Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Didier Kryn]

Le 28/04/2020 à 17:05, aitor a écrit :
    I guess the policy in Debian is to install network-manager and not 
ifupdown. I don't know what ifupdown2 does;it is incompatible with 
ifplugd. Maybe it is able to detect by itself that an Ethernet cable 
is connected.


I'm not pretty sure at this point. Maybe ifplugd breaks with ifupdown2 
due to its dependency on ifupdown, being this second one more veteran 
than the first one. I have no arguments to affirm wether ifplugd works 
or not with ifupdown2 because the debian/control file doesn't allow 
this blend. Maybe defining something like "Depends: ifupdown | 
ifupdown2, ...", in the same way than the ifupdown packaging allows to 
use different dhcp clients...


Aitor.


    Hi Aitor.

    According to https://cumulusnetworks.com/blog/ifupdown2/ , 
ifupdown2 has been developped to replace ifupdown in switches, in which 
the configuration can be pretty complicated with dependency chains 
between physical and logical interfaces such as bridges. IIUC, it is 
supposed to allow dynamic changes of the configuration without needing 
to stop/start the interfaces. They claim it is backward-compatible with 
ifupdown. I guess it allows to do complicated things but I also guess it 
requires some serious learning. It does not seem fitted for a laptop or 
a simple server. We know that ifupdown cannot achieve all imaginable 
configurations, but it is a relatively simple tool usable in most usual 
configurations.


        Didier


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

On 28/4/20 17:05, aitor wrote:
I'm not pretty sure at this point. Maybe ifplugd breaks with ifupdown2 
due to its dependency on ifupdown, being this second one more veteran 
than the first one. I have no arguments to affirm wether ifplugd works 
or not with ifupdown2 because the debian/control file doesn't allow 
this blend. Maybe defining something like "Depends: ifupdown | 
ifupdown2, ...", in the same way than the ifupdown packaging allows to 
use different dhcp clients...


*whether*



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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

Hi Didier,

On 28/4/20 14:50, Didier Kryn wrote:
    Thanks Aitor for having investigated this and found a solution, 
though I'm not sure the cause of the delay if fully understood.


    The interfaces file describes actions which ifupdown performs  to 
set interfaces up and down, plus two special clauses "auto" and 
"allow-hotplug", which tell it which interfaces to set up 
automatically respectively at start-up or when the interface is 
plugged in (eg USB-Ethernet or USB-wifi interface). In the case of the 
loopback interface, "auto" is always fine because it isn't a hardware 
interface; in the case of other interfaces, "auto" works only if the 
interface is hard-wired and "allow-hotplug" works as well if it is 
hard-wired or hot-plug; this is why "auto" is deprecated in the 
installers except for lo.


    In the case of a  server, you generally want all interfaces 
(connected to different networks) to be brought up at start-up, 
therefore you just need "allow-hotplug" for all interfaces. In the 
case of a laptop with both a wifi and an Ethernet interface you 
generally do not want both interfaces to be used in the same time 
because they both play the role of the primary interface connected to 
the LAN, with identical configuration (typically "inet dhcp"). This is 
why you don't want ifupdown to start both; instead you need some tool 
able to detect if an ethernet cable is plugged in. When an ethernet 
cable is plugged in, this tool will tell ifupdown to configure the 
Ethernet interface and deconfigure the Wifi. If the cable is plugged 
out, it will tell it to do the opposite. I know two such tools: 
ifplugd and netplug. But there shouldn't be "auto" or "allow-hotplug" 
stanzas in the interface file in this case; their only effect is to 
cause a delay at start-up.


    In summary "auto" and "hotplug" assume that the interface can be 
configured. If you cannot assume it blindly, dont put them and install 
ifplugd or netplug. And this is the general case of a laptop. I 
understand that it would add more complexity to the installer to 
decide what to put in the interfaces file and it probably should not 
force the installation of ifplugd or netplug.


How well explained!

    I guess the policy in Debian is to install network-manager and not 
ifupdown. I don't know what ifupdown2 does;it is incompatible with 
ifplugd. Maybe it is able to detect by itself that an Ethernet cable 
is connected.


I'm not pretty sure at this point. Maybe ifplugd breaks with ifupdown2 
due to its dependency on ifupdown, being this second one more veteran 
than the first one. I have no arguments to affirm wether ifplugd works 
or not with ifupdown2 because the debian/control file doesn't allow this 
blend. Maybe defining something like "Depends: ifupdown | ifupdown2, 
...", in the same way than the ifupdown packaging allows to use 
different dhcp clients...


Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Didier Kryn]

Le 26/04/2020 à 17:39, aitor a écrit :


Hi,

On 9/4/20 18:16, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities 
besides busybox ip?).


The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to 
be, most probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation 
of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with 
the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of.


    Didier



The origin of the startup delay is in the lock_interface() function of 
ifupdown in the main.c file:


https://github.com/wido/ifupdown/blob/master/main.c

between the lines nº196-209, surely because ifupdown is trying to lock 
both wired and wireless devices
at the same time that some dhcp client (isc-dhcp-client, dhcpcd5, 
udhcpc...) is trying to connect (in vain) to some of them,
being these resources busy. 


   AFAIU, dhcp client is invoked by the ifupdown logic only on 
interfaces already up. Logically, there might be an interface already up 
while ifupdown tries to set up another one, but it seems it starts them 
sequentially as shown by what we observe at startup of a laptop: 
typically, there is a delay in trying to set up eth, and wifi is only 
brought up after this delay, leaving the laptop hanging and without 
connection during the delay.


The C function used during the lock attempts is *fcntl* which uses the 
following macros:



Macro: /int/ *F_SETLK*

        whose error conditions are defined by EACCES in GNU/Linux and 
EAGAIN in GNU/Hurd.



Macro: /int/ *F_SETLKW  (= F_SETLK + Wait)
*

which causes the process to block (or wait) until the request can
be specified (line nº199 in main.c).


Read here for more details:

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/File-Locks.html

I replaced this code by an unique line:

        int flags = fcntl(fileno(lock_fp), F_SETLK, &lock);

and the delay disappears (the same effect than removing 
"allow-hotplug" from /etc/network/interfaces.


As a final remark, the "auto " stanza seems to be deprecated, 
but some people still use it. In the case of


having both defined, that is:

auto eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

the clause "allow-hotplug" has priority over "auto"; so, using both at 
the same time makes no sense.


You can download the patched packages from here:

http://packages.gnuinos.org/?dir=gnuinos/pool/main/i/ifupdown

    Thanks Aitor for having investigated this and found a solution, 
though I'm not sure the cause of the delay if fully understood.


    The interfaces file describes actions which ifupdown performs  to 
set interfaces up and down, plus two special clauses "auto" and 
"allow-hotplug", which tell it which interfaces to set up automatically 
respectively at start-up or when the interface is plugged in (eg 
USB-Ethernet or USB-wifi interface). In the case of the loopback 
interface, "auto" is always fine because it isn't a hardware interface; 
in the case of other interfaces, "auto" works only if the interface is 
hard-wired and "allow-hotplug" works as well if it is hard-wired or 
hot-plug; this is why "auto" is deprecated in the installers except for lo.


    In the case of a  server, you generally want all interfaces 
(connected to different networks) to be brought up at start-up, 
therefore you just need "allow-hotplug" for all interfaces. In the case 
of a laptop with both a wifi and an Ethernet interface you generally do 
not want both interfaces to be used in the same time because they both 
play the role of the primary interface connected to the LAN, with 
identical configuration (typically "inet dhcp"). This is why you don't 
want ifupdown to start both; instead you need some tool able to detect 
if an ethernet cable is plugged in. When an ethernet cable is plugged 
in, this tool will tell ifupdown to configure the Ethernet interface and 
deconfigure the Wifi. If the cable is plugged out, it will tell it to do 
the opposite. I know two such tools: ifplugd and netplug. But there 
shouldn't be "auto" or "allow-hotplug" stanzas in the interface file in 
this case; their only effect is to cause a delay at start-up.


    In summary "auto" and "hotplug" assume that the interface can be 
configured. If you cannot assume it blindly, dont put them and install 
ifplugd or netplug. And this is the general case of a laptop. I 
understand that it would add more complexity to the installer to decide 
what to put in the interfaces file and it pr

Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Tito via Dng]

On 4/26/20 7:43 PM, aitor wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> On 9/4/20 18:16, Didier Kryn wrote:
>>>     I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether Jessie 
>>> or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also remind you 
>>> that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation of the Ethernet 
>>> interface (when not plugged in) is still there with the default interfaces 
>>> file. The solution is to remove the clause "allow-hotplug eth0" and install 
>>> ifupdown or the equivalent I have forgotten the name of.
>>>
>>>     Didier
> 
> ifupdown2 is another project similar to ifupdown, but developed in python by 
> other people and having nothing to do each other.
> 
> Btw, i'm getting another startup delay in gnuinos beowulf and it seems to be 
> related with openssh-server waiting for enough entropy
> in the system. A possible solution for that is to install an entropy 
> generator like haveged or rng-tools (i'm building a new iso image right now), 
> but

Hi
If your box has a soundcard you can use also randomsound: ALSA sound card 
related entropy gathering daemon
alone or together with haveged.

Ciao,
Tito

> i guess that the best approach is to upgrade the kernel of gnuinos from 
> 4.18.x to 4.19.x and enable the CONFIG_RANDOM_TEST_CPU variable.
> I've just deblobed the kernel of debian buster and i'm packaging it:
> 
> http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.19.67/linux-libre-4.19.67-gnu.log
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Aitor.
> 
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

Hi,


On 9/4/20 18:16, Didier Kryn wrote:
    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation 
of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with 
the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of.


    Didier


ifupdown2 is another project similar to ifupdown, but developed in 
python by other people and having nothing to do each other.


Btw, i'm getting another startup delay in gnuinos beowulf and it seems 
to be related with openssh-server waiting for enough entropy
in the system. A possible solution for that is to install an entropy 
generator like haveged or rng-tools (i'm building a new iso image right 
now), but
i guess that the best approach is to upgrade the kernel of gnuinos from 
4.18.x to 4.19.x and enable the CONFIG_RANDOM_TEST_CPU variable.

I've just deblobed the kernel of debian buster and i'm packaging it:

http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.19.67/linux-libre-4.19.67-gnu.log

Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

Hi,

On 9/4/20 18:16, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities 
besides busybox ip?).


The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to 
be, most probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation 
of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with 
the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of.


    Didier



The origin of the startup delay is in the lock_interface() function of 
ifupdown in the main.c file:


https://github.com/wido/ifupdown/blob/master/main.c

between the lines nº196-209, surely because ifupdown is trying to lock 
both wired and wireless devices
at the same time that some dhcp client (isc-dhcp-client, dhcpcd5, 
udhcpc...) is trying to connect (in vain) to some of them,
being these resources busy. The C function used during the lock attempts 
is *fcntl* which uses the following macros:



Macro: /int/ *F_SETLK*

        whose error conditions are defined by EACCES in GNU/Linux and 
EAGAIN in GNU/Hurd.



Macro: /int/ *F_SETLKW  (= F_SETLK + Wait)
*

   which causes the process to block (or wait) until the request can be
   specified (line nº199 in main.c).


Read here for more details:

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/File-Locks.html

I replaced this code by an unique line:

        int flags = fcntl(fileno(lock_fp), F_SETLK, &lock);

and the delay disappears (the same effect than removing "allow-hotplug" 
from /etc/network/interfaces.


As a final remark, the "auto " stanza seems to be deprecated, 
but some people still use it. In the case of


having both defined, that is:

auto eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

the clause "allow-hotplug" has priority over "auto"; so, using both at 
the same time makes no sense.


You can download the patched packages from here:

http://packages.gnuinos.org/?dir=gnuinos/pool/main/i/ifupdown

Cheers,

Aitor.



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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Alexis PM via Dng]

 I add other installer bug to the list: locales wrong configured.

In the installer, I choose Spanish (Spain). In the "additional locales" step, I 
don't add any, the header of the dialog indicates that "es_ES.UTF-8" is already 
selected, and "es_ES.UTF-8" is not in the list of additional locales, all seems 
fine. But in the installed system, apt, lightdm, xfce... are all in English.

perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "es_ES.UTF-8"
perl: warning: Falling bak to the standard locale ("C").

The solution:
dpkg-reconfigure locales
and choose the (unselected) "es_ES.UTF-8"

Best regards!

PS: Thanks Mark for libsystemd0 explication!
 En lunes, 20 de abril de 2020 15:04:08 CEST, Alexis PM via Dng 
 escribió:  
 
  Hello

Forgive the brief text and the insufficient review of whether what I indicate 
has already been reported, but I have little time and wanted to indicate a few 
things just in case:

devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso doesn't work:
Initramfs unpacking failed: write error
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
...

devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_i386_netinstall.iso works basically, but:
* the installer tasksel fails (I tried "printer server"), probably non-existent 
packages or dependency errors.
* "none" instead of selected hostname at shell prompt, but /etc/hostname is 
fine.
* libsystemd0 is installed. Note: it is a minimal installation (I didn't select 
anything in installation tasksel).
* No "beowulf-updates" in /etc/apt/sources.list but I choose it in the 
installation.
* "ceres" mention in /etc/devuan_version.
* Untranslated text into Spanish in some parts of the installer.

Best regards!
 En jueves, 19 de marzo de 2020 15:24:57 CET, Rainer Weikusat via Dng 
 escribió:  
 
 goli...@devuan.org writes:
> Dear dev1ers,
>
> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review.

[...]

> In solidarity,
>
> The Devuan Devs

Great news. Thanks a lot.
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

Antony Stone writes:

> On Monday 20 April 2020 at 02:51:51, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:14:14AM +, dal wrote:
>> > The option to uninstall does not resolve the main problem, which should
>> > be fixed upstream.
>>
>> I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here. If someone connects a
>> braille display which is supposed to work but doesn't, The log
>> messages would confirm that brltty is in fact running, but unable to
>> find the connected hardware for whatever reason.
>
> My opinion is that *one* log message to that effect is perfectly reasonable,
> but a new message every few seconds, filling up syslog, is not.

IIRC, the error message was about a file system error.  In that case,
I'd be fine with the message popping up everytime I insert a USB stick
or similar as well.  Seeing every few seconds irrespective of triggers
is overkill, as you mentioned already.

Hope this helps,
--
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Mark Hindley]

Alexis,

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 01:03:47PM +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
>* libsystemd0 is installed. Note: it is a minimal installation (I
>didn't select anything in installation tasksel).

Unfortunately Debian's apt in buster depends on libsystemd0. See
https://bugs.devuan.org/355

We have a newly forked version of apt for ceres/chimaera, but not beowulf.

If this really bothers you, `apt install libelogind0' should replace it.

Mark
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Alexis PM via Dng]

 Hello

Forgive the brief text and the insufficient review of whether what I indicate 
has already been reported, but I have little time and wanted to indicate a few 
things just in case:

devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso doesn't work:
Initramfs unpacking failed: write error
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
touch: /var/run/brltty-Xorg: No such file or directory
...

devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_i386_netinstall.iso works basically, but:
* the installer tasksel fails (I tried "printer server"), probably non-existent 
packages or dependency errors.
* "none" instead of selected hostname at shell prompt, but /etc/hostname is 
fine.
* libsystemd0 is installed. Note: it is a minimal installation (I didn't select 
anything in installation tasksel).
* No "beowulf-updates" in /etc/apt/sources.list but I choose it in the 
installation.
* "ceres" mention in /etc/devuan_version.
* Untranslated text into Spanish in some parts of the installer.

Best regards!
 En jueves, 19 de marzo de 2020 15:24:57 CET, Rainer Weikusat via Dng 
 escribió:  
 
 goli...@devuan.org writes:
> Dear dev1ers,
>
> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review.

[...]

> In solidarity,
>
> The Devuan Devs

Great news. Thanks a lot.
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Antony Stone]

On Monday 20 April 2020 at 02:51:51, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:14:14AM +, dal wrote:
> > The option to uninstall does not resolve the main problem, which should
> > be fixed upstream.
> 
> I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here. If someone connects a
> braille display which is supposed to work but doesn't, The log
> messages would confirm that brltty is in fact running, but unable to
> find the connected hardware for whatever reason.

My opinion is that *one* log message to that effect is perfectly reasonable, 
but a new message every few seconds, filling up syslog, is not.


Antony.

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Tinned food was developed for the British Navy in 1813.

The tin opener was not invented until 1858.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:14:14AM +, dal wrote:
> The option to uninstall does not resolve the main problem, which should be 
> fixed upstream.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here. If someone connects a
braille display which is supposed to work but doesn't, The log
messages would confirm that brltty is in fact running, but unable to
find the connected hardware for whatever reason.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

-Original Message-
From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Nowak
Sent: den 19 april 2020 05:22
[skipped]
For those who don't need brltty and who find the
log messages a problem, uninstalling brltty should resolve the issue.
--

The option to uninstall does not resolve the main problem, which should be 
fixed upstream.

Practically it is important to be able to install packages even if they are not 
going to be used on the given computer (compare this to "Recommended" which are 
uncertain whether they will be used or not).

One specific case of value is installing many mostly identical computers with 
the same set of packages.

OT:
A similar issue is various services (like sshd) which are being started at a 
package installation time (not later, say after a reconfiguration, or never).  
policy.rc.d seems to be the only, inconvenient workaround. This is of course 
not Beowulf/Devuan-specific.

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 09:31:51PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> I never thought about this before, but I think all packages for blind
> people should come with all standard packages. Doing so avoids the
> buried shovel situation where the blind person could install the
> packages for blind people if only he or she could read enough to
> install them.

Thank you for your sentiment Steve. Devuan however does have an
accessible install option. This means that whatever accessibility
speech or braille output options were chosen during the install will
also be activated in the installed system. So, if someone initially
installed with for example software speech but not with braille but
that person needs braille later, that individual should be able to use
the already activated software speech to install and configure brltty
for braille output. For those who don't need brltty and who find the
log messages a problem, uninstalling brltty should resolve the issue.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:05:25 +0200
Antony Stone  wrote:

> On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote:
> 
> > Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of
> > 
> > brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] ->
> > /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device  
> 
> Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people?
> 
> brltty is the Braille display driver, and you will get these messages
> if the Braille display is not connected.

I never thought about this before, but I think all packages for blind
people should come with all standard packages. Doing so avoids the
buried shovel situation where the blind person could install the
packages for blind people if only he or she could read enough to
install them.

Those of us who aren't blind can easily de-install them.

SteveT

Steve Litt
March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

-Original Message-
From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Olaf Meeuwissen via 
Dng
Sent: den 18 april 2020 13:47

If the OP has task-console-productivity installed it might be a Devuan
specific issue.  The brltty package is recommended there and there is no
such task in Debian AFAIK.
-

Yes, I think it came in that way, but its presence is not a problem.
The logs are, as Antony already wrote.

Including the package into a "task" just made that Debian/upstream bug apparent.

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 13:47:25, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Antony Stone writes:
> > 
> > It's definitely not Devuan-specific; I don't know whether it is
> > Debian-specific, or generic to any distro which includes brltty.  I've
> > only ever used it on Debian.
> > 
> > If you consider it a bug, it needs to be reported upstream; I'm just not
> > sure how far up.
> 
> If the OP has task-console-productivity installed it might be a Devuan
> specific issue.  The brltty package is recommended there and there is no
> such task in Debian AFAIK.

Aha - I wasn't aware of *that* Devuan-specific possibility, however I was 
basically confirming that the logfile entries which the OP was unhappy about 
occur on Debian too (provided someone or something installed brltty).

I'm not quite sure why brltty should be a recommendation for "console 
productivity", but the underlying problem would seem to be the logfile entries 
rather than the installation of the package, I think.

I'm happy to have packages installed on my machine which are (currently) non-
functional due to the required hardware not being plugged in, but I wouldn't 
want them constantly complaining about it.



Antony.

-- 
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because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. 
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some 
things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't 
know we don't know."

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

Antony Stone writes:

> On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 13:17:41, dal wrote:
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
>> Sent: den 18 april 2020 12:05
>>
>> On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote:
>> > Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of
>> >
>> > brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] ->
>> > /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device
>>
>> Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people?
>> [skipped]
>>  you will get these messages if the Braille display is not connected.
>> -
>>
>> Then this is a bug, to fill the logs if hardware is not connected
>> (does not have to be Beowulf/Devuan fault, I did not test with Debian).
>
> It's definitely not Devuan-specific; I don't know whether it is 
> Debian-specific,
> or generic to any distro which includes brltty.  I've only ever used it on
> Debian.
>
> If you consider it a bug, it needs to be reported upstream; I'm just not sure
> how far up.

If the OP has task-console-productivity installed it might be a Devuan
specific issue.  The brltty package is recommended there and there is no
such task in Debian AFAIK.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

-Original Message-
From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: den 18 april 2020 13:25

It's definitely not Devuan-specific; I don't know whether it is 
Debian-specific, 
or generic to any distro which includes brltty.  I've only ever used it on 
Debian.

If you consider it a bug, it needs to be reported upstream; I'm just not sure 
how far up.
-

Thanks Antony!

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 13:17:41, dal wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
> Sent: den 18 april 2020 12:05
> 
> On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote:
> > Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of
> > 
> > brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] ->
> > /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device
> 
> Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people?
> [skipped]
>  you will get these messages if the Braille display is not connected.
> -
> 
> Then this is a bug, to fill the logs if hardware is not connected
> (does not have to be Beowulf/Devuan fault, I did not test with Debian).

It's definitely not Devuan-specific; I don't know whether it is 
Debian-specific, 
or generic to any distro which includes brltty.  I've only ever used it on 
Debian.

If you consider it a bug, it needs to be reported upstream; I'm just not sure 
how far up.


Antony.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

-Original Message-
From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: den 18 april 2020 12:05
On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote:

> Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of
> 
> brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] ->
> /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device

Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people?
[skipped]
 you will get these messages if the Braille display is not connected.
-

Then this is a bug, to fill the logs if hardware is not connected
(does not have to be Beowulf/Devuan fault, I did not test with Debian).

And no, it was not installed deliberately, but it could be. It came probably as 
a part of some task package.
Some of the computers which share the package set may have or lack the hardware.

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 April 2020 at 12:00:18, dal wrote:

> Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of
> 
> brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] ->
> /var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device

Did you deliberately install accessibility for blind people?

brltty is the Braille display driver, and you will get these messages if the 
Braille display is not connected.


Antony.

-- 
We all get the same amount of time - twenty-four hours per day.
How you use it is up to you.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

Is it only me who gets in /var/log/daemon.log loads of

brltty[...]: file system mount error: usbfs[brltty-usbfs] -> 
/var/run/brltty/usbfs: No such device

?

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Florian Zieboll]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:50:59 +0300
Dimitris via Dng  wrote:

> 68.7 is in beowulf-proposed-updates repos :
> https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=firefox-esr&release=beowulf
> 
> although, i think it should be in beowulf-security.. (?)


Repeatedly I found security.debian.org to be several days ahead of
Devuan's security repos, which (according to 'apt-cache policy') at the
moment provides firefox-esr version 68.6.1 for beowulf.

When adding security.debian.org to the sources list, it could make
sense to have pinning rules like the following in /etc/apt/preferences
to prevent unwanted modifications: 

Package: systemd-sysv
Pin: release o=*
Pin-Priority: -1

Package: systemd
Pin: release o=*
Pin-Priority: -1

Regarding the "proposed-updates" mechanism, the _Debian_ documentation
states: 

"It should be noted that packages from security.debian.org
are copied into the p-u-new (o-p-u-new) directory
automatically. At the same time, packages that are uploaded
directly to proposed-updates (oldstable-proposed-updates) are
not monitored by the Debian security team." [1]


libre Grüße,
Florian


[1] https://www.debian.org/releases/proposed-updates
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dimitris via Dng]

68.7 is in beowulf-proposed-updates repos :
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=firefox-esr&release=beowulf

although, i think it should be in beowulf-security.. (?)

d.

On 4/13/20 2:37 PM, dal wrote:
> Installing Beowulf today, I get
> 
> firefox-esr_68.6.1esr-1~deb10u1_amd64.deb
> 
> despite that Debian said 8 Apr 2020 that the upgrade to
> 
> 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1
> 
> Is necessary because of CVE-2020-6821 CVE-2020-6822 CVE-2020-6825
> 
> This does not look right?
> 
> /D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

Installing Beowulf today, I get

firefox-esr_68.6.1esr-1~deb10u1_amd64.deb

despite that Debian said 8 Apr 2020 that the upgrade to

68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1

Is necessary because of CVE-2020-6821 CVE-2020-6822 CVE-2020-6825

This does not look right?

/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Didier Kryn]

Le 10/04/2020 à 00:19, aitor_czr a écrit :


Hi Didier,

On 4/9/20 4:29 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 09/04/2020 à 18:16, Didier Kryn a écrit :

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities 
besides busybox ip?).


The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used 
to be, most probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I 
also remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out 
activation of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still 
there with the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove 
the clause "allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the 
equivalent I have forgotten the name of. 
    Sorry for the typo. install *ifplugd* or an equivalent. 
After a reboot the network devices are properly brought up using 
different options like *auto*,

*allow-auto* or *allow-hotplug*.The differences between them are:

1) auto  - This stanza in /etc/network/interfaces file starts 
the network interface at boot

(this is the option used by the loopback virtual interface).

2) allow-auto  - Similar to the first one. I'm not pretty sure 
if there is any difference.


3) allow-hotplug  -  As opposed to the others, it starts when 
a *plug* event is detected.
The fact that it'll will be waiting for eventslike the linking of the 
ethernet cable or something that
involveskernel/eudev detection against the hardware, can lead us to 
think that thiskind of linking
configurationis the guiltyof the delay during the boot process, but 
this is only a half-truth.


    After experimenting I think I can state that "hotplug" here means 
that the interface itself - not the cable - can be hotplugged. This is 
usefull if you plug in a USB-Ethernet adapter. It has nothing to do with 
detecting the connection of an Ethernet cable. If your Ethernet 
interface is hard-wired, the "auto" stanza has the same effect.Once the 
Ethernet interface is detected, the logic of ifupdown is to bring it up, 
and then it enters a timed-out wait for the carrier.


    f you have several interfaces, ifupdown will try to bring them up 
one after the other with a timed-out wait for the carrier. In general on 
a laptop, you have one Ethernet and one Wifi, both hardwired. You can 
put an "auto" or "allow-hotplug" stanza for the Wifi because it will be 
tried last. If you have an "allow-hotplug" for the Ethernet and the 
cable is not connected, it will just add a delay to the startup but it 
will not allow the detection of the carrier when an Ethernet cable is 
connected; you need something like ifplugd for that.


        Didier

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Mike Schmitz via Dng]

On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 11:23:24PM +, aitor_czr wrote:
> Hi Didier,
> 
> On 4/9/20 10:19 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
> > Sorry for the typo. install *ifplugd* or an equivalent.
> Another clarification: ifplugd depends on ifupdown and breaks with
> ifupdown2. The
> real culprit of the startup delay is ifupdown together with dhcp, and it's
> not caused
> by the time-out activation of the wired interface as you pointed out, but
> rather by
> the management ofany of the existent clauses for /etc/network/interfaces
> with the
> wrong version ofifupdown -better said-,  regardless whether is a wired or
> wireless
> device.

There was a fix on dev1galaxy, but I can't seem to get there right now.
I think is this link: http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1688 

it includes a patch for /etc/init.d/networking to back out some changes
that they put in there for systemdon't




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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi Didier,

On 4/9/20 10:19 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
Sorry for the typo. install *ifplugd* or an equivalent. 
Another clarification: ifplugd depends on ifupdown and breaks with 
ifupdown2. The
real culprit of the startup delay is ifupdown together with dhcp, and 
it's not caused
by the time-out activation of the wired interface as you pointed out, 
but rather by
the management ofany of the existent clauses for /etc/network/interfaces 
with the
wrong version ofifupdown -better said-,  regardless whether is a wired 
or wireless

device.

I do not mean to be categorical, I only speak from my personal 
experiences :)


Regards,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi Didier,

On 4/9/20 4:29 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 09/04/2020 à 18:16, Didier Kryn a écrit :

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities 
besides busybox ip?).


The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to 
be, most probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation 
of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with 
the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of. 
    Sorry for the typo. install *ifplugd* or an equivalent. 
After a reboot the network devices are properly brought up using 
different options like *auto*,

*allow-auto* or *allow-hotplug*.The differences between them are:

1) auto  - This stanza in /etc/network/interfaces file starts 
the network interface at boot

(this is the option used by the loopback virtual interface).

2) allow-auto  - Similar to the first one. I'm not pretty sure 
if there is any difference.


3) allow-hotplug  -  As opposed to the others, it starts when a 
*plug* event is detected.
The fact that it'll will be waiting for eventslike the linking of the 
ethernet cable or something that
involveskernel/eudev detection against the hardware, can lead us to 
think that thiskind of linking
configurationis the guiltyof the delay during the boot process, but this 
is only a half-truth.


As far as i can tell after my several tests, the issue of the delay 
disappears in the following two cases:


a) Using"allow-auto " in combination with *ifupdown2*, instead 
of ifupdown.


b) Using "auto " in combination with ifupdown, instead of ifupdown2.

This said, and being the different alternatives above focused to the 
same goal, the use different linking
configurations altogether makes no sense in my opinion. Particularly, 
i'm using "allow-hotplug" for the
images of gnuinos because it's generated automatically at boot time 
during live sessions by some script.


Hope this helps,

Aitor.





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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Didier Kryn]

Le 09/04/2020 à 18:16, Didier Kryn a écrit :

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities 
besides busybox ip?).


The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to 
be, most probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation 
of the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with 
the default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of. 

    Sorry for the typo. install *ifplugd* or an equivalent.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Didier Kryn]

Le 09/04/2020 à 16:13, dal a écrit :

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

   devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
   and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities besides 
busybox ip?).

The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to be, most 
probably unintentionally.


    I remember this was also the case in a previous version, wether 
Jessie or Ascii. Obviously this isn't an issue when upgrading. I also 
remind you that the startup delay caused by the timed-out activation of 
the Ethernet interface (when not plugged in) is still there with the 
default interfaces file. The solution is to remove the clause 
"allow-hotplug eth0" and install ifupdown or the equivalent I have 
forgotten the name of.


    Didier



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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[dal]

Hello and thanks for Beowulf.

An issue:

it looks like

  devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_amd64_netinstall.iso
  and the base system installable from it

do not contain the ifupdown package (nor other networking utilities besides 
busybox ip?).

The resulting base installation remains offline.
This is a more limited definition of a "base system" than it used to be, most 
probably unintentionally.
 
/D
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[g4sra via Dng]

On 06/04/2020 23:24, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 05:10:48PM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
>> Only one issue so far, had to manually run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' after 
>> reboot.
> 
> You might want to add to bug 419, so the devs are aware that more than
> just one person had this issue:

Done

> 
> 
> 
> Greg
> 
> 

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Gregory Nowak]

On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 05:10:48PM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> Only one issue so far, had to manually run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' after 
> reboot.

You might want to add to bug 419, so the devs are aware that more than
just one person had this issue:



Greg


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web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[g4sra via Dng]

Minimal install from CD-Rom devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_beta_i386_netinstall.iso on 
Pentium4 OK.
Only one issue so far, had to manually run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' after 
reboot.


On 15/03/2020 16:22, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> Dear dev1ers,
> 
> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review. The installer isos,
> desktop-live and minimal-live isos can be downloaded from:
> 
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/
> 
> ### What's new in Beowulf
> 
> Changes in su
>  - The behavior of su has changed. Use 'su -' to get root's path or use
>    the full path to commands if you use only 'su'. See the following for
>    more information:
>    
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#su-environment-variables
>    https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster
>    https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=905564
> 
> Pulseaudio
>  - If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
>    /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
>    shown here:
> 
>    #autospawn=no
> 
>  - Note that firefox-esr no longer requires pulseaudio. You can easily
>    remove pulseaudio and just use alsa.
> 
> Please read the Release Notes for more detailed information:
> 
> http://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/Release_notes.txt
> 
> Install, upgrade and migrate documentation for beowulf and be accessed at:
> 
> https://beta.devuan.org/os/install (still a WIP)
> 
> Please report any issues you may experience to this list, bugs.devuan.org,
> freenode irc #devuan-dev or the dev1galaxy.org forum.
> 
> In solidarity,
> 
> The Devuan Devs
> 
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dan Purgert]

On Apr 05, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> Hi Dan
> 
> On 05.04.20 13:12, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > OK, so now you've "verified(tm)" that you successfully got
> > "devuan_a1gn1ng_key" from https://devane.com/pgp.asc.  Great that
> > you were able to verify the server.  But you still got a bogus key
> > :)
> > 
> > Which was pretty much my point -- TLS doesn't protect you from getting
> > sent the wrong key, if you somehow got directed to the wrong site...
> You will copy the link from the manual or the mail. Yes things can go
> wrong everywhere, even there. Because so many things can go wrong, one
> should reduce the risk that they do (and as well make it harder for
> attackers to succeed). It's a none argument to say a technique doesn't
> protects you from everything, so renounce on using it. In contrary, use
> what you can as long as its somewhat reasonable in resource consumption
> and effort it needs to set up. Writing https instead of http in a manual
> for one package is not so much of a job and for that one package the
> server will not go down because of increased load.

I'm not saying to throw away TLS in every case.  I'm only saying that
TLS offers nothing for the transfer of a public PGP key. Frankly,
blindly trusting a public pgp key "just because you got it from
"https://somewhere.com"; is actively detrimental in that now you're just
giving yourself a false sense of security.


-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi Adrian,

On 4/5/20 1:19 PM, Adrian Zaugg wrote:

Unfortunately there is no DNSSEC on pkgmaster.devuan.org nor on
packages.gnuinos.org


There are several https key-servers out there... Could somebody 
recommend me someone in particular?


Thanks in advance,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Adrian Zaugg]

Hi Dan

On 05.04.20 13:12, Dan Purgert wrote:> OK, so now you've "verified(tm)"
that you successfully got
> "devuan_a1gn1ng_key" from https://devane.com/pgp.asc.  Great that you
> were able to verify the server.  But you still got a bogus key :)
> 
> Which was pretty much my point -- TLS doesn't protect you from getting
> sent the wrong key, if you somehow got directed to the wrong site...
You will copy the link from the manual or the mail. Yes things can go
wrong everywhere, even there. Because so many things can go wrong, one
should reduce the risk that they do (and as well make it harder for
attackers to succeed). It's a none argument to say a technique doesn't
protects you from everything, so renounce on using it. In contrary, use
what you can as long as its somewhat reasonable in resource consumption
and effort it needs to set up. Writing https instead of http in a manual
for one package is not so much of a job and for that one package the
server will not go down because of increased load.

Unfortunately there is no DNSSEC on pkgmaster.devuan.org nor on
packages.gnuinos.org at, no CAA and no HSTS, still support for TLS 1.0
and 1.1. This could all be improved with not that much of work to make
it more save. If done and you type in the right server name you land
pretty much where you wanted (yes, enable dnssec on your resolver).
These changes wouldn't increase the load of the server too much, because
most of the users do not install apt-transport-https (~30% have, did
they also change sources.list?).


Regards, Adrian.




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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dan Purgert]

On Apr 05, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> 
> 
> On 22.03.20 13:02, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> > The entire point of the public key is that it can be obtained over any
> > insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature verification.
> 
> That is true, yes. But if you get other keys in your keystore than you
> really wanted, packages do verify that you don't want that they do. You
> need to verify imported keys, that they belong to the one you think they
> should. That's why I suggested to use a https-secured  link, because at
> least the server gets identified through the certificates.

OK, so now you've "verified(tm)" that you successfully got
"devuan_a1gn1ng_key" from https://devane.com/pgp.asc.  Great that you
were able to verify the server.  But you still got a bogus key :)

Which was pretty much my point -- TLS doesn't protect you from getting
sent the wrong key, if you somehow got directed to the wrong site...


-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Adrian Zaugg]

On 22.03.20 13:02, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On Mar 21, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> The entire point of the public key is that it can be obtained over any
> insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature verification.

That is true, yes. But if you get other keys in your keystore than you
really wanted, packages do verify that you don't want that they do. You
need to verify imported keys, that they belong to the one you think they
should. That's why I suggested to use a https-secured  link, because at
least the server gets identified through the certificates.

Regards, Adrian.
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi tempforever,

On 26/3/20 2:57, tempforever wrote:
Thanks a lot.  Your message is going to be top of my list for a couple 
years :-)


Not at all. I like to be at the very top.

Cheers,

topforever.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[tempforever]

Thanks a lot.  Your message is going to be top of my list for a couple 
years :-)


aitor_czr wrote:

Hi

On 19/3/22 14:01, aitor_czr wrote:

On 22/3/20 12:18, Dimitris via Dng wrote:

wget
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb 



dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb


resending, last message was encrypted..


Wow!

The date of the message above is wrong because i typed 2022 instead of 
2020 when using the *hwclock* and *date* commands after a fresh 
installation of devuan. I rectified it later.


Aitor.

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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi

On 19/3/22 14:01, aitor_czr wrote:

On 22/3/20 12:18, Dimitris via Dng wrote:

wget
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb

dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb


resending, last message was encrypted..


Wow!

The date of the message above is wrong because i typed 2022 instead of 
2020 when using the *hwclock* and *date* commands after a fresh 
installation of devuan. I rectified it later.


Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dan Purgert]

On Mar 22, 2020, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 08:02:51 -0400
> Dan Purgert  wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 21, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> > 
> > > Please get your keys always over secured connections. Use https.  
> > 
> > The entire point of the public key is that it can be obtained over any
> > insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature verification.
> 
> 
> Hallo Dan,
> 
> please re-check what you wrote here - I am sure that you have been
> confused. Let me correct your statement: 

I meant what I said.

You getting my pgp key (8e11ddf31279a281) from https://mysite has no
inherent benefit over getting it from http://mysite.  Or likewise,
getting "notDansRealKey" from "https://notmysite"; doesn't actually
protect you.

Your trust in my key (and therefore, my signature) should not be founded
on _where_ you got it from, but your own personal web of trust made up
of (hopefully!) people you know and trust to do their due diligence for
confirming I am me. (Or in the specific case of the devuan signing key,
that the devuan key is actually owned by the team).

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Florian Zieboll]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

NB: Oh, of course you can also verify the public key, if you have signed
data from a trustworthy source :-)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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=UJUk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Florian Zieboll]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 08:02:51 -0400
Dan Purgert  wrote:

> On Mar 21, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> 
> > Please get your keys always over secured connections. Use https.  
> 
> The entire point of the public key is that it can be obtained over any
> insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature verification.


Hallo Dan,

please re-check what you wrote here - I am sure that you have been
confused. Let me correct your statement: 

|| The entire point of the public key, if received from a trustworthy
|| source(!), is that THE DATA SIGNED WITH IT can be obtained over any
|| insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature
|| verification.

Best regards,
Florian

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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=21Ka
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

On 22/3/20 12:18, Dimitris via Dng wrote:

wget
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb

dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb


resending, last message was encrypted..


Wow!


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dimitris via Dng]

> wget
> https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
> 
> dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb
> 

resending, last message was encrypted..
---

or :
# apt-key adv --keyserver hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net
--recv-keys 94532124541922FB



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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Dan Purgert]

On Mar 21, 2020, Adrian Zaugg wrote:
> 
> 
> On 19.03.20 20:37, aitor_czr wrote:
> > As you know, you need to install the gpg key of gnuinos:
> > 
> > # curl http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | apt-key add -
> 
> Please get your keys always over secured connections. Use https.

The entire point of the public key is that it can be obtained over any
insecure medium, and still provide the correct signature verification.

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

Ho Adrian,

En 22 de marzo de 2020 8:27:58 Adrian Zaugg  escribió:


On 19.03.20 20:37, aitor_czr wrote:

As you know, you need to install the gpg key of gnuinos:


# curl http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | apt-key add -


Please get your keys always over secured connections. Use https.

This is also bad in the docs for Devuan:
apt-get install devuan-keyring --allow-unauthenticated

Could you please change this to have a secured download or if not
possible a check of the downloaded keys? This is a must. Put something
like the following to the docs:

wget
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb

dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb


Regards, Adrian.


Thanks for your suggestion.

Aitor.



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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng writes:

> Hi,
>
> goli...@devuan.org writes:
>
>> Dear dev1ers,
>>
>> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review. The
>> installer isos, desktop-live and minimal-live isos can be downloaded
>> from:
>>
>> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/
>
> Kudos for all the hard work put in by all of you!
>
>> Please report any issues you may experience to this list,
>> bugs.devuan.org,
>> freenode irc #devuan-dev or the dev1galaxy.org forum.
>
> I prefer submitting issues at bugs.devuan.org to prevent them falling
> thru the cracks :-) but I'm wondering whether they should go to
>
>  - debian-installer, or
>  - installation-reports

Mark pointed out devuan-installer.  Thanks!

> I've so far found a few issues installing from the amd64 netinstall ISO
> (created 20200313)
>
>  - grub-efi-amd64 is not included (but grub-efi-ia32 is :-?)
>- the server ISO seems to have the same issue
>  - not installing any of the extra software, not even the standard
>system utilities, leaves you with a fairly badly broken system
>- no network (ifupdown not installed ... :-o)
>- weird behaviour of the backspace key (input is deleted but the
>  cursor moves forward instead of backwards)
>- encrypted lvm with openrc only mounts / (with sysvinit other
>  filesystems are mounted)

The above holds even when the standard system utilities are installed.

> Background: I have been doing *minimal* air-gapped installs using the
>   Devuan ASCII (and Debian buster) netinst ISOs without any trouble.
>   Here minimal means zero extra packages, not even standard system
>   utilities.  When following the same procedure with the Beowulf beta
>   ISO this no longer works :cry:
>
> Off now to try with the amd64 server ISO (on non-UEFI hardware).

The server ISO worked fine for an air-gapped install on non-UEFI
hardware.  I expect it to fail installing GRUB on UEFI hardware because
the grub-efi-amd64 package (and its dependencies?) are not included.

I have since stumbled across

 1. The *_netinstall.iso (~300 M) installs a minimal base system then
 downloads additional packages from the Devuan repositories during the
 installation process.  Not to be used for offline installs.

in the Devuan Beowulf Install Guide[1].  I guess the guide is serious
about the netinstall image *not* to be used for offline installs.

 [1]: 
https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/install-devuan

Fair enough but it deviates from, oh, a decade or so of previous
experience with Debian and Devuan netinst ISO image.  There was some
mention in the Devuan meeting notes for 2020-03-19 (cannot find it in
the devuan-dev ML archives yet) about perhaps "rectifying" this.

Keeping finger crossed ;-)

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Mark,

Mark Hindley writes:

> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:05:18AM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> goli...@devuan.org writes:
>>
>> > Dear dev1ers,
>> >
>> > The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review. The
>> > installer isos, desktop-live and minimal-live isos can be downloaded
>> > from:
>> >
>> > https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/
>>
>> Kudos for all the hard work put in by all of you!
>>
>> > Please report any issues you may experience to this list,
>> > bugs.devuan.org,
>> > freenode irc #devuan-dev or the dev1galaxy.org forum.
>>
>> I prefer submitting issues at bugs.devuan.org to prevent them falling
>> thru the cracks :-) but I'm wondering whether they should go to
>>
>>  - debian-installer, or
>>  - installation-reports
>
> Olaf,
>
> Thanks.
>
> There is a devuan-installer pseudopackage which is probably most appropriate.

Thanks!  I hadn't considered the possibility of the installer
pseudopackage getting renamed (and have probably glossed over any
rename if it was mentioned on the lists.

Have just submitted bug#413 for the missing grub-efi-amd64 packages and
another for an I18N issue in (at least) the installer language selection
step.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Adrian Zaugg]

On 19.03.20 20:37, aitor_czr wrote:
> As you know, you need to install the gpg key of gnuinos:
> 
> # curl http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | apt-key add -

Please get your keys always over secured connections. Use https.

This is also bad in the docs for Devuan:
apt-get install devuan-keyring --allow-unauthenticated

Could you please change this to have a secured download or if not
possible a check of the downloaded keys? This is a must. Put something
like the following to the docs:

wget
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb

dpkg --install devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb


Regards, Adrian.
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Mark Hindley]

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:05:18AM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> goli...@devuan.org writes:
> 
> > Dear dev1ers,
> >
> > The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review. The
> > installer isos, desktop-live and minimal-live isos can be downloaded
> > from:
> >
> > https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/
> 
> Kudos for all the hard work put in by all of you!
> 
> > Please report any issues you may experience to this list,
> > bugs.devuan.org,
> > freenode irc #devuan-dev or the dev1galaxy.org forum.
> 
> I prefer submitting issues at bugs.devuan.org to prevent them falling
> thru the cracks :-) but I'm wondering whether they should go to
> 
>  - debian-installer, or
>  - installation-reports

Olaf,

Thanks.

There is a devuan-installer pseudopackage which is probably most appropriate.

Mark
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

goli...@devuan.org writes:

> Dear dev1ers,
>
> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review. The
> installer isos, desktop-live and minimal-live isos can be downloaded
> from:
>
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/

Kudos for all the hard work put in by all of you!

> Please report any issues you may experience to this list,
> bugs.devuan.org,
> freenode irc #devuan-dev or the dev1galaxy.org forum.

I prefer submitting issues at bugs.devuan.org to prevent them falling
thru the cracks :-) but I'm wondering whether they should go to

 - debian-installer, or
 - installation-reports

I've so far found a few issues installing from the amd64 netinstall ISO
(created 20200313)

 - grub-efi-amd64 is not included (but grub-efi-ia32 is :-?)
   - the server ISO seems to have the same issue
 - not installing any of the extra software, not even the standard
   system utilities, leaves you with a fairly badly broken system
   - no network (ifupdown not installed ... :-o)
   - weird behaviour of the backspace key (input is deleted but the
 cursor moves forward instead of backwards)
   - encrypted lvm with openrc only mounts / (with sysvinit other
 filesystems are mounted)

Background: I have been doing *minimal* air-gapped installs using the
  Devuan ASCII (and Debian buster) netinst ISOs without any trouble.
  Here minimal means zero extra packages, not even standard system
  utilities.  When following the same procedure with the Beowulf beta
  ISO this no longer works :cry:

Off now to try with the amd64 server ISO (on non-UEFI hardware).

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
 Join the Free Software Foundation  https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor_czr]

Hi,

On 19/3/20 15:24, Rainer Weikusat via Dng wrote:

goli...@devuan.org  writes:

Dear dev1ers,

The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review.

[...]


In solidarity,

The Devuan Devs

Great news. Thanks a lot.


Yes, I've it working on my computers. Thanks, golinux and all the 
contributors!


Btw, i fixed my bugs in the config of amprolla, and the repo of gnuinos 
is working again:


deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/  main
deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/  main

deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/ -security main
deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/ -security main

deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/ -updates main
deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged/ -updates main

for jessie, ascii and beowulf.

As you know, you need to install the gpg key of gnuinos:

# curl http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | apt-key add -

Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Rainer Weikusat via Dng]

goli...@devuan.org writes:
> Dear dev1ers,
>
> The Devuan 3 Beowulf Beta release is now ready for review.

[...]

> In solidarity,
>
> The Devuan Devs

Great news. Thanks a lot.
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[Simon Walter]

On 3/16/20 1:22 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
...

  - Note that firefox-esr no longer requires pulseaudio. You can easily
    remove pulseaudio and just use alsa.


Oh yeah! I can watch Youtube now with Firefox now!

Thanks for the news and for the for Devuan!
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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[aitor]

Hi Tom,

On 15/3/20 21:23, tom wrote:

Just wanted to ask, not a huge deal to uninstall it by hand, but why
isn't pulseaudio removed by default?
Because a vanilla installation of devuan is basically like a vanilla 
installation of debian without systemd.


Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Beowulf Beta is here!

[tom]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:22:49 -0500
goli...@devuan.org wrote:

> Pulseaudio
>   - If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
> /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
> shown here:
> 
> #autospawn=no
> 
>   - Note that firefox-esr no longer requires pulseaudio. You can
> easily remove pulseaudio and just use alsa.
Just wanted to ask, not a huge deal to uninstall it by hand, but why
isn't pulseaudio removed by default?

-- 
  
/ All generalizations are false, \
| including this one.|
||
\ -- Mark Twain  /
  
\
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   /\   /\   
  //\\_//\\ 
  \_ _//   /
   / * * \/^^^]
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