Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[aitor]

Hi,

On 4/9/21 16:39, al3xu5 wrote:

had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so
they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered
EVERY time I restart the box!
I also like to use lots of desktops and
too many of the applications
are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY
restart.

Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually"
at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this.

I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box
to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up
things at every login...


|If your desired resolution isn't listed by xrandr, you can create a new 
config file in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d. This file must have a file 
extension of ".conf". One sample of such file might be as follows: 
Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" EndSection Section 
"Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" HorizSync 30.0-62.0 
VertRefresh 50.0-70.0 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default 
Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" Device "Configured Video Device" 
DefaultDepth 60 SubSection "Display" Depth 60 Modes "1920x1080" 
"1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection EndSection |



Pay attention to the key "Modes" in the SubSection "Display" containing three 
different resolutions.
I don't know about the identifiers used here. The X11/Xlib library can select 
the default screen by
the following way:

Display *display = XOpenDisplay(NULL);
Screen *screen = DefaultScreenOfDisplay(display);/*  default */

But it's also possible to choose the first one via:

screen = ScreenOfDisplay(display, 0);
 
So, i guess you can try using integers 0, 1,... as identifiers in the|Section "Screen"|.


HTH,

Aitor.


||
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:37 AM al3xu5  wrote:

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 09:44:21 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :
>
> > [...]
>
> > > > >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have
> > > > >the financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.
> > >
> > > Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
> > > individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
> > > Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources
> > > to pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
> > > licenses) they do it for them.
> > >
> > > In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
> > > tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that
> > > you can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to
> > > indicate the author and you don't have to change the content...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> > > > project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.
> > >
> > > So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:
> > >
> > > - GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution
> > >
> > > which states:
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > > Copyright YEAR AUTHOR
> > >
> > > Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
> > > of this entire document without royalty provided the
> > > copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
> > > ~~~
> > >
> > > - Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
> > >   
> > >
> > > which states:
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > > You are free to:
> > >
> > > Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
> > >
> > > The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
> > > license terms.
> > >
> > > Under the following terms:
> > >
> > > Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to
> > > the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
> > > reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
> > > endorses you or your use.
> > >
> >
> > I would like to register my disagreement with some parts of this concept!
> >
> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
>
> restrictions!
>
>
>> 
>
>
>> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B
>
> > > NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial
> > > purposes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
>
> restrictions!
>
>
>> 
>
>
>> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B
>
> >
> > Most everything I do here is in some shape or way related to something
> > commercial!
> > I use this or I build that or I modify this that and the next thing to
> > either make something
> > happen or build it or whatever and I do hope to make money with this
> > stuff! Its how I
> > provide for myself. Perhaps you are independently wealthy and need
> > absolutely no
> > more to live even reasonably. I need to feed my hobbies some of which may
> > have the
> > potential to feed others well likely far before they contribute to
> > feeding me! This kind
> > of statement is quite upotian and severely limits a lot of stuff imo!
> > (Please note the imo
> > at the end!!!)
> >
> > >
> > > NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the
> > > material, you may not distribute the modified material.
> > >
> >
> > If correct attribution is practiced this is another developmental
> > hinderance.
> > If I can further improve your doc/build/whatever - - - - how is that
> > 'hurting/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
>
> restrictions!
>
>
>> 
>
>
>> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B
>
> > injuring' you. Now if your idea is commercial then you can say this but
> > if it
> > truly is open source why would you want to hinder someone from improving
> > your stuff. Practically - - - - - I did it all the time in the trades -
> > - - its quite
> > normal. Some cheap azzed company makes something that with some minor
> > tweaks works much better. Why wouldn't I get such done? To respect
> > someone's
> > 'ideas'? Blarney - - - - after I've bought the piece I should be allowed
> > to improve
> > it - - - always supposing that one does know something of what one is
> > doing.
> > (Companies are generally run by accountants or lawyers with the aim of
> > making
> > a profit - - - - making a quality product is most often almost 

Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 9:40 AM al3xu5  wrote:
https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=12

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 07:17:11 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :
>
> > On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500
> > >
> > > [...]
> >
> > - I
> > had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so
> > they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered
>>
>>
>> 
>
> Enrico
>
> > EVERY time I restart the box!
> > I also like to use lots of desktops and
> > too many of the applications
> > are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY
> > restart.
>
> Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually"
> at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this.
>

Well - - - - I have at least two different configurations right now.
One with the 4k and one without.

>
> I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box
> to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up
> things at every login...


I've read about those - - - - just haven't found a good cogent guide to
creating
such. There are so many things that I'm trying to do that I worry about the
low
hanging fruit and what absolutely needs to get done. If I have an up time
of
6 months taking 3 minutes to type out 4 to 7 commands doesn't bug me. Now
when my uptime is measured in single digit hours - - - - - anything to do
with
login and setup bugs me!

Do you know of such a 'guide' (a how to on writing log in scripts. I'm
finding
that when I go looking for stuff that 90% of what the search engine drags
up
was current as of 2010 or earlier and I've been bitten enough times by
stuff
that's out dated - - - - don't need more of that joy!) ?

>
> Incidentally, I would like to share this two useful links:
> - modeline generator:
>   http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
> - modeline database
> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database
>
>
> > I can
> > not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache
> > (every cotton
> > picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime
> > shrinks - - -
> > the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as
> > low as 45
> > minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - -
> > its the time
> > it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the
> > pain. My computers
> > are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to
> > hide myself from
> > the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks
> > anyway
> > - -
> > unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone
> > else's!
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > So please - - - -if anyone knows something about taming this nouveau hdmi
> > issue
> > (I think that's what it is!!!), or how to get my mobo to talk to radeon
> > gpus I really
> > want to talk. (I also am open for questions on my setup but would prefer
> > not to
> > broadcast everything on the web - - - grin!).
>
> Premise: I have never used more than 1 monitor... And excuse me if this is
> of no interest for you.
>
> But, searching in the net (for "linux 4-monitor" or "linux multi-monitor"),
> it seems X can handle up to 16 monitors since years, either Nvidia or
> AMD, either proprietary or free drivers...
>
> Just in case you miss it, here below are some interesting links:
>
> How To Use Multiple and External Displays
> https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/
>
>

I gave ubuntu the heave ho when they chose to force updates one their
schedule.
Am finding that they also seem to think that their solutions always work -
- - - they
sure as crap didn't when I was looking for ideas for my system setup the
last time
I was digging (some time ago but Ubuntu's arrogance as only increased so I
now
mostly avoid them except where they do something well (kernel supply is one
interesting exception!).


>
> Quad-Monitor AMD/NVIDIA Linux
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=quad_monitor_linux=1


Outdated instructions - - - - nvidia sure as stink no longer supports
multi-gpu systems!
They want you to buy pro gear to do that - - - - have you checked the
pricing on that stuff.

>
>
> Trying Out The Modern Linux Desktops With 4 Monitors + AMD/NVIDIA Graphics
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-quad-desktop=1
>
>

See previous.

>
> xorg - Using many monitors (4+) in linux
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2911/using-many-monitors-4-in-linux
>
>

I originally used xorg and a pure x11 setup but that's a tough way to do
things and
today xrandr works very well and then thirdly see up two.

>
> Multihead - ArchWiki
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/multihead
>

It was actually the ArchWiki pages on multihead and multi-gpu setups that
helped
me when I was setting up. I would suggest that the instructions 

Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[al3xu5]

Sat, 4 Sep 2021 09:44:21 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :

> [...]

> > > >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have
> > > >the financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.  
> >
> > Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
> > individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
> > Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources
> > to pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
> > licenses) they do it for them.
> >
> > In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
> > tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that
> > you can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to
> > indicate the author and you don't have to change the content...
> >
> >  
> > > Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> > > project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.  
> >
> > So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:
> >
> > - GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution
> >
> > which states:
> >
> > ~~~
> > Copyright YEAR AUTHOR
> >
> > Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
> > of this entire document without royalty provided the
> > copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
> > ~~~
> >
> > - Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
> >   
> >
> > which states:
> >
> > ~~~
> > You are free to:
> >
> > Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
> >
> > The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
> > license terms.
> >
> > Under the following terms:
> >
> > Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to
> > the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
> > reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
> > endorses you or your use.
> >  
> 
> I would like to register my disagreement with some parts of this concept!
> 
> >
> > NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial
> > purposes. 
> 
> Most everything I do here is in some shape or way related to something
> commercial!
> I use this or I build that or I modify this that and the next thing to
> either make something
> happen or build it or whatever and I do hope to make money with this
> stuff! Its how I
> provide for myself. Perhaps you are independently wealthy and need
> absolutely no
> more to live even reasonably. I need to feed my hobbies some of which may
> have the
> potential to feed others well likely far before they contribute to
> feeding me! This kind
> of statement is quite upotian and severely limits a lot of stuff imo!
> (Please note the imo
> at the end!!!)
> 
> >
> > NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the
> > material, you may not distribute the modified material.
> >  
> 
> If correct attribution is practiced this is another developmental
> hinderance.
> If I can further improve your doc/build/whatever - - - - how is that
> 'hurting/
> injuring' you. Now if your idea is commercial then you can say this but
> if it
> truly is open source why would you want to hinder someone from improving
> your stuff. Practically - - - - - I did it all the time in the trades -
> - - its quite
> normal. Some cheap azzed company makes something that with some minor
> tweaks works much better. Why wouldn't I get such done? To respect
> someone's
> 'ideas'? Blarney - - - - after I've bought the piece I should be allowed
> to improve
> it - - - always supposing that one does know something of what one is
> doing.
> (Companies are generally run by accountants or lawyers with the aim of
> making
> a profit - - - - making a quality product is most often almost invisible
> on the list
> its so far down!)
> 
> >
> > No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or
> > technological measures that legally restrict others from doing
> > anything the license permits.
> > ~~~
> >
> > [...]

Maybe you have miss something here...

The discussion was not general, but specific about which license to choose
for a technical document written by an author (Steve).

The author -- who is the copyrighy owner -- wants to share his work,
letting people use it for personal purposes, and eventually sharing
it with attribution and without modifications, neither of the license nor
the document content.

Given that situation, a GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution license or
the CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International seems to fit the author requirements (he
is the author, he decide how to license its work).

For example and more clarification, in *this given situation* the CC
BY-NC-ND 4.0 International seems to be good as:
BY: means people must cite the author when share the work with others
NC: means people must use and/or share the author's work only for personal
(i.e. 

Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM al3xu5  wrote:

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 04:14:12 -0400 - Steve Litt :
>
> > goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:18:43 -0500
> >
> > >Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan
> > >trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and
> > >written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt.
> > >
> > >My .02 . . .
> > >
> > >Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through
> > >Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is
> > >even considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne.
>
> Just to clarify and avoid misunderstandings:
>
> - I know there are trademarks etc.
>
> - My proposal for one "DNG Verbatim Libre License" was, precisely, just a
> proposal...
>
> - I made the proposal saying "I suggest sometihing like"... So, the
>   proposed text was a "sample", where terms like "DNG" or "Devuan" and the
>   content text were, in fact, to be discuss (in case you were interested
>   in doing so)
>
> [...]
>
>
> > >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the
> > >financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.
>
> Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
> individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
> Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources to
> pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
> licenses) they do it for them.
>
> In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
> tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that you
> can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to indicate
> the author and you don't have to change the content...
>
>
> > Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> > project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.
>
> So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:
>
> - GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution
>
> which states:
>
> ~~~
> Copyright YEAR AUTHOR
>
> Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
> of this entire document without royalty provided the
> copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
> ~~~
>
> - Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
>   
>
> which states:
>
> ~~~
> You are free to:
>
> Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
>
> The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
> license terms.
>
> Under the following terms:
>
> Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the
> license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
> reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
> endorses you or your use.
>

I would like to register my disagreement with some parts of this concept!

>
> NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.
>

Most everything I do here is in some shape or way related to something
commercial!
I use this or I build that or I modify this that and the next thing to
either make something
happen or build it or whatever and I do hope to make money with this stuff!
Its how I
provide for myself. Perhaps you are independently wealthy and need
absolutely no
more to live even reasonably. I need to feed my hobbies some of which may
have the
potential to feed others well likely far before they contribute to feeding
me! This kind
of statement is quite upotian and severely limits a lot of stuff imo!
(Please note the imo
at the end!!!)

>
> NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material,
> you may not distribute the modified material.
>

If correct attribution is practiced this is another developmental
hinderance.
If I can further improve your doc/build/whatever - - - - how is that
'hurting/
injuring' you. Now if your idea is commercial then you can say this but if
it
truly is open source why would you want to hinder someone from improving
your stuff. Practically - - - - - I did it all the time in the trades - - -
its quite
normal. Some cheap azzed company makes something that with some minor
tweaks works much better. Why wouldn't I get such done? To respect
someone's
'ideas'? Blarney - - - - after I've bought the piece I should be allowed to
improve
it - - - always supposing that one does know something of what one is
doing.
(Companies are generally run by accountants or lawyers with the aim of
making
a profit - - - - making a quality product is most often almost invisible on
the list
its so far down!)

>
> No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or
> technological measures that legally restrict others from doing
> anything the license permits.
> ~~~
>
> or any other similar verbatim license.
>
>
> > >Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine
> > 

Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[al3xu5]

Sat, 4 Sep 2021 07:17:11 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :

> On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt 
> wrote:
> 
> > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500
> >  
> > [...]
> 
> - I
> had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so
> they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered
> EVERY time I restart the box! 
> I also like to use lots of desktops and
> too many of the applications
> are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY
> restart. 

Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually"
at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this.

I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box
to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up
things at every login...

Incidentally, I would like to share this two useful links:
- modeline generator:
  http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
- modeline database
https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database


> I can
> not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache
> (every cotton
> picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime
> shrinks - - -
> the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as
> low as 45
> minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - -
> its the time
> it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the
> pain. My computers
> are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to
> hide myself from
> the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks
> anyway
> - -
> unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone
> else's!
>
> [...]
>
> So please - - - -if anyone knows something about taming this nouveau hdmi
> issue
> (I think that's what it is!!!), or how to get my mobo to talk to radeon
> gpus I really
> want to talk. (I also am open for questions on my setup but would prefer
> not to
> broadcast everything on the web - - - grin!).

Premise: I have never used more than 1 monitor... And excuse me if this is
of no interest for you.

But, searching in the net (for "linux 4-monitor" or "linux multi-monitor"),
it seems X can handle up to 16 monitors since years, either Nvidia or
AMD, either proprietary or free drivers...

Just in case you miss it, here below are some interesting links:

How To Use Multiple and External Displays
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/

Quad-Monitor AMD/NVIDIA Linux
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=quad_monitor_linux=1

Trying Out The Modern Linux Desktops With 4 Monitors + AMD/NVIDIA Graphics
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-quad-desktop=1

xorg - Using many monitors (4+) in linux
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2911/using-many-monitors-4-in-linux

Multihead - ArchWiki
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/multihead

Use multiple monitors as one big monitor
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1192181/use-multiple-monitors-as-one-big-monitor

How to Set Up Multiple Monitors in Linux : 6 Steps - Instructables
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-set-up-multiple-monitors-in-linux/



Maybe you could be interested in a possible hardware solution, as pheraphs
could be a multi-monitor appliance (which surely is not cheap)...
Something like the Matrox QuadHead2Go Series:

QuadHead2Go Q185 | Multi-Monitor Controller Appliance | Matrox Video
https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhead2go-series/q185-appliance



Regards
al3xu5

-- 
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
restrictions!


Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B


pgppIm2ncx0u_.pgp
Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt  wrote:

> o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500
>
> >as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28
> >hours.
>
> Duude!!!
>
> I hereby resign from the conversation. All of my experience is with one
> monitor of less than 4k capabilities. I can't even begin to understand
> the hoops you'd need to jump through to get five monitors, of different
> resolutions, running. When you get it running you should write a
> detailed article for one of the Linux trade magazines, because that
> will be a real accomplishment.
>
>
It was many years ago, likely in the early 2000s that I ran into an article
regards knowledge workers and their screen real estate. The conclusion
was that there was a direct connection between the worker's effectiveness
and their screen real estate.
I had bought a system in 1999 where I was fortunate enough to get a
1600x1200 crt monitor at a pretty good, for then, price. Really liked
having
the space. (At the time I used spreadsheets for my business record keeping
-
- - most call it accounting but that it ain't! - - - with the sheets having
over 250
columns (max was 256 columns at the time!) so being able to see more
columns
meant that I could work faster - - - - a good thing!!!
When I put together my present system (end 2011 very beginning of 2012) I
gave myself a treat and knowing that also thought of getting into some
fairly computationally intensive calculations (lol - - - still working on
that)
chose to drop in 3 gpus and set up 4 24" monitors. The cash spent was
'interesting' to say the least! (The shop that assembled the system - - -a
way to get a pretty good warranty - - - - nicknamed it the beast - - -
there weren't
too many 64 GB RAM systems around in 2012!!)
Started by using the proprietary drivers from nvidia. At that time there
was
support from nvidia for multi-gpu AND multi-monitor usage. I think it was
some time in later 2015 when I went to nouveau. Note that it was AFTER
all of this that Linus gave his all too appropriate salute to nvidia If
I had
only known - - - - but that salute was already 4 years AFTER this system
happened.
In early 2020 I had 2 gpus die in a fairly short time. I had set up the
system
for maximum cooling and the noctua fans (some not all) happened only after
the original ones died. From what I know now I really don't like most of
the
fans installed today - - - - too noisy, not enough air movement and then
cost
too much and far too many have stupid blinky lights or other such rot that
- - - - well - - - for me its for kid's toys - - - not 'work tools!!'. So I
needed to
replace at least one gpu and bought another nvidia because that was what
was already in the box. Even the 'old card(s) had a hdmi port and the new
card (1050 Ti) was rated for hdmi2.0b according to the literature when I
ordered it. I ordered it because it was very reasonable and that it did
have 3 (!!!)
available ports (hdmi, dp (1.4), and DVI - - - - the 4 monitors are all DVI
- - - a
very short lived option imo!).
It may be difficult to believe for those that have limited themselves to
the use
of only one monitor but I found myself hampered by my screen real estate on
my system as I found myself starting to get into some CAD and other design
usage. So I first bought a 4k TV that seemed to have the right specs - - -
that
was a joke and I chose to buy a fairly reasonable 4k monitor. That's when
the
'fun' with hdmi started. I am not sure exactly when things started changing
but I was getting up times in the many month (greater than 4 for sure) on a
regular basis. IIRC (and I may not be) that was with Debian Buster and a
4.9.x kernel yet. Adding the 4k monitor quite changed that. Understand - -
- I
had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so they
would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered EVERY time
I restart the box! I also like to use lots of desktops and too many of the
applications
are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY restart.
I can
not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache
(every cotton
picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime
shrinks - - -
the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as low
as 45
minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - - its
the time
it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the pain.
My computers
are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to hide
myself from
the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks anyway
- -
unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone
else's!

I've tried remove the nvidia boards and installing a single Radeon 570 (I
thing
it was) tried with a pair of RX 460s and I can't get the system to boot
using either
option. My guess is that the mobo showed up at the beginning of the PCI3.0

Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[al3xu5]

Sat, 4 Sep 2021 04:14:12 -0400 - Steve Litt :

> goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:18:43 -0500
> 
> >Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan 
> >trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and 
> >written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt.
> >
> >My .02 . . .
> >
> >Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through 
> >Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is
> >even considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne.

Just to clarify and avoid misunderstandings:

- I know there are trademarks etc.

- My proposal for one "DNG Verbatim Libre License" was, precisely, just a
proposal... 

- I made the proposal saying "I suggest sometihing like"... So, the
  proposed text was a "sample", where terms like "DNG" or "Devuan" and the
  content text were, in fact, to be discuss (in case you were interested
  in doing so)

[...]


> >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the 
> >financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.

Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources to
pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
licenses) they do it for them.

In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that you
can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to indicate
the author and you don't have to change the content... 


> Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.

So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:

- GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution

which states:

~~~
Copyright YEAR AUTHOR

Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
of this entire document without royalty provided the
copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
~~~

- Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
  

which states:

~~~
You are free to:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format

The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
license terms.

Under the following terms:

Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the
license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
endorses you or your use.

NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.

NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material,
you may not distribute the modified material.

No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or
technological measures that legally restrict others from doing
anything the license permits.
~~~

or any other similar verbatim license.


> >Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine 
> >preservation.  
> 
> :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  


Indeed :-)

But even a paper papyrus would not be bad. It also resists 5000+ years ...

A CDROM that resists 50 years is already a miracle; And even if it were,
in 50 years it will be difficult to even find a reader ...

Someone today can read a 5 1/4 floppy? 


Regards
al3xu5

-- 
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
restrictions!


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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License

[al3xu5]

Fri, 3 Sep 2021 14:46:53 -0400 - Hendrik Boom :

> On Fri, Sep 03, 2021 at 10:33:31AM +0200, al3xu5 wrote:
> > Thu, 2 Sep 2021 21:50:10 +0200 - tito :
> >   
> > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:26:52 -0400
> > > Steve Litt  wrote:
> > >   
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > 
> > > > A discussion on this list about a month ago spawned several
> > > > documents about programming best practices, which I have been
> > > > calling the "DNG Software Guide", even though it's absolutely not
> > > > sponsored or even approved by Devuan.
> > > > 
> > > > With the latest version at
> > > > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/golug_software_guide_20210901.tgz
> > > > , it's mature enough to get a license and Git distribution. This
> > > > email is about the license.
> > > > 
> > > > If this were software, I'd probably vote for an extremely
> > > > permissive license like the license of Expat (
> > > > https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat ). However, this is
> > > > documentation, and I'm a little afraid that people with
> > > > insufficient knowledge, or with political agendas, will water it
> > > > down with bullshit. Only skilled people can modify source code,
> > > > but any fool can modify documentation.  
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > Agree.
> > 
> >   
> 
> Isn't there already a creative commons license like this?

It is the CC BY-NC-ND 4.0
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

which states:


You are free to:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format

The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
license terms.

Under the following terms:

Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the
license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
endorses you or your use.

NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.

NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material,
you may not distribute the modified material.

No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or
technological measures that legally restrict others from doing
anything the license permits.




Regards
al3xu5

-- 
Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
restrictions!


Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B


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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

[g4sra via Dng]

On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 7:41 PM, hal  wrote
> On 8/31/21 11:02, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> 
> > > ctl.!default {
> > > type hw
> > > card 0
> > > }
> > > 

> > > Check to make sure you do not have a ~/.asoundrc overriding 
> > > /etc/asound.conf
> Good thought, and have checked this. Especially relevant with the multi-user 
> situation. I will check on the other enlightening ALSA suggestions you have 
> made.
> 
> > get user_one's cookie:
> > user_one# xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
> > localhost/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g
> > then give the cookie to user_two:
> > user_two# xauth add localhost/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 
> > 83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g
> > now 'user_two' can access the GUI (you may need to set DISPLAY):
> > user_two# DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox 
> > -ProfileManager
> Thank you for this! I have always used 'xhost +' and drop TCP 6000 (eth0) on 
> the host firewall (on my "single-user" workstation anyway). I've tried to 
> find more secure ways to share the X cookie but for one reason or another, 
> they never worked out. I will try this!

Hi Hal,

I replied off-list, it just occurred to me it may have gone into your spam box.


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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[aitor]

On 3/9/21 18:18, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine 
preservation. 
There is no getting around the fact that the emergence of digital books 
left us somewhat nostalgic of the feel of the paper,
in the same way as, many centuries ago, the emergence of the parchment 
left our ancestors remembering with nostalgia the pleasant silky-stony 
feel ;~)


Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Steve Litt]

o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500

>as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28
>hours.

Duude!!!

I hereby resign from the conversation. All of my experience is with one
monitor of less than 4k capabilities. I can't even begin to understand
the hoops you'd need to jump through to get five monitors, of different
resolutions, running. When you get it running you should write a
detailed article for one of the Linux trade magazines, because that
will be a real accomplishment.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[Steve Litt]

Bruce Perens via Dng said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:30:06 -0700

>Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux
>that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code
>talks directly to the display hardware

I'm reminded of writing to the RAM following B800 on DOS :-).

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[Steve Litt]

goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:18:43 -0500

>Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan 
>trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and 
>written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt.
>
>My .02 . . .
>
>Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through 
>Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is
>even considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne.

Thanks for reminding me now, rather than after we have sweat equity in
the name.

This documentation project's only relationship to Devuan, DNG, whatever
is it happened to start there, but it's applicable everywhere. So we'll
just come up with a new name that correctly portrays the situation.

Thanks for your timely reminder.

>
>And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the 
>financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.

Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.

>
>Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine 
>preservation.

:-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  


SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[Steve Litt]

hal said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 05:30:57 -0500

>On 9/3/21 02:09, Steve Litt wrote:
>> spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700
>>   
>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
>>> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>>>  
 He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact
 function, was really not worth running.  
>>>
>>> I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
>>> tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been
>>> implemented yet though.  
>> 
>> When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
>> the nVidia and put in a Radeon.
>>   
>
>The GPU companies have been living the thug life for years. First,
>price increase was blamed on bitcoin, then the pandemic, then
>shipping/boat-stuck-in-canal... it all seems a little too convenient
>to argue a 300% price increase is still due to any one/all of these.
>
>Luckily (or un-luckily?) I have a 1050ti that I bought before prices
>went ham. A 1070ti (released in 2017!) refurb is still going for well
>over $500 on Newegg ffs...
>
>It doesn't look like I'll be upgrading anytime soon. I'll stick to
>Minecraft and Dosbox before I pay those prices. Given the famous Linus
>quote pertaining to his thougts on Nvidia, I'm open to exploring other
>options.
>
>Any suggestions for a Radeon upgrade from a 1050ti? Is RTX only an
>Nvidia thing? I quit following the GPU trade rags when pricing went
>ham because I got tired of reading the excuses.

I don't know about RTX or 1070ti, but you can buy a no-fan, 2GB RAM
modern Radeon for well less than $100.00. Mine seems to play videos
just fine, at least Youtube videos.

If you need some sort of super-duper video, then there will be some
cost and some fan noise associated with it.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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