Re: Django's target applications?
I'd like to add that I came to Python actually because of Django. I have watched for long time different frameworks (of different languages) and Django seems most like-minded to me. And I was pleasantly surprised on how mod_python and Django actually works. The fact that mod_python caching (compiled?) scripts in memory is just great. That is what I always wanted! And its probably Django's feature (I m not sure yet how it works) - some operations, like evaluation of settings and url files done only once, at application start up, not on every page hit. Even better than one could imagine! That is pretty much issue for PHP. I was forced to actually cache stuff that could be computed only once, by serializing this data. But still there was some overhead (although unserialization is even cheaper than evaluation of actual PHP code). That alone just amazing and worth considering to use Django/mod_puthon regardless of other framework features. -- serg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
Thanks for replays, everyone. My fault - I didn't said I already went through official tutorial, some of the documentation and faq. I have set up and studied django website sources, and also red a few articles, including "How Django processes a request" (both, James and Simon's). Presentations from google techtalks and snakes-and-rubies thing were quite interesting - general overview of framework with examples, etc. - You should do more of such things probably. And Tom's screencast of course... Still, I do not understand this "shared-nothing" thing. Sounds like cool marketing slogan =) Regarding performance. Throwing more ram, moving tasks to separated rigs, and setting caching proxy rigs are indeed effective options. But not in first place. In fact this should be more like last resort. Framework-level caching on different stages are much better solution. Even better is what is called "to do things faster is to do less". It is one of my mantras (I share yours as well - DRY, Loose Coupling, and Explicit is Better). Although often they might conflict with each other - Explicit is Better vs Less Code, and Faster is Less vs DRY/Quick Development... To not violate the "Faster is Less" principle, one should know framework pretty well, and framework itself should presuppose this on design level. Thats what I was asking about - does Django scales good in term of application growth (not just data growth, in fact usually it is both). Adding more and more features often lead to application doing unnecessary stuff behind scenes. Things that could be avoided - computations, database calls, etc. That is, just waste of resources. Or else, it will lead to loosing abstraction level in favor of performance. That is, maintenance hell. Its hard to me to explain my concerns exactly, but hope you got the idea. I looked though list of Django-powered sites, and surfed some of them. But it can't tell me how they works. What set up the use, and how big they are in terms of domain logic and how efficient resulted (framework + site) code is. So I just asked here =) Question should be more like "Do Django designed to helps big sophisticated projects to stay maintainable and yet efficient in terms of performance while growing further?" I'm sure for good developers it is possible to achieve this with or without any framework, but key is "Do Django *designed*" that way? -- serg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
Thanks for the comments, I've updated the two entries for Melt under "Community building" and "Social Networking" the same (maybe a bit too self-promotional, or maybe the two categories are better merged?) As Paul and Don said: we call the application/software "Melt", and through the link to our blog you should be able to access our Subversion server and check out Melt if you like (it's available under LGPL license). We're using the software for our CoolThePlanet social networking site. And if people like to try out some Django coding and help us develop the software further, please contact me :-) To get back to Serg's questions about levels of sophistication and performance: - We try to keep the software relatively simple, but ready to plug in more sophisticated elements. My personal impression so far is that those elements then still need quite some work (we decided for instance to just build a simple forum tool for what we need now) - Your words "robust, maintainable, and scalable" were crucial requirements for us, and Django was most convincing at the time the decision was made (November 2005); ever since, I've only seen reports of people reconfirming that -- including in this thread :-) (We're not just using Django, BTW, but also other frameworks for other applications, like Ruby on Rails) Rolf Kleef (managing CoolThePlanet at Greenpeace) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
On Oct 6, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Paul Barry wrote: > > The link on > > http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoPoweredSites > > points to the blog. I guess that link should be updated. Melt is the Django application (next to the link it says "social networking *software*", not *site*), the link points to the developer blog page where you can download the software from the repository. If you scroll up to the heading "Community-Building Web Sites", you see a link to cooltheplanet.net, which is the actual website that uses the Melt software. Don --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
The link on http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoPoweredSites points to the blog. I guess that link should be updated. On 10/6/06, Antonio Cavedoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 6 Oct 2006, at 22:02, Paul Barry wrote: > > The social networking site with ~1 millions users, are you referring > > to grono.net? The action of the login page is do-login.jsp and the > > Server header is "Apache-Coyote/1.1". Melt points to a MovableType > > blog. > > I have no idea about grono.net, but this is the result of the > "Custard Melt" project (you stumbled upon the development blog): > > http://www.cooltheplanet.net/ > > Cheers. > -- > Antonio > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
On 6 Oct 2006, at 22:02, Paul Barry wrote: > The social networking site with ~1 millions users, are you referring > to grono.net? The action of the login page is do-login.jsp and the > Server header is "Apache-Coyote/1.1". Melt points to a MovableType > blog. I have no idea about grono.net, but this is the result of the “Custard Melt” project (you stumbled upon the development blog): http://www.cooltheplanet.net/ Cheers. -- Antonio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
The social networking site with ~1 millions users, are you referring to grono.net? The action of the login page is do-login.jsp and the Server header is "Apache-Coyote/1.1". Melt points to a MovableType blog. On 10/6/06, James Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 10/6/06, Serg Kovrov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm asking because rapid web application development (RAD, RWAD?) is > > indeed cool (and in real life deadlines are quite issues), but I'm more > > interested in development of robust, maintainable, and scalable (mostly > > big) applications. > > I'm seconding the recommendation that you check out the list of > Django-powered sites; you'll find things like: > > * A browsable database of *every vote* in both houses of the US > Congress, going back about a decade and constantly updated while > Congress is in session. > * More newspapers (of all sizes) than you can shake a stick at, with > more always in development (one of the biggest news publishers in > America has bought in to a Django-based platform). > * A social networking site with ~1million users. > > And so on and so forth. Don't confuse "development can go quickly" > with "development can't scale" -- Django scales very easily to both > ends of the spectrum, whether you're just building a one-off internal > app or a huge deployment. > > -- > "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." > -- George Carlin > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
On 10/6/06, Serg Kovrov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm asking because rapid web application development (RAD, RWAD?) is > indeed cool (and in real life deadlines are quite issues), but I'm more > interested in development of robust, maintainable, and scalable (mostly > big) applications. I'm seconding the recommendation that you check out the list of Django-powered sites; you'll find things like: * A browsable database of *every vote* in both houses of the US Congress, going back about a decade and constantly updated while Congress is in session. * More newspapers (of all sizes) than you can shake a stick at, with more always in development (one of the biggest news publishers in America has bought in to a Django-based platform). * A social networking site with ~1million users. And so on and so forth. Don't confuse "development can go quickly" with "development can't scale" -- Django scales very easily to both ends of the spectrum, whether you're just building a one-off internal app or a huge deployment. -- "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -- George Carlin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
On 10/6/06, Serg Kovrov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is Django meant to be used to create a sophisticated (as opposite to > rapid) web applications such as (for example) forums or e-shops? With > all bells and whistles, you know... Hello Serg, I'd encourage you to check out the list of the Django-powered sites on this page: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoPoweredSites You'll find a variety of sophisticated Web applications on that page. Also, check out our FAQ, in which we answer the questions about scaling and sophistication. http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/ Adrian -- Adrian Holovaty holovaty.com | djangoproject.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
> or work with. Django provides an incredibly simple framework with a > multitude of options for different caching and other low level > implementation decisions (which it achieves through decoupled code) In addition to Fascis's good comments, if you google for django shared-nothing you'll find hits that describe some of the underlying architecture that should allow multiple instances of Django to be put behind a load-balancer with minimal fuss. Thus, you should always be able to scale out by just throwing more machines/hardware at the problem. Some architectures require shared state information for session maint. and thus don't scale to the same degree. Just a few more thoughts (and one of the reasons I like Django). -tkc --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django's target applications?
Alot of marketing firms go through great lengths to discredit different projects. With some of the RAD projects, they hit it right on the head. There are alot of "RAD" frameworks out there that are easy and fast TTM, but they don't scale and they lack the necessary weight in the right areas. However, on the other hand, they fail to tell you about their own demons. Like the XML pushups you have to go through or architecture design decisions which you have to jump through to change or work with. Django provides an incredibly simple framework with a multitude of options for different caching and other low level implementation decisions (which it achieves through decoupled code) while keeping the design language at a "RAD" level. It's able to run on mod_python which hooks straight into the C api of the apache framework. It has 6 different caching mechanisms and an array of different schemes or Middleware for controlling it's operation all of which are able to manipulated and configured usually with less than 1-4 LOC. All the while it maintains a simple API for rolling your own solutions. It's also is based on python which has the added advantage of not being a pain in the ass to use and keeping a low footprint and profile. If I could describe it to somebody coming from a java background, it's like springframework with out the java... or the j2ee... or the xml Take a look for yourself. http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/ http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/middleware/ http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial1/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Django's target applications?
Hello, I'm new to Django (and Python) and have a few general questions. Is Django meant to be used to create a sophisticated (as opposite to rapid) web applications such as (for example) forums or e-shops? With all bells and whistles, you know... Does applications written on top of Django framework are scalable (for example - newsgroup application like this one (Google groups) and systems like eBay or Amazon)? My questions are both in terms of performance and domain logic. E.g. How easy/painful to maintain big Django-based project and how small/big is performance overhead in such applications. I'm asking because rapid web application development (RAD, RWAD?) is indeed cool (and in real life deadlines are quite issues), but I'm more interested in development of robust, maintainable, and scalable (mostly big) applications. Thanks. -- serg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
