Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
Sylvia, have you logged in? Everybody, the attached file is a screenshot of what I mean. The existing text says "You", which is direct and immediate, and is NOT the overuse of "you" people have been talking about. The proposed change is "Everybody", which is indirect and distant. It does not catch the reader the same way as the original does. I am beginning to think somebody heard "we say 'you' too much" and just decided to get rid of "you" everywhere. The only places that need work are where the text says something like "You then push the red button...", where "You" is obviously not needed. a On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Sylvia Sánchez wrote: > Same here. Folder with no files. > > > Cheers, > Sylvia > -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
Look at the first page of the preface.
On Apr 8, 2016 6:40 AM, "Lera Goncharuk" wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> В письме от 7 апреля 2016 11:00:45 пользователь Andrew Wetmore написал:
> > I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
> >
> > I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> > more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> > documentation.
> I do not think that the excessive use of "you" is good style. But team
> has to
> decide this.
> In any case, I do not see such much of "you" in popular science journals
> (which have been writing really beautiful and plain language) and technical
> documentation (that does not use "you" never).
>
> PS: I am not native English speaker, of course.
>
> Best regards,
> Lera
>
--
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
No: what I mean by "indirect" is changing "you can do x" to "the user can do x". This sort of deflective writing reduces the immediacy of this being information for the person who is reading it right then. On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jean Weber [mailto:jeanwe...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:38 > > To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1 > > > > Active voice, direct speech (do this), and use of "you" (but not > > over-using "you" or the possessive "your") is standard modern > > technical writing in English. All of the books are written that way, > > and we should not even consider changing that. > > > > However, some writers (Peter Schofield in particular) tended to > > over-use "you" and "your," so I have been changing "your" to "the" in > > sentences like "When you have finished editing your image, add it to > > your document." becomes "When you have finished editing the image, add > > it to the document." He would also write things like, "To print part > > of a page, you do [X]" which I have been changing to "To print part of > > a page, do [X]" -- the "you" there isn't necessary. > [orcmid] > > What about "Complete editing the image and add it to the document" and > "Print part of a page is by [X]" or is that what you mean by indirect? > > > > --Jean > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: > > documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > > Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- > > unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
That is good to know. However, in the material I am looking at, the edits
do not seem to follow the style guide. The edits move from active to
passive voice and from direct to indirect speech.
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Olivier Hallot <
olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
> Hello Andrew, All
>
> In ODF Authors site, you can get the writing style guide in
>
> Home / LibreOffice / English / Resources for Contributors / Ch5 Style
> Guide
>
> I think it worth to all authors to follow it.
>
>
> Exerpt:
>
> Writing style
> The following list summarizes our preferred writing style. Some of these
> points are discussed in more detail in the tips for writers, reviews,
> and editors starting on page 6.
>
> * Use short, simple, easy-to-understand words and sentences. Be concise
> and clear.
>
> * Write in active voice, using passive voice only when necessary or
> appropriate. A case of appropriate passive voice is when the focus of
> the sentence is on the receiver of an action whose doer is obvious or is
> not important. For example, The File dialog box is displayed is OK.
>
> * Use the present tense, using future tense only when necessary or
> appropriate. Try to make your descriptions timeless. For example, write
> The File dialog box is displayed, rather than The File dialog box will
> be displayed. Use future tense only when one event is necessarily later
> than another. For example, If you use styles, your documents will be
> easier to maintain.
>
> * Avoid over-using you. For example, instead of saying if you want to
> have table headers repeat on a new page, you need to do yyy, say to have
> table headers repeat..., do yyy.
>
> * When appropriate (as in instructions), use the imperative mood. For
> example, instead of you should not use slang, say do not use slang.
>
> * In circumstances where the only alternative to you is the passive
> voice, use you. For example, instead of in this window xxx can be done,
> say in this window you can do xxx.
>
> * Use gender-neutral language, but don’t use awkward phrases like he or
> she to do so. See page 8 for some examples.
>
> Variations of English
>
> For consistency, when writing the user guides we are following US
> English spelling conventions and UK English punctuation conventions.
>
> See also “Punctuation” on page 6.
> You can use other spelling or punctuation conventions when writing other
> documents.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Olivier
>
>
> Em 07/04/2016 12:43, Andrew Wetmore escreveu:
> > I am also uncomfortable with the change from active to passive voice.
> > Passive voice is harder to read and to understand, expecially for those
> for
> > whom English is not the first language.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Wetmore
> wrote:
> >
> >> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
> >>
> >> I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> >> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> >> documentation.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman <
> hazeldeb...@googlemail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
> >>> Olivier Hallot wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello
> >>>>
> >>>> In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
> >>>> Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
> >>>> folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
> >>>> will be easy to see the changes.
> >>>>
> >>>> The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
> >>>> this is a Getting Started book.
> >>>>
> >>>> It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
> >>>> feedbak on the job already done.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you in advance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
> >>>>
> >>>> Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
> >>>> issue on permissions I need to fix.
&g
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
I am also uncomfortable with the change from active to passive voice.
Passive voice is harder to read and to understand, expecially for those for
whom English is not the first language.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Wetmore wrote:
> I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
>
> I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
> more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
> documentation.
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
>> Olivier Hallot wrote:
>>
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
>> > Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
>> > folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
>> > will be easy to see the changes.
>> >
>> > The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
>> > this is a Getting Started book.
>> >
>> > It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
>> > feedbak on the job already done.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
>> >
>> > Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
>> > issue on permissions I need to fix.
>> >
>>
>> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
>> and style.
>>
>> --
>> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
>> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
>> right to privacy?
>>
>> H Russman
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>> documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
--
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
I said this to Oliver directly, forgetting to "reply all":
I don't think it's a good idea to move away from immediacy ("you") to a
more remote tone ("the user"). This goes contrary to current trends in
documentation.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Hazel Russman
wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:59:01 -0300
> Olivier Hallot wrote:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting
> > Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft
> > folder for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it
> > will be easy to see the changes.
> >
> > The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that
> > this is a Getting Started book.
> >
> > It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a
> > feedbak on the job already done.
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> >
> >
> http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1
> >
> > Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an
> > issue on permissions I need to fix.
> >
>
> I've downloaded the preface. I'll have a look at it, mainly for English
> and style.
>
> --
> If any members of GCHQ are reading this, shame on you! I fought for
> your right to belong to a trade union and now you are taking away my
> right to privacy?
>
> H Russman
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
--
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started 5.1
I see the folder, but no files. On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Olivier Hallot < olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org> wrote: > Hello > > In the last weeks I updated the first 4 chapters of the 5.0 Getting > Started book to the 5.1 version and placed them in the 5.1 Draft folder > for revision. The files are with Track changes enabled so it will be > easy to see the changes. > > The contents addition are moderately deep in details, bearing that this > is a Getting Started book. > > It will be important to revise the contents and the English and give a > feedbak on the job already done. > > Thank you in advance > > http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-5.1 > > Note: The chapters are uploaded, if don't see them then there is an > issue on permissions I need to fix. > > -- > Olivier Hallot > Comunidade LibreOffice > http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Introduction
Hi, all: I am Andrew Wetmore, a playwright and software documentation expert in Nova Scotia, on the east coast of Canada. I have been using Libre Office (and Open Office before it) for a number of years, and would like to contribute in any way that is useful to strengthening the documentation for LibreOffice's various components. -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] New writer
Hi: I'm an experienced writer and editor, with about 15 years' experience on software documentation teams. I also have training as a software quality assurance specialist. Under my other hat, I write plays, screenplays, and choose-your-own-adventure games. I have been using LibreOffice for several years, migrating from Open Office. I request a user account for the ODF authors' site. -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
