.contrib.auth doesn’t work ideally.
> What matters is the ability to argue that a particular case is enough of an
> edge case not to be worth dealing with, and the person who finds themselves
> in that case to expect and accept that answer. Clearly “name over 30
> characters” isn’t sufficiently rare to meet this criterion. (It was fine
> when it just had to work for LWJ’s staff.)
>
> Some organizations will have a cost/benefit approach to this question.
> Making the problematic cases less frequent reduces the chances that the
> benefit of fixing them justifies the cost. Then developers don’t have to
> invest time in it. Other organizations will reject the notion of cost and
> have a more philosophical approach; that’s harder to discuss in general but
> solving a problem while not introducing any new problems still makes the
> situation better for them. At the very least they get a better base to
> build upon.
>
> Anyone who likes using an absurdly long last name, for whatever reason,
> and enjoys typing it just to get a “name too long” error message on every
> website knows how to fix it: use a subset of their name. They’re already
> doing it whenever they fill a form, whether on paper or on screen. Paper
> forms usually don’t have room for writing names on multiple lines.
>
> Can you just let use improve the situation for tens of millions of
> Brazilian users? It doesn’t cost you, or anyone else, anything. Just let us
> make things better for tens of millions of people and not make them worse
> for anyone.
>
> To be extremely clear, let me repeat once again: I’m not trying to make
> django.contrib.auth to work for everyone, I know that it still won’t work
> for everyone and I accept that my proposal doesn’t attempt to solve the
> problem of names entirely. It has been abundantly explained in this thread
> why it’s impossible to do something that works for everyone anyway. If we
> wanted to do something that worked for significantly more people, we’d
> start by dropping the first / last name fields. You’re welcome to make a
> proposal in that direction, but I would kindly ask you to do it a a new
> thread and let us solve that stupid name length problem for tens of
> millions of Brazilian users in this thread.
>
>
> > So I'm a bit lost about what's the most practical approach here.
>
> Per my definition of “practical”, fixing 99,% of a problem with a very
> small effort like I suggested is a practical approach.
>
>
> --
> Aymeric
>
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Re: Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Hello all, here are my thoughts after reading the discussion.

@Erik You won on having the biggest name! Regarding your question about 
"how long is long enough", after checking other web frameworks such as 
rails 
(http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3354330/difference-between-string-and-text-in-rails),
 
I believe the most sensible proposal would be to increase from 30 to 255, 
which is the maximum value permitted for a varchar without changing any 
field in User model.

@Aymeric Agree with you that now with the migrations framework this would 
not be a big issue. Regarding the UI, I argue that this is something we 
already have to deal with, for example, if someone uses all 60 characters 
for first_name and last_name (Ex. "Bommiraju Sitaramanjaneyulu Rajasekhara 
Srinivasulu L S V Sai")  this will probably already break the UI in most 
cases. We can always use {{ last_name|truncatechars:30 }} to fix the UI. I 
mostly believe we should delegate this to the developers of each app and 
not to the users (Ex. that have big surnames).

@Ludovic, is_null and Josh Thank you for the link and suggestions. I agree 
that "Full name" seems to be the most reasonable choice here, but I don't 
want break backwards compatibility, or at least not on this proposal. :)

So I'm suggesting a change from 30 to 255 characters on last_name field, 
which is the maximum possible without breaking backwards compatibility. 
Maybe on Django 3 we can propose a change to "Full name" field ?

Kind Regards.

On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 1:15:43 PM UTC+2, Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do 
Carmo Lisboa Cardenas wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com 
> using my github account (pydanny/djangopackages#338 
> <https://github.com/pydanny/djangopackages/issues/338>). After 
> investigating I discovered the problem was because my surname is longer 
> than 30 characters. I don't know why both first_name and last_name fields 
> have the same size limit of 30 characters in Django. That doesn't sound 
> very reasonable.
>
> I'm sure there are other people on the same situation and this already 
> happened with me trying to login in other django websites.
>
>
> [image: selection_086] 
> <https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/124987/17208678/f7a40f40-54b9-11e6-8978-7240782707c7.png>
>
>
> Tim Graham suggested I should first ask on this maillist (
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/6988#issuecomment-235945422) to see 
> if there is consensus to make the change.
>
> I would like to ask your opinion about an increase from 30 to 60 
> characters on last_name field so that my login and others won't break again 
> in the future. I can create a Trac ticket if the response is positive.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>

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Extend support for long surnames in Django Auth

[Raony Guimaraes Corrêa Do Carmo Lisboa Cardenas]

Hello everyone,

For a long time I was having problems to login to djangopackages.com using 
my github account (pydanny/djangopackages#338 
). After 
investigating I discovered the problem was because my surname is longer 
than 30 characters. I don't know why both first_name and last_name fields 
have the same size limit of 30 characters in Django. That doesn't sound 
very reasonable.

I'm sure there are other people on the same situation and this already 
happened with me trying to login in other django websites.


[image: selection_086] 



Tim Graham suggested I should first ask on this maillist 
(https://github.com/django/django/pull/6988#issuecomment-235945422) to see 
if there is consensus to make the change.

I would like to ask your opinion about an increase from 30 to 60 characters 
on last_name field so that my login and others won't break again in the 
future. I can create a Trac ticket if the response is positive.

Kind Regards,

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