Re: Python version roadmap

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:23 AM, James Bennett  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:15 PM, DULMANDAKH Sukhbaatar
>  wrote:
>> Please note that python 2.4 is default in RHEL5.
>
> I'm aware of that, and concerns about RHEL were noted when I
> originally proposed the roadmap. But that's Red Hat's problem; if they
> want to keep shipping ancient versions of Python, their customers
> aren't going to be able to run modern Python applications.

It's also important to note that:

 * Django 1.2 *will* be Python 2.4 compatible, so RHEL5 users will be
able to use every Django 1.2.X release.

 * Python 2.5, 2.6, 3.0 and 3.1 are available for RHEL5, albeit under
different support arrangements. Users bound to RHEL5 that simply must
use Django 1.3+ have the option of installing a different version of
Python.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

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Re: Re: Python version roadmap

[s . kuzmenko]

A word of caution on dropping support of python 2.4: it is still shipped  
with RHEL 5 which is supported until 2014  
(http://www.redhat.com/security/updates/errata/).

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Re: Python version roadmap

[James Bennett]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:15 PM, DULMANDAKH Sukhbaatar
 wrote:
> Please note that python 2.4 is default in RHEL5.

I'm aware of that, and concerns about RHEL were noted when I
originally proposed the roadmap. But that's Red Hat's problem; if they
want to keep shipping ancient versions of Python, their customers
aren't going to be able to run modern Python applications.


-- 
"Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct."

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Re: Python version roadmap

[Alex Gaynor]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:15 PM, DULMANDAKH Sukhbaatar
 wrote:
>> Also, we should be adding any plans to drop 2.4, 2.5 etc into the
>> internals/deprecation.txt documentation, and we ought to do that
>> *before* 1.2 is released, to give as much warning as possible.
>
> Please note that python 2.4 is default in RHEL5.
>
> --
> Regards
> Dulmandakh
> http://www.dulmandakh.com
> http://www.twitter.com/dulmandakh/
>
> --
>
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>
>
>

That's know, but the simple fact remains that that's a really old
version of python (over 5 years), and in the larger view we need to be
moving towards 2.6 and 3.0.  Nobody is required to upgrade.

Alex

-- 
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right to say it." -- Voltaire
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
"Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
want" -- Me

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Re: Python version roadmap

[DULMANDAKH Sukhbaatar]

> Also, we should be adding any plans to drop 2.4, 2.5 etc into the
> internals/deprecation.txt documentation, and we ought to do that
> *before* 1.2 is released, to give as much warning as possible.

Please note that python 2.4 is default in RHEL5.

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Regards
Dulmandakh
http://www.dulmandakh.com
http://www.twitter.com/dulmandakh/

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Re: Python version roadmap

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:36 AM, James Bennett  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Luke Plant  wrote:
>> We need a section in our release notes about dropping support for
>> Python 2.3.  I was trying to write it, and I wanted to say "as
>> announced in such & such a place", but I can't actually find that
>> place. I know the decision was made somehow...
>>
>> Also, we should be adding any plans to drop 2.4, 2.5 etc into the
>> internals/deprecation.txt documentation, and we ought to do that
>> *before* 1.2 is released, to give as much warning as possible.
>
> I can write the docs for this; I'd assumed that the plan of "start by
> dropping 2.3 in 1.2 and then drop one Python version in each release
> after" was what we'd be doing. If I'm wrong on this, someone please
> let me know.

This matches my understanding of the plan. The fact that it hasn't
been formally documented is a serious oversight.

Russ %-)

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Re: Python version roadmap

[James Bennett]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Luke Plant  wrote:
> We need a section in our release notes about dropping support for
> Python 2.3.  I was trying to write it, and I wanted to say "as
> announced in such & such a place", but I can't actually find that
> place. I know the decision was made somehow...
>
> Also, we should be adding any plans to drop 2.4, 2.5 etc into the
> internals/deprecation.txt documentation, and we ought to do that
> *before* 1.2 is released, to give as much warning as possible.

I can write the docs for this; I'd assumed that the plan of "start by
dropping 2.3 in 1.2 and then drop one Python version in each release
after" was what we'd be doing. If I'm wrong on this, someone please
let me know.


-- 
"Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct."

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Python version roadmap

[Luke Plant]

Hi all,

We need a section in our release notes about dropping support for 
Python 2.3.  I was trying to write it, and I wanted to say "as 
announced in such & such a place", but I can't actually find that 
place. I know the decision was made somehow...

Also, we should be adding any plans to drop 2.4, 2.5 etc into the 
internals/deprecation.txt documentation, and we ought to do that 
*before* 1.2 is released, to give as much warning as possible.

I don't think we have ever come to a consensus on when to drop 2.4 
support, though a year ago James Bennett made a well researched post 
suggesting that 1.2 should drop Python 2.3 support, 1.3 should drop 
Python 2.4 support, and 1.4 drop Python 2.5 support, so that we can 
then continue development against 2.6, with a Python 3.0 port.  No-one 
disagreed with that plan, but then again few people responded.  

While James' post contained a lot of details on why dropping 2.3 is 
OK, and there was consensus that coping with Python 2.3 bugs is 
significant enough to slow development and hinder the road to 3.0, I 
don't recall any similar analysis with respect to 2.4.

We really do need to be giving people warning if we are going to be 
dropping 2.4, and it needs to be in the version before it happens at 
the very least.

We could possibly say something like "1.2.X is the last series 
*guaranteed* to support Python 2.4". That way, we can postpone the 
actual decision, while encouraging people to upgrade and giving us the 
freedom to drop it if that seems like a good idea.

Luke

-- 
"I imagine bugs and girls have a dim suspicion that nature played a 
cruel trick on them, but they lack the intelligence to really 
comprehend the magnitude of it." (Calvin and Hobbes)

Luke Plant || http://lukeplant.me.uk/

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