Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
On Sat, 11 May 2019 17:22:45 +0100 s@po wrote: > In the past Debian Wheezy had a tool for that, called 'chkconfig', it > was a lot used in the Datacenter.. # Adding a Service 'atsd': > chkconfig --add atsd; ln -s /etc/sv/daemonname /var/service/daemonname > # Enable the service in several Runlevels: > chkconfig --level 12345 atss on; Run levels are fairly foreign everywhere but sysvinit. Probably doable with runit. > # Start the Service: > /etc/init.d/atsd start; sv start daemonname > # Stop the Service: > /etc/init.d/atsd stop; sv stop daemonname > # Disable the service in requested runlevels: > chkconfig --level 12345 atsd off; Runlevels why? > # Remove the Service: > chkconfig --del atsd; rm /var/service/daemonname SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
On 5/11/19 4:40 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Martin Steigerwald - 11.05.19, 11:26: >> Hi. >> >> Now that the proof of concept is out, I am thinking about extending it >> a little bit. >> >> - make is a package >> - make "install-or-update.sh" into "/usr/bin/userservices" with the >> following actions: >> - install: Sets up userservices for the user >> - update: Updates it >> - remove: Removes i > > - remove: Removes user services from user directory completely (after > confirmation) > Martin, et al., I think it was Steve who brought up the idea that there are different places to enable user services, and I'd like to posit there are at least two different kinds of user services: * per-user (for all sessions) * per-session On my machine I use runit to start a per-user tor and per-use privoxy; all my sessions share those services. On a per-session basis I see things like pulseaudio (if you use it), ssh-agent, gpg-agent, screen locker, and other services that you would shut down when a session closes. You can start the per-user services either in /etc/services (with runit strting runsvdir) or as a lazy-instantiation per user on first login. These serives would persist and be shared across user sessions. You can start per-session services in .xsession or .xinitrc, or .bashrc and .bash_logout. So I would recommend thinking about having two sets of services, per-user and per-session, and perhaps having "uservice --user" and "uservice --session" to manage each different kind. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
Didier Kryn - 13.05.19, 11:49: > Le 13/05/2019 à 10:47, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : > > s@po, tux...@sapo.pt - 11.05.19, 18:22: > >> Hello All, > >> > >> On Sat, 11 May 2019 11:26:12 +0200 > >> > >> Martin Steigerwald wrote: > >>> Hi. > >>> > >>> Now that the proof of concept is out, I am thinking about > >>> extending > >>> it a little bit. > > > > […] > > > >>> What do you think about that? > > > > […] > > > >> In the past Debian Wheezy had a tool for that, called 'chkconfig', > >> it > >> was a lot used in the Datacenter.. > >> > >> # Adding a Service 'atsd': > >>chkconfig --add atsd; > >> > >> # Enable the service in several Runlevels: > >>chkconfig --level 12345 atss on; > > > > AFAIK that is a tool coming from RHEL/CentOS/Fedora that was dropped > > from Debian for some reason. It only works with system-wide services > > as far as I am aware of. > > > >> And other funcionalities, like listing the services and so on.. > >> It was a very helpfull tool. > >> > >> In the absence of it( I don't know why it was removed .. ), your > >> tool > >> seems to come to replace it, BUT for users only? :) > > > > I do not know why it was removed. > > > > And yes, my approach is just for user services. I already thought > > about making it a generic frontend for runit/s6, in order to also > > allow it to handle system services, in order to allow > > starting/stopping teamviewer services. But on one hand we have the > > init system with its tools for that already and on the other how to > > handle permissions would be something to be really clear about. > > > > Also I'd rather get rid of teamviewer than to provide support for > > it. I use it very rarely for support cases from customer of my > > employee.> > >> I think it would be nice to call it like 'uservice', instead of > >> 'u[ser]service[s]', which is a lot bigger name, or a alias called > >> 'uservice', since 'service' is also another tool, to deal with.. > >> services. > > > > I bet I'd make that a symlink or so, so the tool could work as > > either > > 'uservice' or 'userservice'. 'uservice' also has 'user' and > > 'service' in it. I also thought about just 'us' but Z-Shell would > > like to correct that to 'su' and… those really short command names > > are better reserved for commands that the likely user calls often, > > such as 'cp', 'mv' and so on. > > > > Ciao, > > Why not call it Userd ? It can compare with Systemd. It's made > for the user, and user-friendly, and it does one thing, the thing it > claims to do. Nice idea. But it is no daemon. It uses a (kind of) daemon, runit as in 'runsvdir' or in the future probably alternatively s6, but itself it is none. It is just a script + alias (for now) that makes using runit for user services easy for users. But yeah, I think I like to keep it in a way that it does one thing well, flexibly and efficiently. -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
Le 13/05/2019 à 10:47, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : s@po, tux...@sapo.pt - 11.05.19, 18:22: Hello All, On Sat, 11 May 2019 11:26:12 +0200 Martin Steigerwald wrote: Hi. Now that the proof of concept is out, I am thinking about extending it a little bit. […] What do you think about that? […] In the past Debian Wheezy had a tool for that, called 'chkconfig', it was a lot used in the Datacenter.. # Adding a Service 'atsd': chkconfig --add atsd; # Enable the service in several Runlevels: chkconfig --level 12345 atss on; AFAIK that is a tool coming from RHEL/CentOS/Fedora that was dropped from Debian for some reason. It only works with system-wide services as far as I am aware of. And other funcionalities, like listing the services and so on.. It was a very helpfull tool. In the absence of it( I don't know why it was removed .. ), your tool seems to come to replace it, BUT for users only? :) I do not know why it was removed. And yes, my approach is just for user services. I already thought about making it a generic frontend for runit/s6, in order to also allow it to handle system services, in order to allow starting/stopping teamviewer services. But on one hand we have the init system with its tools for that already and on the other how to handle permissions would be something to be really clear about. Also I'd rather get rid of teamviewer than to provide support for it. I use it very rarely for support cases from customer of my employee. I think it would be nice to call it like 'uservice', instead of 'u[ser]service[s]', which is a lot bigger name, or a alias called 'uservice', since 'service' is also another tool, to deal with.. services. I bet I'd make that a symlink or so, so the tool could work as either 'uservice' or 'userservice'. 'uservice' also has 'user' and 'service' in it. I also thought about just 'us' but Z-Shell would like to correct that to 'su' and… those really short command names are better reserved for commands that the likely user calls often, such as 'cp', 'mv' and so on. Ciao, Why not call it Userd ? It can compare with Systemd. It's made for the user, and user-friendly, and it does one thing, the thing it claims to do. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
s@po, tux...@sapo.pt - 11.05.19, 18:22: > Hello All, > > On Sat, 11 May 2019 11:26:12 +0200 > > Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Hi. > > > > Now that the proof of concept is out, I am thinking about extending > > it a little bit. […] > > What do you think about that? […] > In the past Debian Wheezy had a tool for that, called 'chkconfig', it > was a lot used in the Datacenter.. > # Adding a Service 'atsd': > chkconfig --add atsd; > # Enable the service in several Runlevels: > chkconfig --level 12345 atss on; AFAIK that is a tool coming from RHEL/CentOS/Fedora that was dropped from Debian for some reason. It only works with system-wide services as far as I am aware of. > And other funcionalities, like listing the services and so on.. > It was a very helpfull tool. > > In the absence of it( I don't know why it was removed .. ), your tool > seems to come to replace it, BUT for users only? :) I do not know why it was removed. And yes, my approach is just for user services. I already thought about making it a generic frontend for runit/s6, in order to also allow it to handle system services, in order to allow starting/stopping teamviewer services. But on one hand we have the init system with its tools for that already and on the other how to handle permissions would be something to be really clear about. Also I'd rather get rid of teamviewer than to provide support for it. I use it very rarely for support cases from customer of my employee. > I think it would be nice to call it like 'uservice', instead of > 'u[ser]service[s]', which is a lot bigger name, or a alias called > 'uservice', since 'service' is also another tool, to deal with.. > services. I bet I'd make that a symlink or so, so the tool could work as either 'uservice' or 'userservice'. 'uservice' also has 'user' and 'service' in it. I also thought about just 'us' but Z-Shell would like to correct that to 'su' and… those really short command names are better reserved for commands that the likely user calls often, such as 'cp', 'mv' and so on. Ciao, -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [RFC] User services
Hi. Thank you, Hendrik for your feedback. Hendrik Boom - 11.05.19, 16:45: > On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 11:26:12AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Now that the proof of concept is out, I am thinking about extending > > it a little bit. > > You use the spellings user-services, userservices, and userservice. Yep, that is right. > Is there actually a difference in meaning between these? Or > conventinos that have to be used in different paces? If not, perhaps > you should pick one spelling and stick with it. Well I thought using 'userservices' for doing the stuff that affects all user services, i.e. install/update them to home directory and remove them. And 'userservice' to act with single user services like enable and disable them. But OTOH that is not really necessary. One script that does it all would do. I'd call it 'userservice' as using a dash in a command name feels awkward to me. For the repo name I went with what Evilham suggested, i.e. 'user-services'. Best, -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] User services
\o/ this is pretty cool and significantly more than I thought would be the beginning. On dv., maig 10 2019, Martin Steigerwald wrote: And now feel free already to contribute your own services. :) I welcome merge requests. Let me just add: not only creating the Merge Requests, but also requesting support for X should also be helpful in that we get to know which packages and user-services are having issues with. Of course, ideally: contributed work is better than just asking for things to get done :-). Maybe the path to officially supporting runit can start by calling everyone who uses it one way or another to contribute some svdirs. There are quite some ideas on how to improve this initial proof of concept: - Make it work out of the box with .xprofile (or how that is called). /me looking to Evilham now :) There is not much to it really, a line I'd use in ~/.xprofile is something like: /usr/bin/runsvdir -P "$HOME/.services/enabled" "log: " & And it should start and stop along with the X session (I don't think it's a good idea to have these services start on regular sessions). - Make it work with other desktop environments out of the box Using the above should do that. - Make it handle groups of services in a clean and simple way - Make it work with s6 alternatively (may just need replacing runsvdir) - And of course add more services, … - including any of those relevant in /usr/lib/systemd/user/ - Putting it into a package. I am willing to package it at a later point in time. When discussing this, please make sure doing so constructively. Thanks a lot to Evilham for coming up with the idea to use runit for user services and for providing the initial service directories for the four services to make Evolution work. Thank you for looking into it and actually documenting it and improving on the whole thing. Now let's make more out of this by the power of together… and of course enjoy using it. Yes! -- Evilham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
