Re: Django on a hosting service

[Todd Wilson]

Here is the latest communication from my hosting provider:

We will schedule mod_wsgi installation at the beginning of next
week. Please let us know what configuration options you would like
to have. System Administrators will review the list and if it
does not affect other customers on the server the changes will be
implemented.

The apache processes are started on the server with a -f referring to a
configuration file in my home directory, to which I don't have read
access.  There is also an htdocs subdirectory that is my document root.
 Their web interface allows me to change a couple of features of the
configuration (Server Name, Log Level, Directory Index, Timeout, Keep
Alive, Directory Listing), and start and stop the webserver, but that's
it.  It is natural to assume that, since this server has 241 users with
the same set-up I have, each with different domain names pointing to the
same IP address, there must be a virtual host declaration in this hidden
configuration file.

As I understand the quote above, I can propose any set of configuration
options for inclusion in this file, as long as it doesn't have a
negative effect on other users.  I also have to decide where to install
django (if they don't do it for me), where to put my django application
files, and where to put my site media.  I'd be grateful for any advice
on these topics.  Thanks,

--Todd

tiemonster wrote, on 12/12/2010 06:03 AM:
> Do you have access to any sort of virtualhost file? I honestly can't
> say I've ever tried it with an .htaccess. It would be rather
> inefficient because it would be read on every connection. I'm not
> sure, but I think that might force a reload on every connection.
> 
> -Mark
> 
> On Dec 11, 10:40 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
>> tiemonster wrote, on 12/11/2010 05:45 AM:
>>
>>> To use Django with Apache, it would be necessary to install *some*
>>> python interpreter into the server. I used Django on our shared
>>> hosting site using an .htaccess that called the mod_python handler in
>>> Django. However, mod_python was already installed. If they are
>>> offering to install mod_wsgi, then absolutely take them up on it. The
>>> performance difference between mod_wsgi and pretty much every other
>>> Apache arrangement cannot be understated.
>>
>> Thanks for clearing that up; I will definitely have them install
>> mod_wsgi.  But, will there be more for them to do than just installing
>> the module?  In other words, presuming that they are not already
>> familiar with mod_wsgi, will I also have to ask them make some further
>> modifications to the Apache config file, which I don't have access to,
>> or can I do the rest myself with an .htaccess file?
>>
>> --Todd> On Dec 9, 8:56 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
 A couple of weeks ago I sent the message quoted below to the list.  One
 reader (Daniel Roseman) replied and suggested that I might not need to
 ask the hosting service to install anything, quoting documentation from
 the FastCGI section, but it seemed to me (as explained in my reply on
 11/28/2010) that mod_fastcgi had to be installed, which it isn't (or at
 least it's not in /etc/apache2/mods-available/).
>>
 Anyway, I got through to the hosting provider's tech support with my
 request and got this reply:
>>
According to Django requirements (http://packages.debian.org/lenny
/python-django) and our experience there is no need to have
mod_python or mod_wsgi installed on the server.  So, you could
try to run Django web site on the server.  If any problem arises we
will install the mod_wsgi module.
>>
 I wonder if they are referring to the development server here.  Please
 correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from the documentation that a
 vanilla installation of Apache would not be sufficient to deploy
 production Django applications, except possibly through (old-fashioned)
 CGI:  some form of integration (mod_wsgi, mod_python, mod_fastcgi, ...)
 would be needed.  Is that right?
>>
 In any case, they are willing to install mod_wsgi.  Not being very
 familiar with Apache configuration, can someone tell me how much of the
 WSGI configuration mentioned in the Django docs for WSGI deployment
 (http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/modwsgi/) can be
 done with an .htaccess file, and how much I will have to ask them to do
 for me?
>>
 Thanks,
>>
 --Todd
>>
 Todd Wilson wrote, on 11/27/2010 07:20 PM:> I'm helping some friends 
 improve a portal website they have created
> using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
> of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
> the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
> with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
> keep it.  I've gotten ssh 

Re: Django on a hosting service

[tiemonster]

Do you have access to any sort of virtualhost file? I honestly can't
say I've ever tried it with an .htaccess. It would be rather
inefficient because it would be read on every connection. I'm not
sure, but I think that might force a reload on every connection.

-Mark

On Dec 11, 10:40 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
> tiemonster wrote, on 12/11/2010 05:45 AM:
>
> > To use Django with Apache, it would be necessary to install *some*
> > python interpreter into the server. I used Django on our shared
> > hosting site using an .htaccess that called the mod_python handler in
> > Django. However, mod_python was already installed. If they are
> > offering to install mod_wsgi, then absolutely take them up on it. The
> > performance difference between mod_wsgi and pretty much every other
> > Apache arrangement cannot be understated.
>
> Thanks for clearing that up; I will definitely have them install
> mod_wsgi.  But, will there be more for them to do than just installing
> the module?  In other words, presuming that they are not already
> familiar with mod_wsgi, will I also have to ask them make some further
> modifications to the Apache config file, which I don't have access to,
> or can I do the rest myself with an .htaccess file?
>
> --Todd> On Dec 9, 8:56 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
> >> A couple of weeks ago I sent the message quoted below to the list.  One
> >> reader (Daniel Roseman) replied and suggested that I might not need to
> >> ask the hosting service to install anything, quoting documentation from
> >> the FastCGI section, but it seemed to me (as explained in my reply on
> >> 11/28/2010) that mod_fastcgi had to be installed, which it isn't (or at
> >> least it's not in /etc/apache2/mods-available/).
>
> >> Anyway, I got through to the hosting provider's tech support with my
> >> request and got this reply:
>
> >>    According to Django requirements (http://packages.debian.org/lenny
> >>    /python-django) and our experience there is no need to have
> >>    mod_python or mod_wsgi installed on the server.  So, you could
> >>    try to run Django web site on the server.  If any problem arises we
> >>    will install the mod_wsgi module.
>
> >> I wonder if they are referring to the development server here.  Please
> >> correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from the documentation that a
> >> vanilla installation of Apache would not be sufficient to deploy
> >> production Django applications, except possibly through (old-fashioned)
> >> CGI:  some form of integration (mod_wsgi, mod_python, mod_fastcgi, ...)
> >> would be needed.  Is that right?
>
> >> In any case, they are willing to install mod_wsgi.  Not being very
> >> familiar with Apache configuration, can someone tell me how much of the
> >> WSGI configuration mentioned in the Django docs for WSGI deployment
> >> (http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/modwsgi/) can be
> >> done with an .htaccess file, and how much I will have to ask them to do
> >> for me?
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> --Todd
>
> >> Todd Wilson wrote, on 11/27/2010 07:20 PM:> I'm helping some friends 
> >> improve a portal website they have created
> >>> using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
> >>> of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
> >>> the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
> >>> with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
> >>> keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
> >>> a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
> >>> there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
> >>> the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
> >>> didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
> >>> like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.
>
> >>> My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
> >>> experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
> >>> could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
> >>> (and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
> >>> should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
> >>> service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:
>
> >>>    http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts
>
> >>> Thanks,
>
> >>> --Todd

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Re: Django on a hosting service

[Todd Wilson]

tiemonster wrote, on 12/11/2010 05:45 AM:
> To use Django with Apache, it would be necessary to install *some*
> python interpreter into the server. I used Django on our shared
> hosting site using an .htaccess that called the mod_python handler in
> Django. However, mod_python was already installed. If they are
> offering to install mod_wsgi, then absolutely take them up on it. The
> performance difference between mod_wsgi and pretty much every other
> Apache arrangement cannot be understated.

Thanks for clearing that up; I will definitely have them install
mod_wsgi.  But, will there be more for them to do than just installing
the module?  In other words, presuming that they are not already
familiar with mod_wsgi, will I also have to ask them make some further
modifications to the Apache config file, which I don't have access to,
or can I do the rest myself with an .htaccess file?

--Todd


> On Dec 9, 8:56 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
>> A couple of weeks ago I sent the message quoted below to the list.  One
>> reader (Daniel Roseman) replied and suggested that I might not need to
>> ask the hosting service to install anything, quoting documentation from
>> the FastCGI section, but it seemed to me (as explained in my reply on
>> 11/28/2010) that mod_fastcgi had to be installed, which it isn't (or at
>> least it's not in /etc/apache2/mods-available/).
>>
>> Anyway, I got through to the hosting provider's tech support with my
>> request and got this reply:
>>
>>According to Django requirements (http://packages.debian.org/lenny
>>/python-django) and our experience there is no need to have
>>mod_python or mod_wsgi installed on the server.  So, you could
>>try to run Django web site on the server.  If any problem arises we
>>will install the mod_wsgi module.
>>
>> I wonder if they are referring to the development server here.  Please
>> correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from the documentation that a
>> vanilla installation of Apache would not be sufficient to deploy
>> production Django applications, except possibly through (old-fashioned)
>> CGI:  some form of integration (mod_wsgi, mod_python, mod_fastcgi, ...)
>> would be needed.  Is that right?
>>
>> In any case, they are willing to install mod_wsgi.  Not being very
>> familiar with Apache configuration, can someone tell me how much of the
>> WSGI configuration mentioned in the Django docs for WSGI deployment
>> (http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/modwsgi/) can be
>> done with an .htaccess file, and how much I will have to ask them to do
>> for me?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Todd
>>
>> Todd Wilson wrote, on 11/27/2010 07:20 PM:> I'm helping some friends improve 
>> a portal website they have created
>>> using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
>>> of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
>>> the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
>>> with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
>>> keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
>>> a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
>>> there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
>>> the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
>>> didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
>>> like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.
>>
>>> My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
>>> experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
>>> could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
>>> (and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
>>> should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
>>> service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:
>>
>>>http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>
>>> --Todd
> 


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Re: Django on a hosting service

[tiemonster]

To use Django with Apache, it would be necessary to install *some*
python interpreter into the server. I used Django on our shared
hosting site using an .htaccess that called the mod_python handler in
Django. However, mod_python was already installed. If they are
offering to install mod_wsgi, then absolutely take them up on it. The
performance difference between mod_wsgi and pretty much every other
Apache arrangement cannot be understated.

-Mark


On Dec 9, 8:56 pm, Todd Wilson  wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I sent the message quoted below to the list.  One
> reader (Daniel Roseman) replied and suggested that I might not need to
> ask the hosting service to install anything, quoting documentation from
> the FastCGI section, but it seemed to me (as explained in my reply on
> 11/28/2010) that mod_fastcgi had to be installed, which it isn't (or at
> least it's not in /etc/apache2/mods-available/).
>
> Anyway, I got through to the hosting provider's tech support with my
> request and got this reply:
>
>    According to Django requirements (http://packages.debian.org/lenny
>    /python-django) and our experience there is no need to have
>    mod_python or mod_wsgi installed on the server.  So, you could
>    try to run Django web site on the server.  If any problem arises we
>    will install the mod_wsgi module.
>
> I wonder if they are referring to the development server here.  Please
> correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from the documentation that a
> vanilla installation of Apache would not be sufficient to deploy
> production Django applications, except possibly through (old-fashioned)
> CGI:  some form of integration (mod_wsgi, mod_python, mod_fastcgi, ...)
> would be needed.  Is that right?
>
> In any case, they are willing to install mod_wsgi.  Not being very
> familiar with Apache configuration, can someone tell me how much of the
> WSGI configuration mentioned in the Django docs for WSGI deployment
> (http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/modwsgi/) can be
> done with an .htaccess file, and how much I will have to ask them to do
> for me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Todd
>
> Todd Wilson wrote, on 11/27/2010 07:20 PM:> I'm helping some friends improve 
> a portal website they have created
> > using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
> > of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
> > the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
> > with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
> > keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
> > a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
> > there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
> > the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
> > didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
> > like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.
>
> > My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
> > experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
> > could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
> > (and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
> > should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
> > service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:
>
> >    http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > --Todd

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Re: Django on a hosting service

[Todd Wilson]

A couple of weeks ago I sent the message quoted below to the list.  One
reader (Daniel Roseman) replied and suggested that I might not need to
ask the hosting service to install anything, quoting documentation from
the FastCGI section, but it seemed to me (as explained in my reply on
11/28/2010) that mod_fastcgi had to be installed, which it isn't (or at
least it's not in /etc/apache2/mods-available/).

Anyway, I got through to the hosting provider's tech support with my
request and got this reply:

   According to Django requirements (http://packages.debian.org/lenny
   /python-django) and our experience there is no need to have
   mod_python or mod_wsgi installed on the server.  So, you could
   try to run Django web site on the server.  If any problem arises we
   will install the mod_wsgi module.

I wonder if they are referring to the development server here.  Please
correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from the documentation that a
vanilla installation of Apache would not be sufficient to deploy
production Django applications, except possibly through (old-fashioned)
CGI:  some form of integration (mod_wsgi, mod_python, mod_fastcgi, ...)
would be needed.  Is that right?

In any case, they are willing to install mod_wsgi.  Not being very
familiar with Apache configuration, can someone tell me how much of the
WSGI configuration mentioned in the Django docs for WSGI deployment
(http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/modwsgi/) can be
done with an .htaccess file, and how much I will have to ask them to do
for me?

Thanks,

--Todd

Todd Wilson wrote, on 11/27/2010 07:20 PM:
> I'm helping some friends improve a portal website they have created
> using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
> of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
> the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
> with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
> keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
> a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
> there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
> the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
> didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
> like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.
> 
> My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
> experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
> could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
> (and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
> should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
> service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:
> 
>http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Todd
> 
> 


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Re: Django on a hosting service

[Todd Wilson]

In response to my question about deploying Django on a shared hosting
service that doesn't seem to have the necessary Apache modules
installed, ...

Daniel Roseman wrote, on 11/28/2010 02:10 AM:
> I've never tried this, but if I understand the documentation here
> correctly:
> http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/fastcgi/#running-django-on-a-shared-hosting-provider-with-apache
> you shouldn't need anything in particular. It looks like it's possible
> just to install flup locally as part of your Django install, and
> editing .htaccess to get Apache to rewrite requests so that they go
> there.

I saw this, too, but worried that it would still require apache to have
mod_fastcgi installed.  Otherwise, how would apache know what to do with

   AddHandler fastcgi-script .fcgi

in the .htaccess file?  If it is indeed possible to do this, I would be
interested in hearing from someone who has done it.  How did you do the
local install of Django?  And how did you set up the paths and site
settings?

> Otherwise, if you do have to move, you could certainly do worse than
> Webfaction.

Yes, that was the Plan B that I have been looking into.  I'm pleased to
see that it coincides with your recommendation :-).

--Todd

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Re: Django on a hosting service

[Daniel Roseman]

On Nov 28, 3:20 am, Todd Wilson  wrote:
> I'm helping some friends improve a portal website they have created
> using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
> of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
> the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
> with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
> keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
> a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
> there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
> the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
> didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
> like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.
>
> My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
> experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
> could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
> (and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
> should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
> service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:
>
>    http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Todd

I've never tried this, but if I understand the documentation here
correctly:
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/howto/deployment/fastcgi/#running-django-on-a-shared-hosting-provider-with-apache
you shouldn't need anything in particular. It looks like it's possible
just to install flup locally as part of your Django install, and
editing .htaccess to get Apache to rewrite requests so that they go
there.

Otherwise, if you do have to move, you could certainly do worse than
Webfaction.
--
DR.

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Django on a hosting service

[Todd Wilson]

I'm helping some friends improve a portal website they have created
using PHP, but which would be ideal for Django, in the sense that a lot
of the work they've already done, and would like to do as they improve
the site, would be easy to do in Django.  They have a hosting contract
with Intermedia (http://www.intermedia.net/) and would very much like to
keep it.  I've gotten ssh access to their server and went poking around
a bit, and, although python is available on the server (version 2.5.2),
there doesn't seem to be any support for WSGI, mod_python, FastCGI, or
the other deployment options listed in the documentation (at least I
didn't see them in /etc/apache2/mods-available/), and it doesn't look
like they support other frameworks (Rails, Drupal, Zope) either.

My question:  I've always set up my own servers and don't have any
experience with web hosting;  is there a minimal sort of request that I
could make to Intermedia that, if granted, would make it possible for me
(and presumably others) to deploy a Django site using their service, or
should I just try to convince my friends to find a different hosting
service?  It seems like there would be many to choose from:

   http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoFriendlyWebHosts

Thanks,

--Todd


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