Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
Komodo Edit 5 couldn't run at Debian Etch. Has anybody some older version ? (4) Ivan On Wednesday 26 November 2008 17:50, vivek wrote: > > I also use komodo ide : > - It can be used with other dynamic languages like php, so if you > sometimes need to do something in languages other than python, it can > come in handy. > - They have excellent licensing policy > > but i doubt there is any "best" ide to everyone's need. Most of > choices suggested here are either free or free to try, so you can try > them first. > > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > > need to find documentation? > > now for your second question: > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/ > http://www.djangobook.com/ > > both are excellent resources for django documentation. > > > -- Mgr. Ivan Minčík Gista s.r.o tel:. 0907 639 570 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gista.sk, http://demo.gisplan.sk --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I also use komodo ide : - It can be used with other dynamic languages like php, so if you sometimes need to do something in languages other than python, it can come in handy. - They have excellent licensing policy but i doubt there is any "best" ide to everyone's need. Most of choices suggested here are either free or free to try, so you can try them first. > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? now for your second question: http://docs.djangoproject.com/ http://www.djangobook.com/ both are excellent resources for django documentation. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
Well, if you install ipython, you also get auto completion with manage.py shell :-) -- Horst On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Steve Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I personally use Komodo Edit along with IDLE. Also instead of using > "manage.py shell" I use IDLE. I am so spoiled by the autocompletions. > > On 11/26/08, Chagel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> anyone know when NB has Django project support? >> >> >> On Nov 25, 8:26 pm, bedros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I personally like Komodo Edit >> > >> > after trying komodo, I switched from pydev and eclipse to komodo; >> > >> > On Nov 25, 10:56 am, "Antoni Aloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > 2008/11/25 Kurczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > >> > > > I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. >> > > > They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well >> > > > suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to >> > > > Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). >> > >> > > I have tested Komodo Edit and personally I like best vim + extensions, >> > > Eric4, Eclipse + pyDev or actually Netbeans. >> > > I you haven't tested yet give Netbeans a look. In my opinion this is >> > > the way to go on Python development. >> > >> > > Eclipse+pyDev and Eric4 actually have more Python options, specially >> > > on refactoring, but Netbeans interface is much clearer and the >> > > combination of auto completion and documentation is really good. I >> > > also like very much the svn diff tool with syntax highlight. >> > >> > > Eclipse and Eric4 have a more svn interface. From Netbeans I don't >> > > like that the auto completion shows all the packages that are in the >> > > project even if they aren't related to it, and that it shows the pyc. >> > > But I have been testing it during the last days and even with this >> >> > > lacks it's one of the best IDEs.- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - >> >> > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Steve Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I personally use Komodo Edit along with IDLE. Also instead of using > "manage.py shell" I use IDLE. I am so spoiled by the autocompletions. I am also using Komodo IDE and like it a lot. You may also want to check out django-komodo-kit: http://code.google.com/p/django-komodo-kit/ cheers apm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I personally use Komodo Edit along with IDLE. Also instead of using "manage.py shell" I use IDLE. I am so spoiled by the autocompletions. On 11/26/08, Chagel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > anyone know when NB has Django project support? > > > On Nov 25, 8:26 pm, bedros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I personally like Komodo Edit > > > > after trying komodo, I switched from pydev and eclipse to komodo; > > > > On Nov 25, 10:56 am, "Antoni Aloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > 2008/11/25 Kurczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. > > > > They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well > > > > suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to > > > > Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). > > > > > I have tested Komodo Edit and personally I like best vim + extensions, > > > Eric4, Eclipse + pyDev or actually Netbeans. > > > I you haven't tested yet give Netbeans a look. In my opinion this is > > > the way to go on Python development. > > > > > Eclipse+pyDev and Eric4 actually have more Python options, specially > > > on refactoring, but Netbeans interface is much clearer and the > > > combination of auto completion and documentation is really good. I > > > also like very much the svn diff tool with syntax highlight. > > > > > Eclipse and Eric4 have a more svn interface. From Netbeans I don't > > > like that the auto completion shows all the packages that are in the > > > project even if they aren't related to it, and that it shows the pyc. > > > But I have been testing it during the last days and even with this > > > > lacks it's one of the best IDEs.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I have been using WingIDE from www.wingware.com. I think it's pretty good. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:27 AM, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > standard. > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > limited. > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
anyone know when NB has Django project support? On Nov 25, 8:26 pm, bedros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I personally like Komodo Edit > > after trying komodo, I switched from pydev and eclipse to komodo; > > On Nov 25, 10:56 am, "Antoni Aloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > 2008/11/25 Kurczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. > > > They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well > > > suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to > > > Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). > > > I have tested Komodo Edit and personally I like best vim + extensions, > > Eric4, Eclipse + pyDev or actually Netbeans. > > I you haven't tested yet give Netbeans a look. In my opinion this is > > the way to go on Python development. > > > Eclipse+pyDev and Eric4 actually have more Python options, specially > > on refactoring, but Netbeans interface is much clearer and the > > combination of auto completion and documentation is really good. I > > also like very much the svn diff tool with syntax highlight. > > > Eclipse and Eric4 have a more svn interface. From Netbeans I don't > > like that the auto completion shows all the packages that are in the > > project even if they aren't related to it, and that it shows the pyc. > > But I have been testing it during the last days and even with this > > lacks it's one of the best IDEs.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I personally like Komodo Edit after trying komodo, I switched from pydev and eclipse to komodo; On Nov 25, 10:56 am, "Antoni Aloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/11/25 Kurczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. > > They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well > > suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to > > Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). > > I have tested Komodo Edit and personally I like best vim + extensions, > Eric4, Eclipse + pyDev or actually Netbeans. > I you haven't tested yet give Netbeans a look. In my opinion this is > the way to go on Python development. > > Eclipse+pyDev and Eric4 actually have more Python options, specially > on refactoring, but Netbeans interface is much clearer and the > combination of auto completion and documentation is really good. I > also like very much the svn diff tool with syntax highlight. > > Eclipse and Eric4 have a more svn interface. From Netbeans I don't > like that the auto completion shows all the packages that are in the > project even if they aren't related to it, and that it shows the pyc. > But I have been testing it during the last days and even with this > lacks it's one of the best IDEs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
2008/11/25 Kurczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. > They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well > suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to > Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). I have tested Komodo Edit and personally I like best vim + extensions, Eric4, Eclipse + pyDev or actually Netbeans. I you haven't tested yet give Netbeans a look. In my opinion this is the way to go on Python development. Eclipse+pyDev and Eric4 actually have more Python options, specially on refactoring, but Netbeans interface is much clearer and the combination of auto completion and documentation is really good. I also like very much the svn diff tool with syntax highlight. Eclipse and Eric4 have a more svn interface. From Netbeans I don't like that the auto completion shows all the packages that are in the project even if they aren't related to it, and that it shows the pyc. But I have been testing it during the last days and even with this lacks it's one of the best IDEs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I wonder why no one mentioned Komodo IDE or Komodo Edit. They're my personal favorites for bigger projects. Both are well suited for dynamic languages and really lightweight compared to Bloatclipse with pydev (or aptana). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
2008/11/25 Russell Keith-Magee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > While I must apologize for Kenneth's poorly expressed frustration, his > underlying message is sound - this has come up _many_ times on > Django-users. A quick Google search should return many options, but > there is no clear or correct answer to your question. > > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > > standard. > > Having spent the afternoon wrestling with J2EE, I'd strongly disagree > with this assertion. I will agree that Java projects tend to have have > very extensive API documentation. This is a result of the combination > of Javadoc and strong IDE integration that supports Javadoc. However, > the quality of that documentation is highly variable. Unfortunately, > the fact that Java IDEs automatically write Javadoc stubs and provide > 1 button "build the documentation" hooks gives developers the mistaken > impression that a project is "well documented". Documentation for the > method "get_username()" that reads "Returns the username" doesn't > really illuminate anything. > > There is also the argument that good APIs don't require lots of API > documentation - after all, it should be obvious what get_username() > returns. If your API entry points require extensive explanations, > perhaps you need a better API. > > Good documentation means more than an API (and a _lot_ more than an > empty autogenerated stub). Documentation means good explanations of > the big picture - how the pieces fit together, how to achieve > important tasks, significant internal states, etc. This sort of > documentation doesn't fit well into simple API docs. It is also very > hard to write, and as a result, it often isn't written, and when it > is, it is rarely written well. This isn't unique to Java, either - the > vast majority of open source projects suffer from this affliction. > > I'd like to think that Django is on the better end of the spectrum > when it comes to documentation - we are blessed to have a journalism > major amongst our project founders, and a couple of other liberal arts > majors amongst the frequent contributors. As a result, > docs.djangoproject.com is a pretty thorough resource, and is generally > well written. This documentation is by no means perfect, but it is > certainly better than a lot of other projects out there. > > In addition to the official documentation, there is a wealth of > contributions on django-users and in the blogging community around > Django that provides excellent material to supplement the official > docs. Again, Google is your friend, and Django is a pretty specific > Google keyword :-) > > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > > limited. > > I've used PyDev too, and I'd agree with your assessment. However, > others seem to like it. YMMV. > > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > > need to find documentation? > > Your original query actually reveals a bias that is significant - why > do you want an IDE in particular? > > Java, as a semi-traditional compiled language, lends itself to IDE > development. The write-compile-run cycle places a certain imperative > on getting code right the first time. Admittedly, the incremental > compilation features of modern Java IDEs make this less of an issue, > but the general language culture leans towards tools and development > techniques that support this general philosophy. > > However, dynamic languages tend not to leverage IDEs as much. A lot of > Python developers (and developers in other dynamic languages) tend to > develop using relatively lightweight text editors. Some of these > editors provide code highlighting, code completion, and other IDE-like > features, but they definitely don't go as far as a traditional IDE. > > There are at least two reasons for this. Firstly, dynamic languages > don't require a write-compile-run cycle, so they lend themselves to > much greater experimentation. Want to know if an idea will work? Fire > up an interactive Python shell and test out your idea. Editors can > help you maintain scratchpads to develop a complex test harnesses; the > Python runtime environment provides the ability to dynamically reload > code modules during runtime. IDEs are very good when you're dealing > with managing a body of code that is 'published' into a compiled > product; I'm yet to see an IDE that can deal elegantly with the > capabilities of a dynamic language. > > Secondly, there is the long standing "unix vs windows" philosophical > argument. The Windows world (which, for all the Sun heritage, Java > really
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I think pydev + eclipse + aptana is the best choice, just configure correctly python PATH in pydev so the autocomplete works fine, debug your code with the extra option runserver 8080 --noreload works fine too, create external tools django commands, improve your pages with aptana, use firefox as your web-browser with addons FIREBUG installed (debug JavaScript, inspect HTML code, net speed). I used to work with Java but Python is relly good. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 15:27 +0300, Nikolay Panov wrote: > I'm using just gvim + some plugins (help.vim, autocomplpop.vim, > snippetsEmu.vim, ...). As for me, this is quite enough. > > Have a nice day, >Nikolay. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:27, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > > standard. > > > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > > limited. > > > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > > need to find documentation? > > > > > > > > > Abdel Bolaños Martínez Ing. Infórmatico Telf. 266-8562 5to piso, oficina 526, Edificio Beijing, Miramar Trade Center. ETECSA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
I'm using just gvim + some plugins (help.vim, autocomplpop.vim, snippetsEmu.vim, ...). As for me, this is quite enough. Have a nice day, Nikolay. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:27, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > standard. > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > limited. > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
On Nov 25, 4:59 am, "Russell Keith-Magee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm yet to see an IDE that can deal elegantly with the > capabilities of a dynamic language. This is really not relevant to the original question, but if you say that, you've never used Smalltalk or Lisp. The Smalltalk environment is where the Eclipse IDE originated, and then it was dumbed down significantly for Java. In Smalltalk, you could dynamically change anything in the environment, as well as change code on the fly in the debugger. It was (and still is) awesomely fluid. Unfortunately, the Smalltalk community never really grokked the Web, or you could now be using a dynamic Web-based development environment for Django. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
It's unlikely I will be able to add much after Russ, but I will suggest a book that has helped me a GREAT deal in support of the IDE- approach: Foundations of Agile Python Development: http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Python-Development-Experts-Source/dp/1590599810 It goes step-by-step over subversion and eclipse and pydev. It covers windows and linux though the author uses linux. I was able to use everything on Windows just fine but I HAVE migrated to linux since then (painful but possible)... Good luck and while I'm not much less new than you, I can say with sincerity, WELCOME! Keyton On Nov 25, 5:59 am, "Russell Keith-Magee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > While I must apologize for Kenneth's poorly expressed frustration, his > underlying message is sound - this has come up _many_ times on > Django-users. A quick Google search should return many options, but > there is no clear or correct answer to your question. > > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > > standard. > > Having spent the afternoon wrestling with J2EE, I'd strongly disagree > with this assertion. I will agree that Java projects tend to have have > very extensive API documentation. This is a result of the combination > of Javadoc and strong IDE integration that supports Javadoc. However, > the quality of that documentation is highly variable. Unfortunately, > the fact that Java IDEs automatically write Javadoc stubs and provide > 1 button "build the documentation" hooks gives developers the mistaken > impression that a project is "well documented". Documentation for the > method "get_username()" that reads "Returns the username" doesn't > really illuminate anything. > > There is also the argument that good APIs don't require lots of API > documentation - after all, it should be obvious what get_username() > returns. If your API entry points require extensive explanations, > perhaps you need a better API. > > Good documentation means more than an API (and a _lot_ more than an > empty autogenerated stub). Documentation means good explanations of > the big picture - how the pieces fit together, how to achieve > important tasks, significant internal states, etc. This sort of > documentation doesn't fit well into simple API docs. It is also very > hard to write, and as a result, it often isn't written, and when it > is, it is rarely written well. This isn't unique to Java, either - the > vast majority of open source projects suffer from this affliction. > > I'd like to think that Django is on the better end of the spectrum > when it comes to documentation - we are blessed to have a journalism > major amongst our project founders, and a couple of other liberal arts > majors amongst the frequent contributors. As a result, > docs.djangoproject.com is a pretty thorough resource, and is generally > well written. This documentation is by no means perfect, but it is > certainly better than a lot of other projects out there. > > In addition to the official documentation, there is a wealth of > contributions on django-users and in the blogging community around > Django that provides excellent material to supplement the official > docs. Again, Google is your friend, and Django is a pretty specific > Google keyword :-) > > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > > limited. > > I've used PyDev too, and I'd agree with your assessment. However, > others seem to like it. YMMV. > > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > > need to find documentation? > > Your original query actually reveals a bias that is significant - why > do you want an IDE in particular? > > Java, as a semi-traditional compiled language, lends itself to IDE > development. The write-compile-run cycle places a certain imperative > on getting code right the first time. Admittedly, the incremental > compilation features of modern Java IDEs make this less of an issue, > but the general language culture leans towards tools and development > techniques that support this general philosophy. > > However, dynamic languages tend not to leverage IDEs as much. A lot of > Python developers (and developers in other dynamic languages) tend to > develop using relatively lightweight text editors. Some of these > editors provide code highlighting, code completion, and other IDE-like > features, but they definitely don't go as far as a traditional IDE. > > There are at least two reasons for this. Firstly, dynamic languages > don't require a write-compile-run cycle, so they lend themselves to > much greater experimentation. Want to know if an idea will
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. While I must apologize for Kenneth's poorly expressed frustration, his underlying message is sound - this has come up _many_ times on Django-users. A quick Google search should return many options, but there is no clear or correct answer to your question. > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > standard. Having spent the afternoon wrestling with J2EE, I'd strongly disagree with this assertion. I will agree that Java projects tend to have have very extensive API documentation. This is a result of the combination of Javadoc and strong IDE integration that supports Javadoc. However, the quality of that documentation is highly variable. Unfortunately, the fact that Java IDEs automatically write Javadoc stubs and provide 1 button "build the documentation" hooks gives developers the mistaken impression that a project is "well documented". Documentation for the method "get_username()" that reads "Returns the username" doesn't really illuminate anything. There is also the argument that good APIs don't require lots of API documentation - after all, it should be obvious what get_username() returns. If your API entry points require extensive explanations, perhaps you need a better API. Good documentation means more than an API (and a _lot_ more than an empty autogenerated stub). Documentation means good explanations of the big picture - how the pieces fit together, how to achieve important tasks, significant internal states, etc. This sort of documentation doesn't fit well into simple API docs. It is also very hard to write, and as a result, it often isn't written, and when it is, it is rarely written well. This isn't unique to Java, either - the vast majority of open source projects suffer from this affliction. I'd like to think that Django is on the better end of the spectrum when it comes to documentation - we are blessed to have a journalism major amongst our project founders, and a couple of other liberal arts majors amongst the frequent contributors. As a result, docs.djangoproject.com is a pretty thorough resource, and is generally well written. This documentation is by no means perfect, but it is certainly better than a lot of other projects out there. In addition to the official documentation, there is a wealth of contributions on django-users and in the blogging community around Django that provides excellent material to supplement the official docs. Again, Google is your friend, and Django is a pretty specific Google keyword :-) > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > limited. I've used PyDev too, and I'd agree with your assessment. However, others seem to like it. YMMV. > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? Your original query actually reveals a bias that is significant - why do you want an IDE in particular? Java, as a semi-traditional compiled language, lends itself to IDE development. The write-compile-run cycle places a certain imperative on getting code right the first time. Admittedly, the incremental compilation features of modern Java IDEs make this less of an issue, but the general language culture leans towards tools and development techniques that support this general philosophy. However, dynamic languages tend not to leverage IDEs as much. A lot of Python developers (and developers in other dynamic languages) tend to develop using relatively lightweight text editors. Some of these editors provide code highlighting, code completion, and other IDE-like features, but they definitely don't go as far as a traditional IDE. There are at least two reasons for this. Firstly, dynamic languages don't require a write-compile-run cycle, so they lend themselves to much greater experimentation. Want to know if an idea will work? Fire up an interactive Python shell and test out your idea. Editors can help you maintain scratchpads to develop a complex test harnesses; the Python runtime environment provides the ability to dynamically reload code modules during runtime. IDEs are very good when you're dealing with managing a body of code that is 'published' into a compiled product; I'm yet to see an IDE that can deal elegantly with the capabilities of a dynamic language. Secondly, there is the long standing "unix vs windows" philosophical argument. The Windows world (which, for all the Sun heritage, Java really is a part of) tends to push monolithic tools that do everything. The unix world, on the other hand, tends to push lots of little tools, each of which does one thing well. Want something to edit text? Get a good text editor.
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
OK, back to the topic at hand :-) While I personally don't use any IDE for developing in Python (I'm more the editor+cli kind of guy), the big Java-based IDEs are more and more opening up to other languages. For example Netbeans has now an early-access program for Python support [1] in their IDE. Regarding code management, as I said, I rely mostly on command-line clients of Git [2] and Mercurial [3]. In the documentation department Django's source tarball comes with everything you actually need to know about it. Just install Sphinx [4], go to the docs/ folder and run `make html` to convert the whole documentation of Django into easily readable (and thanks to JavaScript also searchable) HTML pages :-) In fact IMO documentation support in Python is even more integrated into the language environment than it is with Java since you can access a module's, class' or function's documentation right from the commandline with the `pydoc` command instead of first having to build it using javadoc (just my 2c). For your own project documentation, you should probably take a very close look at the Sphinx project [4] mentioned above. It's slowly become the favorite documentation tool of the Python community. If you've got so used to javadoc that you can't live without that style of documentation-output, take a look at epydoc [5] -- Horst [1] http://wiki.netbeans.org/Python [2] http://git.or.cz/ [3] http://www.selenic.com/mercurial [4] http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ [5] http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/ On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:27 AM, DragonSlayre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with > Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use > to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. > > Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, > and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the > standard. > > I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely > limited. > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
Agreed! I see the same kind of arrogance in some of the posts and even more these days on IRC. I completely agree that some of us do ask questions, and sometimes without properly checking the available docs, archives of discussion and other known sources.It gets irritating as you see teh same question being asked again! However, there can be a better way of addressing such frustration. Just because you send a stinker to a newbie, another newbie won't repeat the question. I had recently heard on an alternate IRC chatgroup of another popular Python project, where a number of newbies felt that some of the more knowledgeable and experienced django users have been quite curt and even offending when elementary questions are asked of django or even about Python. This was not the case when I first joined in thsi group as a newbie. We need to remember that every community will consist of developers and users, who have varied backgrounds and knowledge levels and the user group/IRC belongs as much as, to a completely new user as much as to the guys, who wrote all the code that makes this project wonderful! Thanks Ramdas On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Russell Keith-Magee <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:57:09 pm DragonSlayre wrote: > >> How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > >> need to find documentation? > > > > why do you not check the archives of this list? You are the 10,000th > person to > > ask this same idiotic question > > Kenneth - that kind of attitiude doesn't help anyone, and doesn't make > the Django community look good. Let's keep the personal epithets under > control. > > Yours, > Russ Magee %-) > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:57:09 pm DragonSlayre wrote: >> How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you >> need to find documentation? > > why do you not check the archives of this list? You are the 10,000th person to > ask this same idiotic question Kenneth - that kind of attitiude doesn't help anyone, and doesn't make the Django community look good. Let's keep the personal epithets under control. Yours, Russ Magee %-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
Well maybe the problem is that the answer is not obvious On Nov 25, 3:42 am, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:57:09 pm DragonSlayre wrote: > > > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > > need to find documentation? > > why do you not check the archives of this list? You are the 10,000th person to > ask this same idiotic question > > -- > regards > KGhttp://lawgon.livejournal.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Best IDE for Django and python?
On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:57:09 pm DragonSlayre wrote: > How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you > need to find documentation? why do you not check the archives of this list? You are the 10,000th person to ask this same idiotic question -- regards KG http://lawgon.livejournal.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Best IDE for Django and python?
Hey, I'm getting started with a friend in developing a site with Django, and we're both new to this, so I am wondering what people use to manage all their files, and for looking at documentation etc. Having come from a Java background, I'm used to great documentation, and suspect that Java is very much the leader in doc, and not the standard. I've used the pydev plugin for eclipse, but it seems extremely limited. How do you develop your django projects, and where do you go when you need to find documentation? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
