[DNG] bind9 updates broke, needed second aptitude update

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

I found on a couple of systems that an upgrade of bind9 caused it to fail to 
start.

The fix [for me] was to do a second update/upgrade as well as making sure that 
/etc/resolv.conf had a nameserver it could
find and use.  I must have just been caught after doing the update to the 
faulty version just before the fix come through.

This was on two systems still running ascii


bind9 versions:
   Pre-first update/upgrade
 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u10

   The versions for the two update/upgrades ...
 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u11
 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u12

Turns out that 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u11 was broken.


The changelog refers to this:\
   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1007945

  <---changelog extract>
  bind9 (1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u12) stretch-security; urgency=high

* Non-maintainer upload by the LTS team.
* Regression update for CVE-2021-25220: Properly initialize variables before
  using them. (Closes: #1007945)

   -- Markus Koschany   Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:43:45 +0100

  bind9 (1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u11) stretch-security; urgency=high

* Non-maintainer upload by the LTS team.
* Fix CVE-2021-25220:
  When using forwarders, bogus NS records supplied by, or via, those
  forwarders may be cached and used by named if it needs to recurse for any
  reason, causing it to obtain and pass on potentially incorrect answers.

   -- Markus Koschany   Fri, 18 Mar 2022 14:25:50 +0100
  <---changelog extract>





I expect a single update/upgrade should be fine now, but just in case this 
helps anyone else, it's on the mailing list now ;-)


Cheers


-- 
Andrew McGlashan



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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 5:07 pm, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>>
>> About the logo, /if/

Okay, then about the IMAGE ... /if/

...
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 7:56 am, Steve Litt wrote:
> Syeed Ali said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:56:59 -0800
> 
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:59:35 -0600
>> goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>>
>>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png  
>>
>> I submit:
>>
>> "Freedom includes init choice."
> 
> Very nice

Yes, I like it too.

About the logo, /if/ -- could mean too many things;
 - my first thought was fedora
 - others facebook
 - interface
 - then there's that insurance company now

It's all over the place, the letters alone don't mean enough and too
closely represent other things; the extra "hidden" text may not make a
difference, even though the background is meant to be transparent.

And for a "symbol" for freedom, I had a quick look and didn't find
anything I liked that is out there and isn't political, religious or US
patriotic; as if the US owns freedom.  Or even otherwise not divisive.

But I do think some kind of universal symbol would work, just don't know
what it should be.  The closest I get to is the combination of the peace
(all roads lead to one, nuclear disarmanent) symbol with a dove flying free.

I see Devuan as a MORE universal Debian, what Debian was "meant" to be
and was for many years.  Whether that needs to be specifically init
freedom or not is another matter.  To me, it is just better because it
is more universal.  Embedded and other low resource hardware or
appliances are not going to use Debian with systemd, at the very least
systemd would likely be stripped.  But if the device has an abundance of
resources (strong CPU, storage, etc.), then minimalization and
reasonable optimization will fall by the wayside as it does with the
bloatiness and underlying performance problems of Winblows being "fixed"
by newer hardware ... but I digress.


Sure others could come up with better symbols / logos and words than me.

A.
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Re: [DNG] Youtube is slow and advertisement laden: Was: Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 17/1/22 1:54 pm, Ken Dibble wrote:
> Or just install tsp and submit the download commands to the queue.

What is "tsp" ?
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
 Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
>>>
>>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
>>
>> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
> 
> "take"

Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.

A.

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Re: [DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

Not fixed?

Did anybody look at this.

There are a bunch of new messages now coming from one or more other IP
addresses for the list.

A.


On 6/1/22 11:15 pm, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> This report/notice is generated from the  mail server which handles
> incoming and outgoing emails for: the mailing list
> 
> 
> NB: Incoming email has been flagged with a permanent error due to the
> currently defined SPF ruleset as setup by those responsible for the
> SENDING domain name.
> 
>   Sending IP Address: 141.95.47.84
> Sender Email Address: dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org
>  Sender Email Domain: lists.dyne.org
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:35 AEDT 2022
> 
> spfquery.mail-spf-perl --mfrom dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org --ip 141.95.47.84
> fail
> .
> lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default to use
> 'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism '-all' matched)
> Received-SPF: fail (lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default
> to use 'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism
> '-all' matched)) receiver=mail.affinityvision.com.au; identity=mailfrom;
> envelope-from="dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org"; client-ip=141.95.47.84
> 
>  -- status: 1
> 
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022
> 
> dig -t txt lists.dyne.org +short|grep spf
> "v=spf1 mx include:dyne.org -all"
> 
>  -- status: 0
> 
> 
> 
> Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022
> 
> dig -x 141.95.47.84 +short
> harlock.dyne.org.
> 
>  -- status: 0
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> AndrewM
> 
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-- 
Andrew McGlashan
IT Support & Broadband Solutions
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[DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

This report/notice is generated from the  mail server which handles
incoming and outgoing emails for: the mailing list


NB: Incoming email has been flagged with a permanent error due to the
currently defined SPF ruleset as setup by those responsible for the
SENDING domain name.

  Sending IP Address: 141.95.47.84
Sender Email Address: dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org
 Sender Email Domain: lists.dyne.org


Thu  6 Jan 23:11:35 AEDT 2022

spfquery.mail-spf-perl --mfrom dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org --ip 141.95.47.84
fail
.
lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default to use
'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism '-all' matched)
Received-SPF: fail (lists.dyne.org: Sender is not authorized by default
to use 'dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism
'-all' matched)) receiver=mail.affinityvision.com.au; identity=mailfrom;
envelope-from="dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org"; client-ip=141.95.47.84

 -- status: 1



Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022

dig -t txt lists.dyne.org +short|grep spf
"v=spf1 mx include:dyne.org -all"

 -- status: 0



Thu  6 Jan 23:11:38 AEDT 2022

dig -x 141.95.47.84 +short
harlock.dyne.org.

 -- status: 0

Kind Regards

AndrewM

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Re: [DNG] kvm -- virsh failed shutdown -- reason was missing acpid on vm [resolved]

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 26/3/21 12:25 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Thursday 25 March 2021 at 14:16:52, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> 
>>  "virsh shutdown vmname"
>>
>>  The immediate response was that it would shutdown the vm
>>
>>  However, doing "virsh list --all" still showed the vm as "Running" no
>> matter how long I waited.
>>
>> It turns out the the vm needed to have the acpid package installed so that
>> the vm could get the shutdown signal.
> 
> Indeed - this is a known requirement for VMs (certainly under KVM, I don't 
> know about Xen etc, but I would assume it also applies there).

I think that systemd takes care of it, with or without acpid, but I'm not sure 
about that.

If this is a consequence of choosing non-systemd, then perhaps it should be 
mitigated by the sans systemd system installing acpid.

> Whether you consider it a shortcoming of Debian (and therefore Devuan) that 
> acpid and acpid-support-base are not installed by default is up to you.

Debian, no need for acpid for vm but only if systemd is installed, is that 
correct?

> My solution is that I've added these packages to the script I run immediately 
> after creating a VM, to make sure it works the way I want it to.

Yeah, it was a pain point until I worked it out.

Cheers
A.

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[DNG] kvm -- virsh failed shutdown -- reason was missing acpid on vm [resolved]

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

I set up a new kvm machine with beowulf 3.1 and created a simple vm that I plan 
to use for Wireguard.

The problem I had was with doing:

 "virsh shutdown vmname"

 The immediate response was that it would shutdown the vm

 However, doing "virsh list --all" still showed the vm as "Running" no 
matter how long I waited.

It turns out the the vm needed to have the acpid package installed so that the 
vm could get the shutdown signal.

Kind Regards
AndrewM

-- 
Andrew McGlashan

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Re: [DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] failed to boot, left at initramfs shell -- with fix and query

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 8/7/20 10:07 pm, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 06:14:51PM +1000, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/7/20 7:31 am, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> ...on Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 02:00:38AM +1000, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>>>
>>>  > After the dist-upgrade, it failed to boot and remained at the 
>>> ministrants shell environment after having complained about not being able 
>>> to find the /usr file system via it's UUID.
>>>
>>> I have a system mostly like this (minus mdraid) with split root and /usr 
>>> on lvm each, and didn't run into your problem.
>>>
>>> My fstab uses /dev/mapper device names instead of UUIDs, but I don't see 
>>> why that should make a difference, seeing as it isn't used in the initramfs.
>>
>> Apparently with initramfs-tools it will try to mount /usr if it is in 
>> /etc/fstab ... not being able to mount /usr stopped normally boot from 
>> progressing further.
>>
>> Using the /dev/mapper device name would likely have been just as good, but 
>> I'm not sure as I didn't try that; I adjusted the 
>> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2 file
>> to specifically activate the lv so it could be found to be mounted as it 
>> should have been.
>>
>>> (On the other hand, I usually use UUIDs too, so there might be a reason it 
>>> looks that way, and I just don't remember about it right now...)
>>
>> Yes, that makes sense.
>>
>> I would think that you fixed the problem by using the /dev/mapper 
>> entry and I fixed it in the lvm2 script.
> 
> 
> I quite agree.  There's a bug that needs fixing for Devuan, but not 
> Debian.
> I may delay upgrading until it's fixed.

Not sure it will get fixed... :(
 - it seems that the problem is a bit of an edge case and won't effect anybody 
whom doesn't split /usr from root.
 - if they have split them and they don't "merge" them,
 - then the problem /may/ only arise if UUIDs are used for mount reference 
in /etc/fstab.

I don't really like my fix, but I'll probably merge /usr into root myself next 
time I'm onsite where that machine lives to avoid future issues.

> My /boot is on an old-style RAID by itself, so either copy can be used
> directly.
> 
> My /usr, by the way, is on lvm2 on RAID.
>   Do I need both adjustments?

I would think that the /dev/mapper/VG-LV in /etc/fstab would probably be fine.

Otherwise, expand the root file system LV (hopefully you have space), boot from 
a LIVE USB and move /usr back to root as well as remove the /usr entry in your 
/etc/fstab file.

Once /usr is back inside the root filesystem, then there is no need to keep the 
/usr lv.

Cheers
A.



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Re: [DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] failed to boot, left at initramfs shell -- with fix and query

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 8/7/20 7:31 am, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> ...on Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 02:00:38AM +1000, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> 
>  > After the dist-upgrade, it failed to boot and remained at the ministrants 
> shell environment after having complained about not being able to find the 
> /usr file system via it's UUID.
> 
> I have a system mostly like this (minus mdraid) with split root and /usr 
> on lvm each, and didn't run into your problem.
> 
> My fstab uses /dev/mapper device names instead of UUIDs, but I don't see 
> why that should make a difference, seeing as it isn't used in the initramfs.

Apparently with initramfs-tools it will try to mount /usr if it is in 
/etc/fstab ... not being able to mount /usr stopped normally boot from 
progressing further.

Using the /dev/mapper device name would likely have been just as good, but I'm 
not sure as I didn't try that; I adjusted the 
/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2 file
to specifically activate the lv so it could be found to be mounted as it should 
have been.

> (On the other hand, I usually use UUIDs too, so there might be a reason it 
> looks that way, and I just don't remember about it right now...)

Yes, that makes sense.

I would think that you fixed the problem by using the /dev/mapper entry and I 
fixed it in the lvm2 script.  Either way, I think there is a bug that needs to 
be fixed with
initramfs-tools so that neither adjustment should be necessary.

Cheers
A.



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Re: [DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] failed to boot, left at initramfs shell -- with fix and query

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 7/7/20 8:58 am, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Doesn't systemd require a merged /usr partition?  It sounds as if a 
> systemd-ism has crept into our boot process.
> 
> Fortunately I haven't upgraded my server to beowulf yet.

Probably I know that Debian wants merged /usr, wasn't sure it was 
specifically due to systemd, but I think you are right.

I've upgraded 6 machines now from Ascii to Beowulf and it turns out the only 
one that I've done with this particular problem is the only one that had /usr 
as it's own file system
and not part of the root file system.

A.




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[DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] failed to boot, left at initramfs shell -- with fix and query

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

I had another "simple" server upgrade from Devuan Ascii to Devuan Beowulf, 
these are the details and my work around for the problem.


There was nothing particularly special about this server, it doesn't use 
encrypted file systems; it started out life as a Debian Wheezy installation, 
migrated to Devuan Jessie and
later to Devuan Ascii and now Beowulf.


The server has /boot on it's own RAID1 partition with another RAID1 volume for 
the rest of the disk being an LVM2 volume group having a number of logical 
volumes for root, swap,
/usr/, /var/, /home/ and more.


After the dist-upgrade, it failed to boot and remained at the ministrants shell 
environment after having complained about not being able to find the /usr file 
system via it's UUID.

It had another error as well which was fixed by allocating 25% to RUNSIZE 
variable (up from 10%) in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf

- it was unable to find "rm" when running the boot up scripts before 
dumping itself to the initramfs shell.


Once at the initramfs prompt after fixing the first problem, I was able to do 
the following:

(initramfs) lvm

lvm> vgchange -ay

lvm> exit

(initramfs) exit


And then the server would continue to boot properly.


_The second fix, which I consider to be "clunky", was to adjust the 
/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2 file, adding in a line near 
the bottom as highlighted_

activate "$ROOT"
*activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"*
activate "$resume"


Then I rebuilt the initramfs in the usual way.

update-initramfs -u -k all


The original lvm2 script specifically only activated the root file system 
(/dev/mapper/vg0-root), even though /usr (/dev/mapper/vg0-usr) was in the exact 
same volume group as a
separate file system, thus stopping boot from succeeding as expected.

Other volumes come online in due course okay.


All was good with subsequent reboots.


Now, cludge or clunky, this was required because the /usr file system was [and 
continues to be] separate to the root file system and the initramfs only cared 
to enable the root
file system, leaving all other logical volumes as being "NOT AVAILABLE", 
including /usr which was definitely required!


Have I fixed this appropriately, or should I some how fix it another way?


Kind Regards
AndrewM




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Re: [DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] chrooted bind9 server -- /usr/share/dns/root.hints issue -- with fix

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

Okay, not fully fixed after reboot... apparmor gave problems as previously 
discussed on the list.

Also needed to adjust:

   /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.sbin.named


Added a line:

   /var/lib/named/** rw,


Then restarted apparmor service:

   service apparmor reload


And then bind would start properly, immediately and again after another reboot.


Should it be all good now?


Thanks
A.


On 6/7/20 12:04 am, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just upgraded fron Devuan ascii to beowulf with the server running bind9 in 
> a chroot environment and bind would not start.
> 
> 
> _This was the relevant error in /var/log/daemon.log_
> 
> Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *could not configure root 
> hints from '/usr/share/dns/root.hints': file not found*
> Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *loading configuration: 
> file not found*
> Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *exiting (due to fatal 
> error)*
> 
> 
> _Fixed as follows:_
> 
> # mkdir -p /var/lib/named/usr/share/dns
> # cp -pv /usr/share/dns/* /var/lib/named/usr/share/dns/
> 
> 
> _NB: No upgrade changes were made to any config file including the 
> /etc/default/bind9 file below._
> 
> # cat /etc/default/bind9
> 
> # Set RESOLVCONF=no to not run resolvconf
> RESOLVCONF=yes
> 
> # startup options for the server
> #OPTIONS="-u bind"
> 
> 
> # Added -t ... for running of bind9 in a chroot environment
> #OPTIONS="-u bind -t /var/lib/named"
> # Added -4 to foce IPV4 lookups only
> OPTIONS="-u bind -4 -t /var/lib/named"
> 
> ### NB: This symbolic link is needed for the chroot environment too
> #    (without needing to change /etc/init.d/bind9 file)
> #
> # cd /run/named
> # ln -s /var/lib/named/run/named/named.pid .
> 
> 
> Kind Regards
> AndrewM



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[DNG] Upgrade problem [ ascii -> beowulf ] chrooted bind9 server -- /usr/share/dns/root.hints issue -- with fix

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

I just upgraded fron Devuan ascii to beowulf with the server running bind9 in a 
chroot environment and bind would not start.


_This was the relevant error in /var/log/daemon.log_

Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *could not configure root 
hints from '/usr/share/dns/root.hints': file not found*
Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *loading configuration: file 
not found*
Jul  5 23:36:43 bind9-server-name named[6476]: *exiting (due to fatal 
error)*


_Fixed as follows:_

# mkdir -p /var/lib/named/usr/share/dns
# cp -pv /usr/share/dns/* /var/lib/named/usr/share/dns/


_NB: No upgrade changes were made to any config file including the 
/etc/default/bind9 file below._

# cat /etc/default/bind9

# Set RESOLVCONF=no to not run resolvconf
RESOLVCONF=yes

# startup options for the server
#OPTIONS="-u bind"


# Added -t ... for running of bind9 in a chroot environment
#OPTIONS="-u bind -t /var/lib/named"
# Added -4 to foce IPV4 lookups only
OPTIONS="-u bind -4 -t /var/lib/named"

### NB: This symbolic link is needed for the chroot environment too
#    (without needing to change /etc/init.d/bind9 file)
#
# cd /run/named
# ln -s /var/lib/named/run/named/named.pid .


Kind Regards
AndrewM




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Re: [DNG] Ascii to Beowulf upgrade - 32% slowdown !

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 12/6/20 8:49 pm, Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> I just upgraded from ascii to beowulf a pretty decent laptop, equipped
> with a core i7 and 8GB of RAM.
> 
> I upgraded everything in place: so same desktop environment, same
> applications, same hard disk... just "apt-get dist-upgrade" essentially.
> 
> I even kept gcc6 because I had it before and I need it.
> 
> My test case is compiling ArcticFox, thus something in the realm of
> Firefox: lots of compiler activity, make, disk access, make and python.
> But, of course, predominant factor is compilation and linking.
> 
> With ascii, I was consistently (= not just one build) doing a clean
> build in about 31 minutes! Quite fast for this small beast and I was happy.
> 
> With beowulf, this number is consistently about 41 minutes.
> 
> I say this is a very significant slowdown! Can I gain some speed back?
> Some setting? some spectre/meltdown mitigation? Having latest ascii, I
> think I had at least some of the backports.
> 
> 
> I am wary thus updating to beowulf on slower machines.

Just an idea, but it might be spectre/meltdown mitigations?


A.



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Re: [DNG] Out of data ca-certificates causing problems with wget and curl now...

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 2/6/20 1:32 am, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>> $ wget -v4U "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 
>> Firefox/60.0" https://www.idrix.fr/VeraCrypt/canary.txt--2020-06-01 
>> 09:15:48--
>> https://www.idrix.fr/VeraCrypt/canary.txt
>> Connecting to 127.0.0.1:8118... connected.
>> ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.idrix.fr’ is not trusted.
>> ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.idrix.fr’ has expired.
> 
> Most likely, this is the following problem.
> 
> https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/fixing_the_addtrust_root_expiration
> 
> Apply the workaround described there, via
> 
> dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates

Okay, I did it via the cli only as per the steps 1 and 2 down the bottom of 
that post; then tried dpkg-reconfigure and found that due to the attempted 
install of the newer version,
I needed to do more work to fix things ... but it's all good now.

And it worked perfectly on a different box that hadn't had the errant install 
of the newer downloaded package.

Thank you very much.

Kind Regards
AndrewM



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Re: [DNG] Out of data ca-certificates causing problems with wget and curl now...

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 1/6/20 6:37 pm, d...@d404.nl wrote:
> On 01-06-2020 01:31, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>> ca-certificates
>>
>> /usr/bin/aptitude show -t stretch-backports ca-certificates:
>> E: Unable to locate package ca-certificates:
>>
>> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=stretch-backports=ca-certificates
>>
>> Is there any chance of getting a backport of the package in buster without 
>> migrating to beowulf now?
>>
>> Thanks
> 
> It is downloadable, does most likely not have executable code. Just download 
> it and install it with dkpg.

I wondered about doing that but no good.

  - The version of openssl is too old (dependent) and the backports for it is 
as well; I think it could get messy.


# dpkg -i ca-certificates_20190110_all.deb
(Reading database ... 75115 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack ca-certificates_20190110_all.deb ...
Unpacking ca-certificates (20190110) over (20161130+nmu1+deb9u1) ...
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of ca-certificates:
 ca-certificates depends on openssl (>= 1.1.1); however:
  Version of openssl on system is 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1.

dpkg: error processing package ca-certificates (--install):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.6.1-2) ...
cat: /etc/debian_version: No such file or directory
cat: /etc/debian_version: No such file or directory
cat: /etc/debian_version: No such file or directory
Errors were encountered while processing:
 ca-certificates


# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii   main non-free contrib
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates   main non-free contrib
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security  main non-free contrib
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free contrib

deb-src http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii   main non-free contrib
deb-src http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates   main non-free contrib
deb-src http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security  main non-free contrib
deb-src http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free contrib


# aptitude show -t ascii-backports openssl
Mon  1 Jun 19:10:49 AEST 2020 -- show -t ascii-backports openssl
Package: openssl
Version: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1
State: installed
Automatically installed: yes
Multi-Arch: foreign
Priority: optional
Section: utils
Maintainer: Debian OpenSSL Team 
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 1,347 k
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.15), libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.0)
Suggests: ca-certificates
Description: Secure Sockets Layer toolkit - cryptographic utility

Homepage: https://www.openssl.org/
Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::commandline, protocol::ssl, role::program, 
scope::utility, security::cryptography, security::integrity, use::checking


Kind Regards
AndrewM



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Re: [DNG] Out of data ca-certificates causing problems with wget and curl now...

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

OUT OF DATE -- not data

On 1/6/20 9:31 am, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> ca-certificates
> 
> /usr/bin/aptitude show -t stretch-backports ca-certificates:
> E: Unable to locate package ca-certificates:
> 
> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=stretch-backports=ca-certificates
> 
> 
> Is there any chance of getting a backport of the package in buster without 
> migrating to beowulf now?
$ wget -v4U "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0" 
https://www.idrix.fr/VeraCrypt/canary.txt--2020-06-01 09:15:48--
https://www.idrix.fr/VeraCrypt/canary.txt
Connecting to 127.0.0.1:8118... connected.
ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.idrix.fr’ is not trusted.
ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.idrix.fr’ has expired.

The cert is fine in the browser, where the browser is not relying upon 
ca-certificates.

Kind Regards
A.



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[DNG] Out of data ca-certificates causing problems with wget and curl now...

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

ca-certificates

/usr/bin/aptitude show -t stretch-backports ca-certificates:
E: Unable to locate package ca-certificates:



https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=stretch-backports=ca-certificates


Is there any chance of getting a backport of the package in buster without 
migrating to beowulf now?

Thanks

-- 
Andrew McGlashan
IT Support & Broadband Solutions




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Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 16/3/20 5:51 am, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> On 13/3/20 1:59 pm, Steve Litt wrote:
>> It's called POSIX. With POSIX, I always have shellscripts, AWK and sort
>> ready to do my work for me. With POSIX, I can pipe a stdout into the
>> next stdin. With POSIX, I can plug in anything conforming to POSIX,
>> such as dmenu, a genius of a program that makes many hard user
>> interface situations simple.
> 
> POSIX is everywhere (including in Gates and Jobs machines), it's not the 
> domain of only *nix like operating systems at all.
> 
> Most things I can do in Linux, I can also do in Winblows .. but I choose to 
> avoid Winblows for other reasons.
> 
> GNU tools are very important, I've ran GNUWin32 tools on Winblows forever.

Actually, we've got more to fear with hardware [and the lower level firmware / 
EFI / SecureBoot / IME / vPro and other crap] these days whether we avoid 
Winblows or not.

The Intel and AMD flaws, Intel Management Engine (IME), vPro capabilities and 
all of that crap; how can we trust our computers?  Those run below the OS level 
and can see everything
that the OS does and it isn't vice/versa.

There are some outfits that go out of their way to give you back freedoms that 
you should not have lost; including System76 for one, disabling IME as much as 
is possible and using
Coreboot.  There have been other projects in the past, but some with very, very 
old pre Intel Core hardware.  Almost every computer sold since the early Intel 
Core Duo CPUs have
had serious flaws and components/systems that significantly lessen your 
freedoms and invades your privacy at the same time -- if they don't do that, 
they sure can if they want to.

Even if you bought almost any new computer these days and ran an OS of your own 
making; it will still include all the Intel Management and/or other crap.

The latest round of flaws from Intel make it so that only the very latest 
processors are immune to serious problems relating to the lack of security of 
IME system keys; meaning
that bad code could get on to the machines whilst masquerading as valid, secure 
and signed "Intel" code (whether you trust Intel or not).  Even having fixed 
this particular flaw,
assuming they have, then you've still got to trust Intel.

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 13/3/20 1:59 pm, Steve Litt wrote:
> It's called POSIX. With POSIX, I always have shellscripts, AWK and sort
> ready to do my work for me. With POSIX, I can pipe a stdout into the
> next stdin. With POSIX, I can plug in anything conforming to POSIX,
> such as dmenu, a genius of a program that makes many hard user
> interface situations simple.

POSIX is everywhere (including in Gates and Jobs machines), it's not the domain 
of only *nix like operating systems at all.

Most things I can do in Linux, I can also do in Winblows .. but I choose to 
avoid Winblows for other reasons.

GNU tools are very important, I've ran GNUWin32 tools on Winblows forever.

Cheers
A.
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[DNG] Terrible reporting / puff piece about systemd

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Horrid article that could have been written by pro-systemd Debian devs
themselves.

https://fossforce.com/2020/02/the-verdict-on-systemd-is-in/

Throw your 2pence in, I have; not that I expect my post to actually
remain or remain without a counter attack :(

A.



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Re: [DNG] buster to beowulf

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 3/2/20 9:28 pm, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
> On 17/1/20 6:37 pm, Mark Hindley wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 06:45:44PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> Yes, I have been working on this.
>>
>> Attached is the script I have been testing. It single steps through.
> 
> I've attached a patch file.

Adjusted patch file changed tab to 4 spaces and fixed typo.
 (orig file didn't use tabs)

Cheers
A.
*** buster_migration.sh.orig	2020-02-03 20:56:10.696650864 +1100
--- buster_migration.sh	2020-02-03 21:43:56.804316985 +1100
***
*** 1,10 
! #!/usr/bin/env bash
  
  # Single step: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9080431/how-execute-bash-script-line-by-line#9080645
  set -x
  trap read debug
  
! update-alternatives --set editor $(which vim.tiny)
  
  # Migrate from Debian buster to Devuan beowulf
  
--- 1,10 
! #!/bin/bash
  
  # Single step: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9080431/how-execute-bash-script-line-by-line#9080645
  set -x
  trap read debug
  
! update-alternatives --set editor "$(which vim.tiny)"
  
  # Migrate from Debian buster to Devuan beowulf
  
*** if  [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then
*** 13,26 
  # Must be Buster
  
  # Install devuan-keyring
! wget http://titan:/pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  
  # Change APT sources
! cat > /etc/apt/sources.list <http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main 
! deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main 
! EOF
  
  apt update
  
--- 13,28 
  # Must be Buster
  
  # Install devuan-keyring
! wget https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  
+ mv -v /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.debian_buster
+ 
  # Change APT sources
! cat > /etc/apt/sources.list <<-EOF
! deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main 
! deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main 
! EOF
  
  apt update
  
*** EOF
*** 35,41 
  # Depends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 241-7~deb10u1), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv
  # 4) Remove ', systemd-sysv from the end of the line, leaving the rest of the line intact
  # 5) Save file
! cp /var/lib/dpkg/status /var/lib/dpkg/status.save
  editor /var/lib/dpkg/status
  
  # Install new init and dbus.
--- 37,43 
  # Depends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 241-7~deb10u1), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv
  # 4) Remove ', systemd-sysv from the end of the line, leaving the rest of the line intact
  # 5) Save file
! cp -pv /var/lib/dpkg/status /var/lib/dpkg/status.save
  editor /var/lib/dpkg/status
  
  # Install new init and dbus.
*** else
*** 67,73 
  apt autoremove --purge
  
  # Change ens3 to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces
! sed s/ens3/eth0/ -i /etc/network/interfaces
  
  fi
  
--- 69,75 
  apt autoremove --purge
  
  # Change ens3 to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces
! sed -i 's/ens3/eth0/' /etc/network/interfaces
  
  fi
  


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Re: [DNG] buster to beowulf

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 17/1/20 6:37 pm, Mark Hindley wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 06:45:44PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Yes, I have been working on this.
> 
> Attached is the script I have been testing. It single steps through.

I've attached a patch file.

AIUI it is better to specifically path /bin/bash rather than via env,
escpecially when we know for sure where bash is located

 - save [with verbose] orig sources.list (mv -v)
 - save file permissions and timestamps [with verbose] with cp (cp -vp)
 - adjust sed to use more normal "sed -i" form...?
 - indent cat EOF (better readability).

Also fix http:// ref to https:// with a server that is valid.



Not tested not sure if /etc/network/interfaces change is universal
or not.

Perhaps change line 7 for which vim instead of vim.tiny?

Also, if the keyring package (.deb file) is "stable", why not verify
it's checksum?

Passes shellcheck cleanly.

Cheers
A.

-- 
Andrew McGlashan
IT Support & Broadband Solutions


Affinity Vision Australia Pty Ltd

*** buster_migration.sh.orig	2020-02-03 20:56:10.696650864 +1100
--- buster_migration.sh	2020-02-03 21:09:41.708648329 +1100
***
*** 1,10 
! #!/usr/bin/env bash
  
  # Single step: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9080431/how-execute-bash-script-line-by-line#9080645
  set -x
  trap read debug
  
! update-alternatives --set editor $(which vim.tiny)
  
  # Migrate from Debian buster to Devuan beowulf
  
--- 1,10 
! #!/bin/bash
  
  # Single step: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9080431/how-execute-bash-script-line-by-line#9080645
  set -x
  trap read debug
  
! update-alternatives --set editor "$(which vim.tiny)"
  
  # Migrate from Debian buster to Devuan beowulf
  
*** if  [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then
*** 13,26 
  # Must be Buster
  
  # Install devuan-keyring
! wget http://titan:/pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
  
  # Change APT sources
! cat > /etc/apt/sources.list  /etc/apt/sources.list <<-EOF
! 		deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main 
! 		deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main 
! 	EOF
  
  apt update
  
*** EOF
*** 35,41 
  # Depends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 241-7~deb10u1), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv
  # 4) Remove ', systemd-sysv from the end of the line, leaving the rest of the line intact
  # 5) Save file
! cp /var/lib/dpkg/status /var/lib/dpkg/status.save
  editor /var/lib/dpkg/status
  
  # Install new init and dbus.
--- 37,43 
  # Depends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 241-7~deb10u1), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv
  # 4) Remove ', systemd-sysv from the end of the line, leaving the rest of the line intact
  # 5) Save file
! cp -pv /var/lib/dpkg/status /var/lib/dpkg/status.save
  editor /var/lib/dpkg/status
  
  # Install new init and dbus.
*** else
*** 67,73 
  apt autoremove --purge
  
  # Change ens3 to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces
! sed s/ens3/eth0/ -i /etc/network/interfaces
  
  fi
  
--- 69,75 
  apt autoremove --purge
  
  # Change ens3 to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces
! sed -i 's/ens3/eth0/' /etc/network/interfaces
  
  fi
  


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Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

On 1/1/20 6:53 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote:
> On 12/31/19 2:16 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote:
>>> On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>>>
>>>> So how long before we can expect to get stable release
>>>> of Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet?
>>>>
>>>
>>> About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're
>>> working on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be
>>> pretty smooth.
>>
>> Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then: apt-get
>> update apt-get dist-upgrade ... now?
>>
>> For production systems or any systems?
>>
>> Thanks A.
>
> For production systems, I might do an upgrade on a test system
> first, only because I haven't heard a lot of upgrade reports. Also,
> there might still be some issues on upgrading lvm.

I use lvm, a lot, what are the problems with lvm?

> I've upgraded standard system (no X), a few xfce systems and a
> mate desktop. They've all been uneventful.

Thanks
A.
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Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

On 1/1/20 4:20 am, fsmithred via Dng wrote:
> On 12/31/19 12:06 PM, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote:
>
>> So how long before we can expect to get stable release of
>> Beowulf? Is there a reasonable timeline available yet?
>>
>
> About the only thing left to do is make the isos, and we're working
> on that. Meanwhile, upgrades from ascii seem to be pretty smooth.

Okay, so safe to update /etc/apt/sources.list and then:
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
... now?

For production systems or any systems?

Thanks
A.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

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76InJNxn0T62gzLF7bXcTG2BjowdEcU=
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Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

   --
essentially same message,
but with line resizing to help with gpg sig
   --

On 31/12/19 12:32 pm, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
> fsmithred via Dng writes:
>> On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote:
>>> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a
>>> binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what
>>> point would it be determined that the best course of action
>>> may be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way?
>>> Probably won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but
>>> it's worth thinking about.
>>
>> One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling
>> farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up.
>>
>> Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6
>> months late.
>
> You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-)
>
> I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still
> no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong,
> despite any resources issues.  Keep up the good work!
>
>> Any talk of switching our base is premature.
>
> Hope this helps,

I agree, it is premature, but I, myself have to admit to being a bit
impatient.

I wonder, not very much though, if Fedora supports non system better
than Debian does or will?

I can't wait for Beowulf either, 6 months now... how long before it is
released. We do have Ascii 2.1 from fairly recently, but I'm sure
that there are many things that Beowulf will help to modernize our
distro of choice. My son is complaining about the mail server not
supporting TLS1.3 and that is down to openssl being v1.1.0l and
not v1.1.1

Buster, from which Beowulf will "align" has v1.1.1d-0_deb10u2 -- not
sure it includes TLS1.3 support, but I expect it does. Is there any
chance of a backport or should we just wait until Beowulf is ready?

I think it is pretty clear now that unless there is a serious change
in Debian's direction, the DDs have clearly flown the systemd flag as
their extremely strong preference and little will be possible in
persuading them otherwise, ever. Given that DDs are the only "chosen"
ones to decide on Debian's future, that makes it even more unlikely to
change.

Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann[1], he is a strong advocate
of right to repair and whilst he regularly profits from Apple design
problems and highlights the problems (sans rose coloured glasses of
iDevotees), he would love for Apple to stop having problems and for
that part of his business to become unnecessary. In some respects I
was sort of hoping that Debian would "fix" their problems and lessen
the need for Devuan as well. As it is today and now very likely, very
much in to the future, we definitely need Devuan to keep going and to
get much stronger over time as we can surely not rely upon Debian too
much unless we choose to move to pro systemd camp and that is not
likely either for most, if not all of us here.

[1]
http://axqzx4s6s54s32yentfqojs3x5i7faxza6xo3ehd4bzzsg2ii4fv2iid.onion/ch
annel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

NB: That is a v3 .onion address for https://invidio.us (no need for
https with .onion addresses and only available on (or via) the Tor
network. Invidious is a "portal" of sorts to YT videos without the
need to visit YT.


So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf?
Is there a reasonable timeline available yet?

Thank you for your good work at Devuan, it is very much appreciated.

Kind Regards
AndrewM
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Re: [DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

On 31/12/19 12:32 pm, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
> fsmithred via Dng writes:
>> On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote:
>>> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a
>>> binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what
>>> point would it be determined that the best course of action may
>>> be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way? Probably
>>> won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but it's
>>> worth thinking about.
>>
>> One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling
>> farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up.
>>
>> Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6
>> months late.
>
> You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-)
>
> I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still
> no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong,
> despite any resources issues.  Keep up the good work!
>
>> Any talk of switching our base is premature.
>
> Hope this helps,

I agree, it is premature, but I, myself have to admit to being a bit
impatient.

I wonder, not very much though, if Fedora supports non system better
than Debian does or will?

I can't wait for Beowulf either, 6 months now... how long before it is
released.  We do have Ascii 2.1 from fairly recently, but I'm sure
that there are many things that Beowulf will help to modernize our
distro of choice.  My son is complaining about the mail server not
supporting TLS1.3 and that is down to openssl being v1.1.0l and
not v1.1.1

Buster, from which Beowulf will "align" has v1.1.1d-0_deb10u2 -- not
sure it includes TLS1.3 support, but I expect it does.  Is there any
chance of a backport or should we just wait until Beowulf is ready?

I think it is pretty clear now that unless there is a serious change
in Debian's direction, the DDs have clearly flown the systemd flag as
their extremely strong preference and little will be possible in
persuading them otherwise, ever.  Given that DDs are the only "chosen"
ones to decide on Debian's future, that makes it even more unlikely to
change.

Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann[1], he is a strong advocate
of right to repair and whilst he regularly profits from Apple design
problems and highlights the problems (sans rose coloured glasses of
iDevotees), he would love for Apple to stop having problems and for
that part of his business to become unnecessary.  In some respects I
was sort of hoping that Debian would "fix" their problems and lessen
the need for Devuan as well.  As it is today and now very likely, very
much in to the future, we definitely need Devuan to keep going and to
get much stronger over time as we can surely not rely upon Debian too
much unless we choose to move to pro systemd camp and that is not
likely either for most, if not all of us here.

[1]
http://axqzx4s6s54s32yentfqojs3x5i7faxza6xo3ehd4bzzsg2ii4fv2iid.onion/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

NB: That is a v3 .onion address for https://invidio.us (no need for
https with .onion addresses and only available on (or via) the Tor
network. Invidious is a "portal" of sorts to YT videos without the
need to visit YT.


So how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf?
 Is there a reasonable timeline available yet?

Thank you for your good work at Devuan, it is very much appreciated.

Kind Regards
AndrewM
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Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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Hi,

On 31/12/19 7:46 am, Steve Litt wrote:
> I didn't hear anyone telling people what to do. I heard Tom ask a
> question.

Tom?  I think you meant me ?

Cheers
A
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Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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On 30/12/19 3:10 pm, terryc wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:11:16 +1100 Andrew McGlashan via Dng
>  wrote: In my experience, when people who do
> not do the work start telling the people who do do the work, what
> to do, many efforts disintigrate.

Without users, including sysadmins willing to install and support an
OS, it's use will disintegrate.  It may as well then be a distro just
for the DDs and those that don't care about non systemd pollution
and/or vandalism.

A.

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Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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On 29/12/19 12:01 am, Mark Rousell wrote:
> On 28/12/2019 07:01, Steve Litt wrote:
>> So, if we insist on assisting Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, and their
>> ilk, and all their users, by incorporating DMARC
>
> Really, it's surely not a matter of willingly helping them. It's
> more a matter of survival at all in a world where they carry a
> significant proportion (possibly a majority but it's not certain)
> of the world's email and where they re-make the rules to suit
> themselves. Just be glad they still support SMTP at all!

Sadly that is too true.

They screw up greylisting, they screw up SPF and they screw up DMARC.

And to make matters worse, you can easily block IP addresses and IP
blocks of bad email servers unless it comes from the rotten lot as
above (including Apple and Microsoft).  I see plenty of forwarded junk
coming through my server from Apple and it's a real pain point.

I just wish everyone would stop using those rotten service providers
when it comes to email :(

A.
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Re: [DNG] :-) Don't get into a pissing contest with Rick Moen

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

On 25/12/19 5:17 pm, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Andrew McGlashan via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> 
>> Although I don't expect to win pissing contests (especially with
>> Rick), I tend to decide that the other opinion /may/ be true or not
>> and simply beg to differ when there is clear relevance on both sides
>> of the argument, ending any potential and wasteful continued posts
>> about the matter.
> 
> Besides, we're both such jolly old elfs, who instinctively shy away from
> conflict, that such contention would never arise in the first place.
> 
> Season's Greetings, Andrew!  All the best to you and yours.
> 
> (Relevant to your point, my late Mom had a beautiful way to terminate
> just about any disputatious discussion:  She would say to the other
> party 'Well, you _may_ be right', and then calmly walk away.)

Well said Rick, and your Mom.

Season's Greetings to you and yours and everyone else here too.

A little warm here in AU, but nice, it'll be hotter later in the week.

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] :-) Don't get into a pissing contest with Rick Moen

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 19/12/19 10:27 pm, Steve Litt wrote:
> My advice, don't get into a pissing contest with Rick Moen: You'll
> lose. I know, I've lost many times. Rick and I are actually good
> friends, but when we disagree, we get in a pissing contest, and I'm
> always the guy ending up dripping wet.
> 
> If he writes sarcastic stuff to you, just let it alone. He won't keep
> pursuing the point. He takes his shot and moves on to other things,
> unless the other guy responds.

I'm sure plenty do that, me included.  If you make a valid point and it
gets argued, then argue until it stops or your argument (or theirs) is
falling on death ears ... or you just give up, then move on.  Although I
don't expect to win pissing contests (especially with Rick), I tend to
decide that the other opinion /may/ be true or not and simply beg to
differ when there is clear relevance on both sides of the argument,
ending any potential and wasteful continued posts about the matter.

Cheers
A.

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Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 14/12/19 2:30 pm, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> 
>> According to this message on the Debian-User email message, Debian is
>> working on dumping non-systemd inits.
> 
> I continue to be unimpressed by the debian-user mailing list as a source
> of reliable information.
> 
>>  The Debian vote methods are so
>> arcane I can't tell whether that's true or false, or whether the quoted
>> vote is early or partial information.
> 
> My advice:  Wait for the LWN.net coverage in this coming week's weekly
> issue.  About a week ago, LWN had this initial coverage (subscriber link
> so people here can see, without paying for subscription):
> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/806332/71a8e11132c02b54/

Thanks Rick, yes I think that there has been a call for votes, (first
call?) ... but someone may have some insider knowledge.

I'm really disgusted the way that Debian is going.  What happened to the
"universal Linux" 

Cheers
A.



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Re: [DNG] Formail for managing digests, Epoch

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi,

On 27/11/19 7:42 pm, Stephane Ascoet wrote:
> Arnt Karlsen:
>
>> ..you can't (AFAIK), you do it outside your MUA, with e.g.: 'cat
>> $DIGEST |formail +1 -ds procmail '
>
> HI, yes, it was clear that it couldn't be done graphically in
> Thunderbird. The first thing I don't understand is what I must
> have behind $DIGEST? The digest saved as an .eml file?

Yes, well, I think if you have a source file that is .eml then I'm
sure it can be used to split out emails in mbox format, which can then
be converted to individual emails and them you can drag those emails,
as required to your TB folder.

>> On 26/11/19 3:22 pm, Rick Moen wrote:
>>>  and just let the two or three users of that mode curse
>>> me as long as they feel is therapeutic.
>>
>> Love it!  Great way to deal with it.
>
> This is a very m$ way to do :-(

Not really, the problem comes more with relying on big tech to do
things their way, Gmail method of "threading" is horrible too.  I
think that digest as a method of mail group delivery should be dead,
it isn't as useful as it used to be and lived in dial-up days of the
long past.

Why not just filter mailing list emails to a particular folder and
forgo the single emails in favour of many that are easier to work with
and not require any special extra processes to deal with properly?

Besides Maildir is all about multiple emails in separate files, but
mbox is not; mbox is pseudo digest, but still better handled than an
actual digest message.

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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Hi Rick,

On 26/11/19 3:22 pm, Rick Moen wrote:
>  and just let the two or three users of that mode curse me
> as long as they feel is therapeutic.

Love it!  Great way to deal with it.


On 26/11/19 8:33 pm, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> ..anotherway is point them to 'info formail' and make them pick one
> of: EXAMPLES To split up a digest one usually uses: formail +1 -ds
> >>the_mailbox_of_your_choice or formail +1 -ds procmail
>


And for the formail, guess that's best for on the server like .forward
files are.  Not at the TB (thunderbird) client end.  Might need mb2md
as well   although TB can do maildir format for client storage
these days, I wanted that a long time ago, but am not using it and
don't expect to now.

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi,

On 24/11/19 1:21 am, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> ..apologies, I just hit the Reply-button and saw you on the
> Cc:-line, and was led to believe that was your intention.
> Responding to this message, I found I had to hit the
> ReplyAll-button to get you there, probably because you put both me
> and DNG in the To: lines.

Again, no list message.  This time I changed after reply-all to have
you as CC and the list as TO.

>> I have tried ASCII 2.0 -- but it looks like there is a new 2.1
>> version just about to be announced?
>
> ..tried upgrading to 2.1?  AFAIK that should happen automagically
> if you run e.g. aptitude update etc at least weekly.

The NUC has Debian on the internal NVME drives but it doesn't work
properly.

I am running MX 18.3 on an external drive, it works fine.

This new machine has never ran Devuan properly; I do get a cli, but no
desktop GUI (XFCE) ... it just won't start, probably to do with the
graphics included in this box (Vega AMD / Intel special setup).

>> Graphics: Device-1: Intel driver: i915 v: kernel
>
> ..you have this Intel card working ok?

Not tried specifically.

>> Device-2: AMD driver: amdgpu v: kernel

There might be a BIOS setting for this, but I really expect the
"better" AMD setup to work... it's one of the reasons I chose this
particular option over the plain Intel one.

>> Display: server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: amdgpu,ati,modesetting
>> unloaded: fbdev,radeon,
>
> ..are these drivers fighting each other??? I see amdgpu but no
> radeonsi, do you have 3D accelleration?

I did nothing special here, just tried a simple desktop live ISO of
ASCII 2.0 and now 2.1 -- no different.

The INXI output was created using the fully working MX 18.3 setup, not
Devuan.

> ..ah, Too New Toy: the Radeon RX Vega M GH on the i7-8809G

Yep, that's it.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake#List_of_8th_generation_Kaby_La
ke_G_processors
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_RX_Vega_series
> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/130409/intel-core
- -i7-8809g-processor-with-radeon-rx-vega-m-gh-graphics-8m-cache-up-to-4-2
0-ghz.html
>
>
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3267074/intel-hades-canyon-nuc-nuc8i7hvk
- -review.html
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-amdgpu/
>
> ..hang in there, or send it my way. ;o)

LOL

> ..this HW below works ok?

Yes, but I do have audio problems, which are temporarily fixed by doing:
   pulseaudio -k

But otherwise it is okay.

There are a combination of things that might be screwing with sound:
  1. Facebook.
  2. Palemoon (older version was worse)
  3. Waterfox Classic (56.3 base of Firefox)
  4. xfreerdp

If I stay away from FB and don't expect any browser to play sound and
don't use xfreerdp, then vlc is happy playing sound without giving
problems for extended periods of time.  If I use any of the above 4
options, particularly FB, then sound can screw-up pretty quickly.

Even tried FB in TBB, that helps a little, TNN is FF ESR 68+ based.
I'm thinking that older Firefox and related browsers is part of the
sound problem; using the latest Firefox and probably the the "modern"
version of Waterfox might be okay too. Never had ANY sound issues
whatsoever with any other device (was mostly using an older Macbook
Pro, it's sound was good with Devuan, as was everything else).

Anyway, the main problem is that Devuan isn't happy on the new toy;
hopefully Beowulf or other updates will fix these problems and I can
stop using MX.

>> Installing with ASCII 2.0 wouldn't boot properly to the XFCE
>> desktop and I wasn't interested in changing kernels
>
> ..you may have to, your box AMD graphics was too new for ASCII 2.0
> as released last year, the driver guys at *.freedesktop.org used to
> need half a year and guinea hardware to write drivers, nowadays, I
> dunno.

Yeah, sadly ASCII 2.1 has the same problems, stuck with MX for now.

>> or doing anything else to make it work out of the box, including
>> trying to work out why XFCE was a problem with Devuan ASCII.
>>
>>
>> Maybe I should try ASCII 2.1 -- but I was expecting Beowulf to be
>> here "any time soon" ... for a lon while now.
>
> ..mmm. :o)

:(

Pity it didn't help... but I did try.  Again, perhaps when Beowulf is
ready, the drivers /might/ be sorted too.

>> The MX installer doesn't support installation installation on
>> RAID1 mdadm devices!  I prefer to use RAID1 for everything, then
>> LUKS on all but the /boot partition with LVM2 -- that sort of
>> setup isn't possible with the MX installer.
>
> ..you've seen http://wiki.tldp.org/LVM-on-RAID or
> http://jasonwryan.com/blog/2012/02/11/lvm/ or
> http://www.iverbi.de/slackware/RAID1_LVM_LUKS_Slackware12_2_Howto.html
> ?

I've done this setup many times, all on servers that never needed any
GUI desktop.  The servers are all fine.  I'll live with MX installer
issues, hoping this is only temporary; I do need a working setup, so
thank goodness for MX to give me that 

Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

Hi,

On 23/11/19 4:38 am, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 03:17:58 +1100, Andrew wrote in message 
> :
> 
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Jo.
>>
>> On 23/11/19 12:26 am, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:
>>> In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux?  
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>> MX is not exactly against systemd, they use it still, but not as the
>> init system.  And MX is reliant upon Debian anyway so sad that
>> Debian is being destroyed by systemd.  I don't know what the answer
>> is, but it would have been best if the original TC chose against
>> systemd, but that ship has sailed and the damage is well and truly
>> done and it's only getting worse.
>>
>> I prefer Devuan over MX, but at this time I am using MX on a machine
>> as an interim until my machine is properly supported by Devuan (if
>> that ever happens properly).
> 
> ..what's missing?

Okay, first off, I didn't see your email in the list yet, but it is
addressed to the list; so I'll reply with list inclusion...

I have tried ASCII 2.0 -- but it looks like there is a new 2.1 version
just about to be announced?

My machine is a NUC8i7HVK with the following hardware details:



# inxi -F -z --no-host -y 80
System:
  Kernel: 4.19.0-5-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3
  Distro: MX-18.3_x64 Continuum May 26  2019
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Intel product: NUC8i7HVK v: J71485-503
  serial: 
  Mobo: Intel model: NUC8i7HVB v: J68196-503 serial:  UEFI: Intel
  v: HNKBLi70.86A.0058.2019.0705.1646 date: 07/05/2019
CPU:
  Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i7-8809G bits: 64 type: MT MCP
  L2 cache: 8192 KiB
  Speed: 800 MHz min/max: 800/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 800 2: 800
3: 800
  4: 801 5: 801 6: 800 7: 800 8: 800
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel driver: i915 v: kernel
  Device-2: AMD driver: amdgpu v: kernel
  Display: server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: amdgpu,ati,modesetting
  unloaded: fbdev,radeon,vesa resolution: 3840x2160~60Hz, 2560x1440~60Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: AMD VEGAM (DRM 3.27.0 4.19.0-5-amd64 LLVM 7.0.0)
  v: 4.5 Mesa 18.2.6
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel driver: snd_hda_intel
  Device-2: AMD driver: snd_hda_intel
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-5-amd64
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Ethernet I219-LM driver: e1000e
  IF: eth1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 
  Device-2: Intel I210 Gigabit Network driver: igb
  IF: eth0 state: down mac: 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 1.36 TiB used: 74.17 GiB (5.3%)
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
  size: 931.51 GiB
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
  size: 931.51 GiB
  ID-3: /dev/sda type: USB vendor: Samsung model: Portable SSD T5
  size: 465.76 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 118.75 GiB used: 74.09 GiB (62.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-0
  ID-2: /boot size: 487.9 MiB used: 85.7 MiB (17.6%) fs: ext4 dev:
/dev/sda2
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 49.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 37 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Info:
  Processes: 254 Uptime: 53m Memory: 31.34 GiB used: 3.59 GiB (11.5%)
  Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.36


Installing with ASCII 2.0 wouldn't boot properly to the XFCE desktop and
I wasn't interested in changing kernels or doing anything else to make
it work out of the box, including trying to work out why XFCE was a
problem with Devuan ASCII.


Maybe I should try ASCII 2.1 -- but I was expecting Beowulf to be here
"any time soon" ... for a lon while now.


The MX installer doesn't support installation installation on RAID1
mdadm devices!  I prefer to use RAID1 for everything, then LUKS on all
but the /boot partition with LVM2 -- that sort of setup isn't possible
with the MX installer.

But XFCE works perfectly out of the box with MX, so I have something to
work with in the meantime.

Kind Regards
AndrewM

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Re: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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Jo.

On 23/11/19 12:26 am, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:
> In the worst case we would not be able to rely on MX Linux?

I think not.

MX is not exactly against systemd, they use it still, but not as the
init system.  And MX is reliant upon Debian anyway so sad that
Debian is being destroyed by systemd.  I don't know what the answer
is, but it would have been best if the original TC chose against
systemd, but that ship has sailed and the damage is well and truly
done and it's only getting worse.

I prefer Devuan over MX, but at this time I am using MX on a machine
as an interim until my machine is properly supported by Devuan (if
that ever happens properly).

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] I wrote IBM

[Andrew McGlashan via Dng]

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Hi Steve,

First off, I fully support your initiative.

On 9/10/19 5:25 pm, Steve Litt wrote:
> I can't give you proof, but I can give a strong piece of evidence:
> 
> http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html
> 
I think that is a very long bough you are drawing here; I wanted to
see the proof and be able to use it to advantage in arguing for non
systemd pollution of systems ... but it was quite weak.  We need [and,
I believe, already have much stronger arguments than that interview
gave for sure.

Cheers
AndrewM
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