Re: [DNG] WAY OFFTOPIC: Idiot electricians: was: Is it dead yet?

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 15:20:22 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> It's the kind of grudge you can keep for 42 years.
> ...
> 
> Pay up, guys, wherever you are.

Oh god, now I have to add to the story time.

That same guy who was flipping a breaker was doing it so fast that
sometimes my system wouldn't even shut off.  At some point my computer
wouldn't turn back on again for some time.  I later learned there was
undocumented magic in my power supply which forced the system to stay
off if it kept cycling like that.  I never realized there was damage
being done.

This same guy also cleaned my computer.  He opened and vacuumed it..

He also removed the heatsink to make sure it was completely clean..

..

and he didn't remove the dust covers to wipe them.
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Re: [DNG] Is it dead yet? -- SOLVED

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 12:15:13 -0400
Hendrik Boom via Dng  wrote:

> Machine works fine now, running devuan ascii.

That's good news.

I guess memory can "wear out", but hopefully the memory wasn't damaged
by some fault in the motherboard or power.  I hope your new memory is
safe.

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Re: [DNG] Is it dead yet?

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 09:49:20 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> Took a while to get them to play nice. Seems that only one 
> configuration of sticks in the 4 slots would work. Hardware . . . 
> grr . . .

When there's a problem, the hardware guys blame software, and the
software guys blame hardware.  :)
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Re: [DNG] Is it dead yet?

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 23:15:15 -0400
Hendrik Boom via Dng  wrote:

> I'll have to replace the RAM, I guess.  Or find out what memory bus
> is failing.

I know this sounds odd, but I had memory errors galore which were
solved by a new power supply.

Apparently a jackass flipping breakers off and on quickly had stressed
it out.  Linux worked without complaint but Windows 8.1 occasionally
bluescreened.  If you have a spare PSU, try that first.

-

This may be obvious, but a memory testing suggestion:

Remove all but one stick

With that one stick in a particular slot, memtest

If failed, repeat with each single stick in that same slot

If all fail, move up a slot and test each stick

I know it's a pain, but it might determine if the any/all memory sticks
or if the motherboard are bad.
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Re: [DNG] FHS deficiencies: Was: Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 19:22:57 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> For a *Personal Computer*, $HOME is a zoo, and I either have to live
> with it, reorganize it only to get broken again with the next major
> upgrade, or violate FHS.

Right from the beginning, I've always thought of $HOME as the place
where my software keeps its stuff.  My software, not me.

It got horrifying when I kept installing, trying, and uninstalling
software.. most of which left behind dotfiles and dotdirs that may or
may not remind me of the name of some program.  (I hated wondering if
some object was necessary or just clutter)

After several dozen dotfiles appeared, I learned to identify and
migrate items I cared about and reference each with a symlink.

Then after blowing away a distribution and installing something new, I
would rebuild the symlinks pointing to that other partition/drive.  The
programs would have a version similar enough to cope with re-using the
dotfiles. This was essential in my experiments with many, many programs
and distributions.

I do recognize that the leading dot can distinguish things from my own
stuff, but it feels like software can stomp around in that tree and I
don't trust it with my data.

Of course since then there are intrusion detection systems and the
like, but that's complexity creeping in.  etckeeper would have been
spectacular had it been around back when I was in my youthful
experimentation phase.
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Re: [DNG] Er, Not that way ? (was: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!)

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 18:52:05 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng  wrote:

> Might I suggest $HOME/bin :-)

For me I've only had a few offline custom scripts in:

  $HOME/live/path

If I thought about it further, I'd probably make it something more
obvious, like:

  $HOME/live/scripts/sh/in-path

Since I share (on GitHub), a crazy large number are in:

  /live/OS/shell-random/git/live/sh/scripts
  /live/OS/shell-random/git/live/zsh/scripts

I use live/zombie/dead because I use terms from tabletop roleplaying
necromancy to help visualize my data.


> It's been 20+ years since "last century" ...

I felt that.  :(
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Twitch and 2FA (TOTP)

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 11:31:16 +0200
Bernard Rosset via Dng  wrote:

> Something very important is implied there, and probably only a few
> will notice it: there is a requirement for a smartphone.

I agree.

I'm also getting text messages for 2FA for a lot of things, for some
more security.. but I have no illusions.

I've been talking to youths as young as 13 who don't even have a
computer.. they are able to do all their computery stuff using a phone.
I can't comprehend this, and I recognize this as being the generation
gap I've been waiting to experience.

God I hate phones, they have so much potential but turned out awful.
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[DNG] [OT] Twitch and 2FA (TOTP)

[spiralofhope]

Sortof-related to the Twitch security concerns..


I keep separate passwords for every website, and looked into two-factor
authentication, with a one time code, using KeePassXC [1].

- Twitch only supplies a QR code
- KeePassXC cannot use a QR code
- I happen to have a phone and can use SecScanQR [2] to decipher it.
- Twitch forces the use of Authy 2FA

https://help-twitch-tv.force.com/s/article/authy-faq

I started some beginner research into avoiding using Authy, and came
upon:

https://gist.github.com/gboudreau/94bb0c11a6209c82418d01a59d958c93

A comment in that pointed me to:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190418055823id_/us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topic/20755608040





[1] https://keepassxc.org/
[2] https://github.com/Fr4gorSoftware/SecScanQR
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[DNG] [OT] Twitch source code leak

[spiralofhope]

To signal boost, because "lol proprietary services":

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-entirety-of-twitch-has-reportedly-been-leaked/
https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/6/22712250/twitch-hack-leak-data-streamer-revenue-steam-competitor
https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/6/22712365/twitch-data-leak-breach-security-confirmation-comments

I'll start reading this, but I'd be willing to bet this was some
process vulnerability when doing the ownership handoff between Twitch
and Amazon.
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Re: [DNG] Living Dangerously (was: Review of documentation needed)

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:16:21 +
g4sra via Dng  wrote:

> A rookie sysadmin mistake is to take backups but never ever do a test
> restore to ensure they are OK.

Can confirm.

I had a backup persistency file which felt "old" when I tried using it.

Backups seemed to be going impressively fast; suspiciously fast.

I finally figured out that it wasn't because it was a huge file that
was being skipped, but that it wasn't ever being backed up /
overwritten in the first place.

Of course its size wouldn't change, but apparently a persistency file
doesn't get its modification time changed when it's written-within.  I
never would have guessed..
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:26:52 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> I'm a little afraid that people with insufficient knowledge, or with
> political agendas, will water it down with bullshit.

Is this the problem, and only problem, you want to solve?

Is this a problem that _needs_ to be solved?


> Only skilled people can modify source code, but any fool can modify
> documentation.

I resemble that remark.  :)

There are essays and there is documentation out there which has been
formative to me, some of which I've taken and adapted.  Were I to
release something, the fact that it's my name backing it will mean
whatever it means to a reader.  I could misrepresent my work as coming
from someone else, but the fact that I'm hosting it would reveal the
lie.

I think it's the collection of names authenticated by where it's hosted
which matters, and if "any fool" modifies it, that matters only as a
curiosity if it isn't "committed upstream" so-to-speak.

Also, if each release or diff were signed via PGP by contributors, that
might be useful so it can be hosted anywhere.


When I think about it, I suppose the protectionism would be to prevent
someone else from modifying it, representing it as theirs, slapping
licensing on it then sending lawyers after others.
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:

> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
> was really not worth running. 

I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
yet though.
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Re: [DNG] malfunctioning graphical application

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:58:34 +0200
Ludovic Bellière via Dng  wrote:

> As it stand, aisleriot is part of the gnome suite and thus depends on
> GTK3. Maybe something in the framework changed that does not support
> your system anymore.

Oh my god if this turns out to be the case I will laugh so damned hard;
I hear that GTK3 has a history of springing changes on people.


(Yes I'm still salty about needing to hold the alt key down to see
underlines in menu items.)
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Re: [DNG] Are .udeb files also to be installed after a source build?

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 11:06:01 +0200
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> That was quite common on Sharp Zaurus :)

Gasp!  I still have mine.  :)
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Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 17:02:17 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Wikis are often backed by revision management to make it asy for
> administrators to bck out of spam.
> To make sure they are backed up, use a distributed revivion management
> system and make sure there are multiple repositories.

The problem is that a huge amount of work ends up being foisted onto a
sysadmin.  Hosting aside, there are plugins for anti-spam, user
management and all kinds of random things which shouldn't be left in
the hands of random people.

I still maintain that collaborative documentation is best done on a
wiki maintained by a few dedicated people though.

Also do note that it's possible to do wiki-like stuff using git wikis
and flat files (likely markdown) at least on GitHub.  I don't know if
this sort of thing is reasonable with other systems.
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Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2021 16:21:47 +0930
dva...@internode.on.net wrote:

> On 30.07.21 11:28, spiralofhope wrote:>
> > I also mean that if there are any complex ideas or words, those can
> > be explained in separate specific-documentation in the same way that
> > code does it.

> My preferred method for nesting descriptive prose, and presenting the 
> whole on one page, is to use folding in vim.

I understand this method.

However, I disagree with it because it introduces a software dependency
and something like a new workflow.

Breaking out specific blocks of documentation to a new file is similar
to splitting out a chunk of code and putting it in a new file.  It has
side benefits like allowing a specialist to work on that chunk of text
separately.

All of this, including collaboration to improve it, reminds me of a
wiki, but I'm biased because I was very heavily interested in wikis at
(and well before) their rise.
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[DNG] Documentation, pseudocode, code (was: Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed)

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:31:39 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:10:24 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message 
> 
> > I ofter predocument -- explain what my code is intended to do
> > before I write it. 
> 
> ...and what a lot of bug hunters would wanna have handy to answer the 
> "What the F*** were they even trying to do here???" debugging things.

I like the notion of having a planning document which is then copied
into pseudocode, which is then transformed into comments-and-code.

- The code borrows from the grammar of the pseudocode to keep it
  almost-language.

- Terse comments; a simplification of anything that should stay
  actual-language.

- Explanation comments.

I think negatively of explanation, and keep the mindset to wonder if
it's because the code itself is unclear, and therefore "bad" (which it
may or may not be).

Those explanations are often justifications:  "Not mine", "I was told
this is correct", legacy code, licensed code etc.


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Re: [DNG] Marker

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:10:34 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> This email was to mark the point I got to in my outline of everything
> that's been said in the DNG software authoring standards, because my
> email client (claws-mail) doesn't have a bookmarking capability, as
> far as I know.

I also use Claws Mail.  It has a "mark" feature.

Message > Mark > Mark

If you're in the right mode/setting, you can hover over that menu entry
and press your desired hotkey.

It will then also flag the folder which has any marked item.

You can also assign a hotkey to jump to the next flagged message.

View > Go to > Next marked message

Hope that helps.
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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:04:17 +0100
Rowland Penny via Dng  wrote:

> On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> ... at least we don't describe things as male or
> female as some of the European languages do.

We're starting to.

There's this push that "man" doesn't mean "human".

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Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:40:30 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> g4sra via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:16:31 +
> 
> 
>  [...]  
> 
> O!
> 
> Makes perfect sense now. Thanks g4sra and spiralofhope. That's a good
> idea, although one screenfull sounds a little too short for prose, to
> me. But that's just a spectrum judgment call type of thing.
> 
> I have to think about that. It could revolutionize documentation. Let
> me give that some thought.

I also mean that if there are any complex ideas or words, those can be
explained in separate specific-documentation in the same way that code
does it.
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Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate

[spiralofhope]

Once this gets complex enough it'll need to be self-hosting in a sense;
check the rules against the rules -- de-duplicate, simplify, add
documentation, etc.  :)

Internal consistency?  I don't know the correct term offhand.
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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:33:10 +0200
al3xu5  wrote:

> 11) Document and document and document all the code (vars, functions,
> errors etc. ... all)

It was mentioned earlier; variables and functions wouldn't need much
(if any) documentation if they were long and descriptive.

I like using short phrases, and sometimes I use poor grammar because it
supports consistency between similar items.
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Re: [DNG] ntp setup

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 13:10:24 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com said on Fri, 9 Jul 2021 03:47:14 -0700
> 
>  [...]  
> >> If local time suddenly lurches forward or backward a great
> >> distance, already running processes may get very distressed or
> >> fall over, log files will become very peculiar, etc.
> >
> >I saw a YouTube video that demonstrated how 3D printing produces
> >jittery items even with tiny time updates.  
> 
> Define "tiny".

As I recall it was occasional fractions of a second.

I went looking for the video in question, but it's not my field and
it's been long enough that I can't think of the right keywords to search
with or recall the distribution or other technical details.


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Re: [DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 03:34:46 -0700
 wrote:

> Audacity is now restricted from minors, violating GPL:
> https://technewsinc.com/after-its-acquisition-audacity-takes-care-of-its-users-data/

Maybe I misunderstand; I found some discussion on this topic:
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/1249

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Re: [DNG] ntp setup

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 13:15:13 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> If local time suddenly lurches forward or backward a great distance,
> already running processes may get very distressed or fall over, log
> files will become very peculiar, etc.

I saw a YouTube video that demonstrated how 3D printing produces
jittery items even with tiny time updates.
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Re: [DNG] ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity ditches spyware.

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 07:09:18 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> ..tenacity replaces Audacity like Devuan replaces Debian? Tenacity
> ditches spyware:  FLOSS Audacity Fork without any Telemetry or
> Reporting: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity

I'm pleased with Audacity's implementation.

These are relevant:

https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/835
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions/889
> Just to reiterate, telemetry is completely optional and disabled by
> default.


Of note:

Audacity was acquired by Muse Group.

"I’m Now in Charge of Designing Audacity. Seriously." 
Tantacrul:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMWNvwLiXIQ

Audacity is now restricted from minors, violating GPL:
https://technewsinc.com/after-its-acquisition-audacity-takes-care-of-its-users-data/
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Re: [DNG] Devuan eBook Reader

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 24 May 2021 19:25:16 +
g4sra via Dng  wrote:

> Has anyone attempted to put Devuan on an eBook yet ?

Devuan is Debian without systemd.  Check with the Debian people.


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Re: [DNG] Strange browser home

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 23 May 2021 09:01:51 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Interesting.  Makes me wonder if, when firefox is started with a 
> file:/// style URL it bothers to pass the content of that file to the 
> remote firefox...  Probably not

A commandline with a file:// reference will just start or switch to
Firefox in the same way that passing a URL will.  Firefox would then
perform the action as-appropriate.  So if it is given either of

  http://example.com/foo.pdf

or

  file:///path/to/foo.pdf

it will act the same, probably fetching and rendering the PDF inline.

(Although I don't know how, specifically, it loads or caches files from
remote or local sources and if it does it differently for those two
scenarios.)
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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 14 May 2021 14:27:15 +0200
"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult"  wrote:

> On 09.05.21 08:33, tito via Dng wrote:
> 
> > So the first question that arises is:
> > how could open source and free software projects ensure
> > protection from damage up to data loss if actually even proprietary
> > software comes with no warranty at all?  
> 
> Make it crystal clear, that our software is neither a product, nor
> service, nor anything near to any commercial thing, but instead just
> a piece of art, like a novel or a poem.

A programming language used to write code is not different than the
English an author uses to write a story.

It would take some effort to explain, but programming and authoring do
map to one another.

For example, it's a long-time pursuit for many programmers to author
more natural language-like readable code.

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Re: [DNG] network measurement

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:40:51 +0300
Dimitris via Dng  wrote:

> do you ping anything while on these delays? if you're losing many 
> packages, then i'd call ISP first to check dsl line..

I once had significant packet loss and my ISPs solution was to actually
_lower_ my speeds to reduce it.

I have no idea how any of that works though.
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[DNG] Editing old git commit messages (was: Script to migrate buster desktop to beowulf v1.8)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:30:29 +0200
tito via Dng  wrote:

> https://git.devuan.org/farmatito/migration
> ...
> p.s.: is there a way to edit committed commit messages?


I have not tested this:

https://docs.github.com/en/github/committing-changes-to-your-project/changing-a-commit-message#amending-older-or-multiple-commit-messages

I don't believe that's GitHub-specific.

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Re: [DNG] Screen flickering

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:32:30 +0200
Antony Stone  wrote:

> As for a repair, I have no idea what it's like trying to get inside
> Dell laptops.



On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:37:54 +0200
Bernard Rosset via Dng  wrote:

> ... Dell Latitude 7400 laptop I have ...

I'd gamble that it's easy to service it.

There probably won't be any gotchas like what Apple does to actively
sabotage repairs.


My notes from the Inspiron 3180 are really this simple:

1.  Turn it over to see its bottom

2.  In the middle there is a small plastic cap covering a screw.

3.  Carefully pry it up. Nine screws should be visible, remove them

4.  Place the laptop bottom-down

5.  Open it as you usually would (screen facing you, touchpad in front
of you)

6.  The edge closest to you dips down right in the middle. This
is what gives you a small opening with which you opened the laptop
a moment ago. Notice the top of the laptop is a plate with the
keyboard and touchpad in it.

7.  Pry up the keyboard-plate at the dip in the front. Be sure to use
a plastic flexible tool that is wide, otherwise you will damage the
plastic.
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Re: [DNG] Default logins for ARM images?

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:33:48 -0700
Gregory Nowak via Dng  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 12:30:45PM +0200, Lars Noodén via Dng wrote:
> > I'm looking at an ARM image for Beowulf, but cannot find where the
> > default password is annotated.  It's not on either of these pages:
> > 
> > https://arm-files.devuan.org/
> > https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan
> > 
> > And no README file seems to be present.  What is the default
> > user/password for those images?  
> 
> I also am unable to find where this is documented. If memory serves
> though, the user is root, and the password is toor (root
> backwards). Try if that works.

The default password is documented here:

https://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/devuan/README.txt
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Re: [DNG] Netiquette

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 13:58:57 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Personally, I deliberately break the thread by snipping In-Reply-To
> (or use mutt's new-message command, which amounts to the same thing)
> if the new discussion will be semantically quite different from the
> old one.

This makes a lot of sense since there is thread-level ignore
functionality out there, for example with Claws Mail.
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Re: [DNG] My Qemu LAN-peer documentation is now in its first draft

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 01:34:40 +1100
Ralph Ronnquist via Dng  wrote:

> For bare-metal hardware I believe there is a first possible "race"
> between different modules (that handle different card types), and a
> second possible "race" for multiple same-type cards, which are handled
> by the one and same module.

I've always found this strange..

Is there nothing like hard drives' UUID?
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Re: [DNG] I'm going to need to make a block diagram of bridge/tap/qemu networking

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:38:36 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> There's only one solution: I need
> to learn enough about bridge devices, tap devices, and VM guest
> networking that I can draw a block diagram of the entire networking
> situation, so I can intelligently probe any interaction point for
> troubleshooting, enabling me to intelligently narrow down the root
> cause of failure.

Incoming documentation!  :D
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Beowulf 3.1.0 point release

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 20:36:58 -0500
fsmithred via Dng  wrote:

> Devuan Beowulf 3.1.0 point release

Confirmed that devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso works with
ventoy-1.0.35 (installed via Windows 10).  I highly recommend checking
out Ventoy.

Persistence works, based on its instructions for an older version of
Debian.

Loading Devuan into RAM also seemed to work just fine (including with
on-stick persistence), but I didn't do much testing.

Unfortunately this version of Devuan has some significant issues with
my laptop that I haven't started troubleshooting, but it otherwise
seems to work well.


However,

devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64_minimal-live.iso does NOT work with
ventoy-1.0.35 (installed via Windows 10).

I get:

> No bootfile found for UEFI!
> Maybe the image does not support X64 UEFI!

I assume it's working as intended.  :)



--

Ventoy:  https://www.ventoy.net/
Ventoy notes:  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=69628
Ventoy persistence:  https://ventoy.net/en/plugin_persistence.html

Devuan notes:
https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=5856#2021-02-15_devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64_desktop-live
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Re: [DNG] librewolf

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 07:28:27 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> But I suspect that, lik firefox, it will make a brave attempt to use
> up ALL of my RAM. 

It claims to be "performance aware", which I expect means yes it will
make that trade-off.
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Re: [DNG] Another document listing systemd deficiencies

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:32:22 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> This is a fun document:
> 
> https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/


> ... machinectl ... a program which contains sudo, su and kill (and
> does some functions which historically ssh/telnet did) ...

systemd documentation is creepypasta.
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[DNG] obsoleting a login manager (was: What I learned at Distrowatch)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 21:15:32 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:53:35 +0100
> Didier Kryn  wrote:
> 
> 
> >     I don't make it an argument against xdm. Just cheating about
> > your own arguments (~:  
> 
> Didier, why didn't you make that suggestion to me 15 years ago? It's a
> brilliant way to guarantee that if somebody logs out of X, they have
> no logged in shell to make mischief with.
> 
> I should have thought of that myself. 15 years ago :-).


I'll make an argument against xdm and every login manager (for a
single user):  Just have the regular shell at certain TTYs launch X upon
login.  A snippet of it:

  \xinit  /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /usr/bin/X :$(( tty_to_use - 1 ))  \
  vt"$tty_to_use"  -auth "$( \tempfile  --prefix='serverauth.' )"
  
  logout

There's more code that makes the above work.  See:
https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/blob/master/live/zsh/dot_zsh/4-login.sh

It should work in dash.  It's only kept in a zsh dotfile out of
laziness.

My method has always felt dirty and insecure, and I don't know why I
haven't been using exec to remove the final process.  Maybe I just
didn't know any better.  I'll explore the problem one day later.

This notion is from my legacy days when I wanted to make Linux
"lighter".

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Re: [DNG] godaddy (was Your system is not supported by certbot-auto anymore.)

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 19:37:39 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Know any domain registrars that don't mess with the user?

I've used register4less.com for some time, and they're a bunch of geeks.
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[DNG] godaddy (was Your system is not supported by certbot-auto anymore.)

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 01:00:44 +1100
wirelessduck--- via Dng  wrote:

> A good move to switch from godaddy. Doesn’t really matter where you
> switch to, but godaddy appear to be a seriously unethical company.
> 
> https://www.webpronews.com/godaddy-elephant-killing-nodaddy-venovix/
> 
> https://www.wired.com/2007/01/godaddy-meet-no/
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2011/07/12/godaddy_shuts_down_nodaddy/

Some people claim that godaddy has observed their searches for new
a domain name registration and has later purchased them for itself.

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Re: [DNG] Jessie to Ascii upgrade

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:55:17 -0800
Patrick Bartek via Dng  wrote:

> I do run a little file manager -- xfe.

What a wonderful program; I'll add it to my toolkit as an alternative
to spacefm.



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Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 19:22:34 -0700
Marc Shapiro via Dng  wrote:

> Sorry, spiralofhope.  I didn't6 mean to send this to you, but to the
> list.

I'll re-send this to the list then.  :)



On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 19:15:42 -0700
Marc Shapiro  wrote:

> I think they have already obfuscated things.
> 
> I used to use the Video Download Helper plugin for Firefox, but that 
> stopped working for me.  

I know there were some issues with youtube-dl, and I switched to
youtube-dlc because it included some unapproved pull requests.

I checked, and I'm able to download your examine (sgN7fUGPgMM).  If you
want, I can provide it.

I can also supply a 64bit binary or the repository I kept.

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Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted

[spiralofhope]

With my apologies for the multiple messages.. but ..

> this repo contains the text of DMCA takedown notices and
> counter-notices we've received here at GitHub
> ...
> we believe that transparency on a specific and ongoing level is
> essential to good governance
> 
> -- https://github.com/github/dmca

So..

https://github.com/github/dmca/tree/416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f



On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:36:08 -0700
spiralofhope  wrote:

> This made me laugh; using the tool to get the tool's source:
> 
> 
> youtube-dl -o - https://youtu.be/hyqLv2_zBdA | ffmpeg -i - \
> -vf scale=120:-1,eq=contrast=10 -sws_flags neighbor -pix_fmt \
> monob -f rawvideo yt_dl.tar.gz




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Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted

[spiralofhope]

This made me laugh; using the tool to get the tool's source:


youtube-dl -o - https://youtu.be/hyqLv2_zBdA | ffmpeg -i - \
-vf scale=120:-1,eq=contrast=10 -sws_flags neighbor -pix_fmt \
monob -f rawvideo yt_dl.tar.gz
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[DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted

[spiralofhope]

TL;DR:  YouTube-dl DMCA





The RIAA successfully applied a DMCA takedown to GitHub (Microsoft) for
an archivism program which downloads YouTube video/audio (although it
does target other services).

https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/
https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md

I expect that YouTube will obfuscate the way it delivers content so
as to make the existing youtube-dl release (and other similar software)
nonfunctional (perhaps only for a time).

Curiously there was recently a bit of drama and then a fork (also
DMCA'd) over the problem of urgent youtube-dl pull requests being left
unreviewed.  I have no proof for this instance, but I've always
maintained that controlled forks, or for a few thousand dollars the
right developers, could be made to drag their feet and damage FOSS
alternatives / etc; it might be cheaper than lawyers, FUD, lobbyists
etc.

The developer(s) are alive and its website still has a download, but
they're a hair away from being targeted more directly.

https://youtube-dl.org/

Sure there have been "protest forks" already, but that alone doesn't
mean anything unless efforts centre around one in particular.

Where other people will be focused on the code, I'm concerned about the
documentation.  All of the wikis, pull requests, inline code-comments,
issues and their conversation have been purged.

(Not many people even think to clone a project's separate GitHub wiki
repository.)

But back to YouTube itself.  The inability to download videos will
have an impact in that "inconvenient" videos can't so easily be kept,
fair-use commentated-upon, and (re-)uploaded.  Everyday people wouldn't
be able to signal boost or contribute to a Streisand effect, making
videos (and people) easier to memoryhole.


GitHub is obviously untrustworthy for mirrors/forks.  These are likely
to stay up longer:

https://source.netsyms.com/Mirrors/l1ving_youtube-dl
https://git.datahoarder.dev/whalehub/l1ving_youtube-dl
https://gitea.datahoarding.agency/ZenulAbidin/youtube-dl
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Re: [DNG] Xorg stopped working after upgrade to Beowulf

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 20:30:53 +0200
viverna  wrote:

> or xinit with custom command line, for example:
> xinit /home/user/.xinitrc -- /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc :0 vt2 -keeptty

I had some entertainment dealing with this problem over the years.
When I switched to Devuan I had to tinker a bit.  I can't remember any
of the details, but this is what I ended with in my zsh login script:



string="$TTY"
# I don't know why this works, even though $TTY is actually /dev/pts1
pattern='/dev/tty'
tty_to_use=''
# I could rewrite this in POSIX sh if someone needs
tty_to_use="${string##${pattern}}"
tty_to_use="${string##*${pattern}}"

xinit  /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /usr/bin/X :$(( tty_to_use - 1 ))  \
vt"$tty_to_use"  -auth "$( \tempfile  --prefix='serverauth.' )"

logout





If anyone really really wants to dig through my history of desperate
experimentation throughout multiple Linuxes:

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/commits/master/live/zsh/dot_zsh/4-login.sh
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[DNG] POSIX shell scripting (was: Danger: Debian POSIX hostility)

[spiralofhope]

In response to nobody in particular..

I've always started shells with

#!/usr/bin/env  sh

I now go *way* out of my way to not just remove bashisms but replace
anything I can with POSIX compatible code.  Call it puritanism as
practice.

I lint with Shellcheck:

http://www.shellcheck.net/

The pure sh bible has been a big help:

https://github.com/dylanaraps/pure-sh-bible

Here are some examples of replacing "standard" software:

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/blob/master/live/sh/scripts/examples/replace-head.sh

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/blob/master/live/sh/scripts/examples/replace-dirname.sh


--


If anyone wants to see the lengths I've gone to:

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/tree/master/live/sh/scripts

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/tree/master/live/sh/scripts/examples

Of course it's slower to use scripts that summon other scripts, as my
repository does, but it's easy enough to copy-paste functions into the
primary script.  Only startup scripts are time-sensitive for me, and
everything else gains great clarity by separating functions out into
separate scripts.


In my preemptive defence, my style is clean and clear to me and allows
for reading using columns.  With that, a simple idea becomes a simple
script:

https://github.com/spiralofhope/shell-random/blob/master/live/sh/scripts/is-string-a-date？.sh


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Re: [DNG] RFC: wiki software

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 09:05:39 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Of course there's also mediawiki, which is the basis for the
> WIkipedia.

Unless something has changed, ACLs are explicitly absent from MediaWiki.
There have always been efforts by third parties to make it more
functional, but I'm of the opinion that security should be supported by
the core engine.

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Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 04 Sep 2020 20:22:56 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> On 2020-09-04 19:24, spiralofhope wrote:
> > On Fri, 04 Sep 2020 15:03:55 -0500
> > goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> >   
> >> ...2 new 500 GB WD Black drives...  
> 
> Not sure if they still have the 5 yr. warranty though . . .

They do, but be sure to make a login on their website to be certain.
You can register the serial number and check their records for it.
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Re: [DNG] Can this drive be saved?

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 04 Sep 2020 15:03:55 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> ...2 new 500 GB WD Black drives...

You have good taste.
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Re: [DNG] terminology

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 09:59:53 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Is there an establiched word in the Linux/Unix xommunity
> for something which might be a file or a directory?

Perhaps something like inode?
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Signature filtering (was: Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem)

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:03:13 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> flush-left two hyhens plus a single space character, and
> then immediate a hard return

Oh, I didn't know about the single space.

Thanks for that, and the rest.  Getting lore and detail is a challenge
for me for the older stuff, because there's just so much opinion to
wade through on the contemporary internet.


> Of course, if you're using, say, the internal IMAP4 support of Claw
> Mail, then you aren't using a separate MDA, and cannot leverage an
> MDA's filtering functions.

This is my case.  There is a filtering feature that can have a trigger
made to execute an external program.  It might be an interesting
exercise for me to make something now that I know more.

It also might be interesting for me to create a list of the non-standard
signatures (by their separator, or by the whole block of text) to be
treated the same way, allowing me to set aside the signature of known
regulars.

I've also still got lists of hand-collected taglines from my youth, and
I wonder if I can figure out how to insert random entries.


> McQ!  (4x80)

Now I understand this.  :)

As an aside, the RFC suggests a limit of 75, even for a signature, since
this leaves space for quoting.






Some research notes for others.


Standard for interchange of USENET messages:

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc1036/

"Son of 1036":

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc1849/

There's a lot of interesting stuff, but page 22 has:

   ...  If a poster or posting agent does append
   a signature to an article, the signature SHOULD be preceded with a
   delimiter line containing (only) two hyphens (ASCII 45) followed by
   one blank (ASCII 32).  Posting agents SHOULD limit the length of
   signatures, since verbose excess bordering on abuse is common if no
   restraint is imposed; 4 lines is a common limit.

also, on page 23:

  NOTE: Four 75-column lines of signature text is 300 characters,
  which is ample to convey name and mail-address information in all
  but the most bizarre situations.
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[DNG] [OT] Signature filtering (was: Devuan 3.0 Orca Problem)

[spiralofhope]

Incoming musing..


I haven't investigated the solution for email, but I would assume that
many email clients can filter out signatures.

However, when I went looking through my email client (Claws Mail [1]) I
couldn't find anything obvious!  Maybe I didn't look hard enough.

  - Perhaps I could find (or make) a plugin to show/hide (by default)
signatures based on content after various symbols (like dashes).

Bad ideas:

  - Script a solution to just remove content, summoned by a hotkey.  I
do this to let me raw-edit emails with control-e (so I can add
notes in them)
  - Have a pre-processor on each email as it's received.

These are bad ideas because they're destructive modifications.  Backups
are possible, but then you'd have to somehow know if destroyed content
is actually valuable to view.  Maybe the backups could be inserted as
attachments to each email that was thought to have a signature.

It would be awesome if that was implemented at the mailing list server
(mailman) level as a configuration option.  I checked, and at least
for this list it doesn't exist.  I'd argue that signatures are common
enough to justify implementing this complexity.

Signatures are a very old notion.  They are trivially hidden on most
forums because a signature is implemented as a separate text field.  In
old offline mail readers [2] (like Blue Wave [3] as I recall) it was
possible to hide such things.. but the idea might not have survived.



--

(this text is actually an example of a signature)

[1] Claws Mail
  https://www.claws-mail.org/
  my notes:  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=4509

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offline_reader

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Wave_(mail_reader)
   my notes (minor):  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=24393
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Re: [DNG] Deleted qemu image

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 11:35:20 +0100
fraser kendall  wrote:

> Best option:  1) can I retrieve the deleted qcow image from a running
> instance of that image?

The other suggestions are on the right track.  I myself have
"un-deleted" a file which was held open because it was in use by a
running process.

For sure do not terminate associated processes or power down.


> Fall back option: 2) does anyone know if a new installation of the
> (Dell) W7 iso will still activate now that W7 is EOL?

I'm fairly sure it will activate just fine; isn't the validity of the
activation done locally during the install anyway?
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie End of Life (EOL) archiving

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:52:12 +0200
richard lucassen via Dng  wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 05:58:11 -0300
> pekman  wrote:
> 
> > Slitaz is very good Linux distribution for old computers. See
> > slitaz.org  
> 
> The latest "news" is from 20 May 2015:
> 
> http://slitaz.org/en/news/

In its defence, it's a rolling release with its last major release
from 2018-11-18.

There is activity in its mailing list and forum:
https://listengine.tuxfamily.org/lists.tuxfamily.org/slitaz/
http://forum.slitaz.org/

It's listed as active here:
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=SliTaz
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[DNG] Non-systemd Linux for older hardware (was: Devuan Jessie End of Life (EOL) archiving)

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 16:53:19 +0200
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> A word of condolence to anybody fixed on old hardware. If you cannot
> upgrade, there is still the BSD-family which offer support down to
> 80486. And they, too, are systemd-free :)

It's been a while, but I wonder if Slackware would be the Linux
alternative:

  http://www.slackware.com/

There is a non-SMP (single processor) kernel mentioned here:

  http://www.slackware.com/releasenotes/14.2.php

I know Puppy is adamant about supporting older hardware, and there's a
Slackware-derived "Slacko Puppy":

  http://puppylinux.com/
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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:31:40 +0200
"J. Fahrner"  wrote:

It looks to me like your drive is in good health and supports (and
uses) all the good health features.

As the other poster suggested, using another drive to troubleshoot may
still be useful, but your drive appears fundamentally good.


--


optional:


> No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

FYI, and I don't think this is important because the other automated
self-checks passed, but if you ever want to do manual testing, you
could do:

A conveyance test is if you move it around a lot (it's USB after all)
and maybe drop it and want to check it quickly. This might not be
supported:
smartctl -t conveyance /dev/xxx

This is quite quick (minutes):
smartctl -t short /dev/xxx

If you have time (probably overnight, and I don't believe USB speed
matters):
smartctl -t long /dev/xxx

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Re: [DNG] Boot hangs with usb disk active in fstab

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:01:14 +0200
"J. Fahrner via Dng"  wrote:

> When this disk is active in /etc/fstab the boot process hangs
> forever.

I wonder if there's anything S.M.A.R.T. information can tell you.

There is a spinup time test, and I wonder if perhaps there is SMART
logging within the drive that could reveal a problem with the drive not
spinning up as quickly as it should, and maybe that is causing a
problem (somehow).

Keep in mind that not all USB docks will properly support SMART.

--

This may sound dumb, but does the drive _sound_ different when first
powered with the system, and does the sound change when it is mounted?
Does it sound like it's "waking up" only when you manually mount it?
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf upgrade from Ubuntu

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 08:29:01 -0700
kdibble  wrote:

I'm glad you got things sorted out.  Several of the things you mentioned
would have frustrated me.


> 5) Started adding a couple packages and apt asked for cdrom. I assumed
> it wanted usb stick, mounted it and nope, it wants a cdrom. Go in and
> delete cdrom from apt sources and we are running again.

This was one of the things that stumped me when I was pretty new to
Linux and had tried Debian years ago.

Years ago, and the problem is still around.  :(  It's a minor annoyance
now, but I had no idea back then.

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[DNG] Successful beowulf install in VirtualBox

[spiralofhope]

I succesfully installed Devuan:

  devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64 guest
  on VirtualBox 6.0.20-137117
  on Windows 10 host

This replaces Debian:

  Debian 10.1.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 guest
  on VirtualBox 6.0.22-137980
  on Windows 10 host

--

I have no complaints with my installation, including nuances available
only through the VirtualBox "Guest Additions" (shared folders,
copy-paste, dual screens).

One minor issue is that it does not resize into my full desktop
resolution when I fullscreen, but I don't care.

Fine work guys!

I had an intermittent audio hiccup issue under Debian 10.1.0-amd64
which I have yet to reproduce under Devuan.

--

Note that I had persistent issues using other versions of VirtualBox
which were solved with the specific version/build "6.0.20-137117":

  https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/6.0.20/

e.g. for Windows host:

  
https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/6.0.20/VirtualBox-6.0.20-137117-Win.exe
  
https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/6.0.20/Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack-6.0.20-137117.vbox-extpack
  
https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/6.0.20/VBoxGuestAdditions_6.0.20.iso

--

Notes and troubleshooting:

  
https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=6969#2020-06-05_6.0.20-137117_Devuan-beowulf_3.0.0_amd64
  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=5856#2020-06-05_devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64

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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:20:05 +0200
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> TDE with it's qt3 fork :)

Going down that rabbit hole, I see that Exe GNU/Linux uses it by
default and is also using Devuan.

This seems to be a trivial way for me to check out TDE at its finest.

http://exegnulinux.net/
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[DNG] panels (was Beowulf, and Apparmor's effect on bind9)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 23 May 2020 19:54:55 +0100 (BST)
Jim Jackson  wrote:

> Any recommendations for a better panel?

lxpanel is an old favorite, and tint2 is quite impressive.
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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 21:39:11 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> I eschew Occam's Razor in favor of Litt's Razor, which can be
> paraphrased "Follow the money."

See also the maxim of Cassius:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono

"to whom is it a benefit?"
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Re: [DNG] tobacco patch? (OT)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 18:13:58 -0700
Ian Zimmerman  wrote:

> On 2020-05-16 16:51, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
> > What do you mean by "tobacco patch"?  
> 
> It's an analogy with a medical device used to help smokers with
> quitting.

Aah.

I would say "nicotine patch".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_patch
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Re: [DNG] without-systemd.org not working

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 03:06:37 +1000
wirelessduck--- via Dng  wrote:

> > On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org
> > isn't working (it throws database error):
> 
> It looks to have been resurrected by someone else at
> https://without-systemd.frama.wiki/ but I can’t verify for it’s
> authenticity or content.


TL;DR - WONTFIX



Checking archives, it looks to have died in June 2019 with this as the
last snapshot (from the Wayback Machine, I did not check other
archives):

https://web.archive.org/web/20190531032538/http://without-systemd.org:80/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


I have a note from 2016-11-08 that said it had dated and incorrect
information (with nothing specific cited).  I don't know if the
website was improved/corrected between then and that 2019-05-31
archive, and I don't know if that frama.wiki is an updated fork or just
an archive.

When I check the whois record:

https://godaddy.com/whois/results.aspx?domain=without-systemd.org

I see that without-systemd.org was updated 2019-10-02.  Since that
update is after the site died (2019-06-nn), I'm guessing the website has
was abandoned, and there won't be any interest in fixing it.  :(

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Re: [DNG] Waterfox issues under Devuan ASCII

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 19:04:45 +
aitor_czr  wrote:

> http://www.gnuinos.org/screenshots/Screenshot_2020-04-11_18-14-41.png
> At least, i only need a few features like management for my bookmarks
> and ability to have several websites opened at the same time in
> different tabs.

Related:  Tabbed

Simple generic tabbed frontend to xembed-aware applications, originally
designed for surf but also usable with many other applications..

http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/
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Re: [DNG] HW: Which brand and model of lapto have your successfully installed Devuan on?

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:56:07 +1000
terryc  wrote:

> Which brand and model(s) of laptop have people successfully installed
> devuan onto?

I have a $300 (CAD) Dell Inspiron 11 3180.  According to my mid 2018
notes I tried Devuan_ascii_2.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso and had issues
with graphics being corrupt.  I didn't troubleshoot.

This isn't a daily driver; it's a toy that I ended up putting Lubuntu
18.10 amd64 on.



> How difficult was it?

Booting from USB was annoying to figure out:

https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=38871#booting-from-usb

--

In general, I was interested in Dell brand laptops because of their
explicit Ubuntu support, meaning that Devuan would likely work fine.
They also have *spectacular* support.

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Re: [DNG] A way of holding telephone-conferences with DEVUAN?

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 12:07:56 +0200
Raul Claro  wrote:

>      is there a way of holding a video- or an audioconference with 
> Firefox (or Vivaldi) on Devuan?  The ones I have come in contact
> with. such als /https://global.gotomeeting.com/, /work only with
> Windows or Mac and Chrome.
> 
>   Are there any Debian/Devuan alternatives to these systems?

As an aside, gab.com has been working on its own alternative, but they
haven't released any details (or source code) and I wouldn't be
surprised if it became a paid service for significant use.


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[DNG] PGP (was: Beowulf Beta is here!)

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 13:14:41 -0400
Dan Purgert  wrote:

> Your trust in my key (and therefore, my signature) should not be
> founded on _where_ you got it from, but your own personal web of
> trust made up of (hopefully!) people you know and trust to do their
> due diligence for confirming I am me.

It used to be a thing that, in person, I'd trade keys just like normies
trade business cards.


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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 12:03:53 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> LXDE
> is one of many projects who looked at the dismaying near-total rewrite
> required for migrating to GTK3 (and GTK's increasing GNOME-centric
> nature) and made the agonising decision to bail and migrated sideways
> to Qt.

If memory serves, GTK3 has had a history of incredibly stupid decisions
mid-version which broke a number of things like aspects of themes.  For
example, my GTK3 apps no longer have underlined hotkeys until I hold
the alt key.

I just re-confirmed with spacefm (gtk2) versus spacefm-gtk3.


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Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 13:20:24 -0700
tom  wrote:

> My advice is to stop buying X86 in the future and invest in other
> arches.

I love that virtualization has come so far that I don't have to care
what I run my stuff on.

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Re: [DNG] The real reason I like Linux

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:59:28 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> For me, it's all about POSIX.

I immediately understood the UNIX philosophy when I first heard
of it; tiny, single-purpose programs which can be stitched together.

I agreed with it, but found all the tools incredibly complex mainly
because of shit documentation and poor examples.  I don't (technically)
program, so I started writing all that as I went along.

I've grown tired over the years though, preferring the lazy user side of
things.  I never really did proper programming, but it's very
fulfilling to script my own stuff.



For example, I don't need a GUI screenshot program when I can summon
this with an Openbox hotkey:

\sh  -c "\
  \urxvt  -title 'screenshot'  -geometry 120x50+0+0  -e \\
\dialog  --no-shadow  --msgbox  'screenshot' 0 0 ;\\
\scrot  --select  'screenshot--%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M:%S--$wx$h.png'  --exec  '\mv  
$f  /l/live/__ ; \gpicview /l/live/__/$f' \\
"



Oh, and since I'm on that and we have some Openbox people.. guess what
this does:

\sh  -c "\
  \geany \\
$( \realpath  ~/.themes/minimal-spiralofhope/openbox-3/themerc ) \\
$( \realpath  ~/.config/openbox/rc.xml ) ;\ 
  \waitpid  $! ;\
  \openbox  --reconfigure ;\
  \waitpid  $! ;\
  \xrefresh \\
"



The problem for me is how to share things so they're discoverable.  I've
got a GitHub repository, but.. that's not exactly connected to search
engines (maybe one day to Bing?), especially since I don't really
describe every little script in a way that users could type in keywords
to discover.



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Re: [DNG] What can even possibly go wrong?

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:25:01 +0100
Martin Steigerwald  wrote:

> To use the own home directory on different laptops? 

This is a first-world problem if I've ever heard one, and a sad waste of
manpower when there are other programming problems.

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Re: [DNG] FF now defaults to DNS-over-HTTPS for US

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 11:49:57 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> > 'grey' rather than 'grey': because it's much greyer that way.  
>   'gray'
> 
> See, even when I set out to adopt quaint USAnaian spelling, I
> sometimes can't quite manage it.

This helps me remember:

E for English   "grEy"
A for American  "grAy"
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Re: [DNG] FF now defaults to DNS-over-HTTPS for US

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:08:28 -0600
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/25/mozilla_turns_on_dns_over_https_by_default_for_usa/

} Another relevant question is whether further centralisation of the
} internet is, inherently, a bad thing. ®

Whoa boy.
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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 23:07:33 +0100
aitor  wrote:

> On 1/3/20 11:56, spiralofhope wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 04:12:07 -0500
> > Steve Litt  wrote:
> >
> >> OpenBox, which I consider the best of the bunch if you don't need a
> >> panel
> > My vote is for fbpanel or lxpanel.
> My vote is for tint2.

Wow, it's been almost 11 years since I've checked it out.  It's come a
long way.  A big +1 on this; it'll do solid GUI config and easy
multi-monitor support.

I've got things set up with lxpanel how I like, but tint2 will be my
alternative.
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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 04:12:07 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> OpenBox, which I consider the best of the bunch if you don't need a
> panel

My vote is for fbpanel or lxpanel.


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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:44:10 +0100
Harald Arnesen via Dng  wrote:

> Do you drink beer or wine, Pepsi or Coke? Same thing.

emacs or vi, it's all text.  ;)
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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 16:29:58 +0100
al3xu5 / dotcommon  wrote:

> and I would like a
> de that has the least dependencies but also remains stable and
> "comfortable" in configuration, personalization and use...

I've only had XFCE experience out of your three, and that's really only
because I prefer Openbox.  My install inherits a lot of simple UI and
hotkeys that I've customized over the years[1] (all the way from
Blackbox), but I wouldn't call it particularly easy to customize if
you're looking for GUI tools outside of basic window style/colors.

Regarding "stable and comfortable".  They have a large user base and are
mature projects, so they're stable.  Devuan inherits these things from
Debian.  For comfortable, all DEs are, by their nature, kind of the same
thing until you look at philosophy-oddities like those built around
something like ratpoison.[2]

Regarding dependencies, is this simply a philosophy issue or is there
some reason behind this?  There could be "a lot" of dependencies for
one DE, but it's because the design is to shatter all the functionality
into independent specialized packages, which is actually a really great
thing.  If you're concerned about "lightness" then that's difficult to
pin down and there are a lot of poorly-backed claims about this.
Lightness tends to be another philosophy issue and isn't at all
important to today's computers until you get to environments with 3D
windowing effects and the like.

I don't think a desktop environment would have any impact on your
choice of applications.  I've also run without pulseaudio and most of
your applications with no difficulty. (Though I'm not familiar with icc
color management at all, does that matter to the desktop environment?)



[1]  
https://github.com/spiralofhope/misc-configuration/blob/master/live/openbox/rc.xml
[2]  http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
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Re: [DNG] Terrible reporting / puff piece about systemd

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 02:11:33 +1100
Andrew McGlashan via Dng  wrote:

> https://fossforce.com/2020/02/the-verdict-on-systemd-is-in/

> Critics claimed systemd’s centralized controls violate the Unix
> philosophy of using one small program for a single, limited purpose.

Claimed?  Isn't this an objective fact?  This point lost me, and I'll
just skip straight to the juicy, juicy, comments.
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Re: [DNG] Embrace extend and extinguish (was: Devuan /etc/os-relase - no VERSION info?)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 16:17:08 +0100
viverna  wrote:

> I think that Poettering will shift it in the future to binary file
> and an command like systemd-read-binary-os-release to read it...

I just died a little inside..
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Re: [DNG] systemd breaking linuxcnc ...

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 16:46:56 +
Rainer Weikusat via Dng  wrote:

> some people are passionately convinced that non-local time is a
> misfeature

*glares at satellites*


;)
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Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists

[spiralofhope]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 15:30:28 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Because GMail
> enforces at the time of receipt the declared DMARC policies of what
> is asserted to be the source domain of an arriving mail, and because
> yahoo.com has an r=reject DMARC policy and its declared roster of
> authorised origins for yahoo.com mail doesn't include Dng's MTA host, 
> Gmail 55x-rejects Gmail User's copy.  He/she never sees Yahoo User's
> posting.  Worse, Mailman takes note of the 55x rejetion, and
> increments GMail User's bounce score, in effect sanctioning Gmail
> User for Yahoo User's domain's (IMO) problem-causing antiforgery
> procedures.
> 
> After a few such incidents, Gmail User gets his/her delivery disabled
> and eventually unsubscribed.

Thank you for the lesson.  It all, and I think the above in particular,
is just the thing I needed to learn to approach the admins of the list
I've had such problems with.

Now I can move away from "nefarious shadowbanning" to actual
troubleshooting.

  (This topic is new to me.  I always thought email was wholly
  unreliable and we'd one day just use PGP for actual authenticity.)
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Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 13:46:12 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> What happens if Debian stops supporting sysvinit, or worse, installs
> Halloween Code to greatly complicate systemd replacement?

I wasn't familiar with the term "Halloween Code".  Is this a reference
to Microsoft's internal strategy memorandums?

https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween1.html
https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween2.html
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[DNG] [OT] Louis Rossmann (was Catching up)

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 04:00:48 +1100
Andrew McGlashan via Dng  wrote:

> Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann

I am in particular.  He was a pure Linux user for the longest time, but
abandoned it to great success and with no regrets.

I engaged him on this topic a little after his transition and his
response was the unsurprising "I would if"..

He ended up aspiring higher than the tools, his time and his interest.


Anyhow, some trivia..
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Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)

[spiralofhope]

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:47:49 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Ergo, often one of the places mailing
> lists first notice delivery problems owing to aggressive DMARC
> policies is among subscribers receiving their subscription mail on
> GMail, who suddenly aren't getting some mailing list traffic, report
> their subscriptions disabled on account of mysteriously high 'bounce
> scores' or get mysteriously unsubscribed (for the same reason).

If an email address successfully receives a few emails but then gets
automatically unsubscribed later, could this be why?

(Or would problematic settings means that no emails would ever be
received in the first place?)
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Re: [DNG] :-) Don't get into a pissing contest with Rick Moen

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 15:27:00 +1100
Andrew McGlashan via Dng  wrote:

> If you make a valid point and it
> gets argued, then argue until it stops or your argument (or theirs) is
> falling on death ears ... or you just give up, then move on.
> Although I don't expect to win pissing contests (especially with
> Rick), I tend to decide that the other opinion /may/ be true or not
> and simply beg to differ when there is clear relevance on both sides
> of the argument, ending any potential and wasteful continued posts
> about the matter.

It's also worth nothing that third party lurkers to a conversation may
be highly interested in learning from an exchange (if it can be
continued with moderate value) when they wouldn't want to enter into it
to, say, directly ask something.

For example, a pissing contest resulting from a troll "hey guys what's
the deal with systemd lol" might yield a lot to others.
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Re: [DNG] Fw: looking for a replacement for debian since systemd

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:01:22 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> Predatory Interdependency

This language reminds me of the old Microsoft "Embrace, extend, and
extinguish"[1] topic.




--

[1]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
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Re: [DNG] INJ - Init Freedom inJector (was: cannot exist without the help of Debian)

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 18:31:25 +0100
viverna  wrote:

> I propose this: a script called INJ - Init Freedom inJector
> 
> I wrote this summer in this list about a possibility of inject init
> run scripts (for example runit) in all Devuan packages automatically.
> 
> I'm writing a simple script that inject init diversity in a single 
> package.
> ...
> I would like to release the script in the next days with AGPL3 but
> tell me.


Do you mean AGPL3 as in the GNU Affero General Public License?

  https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html

If so, please don't use the language "AGPL3 or later" since the "or
later" could be a sabotaged license in the future.
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Re: [DNG] EvilGnome spyware

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:28:25 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> https://thehackernews.com/2019/07/linux-gnome-spyware.html

Since the keylogging functionality was unimplemented, I was reminded of
a point of trivia.  With the microphone or in combination with the
screen grabs, a sort of tempest attack could be made to get keystrokes.

Some old papers (search for "keyboard"):

  https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tygar/publications.htm

(I haven't read up on this myself)
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Re: [DNG] Systemd depends on random numbers in order to work properly

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:07:20 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> I loosely attach my mouse to my stationary bike in such a way that the
> mouse's LED shines on the stationary bike's belt, building up entropy.
> Within 10 seconds boot begins!

I would prefer a steam car-style hand crank.

I smell a Kickstarter.
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Re: [DNG] removed encrypted file system? was date of publication of beowulf

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:41:18 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> Due to #765854 ecryptfs-utils has been removed from
> Buster.

http://debian.2.n7.nabble.com/Bug-928956-Document-removal-of-ecryptfs-utils-from-Buster-td4512502.html

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=765854

systemd-user doesn't properly close its PAM session
  https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/8598




--


I just happened to have removed reliance on it to simplify my system.
I'm now glad I did.
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Re: [DNG] What do you think of Wayland?

[spiralofhope]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:53:20 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> What do you think of Wayland? I hear Buster now defaults to Wayland.

I had been waiting for it to come out into mainstream use for some time,
because of its supposed solutions to video playback screen tearing
issues.

I've always assumed Devuan will eventually adopt it.



> ... overly complexified mess from Redhat ...

Aw shit..
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Re: [DNG] Firefox-esr freezes ASCII

[spiralofhope]

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 06:24:56 -0400
fsmithred via Dng  wrote:

> What I do when it starts to slow down is ctrl-alt-F2, log in and
> start killing programs. Thunderbird is usually on that kill list,
> because it takes a lot of ram, too. If I wait too long to do that, it
> freezes. At some point, even sysrq keys won't work.

I recalled a program which automatically kills tasks which are being
hogs, which is an extreme and not-recommended workaround.  I couldn't
find it offhand, but I found other solutions out there which act like
that.  In theory, a monitoring script could be made for this, and even
made smart enough prompt for action (with a timeout for automatic
action).


Also, would ulimit be helpful?

https://ss64.com/bash/ulimit.html
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Re: [DNG] backups from ext4 to ntfs - extended attributes and access control lists

[spiralofhope]

On 2019-06-14 10:28, Mark Rousell wrote:

Although your notes are all about command line, you might like to add
a link for this handy shell extension to your notes: Link Shell
Extension



Done, thanks.
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Re: [DNG] backups from ext4 to ntfs - extended attributes and access control lists

[spiralofhope]

On 2019-05-28 15:53, Rick Moen wrote:
[1] Last I heard, Microsoft OSes had nothing quite like a symlink, 
which was
one reason why Cygwin was a bit of a kludge.  (They may have fixed 
that;

I wouldn't know

...

Yes, they are possible.

Notes:

  https://blog.spiralofhope.com/?p=13539

Tested in Windows 10, it's called a "Junction", using:

  mklink  /J
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Re: [DNG] suspicious firefox behaviour

[spiralofhope]

On 2019-01-30 18:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:

So I ask:  Why should firefox need to access the net to look at the
hard drive in the laptop.


Don't several web browsers have a "feature" to check that every visited 
URL is "safe"?  Maybe there's a bug where yours attempts to report your 
visited URL while offline.

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Re: [DNG] A concrete proposal [was: Re: Drive-by critique]

[spiralofhope]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 12:37:36 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> If anybody is wondering "how can I help Devuan" and is ready to do
> something concrete in that direction, putting together such a simple
> webpage would be a valuable contribution. 

I don't know how much I believe this myself, but..

Anyone who is wondering how they can help but can't hunt to figure
out the basics on their own is probably not going to contribute much or
for long.
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