Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Javier Guerra Giraldez]

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 12:55 AM, graeme  wrote:
> Why Mako? As a personal preference it is fine, but why general advice for
> newbies? Many people are happy with Django templates - although I far prefer
> Jinja which had the advantages without some of the more annoying
> restrictions.

after a quick look at Mako, it's similar enough to PHP (embedding a
full language in the template) to be familiar to many newcomers
for the wrong reasons.

there's a reason why the Django templates (and Jinja too, i believe)
make a conscious effort not to be Turing-complete.

-- 
Javier

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[graeme]

On Friday, September 7, 2012 8:38:56 AM UTC+5:30, ecs1749 wrote:
>
> Well, that's almost true :-)
>
> Granted - it's a lot easier so far but I had to track down several things 
> (and a whole lot of "here's how" tips) that were taken for granted (like 
> pip which require easy_install so on and so forth).  
>
> In retrospect, I recommend future newbee to take this route: start with 
> Oracle's VirtualBox and build a Ubuntu virtual machine,   Enable the 
> desktop, mySQL, and SSLServer.  Get easy_install which comes with pip.  
> Install Django via pip, add Python-mySQL and Mako - then off you go.  It's 
> a whole lot easier this way. 


Easier still: install  virtualenv (in the Ubuntu repos), which comes with 
pip and use sqlite (which should be already installed). I have not had any 
problems so far developing on SQLite and eventually deploying using 
Postgres.

Why Mako? As a personal preference it is fine, but why general advice for 
newbies? Many people are happy with Django templates - although I far 
prefer Jinja which had the advantages without some of the more annoying 
restrictions.
 

>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:21:57 AM UTC-7, Kurtis wrote:
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> All you should need to get through the Django Tutorial is Python and 
>> Django. During development you can use SQLite which is built in and doesn't 
>> need any third-party libraries. Good luck!
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:23 PM, ecs1749  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks.  I might as well bite bits of it.  It's tough going because 
>>> there are so many dependencies.  It's hard to gather all of the right 
>>> packages just to get through the Django tutorial.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:59:02 AM UTC-7, Demian Brecht wrote:
>>>
 You *can* install Django on Linux, Mac or Windows. Choose the 
 environment that you're most accustomed to if you're just trying to 
 get things done. However, if you want to learn Linux at the same time 
 (at least, bits of it), then I fully endorse going down that path. 

 On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM, ecs1749  wrote: 
 > 
 > Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running 
 using oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't 
 even know how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this 
 is 
 a start... 
 > 

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>>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[graeme]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:43:53 AM UTC+5:30, Daniel Roseman wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 03:32:08 UTC+1, ecs1749 wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where to 
>> go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from the 
>> development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 and 
>> hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk about 
>> wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a development 
>> server" tutorial somewhere?
>>
>>
> You should not be doing the tutorial - or any development - on your 
> server. Install Django locally and do it there, then deploy when you are 
> ready and not before.
>

I have used the development server to run a test site so the client could 
see the site easily. It sat behind a real webserver: if you do this you can 
tighten security a bit (e.g. use http authentication to limit access).

 

>
> However, you are wrong to assume that the admin console has anything to do 
> with the development server - it works just fine with any server.
> --
> DR.
>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

Well, that's almost true :-)

Granted - it's a lot easier so far but I had to track down several things 
(and a whole lot of "here's how" tips) that were taken for granted (like 
pip which require easy_install so on and so forth).  

In retrospect, I recommend future newbee to take this route: start with 
Oracle's VirtualBox and build a Ubuntu virtual machine,   Enable the 
desktop, mySQL, and SSLServer.  Get easy_install which comes with pip.  
Install Django via pip, add Python-mySQL and Mako - then off you go.  It's 
a whole lot easier this way.  

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:21:57 AM UTC-7, Kurtis wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> All you should need to get through the Django Tutorial is Python and 
> Django. During development you can use SQLite which is built in and doesn't 
> need any third-party libraries. Good luck!
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:23 PM, ecs1749 >wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  I might as well bite bits of it.  It's tough going because there 
>> are so many dependencies.  It's hard to gather all of the right packages 
>> just to get through the Django tutorial.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:59:02 AM UTC-7, Demian Brecht wrote:
>>
>>> You *can* install Django on Linux, Mac or Windows. Choose the 
>>> environment that you're most accustomed to if you're just trying to 
>>> get things done. However, if you want to learn Linux at the same time 
>>> (at least, bits of it), then I fully endorse going down that path. 
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM, ecs1749  wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running 
>>> using oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't 
>>> even know how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this is 
>>> a start... 
>>> > 
>>>
>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Django users" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/1pD4k3PdhtEJ.
>>
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>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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>>
>
>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Kurtis Mullins]

Hey,

All you should need to get through the Django Tutorial is Python and
Django. During development you can use SQLite which is built in and doesn't
need any third-party libraries. Good luck!

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:23 PM, ecs1749  wrote:

> Thanks.  I might as well bite bits of it.  It's tough going because there
> are so many dependencies.  It's hard to gather all of the right packages
> just to get through the Django tutorial.
>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:59:02 AM UTC-7, Demian Brecht wrote:
>
>> You *can* install Django on Linux, Mac or Windows. Choose the
>> environment that you're most accustomed to if you're just trying to
>> get things done. However, if you want to learn Linux at the same time
>> (at least, bits of it), then I fully endorse going down that path.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM, ecs1749  wrote:
>> >
>> > Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running using
>> oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't even
>> know how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this is a
>> start...
>> >
>>
>  --
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>
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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

Thanks.  I might as well bite bits of it.  It's tough going because there 
are so many dependencies.  It's hard to gather all of the right packages 
just to get through the Django tutorial.

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:59:02 AM UTC-7, Demian Brecht wrote:
>
> You *can* install Django on Linux, Mac or Windows. Choose the 
> environment that you're most accustomed to if you're just trying to 
> get things done. However, if you want to learn Linux at the same time 
> (at least, bits of it), then I fully endorse going down that path. 
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM, ecs1749 > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running using 
> oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't even 
> know how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this is a 
> start... 
> > 
>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Demian Brecht]

You *can* install Django on Linux, Mac or Windows. Choose the
environment that you're most accustomed to if you're just trying to
get things done. However, if you want to learn Linux at the same time
(at least, bits of it), then I fully endorse going down that path.

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM, ecs1749  wrote:
>
> Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running using 
> oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't even know 
> how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this is a start...
>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

Ok, ok.  I now have a Ubuntu/server with a Ubuntu desktop running using 
oracle vm virtualbox.   I know almost nothing about Linux.  I don't even 
know how to ssh to this beast sitting in front of me.  I  hope this is a 
start...

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:19:57 AM UTC-7, Marcin wrote:
>
> You don't have a computer that you can develop on at all? How are you 
> writing this email? Developing over ssh is going to be a huge pain.
>
> Now, you *maybe* can use the runserver command - if you do add the --help 
> switch it will tell you how to run it to bind to a particular interface and 
> port. It maybe that you can bind it to a port on the localhost interface 
> (and then tunnel that over ssh), or you may be able to have your host 
> allocate you specific ports which you can use to run any kind of web server 
> you like. 
>
> While runserver shouldn't be used for production, I have used it to 
> diagnose specific problems in the production environment, which inevitably 
> will differ from development when using a shared host. This is, of course, 
> fairly insecure, and could even be illegal depending on your data 
> protection obligations. 
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:03 PM, ecs1749  >wrote:
>
>> I don't have a local machine I can use to learn Django - just a personal 
>> acct from a shared host.  The question I kept asking was:  How do I get 
>> into admin and follow the tutorial without the development server because 
>> the tutorial doesn't tell me that.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 11:13:53 PM UTC-7, Daniel Roseman wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 03:32:08 UTC+1, ecs1749 wrote:

 Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where 
 to go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from 
 the development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 
 and hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk 
 about wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a 
 development server" tutorial somewhere?


>>> You should not be doing the tutorial - or any development - on your 
>>> server. Install Django locally and do it there, then deploy when you are 
>>> ready and not before.
>>>
>>> However, you are wrong to assume that the admin console has anything to 
>>> do with the development server - it works just fine with any server.
>>> --
>>> DR.
>>>
>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Django users" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/UhMFGZB6YS0J.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to django...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> django-users...@googlegroups.com .
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Marcin Tustin
> Tel: +44 (0) 7773 787 105 (UK)
>+1  917 553 3974 (US)
>
>
>  

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Marcin Tustin]

You don't have a computer that you can develop on at all? How are you
writing this email? Developing over ssh is going to be a huge pain.

Now, you *maybe* can use the runserver command - if you do add the --help
switch it will tell you how to run it to bind to a particular interface and
port. It maybe that you can bind it to a port on the localhost interface
(and then tunnel that over ssh), or you may be able to have your host
allocate you specific ports which you can use to run any kind of web server
you like.

While runserver shouldn't be used for production, I have used it to
diagnose specific problems in the production environment, which inevitably
will differ from development when using a shared host. This is, of course,
fairly insecure, and could even be illegal depending on your data
protection obligations.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:03 PM, ecs1749  wrote:

> I don't have a local machine I can use to learn Django - just a personal
> acct from a shared host.  The question I kept asking was:  How do I get
> into admin and follow the tutorial without the development server because
> the tutorial doesn't tell me that.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 11:13:53 PM UTC-7, Daniel Roseman wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 03:32:08 UTC+1, ecs1749 wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where
>>> to go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from
>>> the development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3
>>> and hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk
>>> about wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a
>>> development server" tutorial somewhere?
>>>
>>>
>> You should not be doing the tutorial - or any development - on your
>> server. Install Django locally and do it there, then deploy when you are
>> ready and not before.
>>
>> However, you are wrong to assume that the admin console has anything to
>> do with the development server - it works just fine with any server.
>> --
>> DR.
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django users" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/UhMFGZB6YS0J.
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>



-- 
Marcin Tustin
Tel: +44 (0) 7773 787 105 (UK)
   +1  917 553 3974 (US)

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

I don't have a local machine I can use to learn Django - just a personal 
acct from a shared host.  The question I kept asking was:  How do I get 
into admin and follow the tutorial without the development server because 
the tutorial doesn't tell me that.

Regards,

On Monday, September 3, 2012 11:13:53 PM UTC-7, Daniel Roseman wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 03:32:08 UTC+1, ecs1749 wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where to 
>> go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from the 
>> development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 and 
>> hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk about 
>> wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a development 
>> server" tutorial somewhere?
>>
>>
> You should not be doing the tutorial - or any development - on your 
> server. Install Django locally and do it there, then deploy when you are 
> ready and not before.
>
> However, you are wrong to assume that the admin console has anything to do 
> with the development server - it works just fine with any server.
> --
> DR.
>

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

To answer my own question, I found the following:

http://www.andymboyle.com/django-tutorials/

On Monday, September 3, 2012 7:32:08 PM UTC-7, ecs1749 wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where to 
> go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from the 
> development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 and 
> hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk about 
> wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a development 
> server" tutorial somewhere?
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 1:10:51 PM UTC-7, jondbaker wrote:
>>
>> In the 'Running the Development Server' section of this 
>> pagein the tutorial it states 
>> that:
>> "Although this server is convenient for development, resist the 
>> temptation to use it in anything resembling a production environment. The 
>> development server can handle only a single request at a time reliably, and 
>> it has not gone through a security audit of any sort."
>>
>> The 'runserver' command should only be used for local development. You 
>> need to configure your server to work with Django via wsgi (or a similar 
>> method).
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM, ecs1749  wrote:
>>
>>> I have Django working from a shared host account (westhost).  I was able 
>>> to follow all of the steps in tutorials 1 & 2 except the part on starting 
>>> the development server.  Apparently westhost won't let you run that.  
>>> Without the development server, how do  I access the Django admin functions?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Django users" group.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/JUTvMucLwLYJ.
>>> To post to this group, send email to django...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>> django-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jonathan D. Baker
>> Developer
>> http://jonathandbaker.com
>>
>>  

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Daniel Roseman]

On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 03:32:08 UTC+1, ecs1749 wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where to 
> go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from the 
> development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 and 
> hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk about 
> wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a development 
> server" tutorial somewhere?
>
>
You should not be doing the tutorial - or any development - on your server. 
Install Django locally and do it there, then deploy when you are ready and 
not before.

However, you are wrong to assume that the admin console has anything to do 
with the development server - it works just fine with any server.
--
DR.

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I saw that message.  I am a bit lost where to 
go next if I completely ignore that tutorial regarding doing admin from the 
development server (which I don't have).  Do I dive into tutorial   #3 and 
hope that it will pick up the admin stuff later when it gets to talk about 
wsgi?  Or is there a "here's what you do if you don't have a development 
server" tutorial somewhere?

On Monday, September 3, 2012 1:10:51 PM UTC-7, jondbaker wrote:
>
> In the 'Running the Development Server' section of this 
> pagein the tutorial it states 
> that:
> "Although this server is convenient for development, resist the temptation 
> to use it in anything resembling a production environment. The development 
> server can handle only a single request at a time reliably, and it has not 
> gone through a security audit of any sort."
>
> The 'runserver' command should only be used for local development. You 
> need to configure your server to work with Django via wsgi (or a similar 
> method).
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM, ecs1749 >wrote:
>
>> I have Django working from a shared host account (westhost).  I was able 
>> to follow all of the steps in tutorials 1 & 2 except the part on starting 
>> the development server.  Apparently westhost won't let you run that.  
>> Without the development server, how do  I access the Django admin functions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Django users" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/JUTvMucLwLYJ.
>> To post to this group, send email to django...@googlegroups.com
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> Jonathan D. Baker
> Developer
> http://jonathandbaker.com
>
>  

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Re: Development server won't work from a shared web host

[Jonathan Baker]

In the 'Running the Development Server' section of this
pagein the tutorial it
states that:
"Although this server is convenient for development, resist the temptation
to use it in anything resembling a production environment. The development
server can handle only a single request at a time reliably, and it has not
gone through a security audit of any sort."

The 'runserver' command should only be used for local development. You need
to configure your server to work with Django via wsgi (or a similar method).

Jonathan

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM, ecs1749  wrote:

> I have Django working from a shared host account (westhost).  I was able
> to follow all of the steps in tutorials 1 & 2 except the part on starting
> the development server.  Apparently westhost won't let you run that.
> Without the development server, how do  I access the Django admin functions?
>
> Thanks,
>
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Jonathan D. Baker
Developer
http://jonathandbaker.com

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Development server won't work from a shared web host

[ecs1749]

I have Django working from a shared host account (westhost).  I was able to 
follow all of the steps in tutorials 1 & 2 except the part on starting the 
development server.  Apparently westhost won't let you run that.  Without 
the development server, how do  I access the Django admin functions?

Thanks,

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