Re: [DNG] information request
o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > I had just previously deleted the folder python3.9 but python3.10 was > right beside so thought deleting the previous would make more room (which I > desperately need!!). > > The solution *might* be as simple as creating a new symbolic link "python3" -> "python3.10" ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] information request
o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:37 AM Antony Stone > wrote: >> On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: >> >>> Greetings >>> >>> In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where >>> I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. >>> >>> /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found >>> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 >>> returned an error code (1) >>> E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 >>> >>> when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find >>> this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or >>> is seeing it poorly. >>> >>> When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. >>> >>> How do I resolve this - - - - -please? >> I found myself in exactly this situation recently. >> >> I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical >> volumes. I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from >> it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera. >> >> I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I >> simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS. >> >> Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having >> created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the >> Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was >> concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure). >> >> It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is >> highly >> misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter >> it >> expected to, not that the script itself could not be found. >> >> So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it >> will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink to >> something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist. >> >> I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need >> to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed. >> > I had just previously deleted the folder python3.9 but python3.10 was > right beside so thought deleting the previous would make more room (which I > desperately need!!). > > When looking at the first lines in apt-listchanges - - - well I'm no > programmer > but the code looks more like Perl to me with the use of the :: directives but > I dunno much about programming so that could be right out to lunch!!! > > Not seeing anything like what you're describing - - - sorry. > > When the tools to fix the broken tools don't work - - - - what are the > options? > Is there only a re-install? > (That would be scary - - - - this is a complicated system and I've got piles > of software installed!! - - - last time I did this things were quite hairy for > quite a while Not fun at all!) > > Thank you for the information - - - good to know that the error message > really doesn't connect with the real world - - - - I wasn't even able > to find any > references on the web - - - - ZERO - - - which - - I thought was sorta > unusual! > > Regards > I'm running on beowulf... your results may be slightly different Let's not worry about the code inside apt-listchanges, at this point. Just check the script interpreter for now ~$ head -n 1 /usr/bin/apt-listchanges should give a result similar to this: #!/usr/bin/python3 then, taking the result given, ~$ file /usr/bin/python3 should give another result similar to this: /usr/bin/python3: symbolic link to python3.7 then, check the target of that symbolic link: ~$ file /usr/bin/python3.7 the result is: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, . if any of these fails (for example, python3 may be a broken symbolic link to python3.7), then reinstalling python3 should fix the issue, hopefully. on the other hand, if this all checks out good, the problem may lie elsewhere. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] information request
On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 06:58:35 -0500 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:37 AM Antony Stone > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where > > > I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. > > > > > > /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found > > > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > > returned an error code (1) > > > E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > > > > > when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find > > > this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or > > > is seeing it poorly. > > > > > > When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. > > > > > > How do I resolve this - - - - -please? > > > > I found myself in exactly this situation recently. > > > > I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical > > volumes. I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from > > it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera. > > > > I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I > > simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS. > > > > Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having > > created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the > > Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was > > concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure). > > > > It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is > > highly > > misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter > > it > > expected to, not that the script itself could not be found. > > > > So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it > > will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink > > to > > something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist. > > > > I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need > > to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed. > > > > I had just previously deleted the folder python3.9 but python3.10 was > right beside so thought deleting the previous would make more room (which I > desperately need!!). > > When looking at the first lines in apt-listchanges - - - well I'm no > programmer > but the code looks more like Perl to me with the use of the :: directives but > I dunno much about programming so that could be right out to lunch!!! > > Not seeing anything like what you're describing - - - sorry. > > When the tools to fix the broken tools don't work - - - - what are the > options? > Is there only a re-install? > (That would be scary - - - - this is a complicated system and I've got piles > of software installed!! - - - last time I did this things were quite hairy for > quite a while Not fun at all!) > > Thank you for the information - - - good to know that the error message > really doesn't connect with the real world - - - - I wasn't even able > to find any > references on the web - - - - ZERO - - - which - - I thought was sorta > unusual! > > Regards Hi, as a last resort option you could try AT YOUR OWN RISK: rename apt-listchanges to apt-listchanges.bak create a dummy apt-listchanges by coping /bin/true to /usr/bin/apt-listchanges pray and restart your upgrade when/if done delete /usr/bin/apt-listchanges and rename /usr/bin/apt-listchanges.bak to /usr/bin/apt-listchanges Just to be sure reinstall apt-listchanges apt install --reinstall apt-listchanges Hope this helps. Ciao, Tito ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] information request
To: x
--text follows this line--
The PATH variable of your environment, or the environment that script is
running in, doesn't seem populated. Presumably, you had other issues
prior to that error and you may not have noticed them.
Now, there is an easy way to resolve a broken update. All you have to do
is list all the packages installed, store it in a file. Reinstall the OS
from scratch, and then feed the list of packages back to
apt/aptitude/apt-get (your choice).
To list the packages, you could run:
dpkg-query -l | awk -F' ' '/ii/ {print $2}' > packages.txt
And to feed the list back:
cat packages.txt | tr '\n' ' '
Cheers,
Ludovic
On Wed, 20 Apr 2022, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
Greetings
In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where
I don't know how to resolve the conundrum.
/bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10
returned an error code (1)
E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10
when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find
this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or
is seeing it poorly.
When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message.
How do I resolve this - - - - -please?
TIA
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Re: [DNG] information request
On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:37 AM Antony Stone wrote: > > On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > Greetings > > > > In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where > > I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. > > > > /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found > > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > returned an error code (1) > > E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > > > when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find > > this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or > > is seeing it poorly. > > > > When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. > > > > How do I resolve this - - - - -please? > > I found myself in exactly this situation recently. > > I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical > volumes. I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from > it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera. > > I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I > simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS. > > Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having > created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the > Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was > concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure). > > It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is highly > misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter it > expected to, not that the script itself could not be found. > > So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it > will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink to > something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist. > > I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need > to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed. > I had just previously deleted the folder python3.9 but python3.10 was right beside so thought deleting the previous would make more room (which I desperately need!!). When looking at the first lines in apt-listchanges - - - well I'm no programmer but the code looks more like Perl to me with the use of the :: directives but I dunno much about programming so that could be right out to lunch!!! Not seeing anything like what you're describing - - - sorry. When the tools to fix the broken tools don't work - - - - what are the options? Is there only a re-install? (That would be scary - - - - this is a complicated system and I've got piles of software installed!! - - - last time I did this things were quite hairy for quite a while Not fun at all!) Thank you for the information - - - good to know that the error message really doesn't connect with the real world - - - - I wasn't even able to find any references on the web - - - - ZERO - - - which - - I thought was sorta unusual! Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] information request
On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where > I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. > > /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > returned an error code (1) > E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 > > when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find > this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or > is seeing it poorly. > > When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. > > How do I resolve this - - - - -please? I found myself in exactly this situation recently. I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical volumes. I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera. I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS. Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure). It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is highly misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter it expected to, not that the script itself could not be found. So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink to something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist. I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed. Good luck, Antony. -- "I think both KDE and Gnome suck - I'm quite unbiased in that, because I use a Mac." - Jason Isitt Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] information request
Greetings In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where I don't know how to resolve the conundrum. /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 returned an error code (1) E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10 when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/ I can find this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or is seeing it poorly. When I try apt --fix-broken install I the same message. How do I resolve this - - - - -please? TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On 9/4/21 03:17, Steve Litt wrote: Bruce Perens via Dng said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:30:06 -0700 Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code talks directly to the display hardware I'm reminded of writing to the RAM following B800 on DOS :-). Heh.. I seem to recall B000 was available for that as well if you had no monochrome monitor attached. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Hi, On 4/9/21 16:39, al3xu5 wrote: had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered EVERY time I restart the box! I also like to use lots of desktops and too many of the applications are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY restart. Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually" at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this. I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up things at every login... |If your desired resolution isn't listed by xrandr, you can create a new config file in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d. This file must have a file extension of ".conf". One sample of such file might be as follows: Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" HorizSync 30.0-62.0 VertRefresh 50.0-70.0 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" Device "Configured Video Device" DefaultDepth 60 SubSection "Display" Depth 60 Modes "1920x1080" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection EndSection | Pay attention to the key "Modes" in the SubSection "Display" containing three different resolutions. I don't know about the identifiers used here. The X11/Xlib library can select the default screen by the following way: Display *display = XOpenDisplay(NULL); Screen *screen = DefaultScreenOfDisplay(display);/* default */ But it's also possible to choose the first one via: screen = ScreenOfDisplay(display, 0); So, i guess you can try using integers 0, 1,... as identifiers in the|Section "Screen"|. HTH, Aitor. || ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 9:40 AM al3xu5 wrote: https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=12 > Sat, 4 Sep 2021 07:17:11 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng : > > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt > > wrote: > > > > > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500 > > > > > > [...] > > > > - I > > had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so > > they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered >> >> >>  > > Enrico > > > EVERY time I restart the box! > > I also like to use lots of desktops and > > too many of the applications > > are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY > > restart. > > Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually" > at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this. > Well - - - - I have at least two different configurations right now. One with the 4k and one without. > > I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box > to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up > things at every login... I've read about those - - - - just haven't found a good cogent guide to creating such. There are so many things that I'm trying to do that I worry about the low hanging fruit and what absolutely needs to get done. If I have an up time of 6 months taking 3 minutes to type out 4 to 7 commands doesn't bug me. Now when my uptime is measured in single digit hours - - - - - anything to do with login and setup bugs me! Do you know of such a 'guide' (a how to on writing log in scripts. I'm finding that when I go looking for stuff that 90% of what the search engine drags up was current as of 2010 or earlier and I've been bitten enough times by stuff that's out dated - - - - don't need more of that joy!) ? > > Incidentally, I would like to share this two useful links: > - modeline generator: > http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl > - modeline database > https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database > > > > I can > > not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache > > (every cotton > > picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime > > shrinks - - - > > the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as > > low as 45 > > minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - - > > its the time > > it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the > > pain. My computers > > are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to > > hide myself from > > the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks > > anyway > > - - > > unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone > > else's! > > > > [...] > > > > So please - - - -if anyone knows something about taming this nouveau hdmi > > issue > > (I think that's what it is!!!), or how to get my mobo to talk to radeon > > gpus I really > > want to talk. (I also am open for questions on my setup but would prefer > > not to > > broadcast everything on the web - - - grin!). > > Premise: I have never used more than 1 monitor... And excuse me if this is > of no interest for you. > > But, searching in the net (for "linux 4-monitor" or "linux multi-monitor"), > it seems X can handle up to 16 monitors since years, either Nvidia or > AMD, either proprietary or free drivers... > > Just in case you miss it, here below are some interesting links: > > How To Use Multiple and External Displays > https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/ > > I gave ubuntu the heave ho when they chose to force updates one their schedule. Am finding that they also seem to think that their solutions always work - - - - they sure as crap didn't when I was looking for ideas for my system setup the last time I was digging (some time ago but Ubuntu's arrogance as only increased so I now mostly avoid them except where they do something well (kernel supply is one interesting exception!). > > Quad-Monitor AMD/NVIDIA Linux > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=quad_monitor_linux=1 Outdated instructions - - - - nvidia sure as stink no longer supports multi-gpu systems! They want you to buy pro gear to do that - - - - have you checked the pricing on that stuff. > > > Trying Out The Modern Linux Desktops With 4 Monitors + AMD/NVIDIA Graphics > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-quad-desktop=1 > > See previous. > > xorg - Using many monitors (4+) in linux > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2911/using-many-monitors-4-in-linux > > I originally used xorg and a pure x11 setup but that's a tough way to do things and today xrandr works very well and then thirdly see up two. > > Multihead - ArchWiki > https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/multihead > It was actually the ArchWiki pages on multihead and multi-gpu setups that helped me when I was setting up. I would suggest that the instructions
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Sat, 4 Sep 2021 07:17:11 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng : > On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt > wrote: > > > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500 > > > > [...] > > - I > had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so > they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered > EVERY time I restart the box! > I also like to use lots of desktops and > too many of the applications > are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY > restart. Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually" at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this. I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up things at every login... Incidentally, I would like to share this two useful links: - modeline generator: http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl - modeline database https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database > I can > not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache > (every cotton > picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime > shrinks - - - > the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as > low as 45 > minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - - > its the time > it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the > pain. My computers > are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to > hide myself from > the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks > anyway > - - > unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone > else's! > > [...] > > So please - - - -if anyone knows something about taming this nouveau hdmi > issue > (I think that's what it is!!!), or how to get my mobo to talk to radeon > gpus I really > want to talk. (I also am open for questions on my setup but would prefer > not to > broadcast everything on the web - - - grin!). Premise: I have never used more than 1 monitor... And excuse me if this is of no interest for you. But, searching in the net (for "linux 4-monitor" or "linux multi-monitor"), it seems X can handle up to 16 monitors since years, either Nvidia or AMD, either proprietary or free drivers... Just in case you miss it, here below are some interesting links: How To Use Multiple and External Displays https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/ Quad-Monitor AMD/NVIDIA Linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=quad_monitor_linux=1 Trying Out The Modern Linux Desktops With 4 Monitors + AMD/NVIDIA Graphics https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-quad-desktop=1 xorg - Using many monitors (4+) in linux https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2911/using-many-monitors-4-in-linux Multihead - ArchWiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/multihead Use multiple monitors as one big monitor https://askubuntu.com/questions/1192181/use-multiple-monitors-as-one-big-monitor How to Set Up Multiple Monitors in Linux : 6 Steps - Instructables https://www.instructables.com/How-to-set-up-multiple-monitors-in-linux/ Maybe you could be interested in a possible hardware solution, as pheraphs could be a multi-monitor appliance (which surely is not cheap)... Something like the Matrox QuadHead2Go Series: QuadHead2Go Q185 | Multi-Monitor Controller Appliance | Matrox Video https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhead2go-series/q185-appliance Regards al3xu5 -- Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design restrictions! Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8 B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B pgppIm2ncx0u_.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt wrote: > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500 > > >as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28 > >hours. > > Duude!!! > > I hereby resign from the conversation. All of my experience is with one > monitor of less than 4k capabilities. I can't even begin to understand > the hoops you'd need to jump through to get five monitors, of different > resolutions, running. When you get it running you should write a > detailed article for one of the Linux trade magazines, because that > will be a real accomplishment. > > It was many years ago, likely in the early 2000s that I ran into an article regards knowledge workers and their screen real estate. The conclusion was that there was a direct connection between the worker's effectiveness and their screen real estate. I had bought a system in 1999 where I was fortunate enough to get a 1600x1200 crt monitor at a pretty good, for then, price. Really liked having the space. (At the time I used spreadsheets for my business record keeping - - - most call it accounting but that it ain't! - - - with the sheets having over 250 columns (max was 256 columns at the time!) so being able to see more columns meant that I could work faster - - - - a good thing!!! When I put together my present system (end 2011 very beginning of 2012) I gave myself a treat and knowing that also thought of getting into some fairly computationally intensive calculations (lol - - - still working on that) chose to drop in 3 gpus and set up 4 24" monitors. The cash spent was 'interesting' to say the least! (The shop that assembled the system - - -a way to get a pretty good warranty - - - - nicknamed it the beast - - - there weren't too many 64 GB RAM systems around in 2012!!) Started by using the proprietary drivers from nvidia. At that time there was support from nvidia for multi-gpu AND multi-monitor usage. I think it was some time in later 2015 when I went to nouveau. Note that it was AFTER all of this that Linus gave his all too appropriate salute to nvidia If I had only known - - - - but that salute was already 4 years AFTER this system happened. In early 2020 I had 2 gpus die in a fairly short time. I had set up the system for maximum cooling and the noctua fans (some not all) happened only after the original ones died. From what I know now I really don't like most of the fans installed today - - - - too noisy, not enough air movement and then cost too much and far too many have stupid blinky lights or other such rot that - - - - well - - - for me its for kid's toys - - - not 'work tools!!'. So I needed to replace at least one gpu and bought another nvidia because that was what was already in the box. Even the 'old card(s) had a hdmi port and the new card (1050 Ti) was rated for hdmi2.0b according to the literature when I ordered it. I ordered it because it was very reasonable and that it did have 3 (!!!) available ports (hdmi, dp (1.4), and DVI - - - - the 4 monitors are all DVI - - - a very short lived option imo!). It may be difficult to believe for those that have limited themselves to the use of only one monitor but I found myself hampered by my screen real estate on my system as I found myself starting to get into some CAD and other design usage. So I first bought a 4k TV that seemed to have the right specs - - - that was a joke and I chose to buy a fairly reasonable 4k monitor. That's when the 'fun' with hdmi started. I am not sure exactly when things started changing but I was getting up times in the many month (greater than 4 for sure) on a regular basis. IIRC (and I may not be) that was with Debian Buster and a 4.9.x kernel yet. Adding the 4k monitor quite changed that. Understand - - - I had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered EVERY time I restart the box! I also like to use lots of desktops and too many of the applications are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY restart. I can not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache (every cotton picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime shrinks - - - the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as low as 45 minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - - its the time it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the pain. My computers are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to hide myself from the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks anyway - - unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone else's! I've tried remove the nvidia boards and installing a single Radeon 570 (I thing it was) tried with a pair of RX 460s and I can't get the system to boot using either option. My guess is that the mobo showed up at the beginning of the PCI3.0
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500 >as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28 >hours. Duude!!! I hereby resign from the conversation. All of my experience is with one monitor of less than 4k capabilities. I can't even begin to understand the hoops you'd need to jump through to get five monitors, of different resolutions, running. When you get it running you should write a detailed article for one of the Linux trade magazines, because that will be a real accomplishment. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Bruce Perens via Dng said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:30:06 -0700 >Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux >that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code >talks directly to the display hardware I'm reminded of writing to the RAM following B800 on DOS :-). SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Unfortunately there isn't really a good display solution for Linux that does not make use of "direct rendering", in which user-mode code talks directly to the display hardware - especially where 3D and video are concerned. It is simply not possible to construct a reliable system in which user-mode code has direct access to hardware. In any well-designed system, this is exclusively a kernel function. Wayland just takes the user-mode code even closer to the hardware. Thanks Bruce On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 10:22 AM Alexander Brüning via Dng wrote: > > On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 14:16 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > Greetings > > > > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no > > longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which > > I now have on one system.) > > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was > > really not worth running. > > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly > > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. > > > > What say you? > > > > TIA > > I keep looking into Wayland every 6 months or so. It isn't ready yet. There > are a bunch of native, minimalist window managers for it and apparently the > X compatibility layer works quite well, but all the slightly heavier WMs/DEs > didn't convince me. Gnome is just a default no from me, KDE works but keeps > crashing, XFCE isn't ported yet and the few small native DEs are still very > early. The most usable WM seems to be Sway, but that is heavily inspired by > i3 which I personally don't like. > > What I can say on the positive side though is that it works just fine on my > Systemd-free Gentoo installation (haven't tried it on Devuan yet) and seems > very smooth. On AMD at least. Nvidia has really, really dragged its feet on > supporting the necessary extensions. > > Somewhat related: Pipewire is already much, much better than Pulseaudio and > seems ready for daily use. If you have a need for something that provides > functionality above pure ALSA give it a go. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Bruce Perens K6BP - Board Partner, OSS Capital LLC Venture Capital - CEO, undisclosed startup ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
Yes, the AMD cards are no panacea. I bought an AMD FirePro W4100 for $260 to drive multiple 4K monitors at the end of 2019, which was not usable as it turned out. This was not a new card, so should have been supported. After a ton of great help from the mailing list (tried many, many suggestions, including new kernel from backports) I exhausted my 30 day return and Amazon would not take my card back. I bought a $210 GTX 1660, installed the nvidia driver, and it's worked like a charm. I got a few random errors associated with the CUDA interface (which I don't use) so I deleted the package which deals with that. I never get a crash. (I'm not totally a newbie on the cards, FYI. I booted Linux first in 1992, and have set up a million monitors since then!) --Tim On Friday, September 3, 2021, 7:20:15 AM EDT, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:09 AM Steve Litt wrote: spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700 >On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500 >o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > >> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, >> was really not worth running. > >I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen >tearing when watching videos. I don't know if that's been implemented >yet though. When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out the nVidia and put in a Radeon. I had this system built in early 2012. I've tried using both a Radeon 570 and a pair of 460s. Neither time was I able to get the system up. There is nothing I would like better than to get rid of nouveau - - - as soon as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28 hours. More commonly the uptime is under 12 hours and as it takes about 35 to 40 minutes to set everything back up that's just far too much time wasted. If anyone can help me figure out why the pair of 460s won't work (think the 570 needs a newer pci implementation but dunno) I would love to hear it (I have - - I think -- - - just thrown in the towel on trying to compile a kernel with some specific commands to enable nouveau debugging - - - another 5 or 6 hours down the tubes. The 1050 Ti card is from 2016 and one would think that it would be fully supported some 4 years later - - - - but not so! - - - yes I'm grumpy - - - - far too much time poured down a hole with nothing to show for it - - - I use these systems - - - - they are not somewhere I want to live on!!) Thanking one and all for their ideas and encouragement___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Thu, 2021-09-02 at 14:16 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no > longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which > I now have on one system.) > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was > really not worth running. > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. > > What say you? > > TIA I keep looking into Wayland every 6 months or so. It isn't ready yet. There are a bunch of native, minimalist window managers for it and apparently the X compatibility layer works quite well, but all the slightly heavier WMs/DEs didn't convince me. Gnome is just a default no from me, KDE works but keeps crashing, XFCE isn't ported yet and the few small native DEs are still very early. The most usable WM seems to be Sway, but that is heavily inspired by i3 which I personally don't like. What I can say on the positive side though is that it works just fine on my Systemd-free Gentoo installation (haven't tried it on Devuan yet) and seems very smooth. On AMD at least. Nvidia has really, really dragged its feet on supporting the necessary extensions. Somewhat related: Pipewire is already much, much better than Pulseaudio and seems ready for daily use. If you have a need for something that provides functionality above pure ALSA give it a go. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:09 AM Steve Litt wrote: > spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700 > > >On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500 > >o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > >> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, > >> was really not worth running. > > > >I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen > >tearing when watching videos. I don't know if that's been implemented > >yet though. > > When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out > the nVidia and put in a Radeon. > > I had this system built in early 2012. I've tried using both a Radeon 570 and a pair of 460s. Neither time was I able to get the system up. There is nothing I would like better than to get rid of nouveau - - - as soon as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28 hours. More commonly the uptime is under 12 hours and as it takes about 35 to 40 minutes to set everything back up that's just far too much time wasted. If anyone can help me figure out why the pair of 460s won't work (think the 570 needs a newer pci implementation but dunno) I would love to hear it (I have - - I think -- - - just thrown in the towel on trying to compile a kernel with some specific commands to enable nouveau debugging - - - another 5 or 6 hours down the tubes. The 1050 Ti card is from 2016 and one would think that it would be fully supported some 4 years later - - - - but not so! - - - yes I'm grumpy - - - - far too much time poured down a hole with nothing to show for it - - - I use these systems - - - - they are not somewhere I want to live on!!) Thanking one and all for their ideas and encouragement ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 15:48:08 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Sep 02, 2021 at 02:16:58PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > Greetings > > > > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) > > is no longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using > > Devuan which I now have on one system.) > > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact > > function, was really not worth running. > > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly > > capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. > > If I recall correctly from way back in the early 90's on actual Unix > systems, X already had a mechanism for handling multiple monitors. > Has that fallen from X becuse of decades of bit-rot? Still there. Mode line are a thing of the past as for the last fourto three versions, it has mostly automagically worked for me for my PCs. YMMV depending on your hardware, e.g various laptops. > > Don't know about multiple GPUs sending to a single monitor, though. My 2c is to do it via a 'switch'. Either physical or maybe the input selector switch on your monitor, Caveat I've never done that as I either ssh -X or stick a second monitor on the other boxen. X has been fine for me although most of my boxen are X free headless servers. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
o1bigtenor via Dng said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500 >Greetings > >My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is >no longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan >which I now have on one system.) >He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, >was really not worth running. >Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly >capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. > >What say you? I'm not installing Wayland until the bitter end. The day I install Wayland, my dmenu software breaks, and I use that literally hundreds of times a day. The day I install Wayland, I can't use my beloved Openbox window manager anymore. Most important, I keep hearing little voices on the web imply that Wayland is very closely tied to systemd. I have no problem with X. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700 >On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500 >o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > >> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, >> was really not worth running. > >I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen >tearing when watching videos. I don't know if that's been implemented >yet though. When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out the nVidia and put in a Radeon. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, > was really not worth running. I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen tearing when watching videos. I don't know if that's been implemented yet though. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland
On Thu, Sep 02, 2021 at 02:16:58PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no > longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which I > now have on one system.) > He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was > really not worth running. > Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly capable > of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. If I recall correctly from way back in the early 90's on actual Unix systems, X already had a mechanism for handling multiple monitors. Has that fallen from X becuse of decades of bit-rot? Don't know about multiple GPUs sending to a single monitor, though. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Information request re: wayland
Greetings My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which I now have on one system.) He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was really not worth running. Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly capable of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups. What say you? TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
