Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 5:07 pm, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>>
>> About the logo, /if/

Okay, then about the IMAGE ... /if/

...
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[golinux]

On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:


About the logo, /if/


That is NOT the Devuan logo.  It is a piece of decorative artwork with a 
message about init freedom which is the reason Devuan exists. It is also 
present on the Init Freedom page of the Devuan website at: 
https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom


THIS is the official Devuan logo:

https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/devuan-logo-1000x200.png

Those interested in the genesis of the logo can find it in these 2 
"issues" from our old gitlab starting here:

https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.7.html
Then finishing here. It took about 2 months to get it right:
https://devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.20.html

Thanks to bgstack15 for rescuing that history. Ah, the memories . . . 
those were heady days!!


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 7:56 am, Steve Litt wrote:
> Syeed Ali said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:56:59 -0800
> 
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600
>> goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>>
>>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png  
>>
>> I submit:
>>
>> "Freedom includes init choice."
> 
> Very nice

Yes, I like it too.

About the logo, /if/ -- could mean too many things;
 - my first thought was fedora
 - others facebook
 - interface
 - then there's that insurance company now

It's all over the place, the letters alone don't mean enough and too
closely represent other things; the extra "hidden" text may not make a
difference, even though the background is meant to be transparent.

And for a "symbol" for freedom, I had a quick look and didn't find
anything I liked that is out there and isn't political, religious or US
patriotic; as if the US owns freedom.  Or even otherwise not divisive.

But I do think some kind of universal symbol would work, just don't know
what it should be.  The closest I get to is the combination of the peace
(all roads lead to one, nuclear disarmanent) symbol with a dove flying free.

I see Devuan as a MORE universal Debian, what Debian was "meant" to be
and was for many years.  Whether that needs to be specifically init
freedom or not is another matter.  To me, it is just better because it
is more universal.  Embedded and other low resource hardware or
appliances are not going to use Debian with systemd, at the very least
systemd would likely be stripped.  But if the device has an abundance of
resources (strong CPU, storage, etc.), then minimalization and
reasonable optimization will fall by the wayside as it does with the
bloatiness and underlying performance problems of Winblows being "fixed"
by newer hardware ... but I digress.


Sure others could come up with better symbols / logos and words than me.

A.
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[William Peckham via Dng]

Forgive my brevity, I am on a cell phone.

Please keep in mind that a logo on the web page and the actions upon
rollover should be friendly to those colorblind or visually impaired.  If a
change is made, it should preserve function for all.
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Re: [DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list

[Bob Proulx via Dng]

Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> Not fixed?
> 
> Did anybody look at this.

Did you send a problem report to the mailing list owner?

There isn't much that us as users and participants of the mailing list
can do about hosting system problems.  Although there might be a
subscriber who is active who also might have admin access that usually
isn't the case.  Just lucky if there is.

For mailing lists the mailing list owner is the foo-owner address.  So
for this mailing list dng it would be dng-ow...@lists.dyne.org (which
if obscured will be dng-owner AT lists DOT dyne DOT org in unredacted
form).  Please send your problem report to the list admins.

Bob


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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[terryc]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:38 +0100 (CET)
Karl Hammar  wrote:

> Hendrik:
> > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> >  
> > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .
> > > > "  
> > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png  
> > 
> > Interesting.  The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the
> > image dynamic.  At first I thought it a design error; then
> > I realised it works very well.  
> 
> What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym...
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype:
>  https://www.if.se/
> so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the 
> authorities allows thoose names).

That insurance company's logo is a serif font and the logo has other
elements so it wouldn't be confused. 

My 2c is they would only have any logo protection if it was a registered 
trademark. but there is still the
point that 'if' is a common english expression.

Also, DNS registration
in one domain does not preclude registration in any other domain,
unless whomever holds 'if.se' has already registered all the if.*
variations.

 
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[DNG] Positive lead on Re: Website "motto"?

[terryc]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 17:23:14 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100
> 
> >On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote:
> >  
> >> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41
> >> >
> >> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >> 
> >> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was
> >> the English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short
> >> and to the point works only if you don't need an accompanying
> >> explanation.
> >
> >So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two
D> >letters?
> >
> >That could be enough to make people think of them separately.  
> 
> I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person
> reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give
> them? We know, but do they?
> 
> Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative, but I think
> maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd",
 

Disagree; lead with a positive, say Enjoy Your Init Freedom
List of good points, then
"Don't get stuck with systemd" and list of other bad points.

IF is just if/what if/etc in my mind and init-freedom is somewhere
in the long list of 2LAs.

IME, a positive spin opens the mind for education and the
points as to the benefit of 'init freedom' to people who do not
usually think about it.

A negative feed only connects with the already aware and rarely
converts people unless they are aware that you can learn by examining
the negative.



> with that
> phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why
> you don't want to get stuck with systemd: 
> 
> * Systemd is DIY hostile
> * For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes
>   troubleshooting much more difficult
> * Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface
> * Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init
>   installations.
> * Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the
> Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] vdev in chimaera

[aitor]

Hi all,

I uploaded some images of gnuinos chimaera including vdev as default 
device manager.


https://www.gnuinos.org/mirror/chimaera/live/ 



I would like you to test them after a hard disk installation because 
this is the

first time one can replace eudev with vdev via APT by simply typing:

# apt-get install vdev libudev1-compat

beyond which it's possible to restore eudev in a similar way:

# apt-get install eudev libeudev1

Though eudev and vdev depend on libeudev1 and libudev1-compat 
respectively, it's
recommended to mention them explicitly in order to prevent other 
packages like Xorg

from being uninstalled during the change.

It's worth mentioning that you won't find any external devices in the 
panel of thunar
because some benefits of gvfs/udisks2 don't work with vdev.Hopefully the 
trash is still there.
With this in mind, I included fsmithred's usbpmount.sh and 
usb-unmount.sh yad scripts to
handle usb sticks, pending the arrival of an improved release of hopman 
in chimaera.


I also uploaded the sources of the live-sdk that generate the available 
iso images.


Cheers,

Aitor




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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:23 PM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100
>
> >On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> >> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41
> >> >
> >> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >>
> >> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
> >> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to
> >> the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.
> >
> >So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two
> >letters?
> >
> >That could be enough to make people think of them separately.
>
> I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person
> reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give
> them? We know, but do they?
>
> Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative,

Today its considered part of political correctness to say nothing
negative.

It was the norm for many many years - - - in fact - - - I remember the
phrase "If you've nothing good to say say nothing!" - - - in fact I heard
that a lot (I tend to nit pick at stupid idiocies that I find!).

So in some ways emphasising the positive benefits is a return to
society's roots. The blatant, all too often infantile, spewing that has
become far too common is a product of having too many persons
with huge skills and tiny people experience lashing out at what
they see as a personal attack, even when it isn't (although sometimes
it is). Computer society seems to be fraught with this - - - changing
this kind of behavior - - - - well the current political correctness
male bovine excrement is mostly incitement for more spewing
and not for changing hearts and minds.

In regards to the present topic - - - one only needs to look at the
response(s) from the author of this systemd malaise when he
was challenged (sometimes in a fashion that was itself unacceptable).

> but I think
> maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd", with that
> phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why
> you don't want to get stuck with systemd:
>
> * Systemd is DIY hostile
> * For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes
>   troubleshooting much more difficult
> * Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface
> * Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init
>   installations.
> * Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions
>
This is a great 'second' step - - - pulling in the uninformed is the first
step.

If you think legislating morality works I would suggest you review the
prohibition - - - the legislation really helped little (except for some who
became filthy rich at it) and changed nothing - - - at least not that I
can tell!

I hope I haven't been a serious pot stirrer in this but this discussion
seems to be polarizing - - - and if  it escalates any more it will only
divide an already small group. Wondering if its time to close the topic.
I will try very very hard not to respond further!

HTH
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Steve Litt]

Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100

>On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41  
>> >
>> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png  
>> 
>> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
>> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to
>> the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.  
>
>So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two
>letters?
>
>That could be enough to make people think of them separately.

I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person
reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give
them? We know, but do they?

Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative, but I think
maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd", with that
phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why
you don't want to get stuck with systemd: 

* Systemd is DIY hostile
* For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes
  troubleshooting much more difficult
* Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface
* Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init
  installations.
* Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[golinux]

On 2022-01-19 14:59, Steve Litt wrote:

goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 -0600


On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:


Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "



Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png


For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the
point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.

SteveT



That image has been part of Devuan's identity and working quite well for 
the last 7 years and 4 releases. It's hardly a new thing and was 
designed (not by me) for a specific purpose which seems to have been 
lost in time.


The bike-shedding is quite useless and frankly getting annoying without 
an accompanying tangible option for us to look at and evaluate.


Is everyone really that bored and clueless?

golinux

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Re: [DNG] Youtube is slow and advertisement laden: Was: Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[Ken Dibble]

On 1/19/22 9:44 AM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:


On 17/1/22 1:54 pm, Ken Dibble wrote:

Or just install tsp and submit the download commands to the queue.

What is "tsp" ?
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for some reason the deb is named task-spooler

once installed you invoke it by its' binary name tsp


My fault for not being clearer.

You can search the web for lots of examples of using it.

Task spooler is a Unix batch system where the tasks spooled run one
after the other. Each user in each system has his own job queue. The 
tasks are

run in the correct context (that of enqueue) from any shell/process, and its
output/results can be easily watched. It is very useful when you know that
your commands depend on a lot of RAM, a lot of disk use, give a lot of
output, or for whatever reason it's better not to run them at the same time.


Regards,

Ken

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Steve Litt]

k...@aspodata.se said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 10:55:11 +0100 (CET)

>Curtis:
>> > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:  
>> >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
>> >>  
>...
>> “Your first step matters”  
>
>I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
>has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
>some clique.

"Devuan respects your workflow!"

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love

[Bob Proulx via Dng]

goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> Lars Noodén wrote:
> > What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required?
> 
> In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered my
> mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not
> "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex.
> 
> Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is
> seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . .
> 
> I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on your
> monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let
> us have a look.

I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side
by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop.  Both are
identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned.  Yet
side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in
color tone between them.  They are definitely not the same even though
by specification they will be the same.

The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the
backlight is not identical between them.  One shows a slightly warmer
color hue to the backlight from the other.  I think that swamps other
effects causing differences in my "matched pair".

None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on
the displays though.  That's an art project more than a science project.

Bob


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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Antony Stone]

On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote:

> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41
> >
> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> 
> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the
> point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.

So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two letters?

That could be enough to make people think of them separately.

Antony.

-- 
She did not swoon, but she did get a look on her face that said 'This 
conversation is over', which Jack took as a sign he was going in the right 
direction.

 - Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Steve Litt]

Curtis Maurand via Dng said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:18:47 -0500

>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>> 
>> On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:  
>>> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "  
>> 
>> Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
>> 
>> Will need to be discussed at our weekly …  
>
>“Your first step matters”

What does "Your first step matters" even mean? My first step in
selecting a distro? The fact that this is about PID1?

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Steve Litt]

goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41 -0600

>On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
>>   
>
>Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png

For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to the
point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Steve Litt]

Syeed Ali said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:56:59 -0800

>On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600
>goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>
>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png  
>
>I submit:
>
>"Freedom includes init choice."

Very nice

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Antony Stone]

On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:49:32, Blakov Niyt wrote:

>  Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > 
> > Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :)
> 
> Both look WAY too much like Facebook.

A change of background colour would be sufficient to fix that.

Antony.

-- 
Bill Gates has personally assured the Spanish Academy that he will never allow 
the upside-down question mark to disappear from Microsoft word-processing 
programs, which must be reassuring for millions of Spanish-speaking people, 
though just a piddling afterthought as far as he's concerned.

 - Lynne Truss, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Blakov Niyt]

Antony Stone wrote on 2022-01-19 06:09:

On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote:


On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:

Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "


Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png

Will need to be discussed at our weekly …


What I thought of was
   "Take your first step"
A little more dynamic.


Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :)

Antony.


Both look WAY too much like Facebook.


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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 20:04:13 +0100 (CET)
k...@aspodata.se wrote:

> Florian:
> > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET)
> > k...@aspodata.se wrote:  
> ...
> > > To paraphrase usenix:
> > > 
> > >   ;init:
> > > 
> > > but that would be too much of an internal joke.  
> ...
> > I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains
> > "too much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate
> > on it?  
> 
>  ;login: is/was the magazine of usenix and sage, see:
> https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/
> 
>  "login:" is was the getty prints at the terminal so you can login.
>  For the semicolon, see:
> https://static.usenix.org/publications/login/whysemi.html
> 
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar


Oh, wow... still looking for the system that "echoes freedom"... but
with (a cup of) 'tee' you can have it "printed locally" as well: share
and enjoy -_-

libre Grüße!
Florian
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Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love

[golinux]

On 2022-01-19 12:50, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote:

On 1/17/22 23:17, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
[snip]> This is not a trivial task. The many pieces that need to be
coordinated

are described in this HOW-TO:
https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md

[snip]

What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required?

/Lars



In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered 
my mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" 
art not "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a 
hex.


Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is 
seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . .


I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on 
your monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop 
and let us have a look.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[karl]

Florian:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET)
> k...@aspodata.se wrote:
...
> > To paraphrase usenix:
> > 
> >   ;init:
> > 
> > but that would be too much of an internal joke.
...
> I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains "too
> much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate on it?

 ;login: is/was the magazine of usenix and sage, see:
https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/

 "login:" is was the getty prints at the terminal so you can login.
 For the semicolon, see:
https://static.usenix.org/publications/login/whysemi.html

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

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Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love

[Lars Noodén via Dng]

On 1/17/22 23:17, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
[snip]> This is not a trivial task. The many pieces that need to be
coordinated

are described in this HOW-TO:
https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/theming-devuan.md

[snip]

What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required?

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Antoine via Dng]

On Wednesday, 19 January at 10:22, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:37 AM Andrew McGlashan via Dng
 wrote:


On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
 Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
>>>
>>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
>>
>> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
>
> "take"

Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.



Watermark type of text is only useful if it is visible enough to be
seen without needing special equipment imo.


For anyone who missed it, the background is actually transparent. Overlay the 
logo on a different background to have the "hidden"  text show much more 
clearly.


- Antoine


--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea.
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Syeed Ali]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png

I submit:

"Freedom includes init choice."
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:57 +0100 (CET)
k...@aspodata.se wrote:

> Florian:
> ...
> > I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully
> > sufficient resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor
> > advice).
> > 
> > The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads:
> > 
> > init: freedom
> > 
> > or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact:
> >   
> > > init freedom█  
> > 
> > with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]...
> > 
> > This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands
> > not only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems,
> > but that the this very choice will have a much greater impact
> > subsequently.  
> 
> To paraphrase usenix:
> 
>   ;init:
> 
> but that would be too much of an internal joke.
> 
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar


I tried with a websearch for 'usenix AND syntax' - but this remains "too
much of an internal joke" for me... May I ask you to elaborate on it?
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[karl]

Florian:
...
> I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully sufficient
> resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor advice).
> 
> The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads:
> 
>   init: freedom
> 
> or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact:
> 
>   > init freedom█
> 
> with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]...
> 
> This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands not
> only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems, but that
> the this very choice will have a much greater impact subsequently.

To paraphrase usenix:

  ;init:

but that would be too much of an internal joke.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[karl]

o1bigtenor:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM  wrote:
...
> > I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
> > has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
> > some clique.
...
> but I really like the idea of nothing negative.
> There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying around - - -
> somehow I think it is possible to make a point without
> having to destroy the opposing one.

I agree with that.

Perhaps something like "You're the captain, which init do you prefer today?"
Like in captain of a ship and you have to navigate the system.
Somehow corporate marketing has thoose positive things seems like ads.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar


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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Karl Hammar]

Hendrik:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > 
> > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> 
> Interesting.  The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the
> image dynamic.  At first I thought it a design error; then
> I realised it works very well.

What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym...

Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype:
 https://www.if.se/
so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the 
authorities allows thoose names).

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:37 AM Andrew McGlashan via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>  Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >>>
> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
> >>
> >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
> >
> > "take"
>
> Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.
>

Watermark type of text is only useful if it is visible enough to be
seen without needing special equipment imo.

Regards
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Re: [DNG] Youtube is slow and advertisement laden: Was: Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 17/1/22 1:54 pm, Ken Dibble wrote:
> Or just install tsp and submit the download commands to the queue.

What is "tsp" ?
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 01:36:43AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> 
> 
> On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>  Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >>>
> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
> >>
> >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
> > 
> > "take"
> 
> Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.

Now I see it.
Maybe we need more contrast?

-- hendrik

> 
> A.
> 
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
 Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
>>>
>>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
>>
>> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
> 
> "take"

Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.

A.

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 03:09:00PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
> > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > > > 
> > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > > > 
> > > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly …
> > 
> > What I thought of was
> >   "Take your first step"
> > A little more dynamic.
> 
> Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :)

When I look at that image, I don't see "take" anywhere.

-- hendrik

> 
> Antony.
> 
> -- 
> Software development can be quick, high quality, or low cost.
> 
> The customer gets to pick any two out of three.
> 
>Please reply to the list;
>  please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Antony Stone]

On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:07:25, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > > 
> > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > > 
> > > Will need to be discussed at our weekly …
> 
> What I thought of was
>   "Take your first step"
> A little more dynamic.

Hence https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png :)

Antony.

-- 
Software development can be quick, high quality, or low cost.

The customer gets to pick any two out of three.

   Please reply to the list;
 please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:18:47PM -0500, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > 
> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > 
> > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > 
> > Will need to be discussed at our weekly …
> 
> “Your first step matters”

What I thought of was
  "Take your first step"
A little more dynamic.

-- hendrik
> 
> just my 2 pennies 
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Antony Stone]

On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > 
> > Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
> 
> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.

"take"

Antony.

-- 
"Can you keep a secret?"
"Well, I shouldn't really tell you this, but... no."


   Please reply to the list;
 please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2022-01-18 20:49, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > 
> > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > > 
> > 
> > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> > 
> > Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet.
> > 
> > golinux
> 
> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png

I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.

-- hendrik

> 
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> > 
> 
> Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png

Interesting.  The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the
image dynamic.  At first I thought it a design error; then
I realised it works very well.

-- hendrik

> 
> Will need to be discussed at our weekly dev meet.
> 
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 06:01:29 -0600
o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM  wrote:
> >
> > Curtis:
> > > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .
> > > >>  "
> > ...
> > > “Your first step matters”
> >
> > I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
> > has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
> > some clique.
> >
> 
> I agree that that is what I want - - - - but I really like the idea of
> nothing negative. There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying
> around - - - somehow I think it is possible to make a point without
> having to destroy the opposing one. Maybe I'm assuming people
> would 'get it' and they don't. Just find it frustrating to be treated
> like I'm an idiot as some persons have seemed to want me to think that
> I am (for not finding their way as being 'wonderful' just because its
> theirs).
> 
> HTH



I like "init freedom" very much and think, that it's fully sufficient
resp. that it doesn't need any further comment (nor advice).

The only change I would suggest is to add a colon, that it reads:

init: freedom

or, to stress the "command" style, while keeping the syntax intact:

> init freedom█

with a (blinking?) cursor at the end, seducing to hit [enter]...

This, I think, would make it even more obvious, that Devuan stands not
only for the freedom to choose among a number of init systems, but that
the this very choice will have a much greater impact subsequently.

libre Grüße,
Florian
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM  wrote:
>
> Curtis:
> > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> ...
> > “Your first step matters”
>
> I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
> has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
> some clique.
>

I agree that that is what I want - - - - but I really like the idea of
nothing negative. There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying
around - - - somehow I think it is possible to make a point without
having to destroy the opposing one. Maybe I'm assuming people
would 'get it' and they don't. Just find it frustrating to be treated like
I'm an idiot as some persons have seemed to want me to think that
I am (for not finding their way as being 'wonderful' just because its
theirs).

HTH
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[karl]

Curtis:
> > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
...
> “Your first step matters”

I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
some clique.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

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Re: [DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

Not fixed?

Did anybody look at this.

There are a bunch of new messages now coming from one or more other IP
addresses for the list.

A.


On 6/1/22 11:15 pm, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> This report/notice is generated from the  mail server which handles
> incoming and outgoing emails for: the mailing list
> 
> 
> NB: Incoming email has been flagged with a permanent error due to the
> currently defined SPF ruleset as setup by those responsible for the
> SENDING domain name.
> 
>   Sending IP Address: 141.95.47.84
> Sender Email Address: dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org
>  Sender Email Domain: lists.dyne.org
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:35 AEDT 2022
> 
> spfquery.mail-spf-perl --mfrom dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org --ip 141.95.47.84
> fail
> .
> lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default to use
> 'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism '-all' matched)
> Received-SPF: fail (lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default
> to use 'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism
> '-all' matched)) receiver=mail.affinityvision.com.au; identity=mailfrom;
> envelope-from="dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org"; client-ip=141.95.47.84
> 
>  -- status: 1
> 
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022
> 
> dig -t txt lists.dyne.org +short|grep spf
> "v=spf1 mx include:dyne.org -all"
> 
>  -- status: 0
> 
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022
> 
> dig -x 141.95.47.84 +short
> harlock.dyne.org.
> 
>  -- status: 0
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> AndrewM
> 
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-- 
Andrew McGlashan
IT Support & Broadband Solutions
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