Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis

[Rick Moen]

Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de):

> I still have a mixture of irritation and amazement, that systemd is
> considered libre software yet causes so many issues and
> security/stability flaws. amazing yet terrifying...

Nothing at all prevents libre software from being absolutely wretched.
The term merely denotes right to fork code and use it for any
purpose without fee, as detailed in your choice of 'free software'
definitional document (FSF's or Debian's being the usual two, either
being for practical purposes same as OSD, modulo marketing focus).

> > Everyone: John Hughes has history here. See the following:
> >
> > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/d...@20151218.114434.e5e44af4.en.html

His point, there, of Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton having had mistaken
understanding of what libsystemd0 is, is IMO well taken.  À chacun son
goût, but personally I'd soul-search if I (often) found myself in LKCL
company on said gent's causes.

It's difficult to read nuance over mailing list postings, but if
Steve's phrase 'has history here' implies above-cited page of posts
shows Mr. Hughes somehow worthy of being viewed with alarm, FWIW I'm not
seeing it.  OTOH, Steve's view might well be supported elsethread (or
this is just a matter of opinion, which also happens).

(Disclaimer:  Haven't bothered following Mr. Hughes's recent whatevers.
Just got my attention drawn by first quotation cited, whisch impelled me
to don my licensing-geek hat, and speak.)

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Re: [DNG] ID Quantique "Quantum" PCI-e RNG's - does anyone have more info?

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 10/27/2017 10:35 AM, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:


Olaf Meeuwissen writes:

I have used the `haveged` package to keep my /dev/urandom "topped up"
when randomizing disks.  Greatly shortened the time needed to fill my
disks.  No idea about the quality of randomness, though.


I looked at it now. It seems to observe some real entropy, but I think 
they overestimate the amount. Some of the events they count show up in 
some/many counters, and I don't see any attempt to estimate or account 
for covariance.


So, yes, good stuff IMHO, but I don't think it's actually hundreds of 
megabits per second. Still, even 1kbps of real entropy isn't bad.
I can't imagine it being equivalent to a (non-intel/amd) hardware source 
of entropy when it comes to quality of entropy - have there been any 
quality analysis performed?


It is a shame IDQ is the only vendor with a PCI-e device, and also the 
only vendor it seems that offers something quality and obtainable (I 
can't find an open source hardware entropy device that is really for 
sale right away

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Re: [DNG] gpg 2.2.x devuan jessie no TOFU TLS

[Werner Koch]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:00, fulanope...@cryptolab.net said:

> checking for LIBGNUTLS... no

The minimal requirement is GNUTLS 3.0 - please check that you have the
3.x -dev package installed.  You should also consult config.log to check
why GNUTLS was not found.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner

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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis

[zap]

On 10/27/2017 10:34 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 19:39:53 -0400
> zap  wrote:
>
>> On 10/27/2017 04:51 AM, John Hughes wrote:
>>> On 27/10/17 07:21, Steve Litt wrote:  
 No Debian fan, Chris Lamb or otherwise,  
>>> Debian fan? He's one of the people who build the distribution Devuan
>>> is  based on.  He's not a "fan".
> If a developer on a project ISN'T a fan of the software he's
> developing, you have a bad situation and you're going to have bad
> software.
That sounds about right. Although... I wonder then why systemd is so
crappy considering the devs love their pet...

Complexity I guess overrides how much you love your pet. and other
factors...

I still have a mixture of irritation and amazement, that systemd is
considered libre software yet causes so many issues and
security/stability flaws. amazing yet terrifying...

> Everyone: John Hughes has history here. See the following:
>
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/d...@20151218.114434.e5e44af4.en.html
>
> And here's what I wrote after he posted his fiftieth prop-systemd or
> ambi-systemd on DNG in a period of a couple days.
>
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151219.183351.831454aa.en.html
>  
Interesting... so he is a troll.  A pity he isn't even an entertaining
one...
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt 
> October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 19:39:53 -0400
zap  wrote:

> On 10/27/2017 04:51 AM, John Hughes wrote:
> > On 27/10/17 07:21, Steve Litt wrote:  
> >> No Debian fan, Chris Lamb or otherwise,  
> >
> > Debian fan? He's one of the people who build the distribution Devuan
> > is  based on.  He's not a "fan".

If a developer on a project ISN'T a fan of the software he's
developing, you have a bad situation and you're going to have bad
software.

Everyone: John Hughes has history here. See the following:

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/d...@20151218.114434.e5e44af4.en.html

And here's what I wrote after he posted his fiftieth prop-systemd or
ambi-systemd on DNG in a period of a couple days.

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151219.183351.831454aa.en.html
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 19:34:52 -0400
zap  wrote:

> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=733915
> >
> > Only a RFP, not an ITP.
> >
> > Everyone wants somebody else to do the work.  
> Truthfully, some don't know how to do to the work... also.

I'm the original poster of the thread renamed "Runit for Devuan", and I
don't understand this email at all. What does a debian bug about s6
have to do with my offer to be one of a two person team to bring a
runit package to Devuan?

By the way, anyone here good at Devuan packaging and also would like a
runit package? I could probably put together a Devuan/runit Vagrant
file, from which we could make a package.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis

[zap]

On 10/27/2017 04:51 AM, John Hughes wrote:
> On 27/10/17 07:21, Steve Litt wrote:
>> No Debian fan, Chris Lamb or otherwise,
>
> Debian fan? He's one of the people who build the distribution Devuan
> is  based on.  He's not a "fan".
>
That is very impressive indeed. I would have never guessed that he was
that skilled at development.

I wonder if he uses sid... or ceres probably...  I assume he uses one of
those. :)
>> They're not stupid: They know how much they hurt Linux
>> interchangeable parts
>> with their rush to judgment on systemd.
>
> You seem to have some difficulty in understanding that people can
> disagree with you.
I dunno systemd was very rush, rushed... But yeah, flaming rarely in
fact I don't know any time that ever solves a problem...

;)

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Re: [DNG] Chris Lamb = Good Maintainer (Was: Debian testing drop redis)

[Jaromil]

thanks Patrick,

your reports have been most precious to this thread IMHO

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017, Patrick Meade wrote:

> On 10/26/2017 09:36 AM, John Hughes wrote:
> > Frankly it seems that some people have been rather fast to assume bad
> > faith and very few people who commented either knew what they were
> > talking about or made the slightest effort to actually understand what
> > Chris Lamb had done.
> 
> I opened a pull request with Chris Lamb to discuss reverting his changes to
> the sysvinit scripts in redis-server and redis-sentinel.
> 
> We agreed that the functionality is obscure, affected users may be very hard
> to find, and any users who are affected can be helped with a reasonable
> amount of effort.

my training in hermeneutics and epistemology rings a bell about this
being the wrong general attitude about changes and regressions, but
for now I just rest on the fact redis "just works" in Devuan ASCII
(using sysvinit) and that, as I stated at the beginning, this should
be an issue addressed by upstream rather than us. Upstream has been
warned. Lets all keep our eyes peeled for this and other packages.

ciao


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Re: [DNG] OT: Patching De*an based systems at scale

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:50:36AM -0500, dev wrote:
> On 10/26/2017 04:53 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > You may additionally install apt-listchanges and configure it to show
> > changelogs, that will fetch relevant (and only those!) changelog entries of
> > packages you're about to install.
> 
> Thank you for that information. Is the email and apt-listchanges the
> only way? apt-listchanges sends notifications from every system. That's
> 60 duplicate emails in my case, for many packages such as OpenSSH.

"dpkg-reconfigure apt-listchanges", it has quite a few options to alter how
notifications are presented.  I for one consider mail to be uncomfortable
here, as knowing what was installed only after the fact is pretty pointless
(there's dpkg.log too), thus on systems where I have apt-listchanges
installed it's configured to use pager, letting me ^C if I want to abort
the upgrade.

> The DSA mail cuts down the noise but I'm assuming I may be getting
> mailed about packages that do not pertain to any systems I'm running,
> correct?

Yeah but the mail volume is so low I don't consider this a problem.  And you
get them once no matter how many systems you admin.

> I'm trying to avoid what I always end up doing; a perl screen scraper
> which I cross-reference with apt-get upgrade --dry-run and then parse
> the pertinent package info into a CSV file that can everyone wants
> emailed to them, for each server... maybe this is the only way ?

I'd parse "apt-cache policy" instead, it's much easier to read.  Or even
"dpkg --get-selections" so you have the set of packages only, which can then
be used to filter notifications centrally.

But then, the quality of Debian security updates has been so high (at least
for server packages) that I'm not paid well enough to pore through every
changed line.  I somewhat dislike completely unattended upgrades, thus I run
a script that does, for every machine, serialized: apt-get update && apt-get
-y upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get clean.  Doing it serially
rather than in parallel means I can see that upgrading the first machine ran
into trouble; extra time it takes doesn't matter as I do other work on the
other monitor/terminal in the meantime.


Meow!
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Re: [DNG] OT: Patching De*an based systems at scale

[dev]

On 10/26/2017 04:53 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:


> You're not insane enough to run an unreleased version on a production
> server, right? 

I would never do that! ;)
Seriously though, I might do it in a test environment, so good to know.


> You may additionally install apt-listchanges and configure it to show
> changelogs, that will fetch relevant (and only those!) changelog entries of
> packages you're about to install.

Thank you for that information. Is the email and apt-listchanges the
only way? apt-listchanges sends notifications from every system. That's
60 duplicate emails in my case, for many packages such as OpenSSH.

The DSA mail cuts down the noise but I'm assuming I may be getting
mailed about packages that do not pertain to any systems I'm running,
correct?

I'm trying to avoid what I always end up doing; a perl screen scraper
which I cross-reference with apt-get upgrade --dry-run and then parse
the pertinent package info into a CSV file that can everyone wants
emailed to them, for each server... maybe this is the only way ?
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Re: [DNG] gpg 2.2.x devuan jessie no TOFU TLS

[Fulano Diego Perez]

Werner Koch:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:00, fulanope...@cryptolab.net said:
> 
>> checking for LIBGNUTLS... no
> 
> The minimal requirement is GNUTLS 3.0 - please check that you have the
> 3.x -dev package installed.  You should also consult config.log to check
> why GNUTLS was not found.
> 
> 
> Salam-Shalom,
> 
>Werner

installing pkg-config found them !
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Re: [DNG] ID Quantique "Quantum" PCI-e RNG's - does anyone have more info?

[Arnt Gulbrandsen]

Olaf Meeuwissen writes:

I have used the `haveged` package to keep my /dev/urandom "topped up"
when randomizing disks.  Greatly shortened the time needed to fill my
disks.  No idea about the quality of randomness, though.


I looked at it now. It seems to observe some real entropy, but I think they 
overestimate the amount. Some of the events they count show up in some/many 
counters, and I don't see any attempt to estimate or account for 
covariance.


So, yes, good stuff IMHO, but I don't think it's actually hundreds of 
megabits per second. Still, even 1kbps of real entropy isn't bad.


Arnt

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Re: [DNG] Converting srpms to debs

[John Crisp]

On 26/10/17 20:30, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote:

>>
>> I need to be able to hack some of the source files due to different
>> file paths, and then build as debs.
>>
> According to the man page from alien
> 
> 
> -g, --generate
>    Generate a temporary directory suitable for building a package
>    from, but do not actually create the package.
> 

Ok thanks.



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[DNG] regressions in gnome applications after upgrade from jessie to ascii

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi all!

I upgraded my testsystem from jessie to ascii. Everything went smooth, TDE + 
devuan running fine. But I oberserved some regressions in GNOME applications, 
espeially "terminator":

- The applications set the working directory to the "~". This is quite a bad 
surprise, as it breaks compatibility in a very bad way.

- Scrolling with mouse only works when the scrollbar is visible. Make the 
scrollbar invisible, change focus to different application and back again, and 
mouse scrolling des not work anymore.

- When an application can run more than one instance then when starting a 
second instance things get interesting: Old/Expected behaviour: Instead of 
showing the window of the new instance on the current desktop on top of the 
window stack and giving focus to that window and doing nothing else. 
New/Surprising behaviour: New window is placed on the active desktop, then the 
desktop is switched to the desktop of the first instance of the application, 
the window of the first instance is brought on top of the window stack, 
unfocused - the focus stays with the second window wherever that may be.

I'm sure there are more hidden eastereggs, but these are bad enough to make me 
want to drop all GNOME applications :-(


Nik



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Re: [DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Donnerstag, 26. Oktober 2017 schrieb John Morris:
> On Tue, 2017-10-24 at 09:01 +0200, marc wrote:
> 
> > Secureboot is designed for them, not for you. You might come
> > up with a really exotic use case, where it might help you. But
> > if you look at it carefully enough, it relies on secureboot
> > redefining root to something weaker than what we want, and
> > running some complex infrastructure which you are unaware
> > of behind it. If you want a weak root, run a virtual machine 
> > instead.
> 
> Not at all.  Right now if you install Fedora or Ubuntu you get the
> protection of secure boot.  You already trust them if you are installing
> their OS, correct?  Everyone signs the kernel package at the package
> manager stage so we can all use untrusted mirrors.  So now they also put
> a signature on a grub-efi package with a key signed by the UEFI CA that
> embeds their company keys.  Now your system validates that GRUB is clean
> and it checks the kernel hasn't been tampered with before executing
> either of them,
> 
> Eventually Debian will begin shipping signed grub-efi and kernel
> packages.  Devuan would have to pay $100 to get a signed grub-efi of its
> own (with a Devuan kernel signing key embedded) to ship kernels built by
> them if they don't just pass on the Debian grub and kernel packages
> unmodified.  That is it, one can argue how much security benefit it
> brings but it is non-zero and requires minimal effort to achieve.  I
> think you have to pay again if your grub-efi package changes but it
> doesn't seem to churn much.
> 

Maybe I did get something wrong, but some years ago the lin foundation provided 
a sined bootloader for secure boot:
https://blog.hansenpartnership.com/linux-foundation-secure-boot-system-released/

There's also a signed "shim.efi" and some others, that boots any kernel you 
like: https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/secureboot.html

Just neither debian nor devuan provide an installer image, that uses these.

But the fundamental problem of secure boot persists: do you trust your bios 
vendor? (I don't.)

Nik

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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

Oh, yes, the last thing in the runit changelog is:

runit (2.1.2-9.2) unstable; urgency=medium

  * non-maintainer upload
  * re-add /sbin/runit{,-init} to runit package so it remains possible to
use runit as PID 1

 -- Daniel Kahn Gillmor   Wed, 31 May 2017 12:44:38 
-0400

So the runit-init package no longer exists, but if you want to use runit 
as init you can do it manually.


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Re: [DNG] Runit for Devuan: was Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

On 27/10/17 07:29, Steve Litt wrote:

U mean runit's author/upstream maintainer, or do you mean Debian's
maintainer for runit? Where does this information come from?


Debian's runit maintainer, Dmitry Bogatov, was arrested, accused of 
"preparing to organize mass disorder" and making "public calls for 
terrorist activit".  He runs a TOR exit node and is accused of posting 
things that were probably posted by some other TOR user.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/04/access-now-and-eff-condemn-arrest-tor-node-operator-dmitry-bogatov-russia


The last time I downloaded, compiled and installed
runit it worked just fine.
The problem is with runit-init, not runit.  runit is still in Debian 
(and, hence, Devuan).


The problem is Debian bug 861536 -- installing runit-init makes it 
impossible to shutdown or reboot until the next boot.


('cos runit-init removes the running inits shutdown/reboot logic and 
installs its own, but the current init is still running and so the 
runit-init versions of shutdown/reboot don't work).




If there's a problem with Debian's runit maintainer, no sweat:
Pair me up with somebody who is good with making packages, and
we'll create a Devuan runit package much better than Debian's old
one (which was kind of difficult the last time I tried it).


Your first job would be to fix bug 861536.  If you can do that maybe you 
could get runit-init back into Debian.



If runit's author/upstream author has had bad stuff happen to him to th
extent that runit isn't trusted anymore, s6 is a fairly close
replacement: A little more complex and a little more capable. AFAIK
s6's maintainer is on the job every day improving s6, and once again,
someone who knows how to build Devuan package plus me plus a little bit
of guidance from s6' upstream would produce a Devuan package.


https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=733915

Only a RFP, not an ITP.

Everyone wants somebody else to do the work.

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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis

[John Hughes]

On 27/10/17 07:21, Steve Litt wrote:

No Debian fan, Chris Lamb or otherwise,


Debian fan? He's one of the people who build the distribution Devuan is  
based on.  He's not a "fan".



They're not stupid: They know how much they hurt Linux interchangeable parts
with their rush to judgment on systemd.


You seem to have some difficulty in understanding that people can 
disagree with you.

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Re: [DNG] Error after upgrade debian wheezy to devuan jessie...

[Thomas Besser]

Am 25.10.2017 um 13:19 schrieb Thomas Besser:
> Am 25.10.2017 um 12:41 schrieb Olaf Meeuwissen:
>> The trigger definition for libc-bin is in
>>
>>   /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc-bin.triggers
>>
>> On my machine it says
>>
>>   $ cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc-bin.triggers
>>   interest ldconfig

The same here on my machines.

>> I am not sure what exactly this does, but I *guess* it triggers updating
>> of /etc/ld.so.cache by running the ldconfig command in some way.
>>
>> IIRC, the error you posted earlier looked a lot like it came from a
>> piece of Perl code but I have no idea where it would come from.  My
>> /sbin/ldconfig is a shell script wrapper that handles triggers via
>> dpkg-trigger, an ELF binary, and passes the buck to /sbin/ldconfig.real,
>> also an ELF binary.  Both are unlikely to be directly responsible for
>> the error message you posted.

The same here.

> I have created a base image of debian wheezy earlier. I will do an
> upgrade there now and see if I can reproduce this error there too.

Upgrade of package "tzdata" today. Here the result:

* The 3 productive machines got the same error as before.

On the upgraded (debian wheezy -> devuan jessie) vm with only basic
packages I could not reproduce this error.

Conclusion: it has something to do with a package, which is installed in
the 3 machines and not on the basic one.

I will try to diff the installed packages lists...

Regards
Thomas

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Re: [DNG] gpg 2.2.x devuan jessie no TOFU TLS

[Fulano Diego Perez]

Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
> On Fri 2017-10-27 01:00:36 +1100, Fulano Diego Perez wrote:
>> cannot work this out
>>
>> installed sqlite3 and gnutls available packages and -dev packages
> 
> what versions of these packages did you install?  can you provide more
> explicit details?

aside from below i installed latest gnu package dependencies

Package: libgnutls28-dev
New: yes
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Multi-Arch: same
Version: 3.3.8-6+deb8u7
Priority: optional
Section: libdevel
Maintainer: Debian GnuTLS Maintainers

Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 2,957 k
Depends: libgnutls-deb0-28 (= 3.3.8-6+deb8u7), libgnutlsxx28 (=
3.3.8-6+deb8u7), nettle-dev (>= 2.5), libc6-dev | libc-dev,
 zlib1g-dev, libtasn1-6-dev (>= 3.9), libp11-kit-dev,
libgnutls-openssl27 (= 3.3.8-6+deb8u7)
Suggests: gnutls-doc, gnutls-bin, guile-gnutls
Conflicts: gnutls-dev
Replaces: gnutls-dev
Provides: gnutls-dev, libgnutls-openssl-dev
Description: GNU TLS library - development files

Package: libsqlite3-dev
New: yes
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Multi-Arch: same
Version: 3.8.7.1-1+deb8u2
Priority: optional
Section: libdevel
Maintainer: Laszlo Boszormenyi (GCS) 
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 1,542 k
Depends: libsqlite3-0 (= 3.8.7.1-1+deb8u2), libc6-dev
Suggests: sqlite3-doc
Description: SQLite 3 development files

> 
> the debian packages build fine on stretch and later, but i'm reluctant
> to try to backport them to jessie myself these days.  Such a port would
> introduce too many platform-level incompatibilities.
> 
>  --dkg
> 
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Re: [DNG] gpg 2.2.x devuan jessie no TOFU TLS

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Fri 2017-10-27 01:00:36 +1100, Fulano Diego Perez wrote:
> cannot work this out
>
> installed sqlite3 and gnutls available packages and -dev packages

what versions of these packages did you install?  can you provide more
explicit details?

the debian packages build fine on stretch and later, but i'm reluctant
to try to backport them to jessie myself these days.  Such a port would
introduce too many platform-level incompatibilities.

 --dkg


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