Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 07:09:52PM -0400, Mark LaPierre wrote: > I've been writing test scripts quite a lot recently. Are there test > scripts for LO Base? Maybe that might be a good use of my time. Base is an area of LibreOffice that has significantly less unittests than the rest of LibreOffice. I just added *one* and David Ostrovsky / Andrzej Hunt have added a few in the more-or-less recent past. I'd be very happy to see the test coverage increase :) If you want to contribute unittests, please come over to the development mailing list: libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice We have several ways to write unit tests; one is in C++, one in Python and I *think* we can write them in Basic macros, too? (But I'm really not sure about the latter.) > I'm no C programmer so I don't think I've got a lot to offer with > coding. I'm assuming that LO Base is primarily written in C. (It is mostly in C++, by the way.) -- Lionel -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
Regarding the Base Handbook (translated from German). On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Robert Großkopf wrote: > Hello Mark, > > I 'm the person, who had written most of the German Base-Handbuch. > > Don't know where the English chapters of the old Handbook could be > downloaded. ODF-Autors, I think. The english version is made with of the > German Base-Handbuch 3.5. Only the chapter for the reports is from > version 4.0. I have seen, there is a version 4.0 - but it seems to be > the same. Yes, the English Base Handbook v4.0 is identical to the v3.5-3.6 Handbook; due to lack of time, we did not translate the changes made in the German version. The source ODT files for the English version are here: http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/base-handbook/published Thank you, Robert, for the links below to the v4.1 German files and your spreadsheet of changes. > I have created a Calc-document, which shows the difference between the > versions (only the chapters, which had been added) and, marked by > comments, the chapter, where you could find the new functions of Base in > version 4.1. This new functions are a "must be" for a book for version 4.1. > > This document, together with the whole LO 4.1-Handuch, you can find here: > http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/ > The docoment, which show the difference, is > http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/Vergleich_Base_Handbuecher.ods > > All these documents are written in German. But when I would try to > translate it could be I don't find the right words for the content > So could be better that someone will translate, who speaks English very > well. Whoever does the translating can decide whether to with the existing English translation and update it with the v4.1 changes, or start from the German 4.1 and do a complete new translation. This decision might vary depending on the chapter; some may have more changes than others. I have not yet had time to look at Robert's spreadsheet. In addition to translating, we might want to rewrite some material (such as examples) to suit English-speaking audiences better. This was done in a few places in the v3.5 handbook. IMO the goal should be to get a usable document done as quickly as possible and then amend it later if we want to. That's what we did with the v3.5 book. A more long-term goal is to combine the handbook material with work being done on the Base Guide. I will write more about the Base Guide in a separate note. BTW, we have a system for tracking who is doing what on each book, but unfortunately not everyone keeps it up to date. (I am as guilty of this as anyone; I get busy and forget.) It's on this page: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks --Jean --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
On 17/08/2013, at 9:49, Mark LaPierre wrote: > On 08/16/2013 02:35 AM, Robert Großkopf wrote: >> Hello Mark, >> >> I 'm the person, who had written most of the German Base-Handbuch. >> >>> >>> I've written documentation for programs that I've written. I've been >>> writing test scripts quite a lot recently. Are there test scripts for >>> LO Base? Maybe that might be a good use of my time. >> >> What Do you mean with "test scripts"? Could it be you are looking for >> example-databases? There are some databases already translated to >> english, but some other examples aren't. The examples of the >> Base-Handbuch 4.1 you will find here together with the chapters of the >> whole Base-Handbuch. >> >>> >>> I'm no C programmer so I don't think I've got a lot to offer with >>> coding. I'm assuming that LO Base is primarily written in C. >>> >>> I have a son who speaks German so maybe I can ask him to help me >>> translate the German Base documentation into English. >> >> Don't know where the English chapters of the old Handbook could be >> downloaded. ODF-Autors, I think. The english version is made with of the >> German Base-Handbuch 3.5. Only the chapter for the reports is from >> version 4.0. I have seen, there is a version 4.0 - but it seems to be >> the same. >> >> I have created a Calc-document, which shows the difference between the >> versions (only the chapters, which had been added) and, marked by >> comments, the chapter, where you could find the new functions of Base in >> version 4.1. This new functions are a "must be" for a book for version 4.1. >> >> This document, together with the whole LO 4.1-Handuch, you can find here: >> http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/ >> The docoment, which show the difference, is >> http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/Vergleich_Base_Handbuecher.ods >> >> All these documents are written in German. But when I would try to >> translate it could be I don't find the right words for the content. My >> favorite website with a whole traffic when reporting bugs is >> http://www.dict.cc/ >> So could be better that someone will translate, who speaks English very >> well. >> >> Regards >> >> Robert >> >> > > Hey Robert, > > When we develop a new piece of software we also write a test script that > fully describes all the steps that a user should take and the results > expected. For example: > > Step 1: > Action: Click the [File] button. > Result: File dialog box opens. List of files appears in the scroll box. > Pass:Fail:Comment: > > Step 2: > Action:Click the [Up Level] button. > Result:File scroll box moves up one level in the file system. > Pass:Fail:Comment: > > This provides a fully documented functional description of the software and > verification that the software functions as advertised. Nothing goes to > production until it has a clean test script. > > Writing test scripts, and later documentation, is onerous work that most > developers prefer to avoid. Writing code is way more fun. > > The result is that we end up with lots of undocumented software. It has > functions that are accessible with the right combination of inputs, just like > a video game, but you have to poke around and experiment to discover what it > does. Undocumented software is just a video game. The Docs Team does user docs, not developer docs or testing/QA docs like test scripts, though of course the program needs all types. You might like to contact the developers and/or the QA team to see what they have and/or what else they might want to have. I know they can always use more help (just as all of the teams can use more help). Later today I will get on my computer and give you more info about the user docs for Base. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
On 08/16/2013 02:35 AM, Robert Großkopf wrote: Hello Mark, I 'm the person, who had written most of the German Base-Handbuch. I've written documentation for programs that I've written. I've been writing test scripts quite a lot recently. Are there test scripts for LO Base? Maybe that might be a good use of my time. What Do you mean with "test scripts"? Could it be you are looking for example-databases? There are some databases already translated to english, but some other examples aren't. The examples of the Base-Handbuch 4.1 you will find here together with the chapters of the whole Base-Handbuch. I'm no C programmer so I don't think I've got a lot to offer with coding. I'm assuming that LO Base is primarily written in C. I have a son who speaks German so maybe I can ask him to help me translate the German Base documentation into English. Don't know where the English chapters of the old Handbook could be downloaded. ODF-Autors, I think. The english version is made with of the German Base-Handbuch 3.5. Only the chapter for the reports is from version 4.0. I have seen, there is a version 4.0 - but it seems to be the same. I have created a Calc-document, which shows the difference between the versions (only the chapters, which had been added) and, marked by comments, the chapter, where you could find the new functions of Base in version 4.1. This new functions are a "must be" for a book for version 4.1. This document, together with the whole LO 4.1-Handuch, you can find here: http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/ The docoment, which show the difference, is http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/Vergleich_Base_Handbuecher.ods All these documents are written in German. But when I would try to translate it could be I don't find the right words for the content. My favorite website with a whole traffic when reporting bugs is http://www.dict.cc/ So could be better that someone will translate, who speaks English very well. Regards Robert Hey Robert, When we develop a new piece of software we also write a test script that fully describes all the steps that a user should take and the results expected. For example: Step 1: Action: Click the [File] button. Result: File dialog box opens. List of files appears in the scroll box. Pass: Fail: Comment: Step 2: Action: Click the [Up Level] button. Result: File scroll box moves up one level in the file system. Pass: Fail: Comment: This provides a fully documented functional description of the software and verification that the software functions as advertised. Nothing goes to production until it has a clean test script. Writing test scripts, and later documentation, is onerous work that most developers prefer to avoid. Writing code is way more fun. The result is that we end up with lots of undocumented software. It has functions that are accessible with the right combination of inputs, just like a video game, but you have to poke around and experiment to discover what it does. Undocumented software is just a video game. -- _ °v° /(_)\ ^ ^ Mark LaPierre Registered Linux user No #267004 https://linuxcounter.net/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:35:00 +0200 Robert Großkopf wrote: > Hello Mark, > > I 'm the person, who had written most of the German Base-Handbuch. > All these documents are written in German. But when I would try to > translate it could be I don't find the right words for the content. My > favorite website with a whole traffic when reporting bugs is > http://www.dict.cc/ > So could be better that someone will translate, who speaks English very > well. > > Regards > > Robert > Well, I'm still around, but I'd feel happier going over someone else's translation for English style than doing it myself again. Hazel -- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
Hello Mark, I 'm the person, who had written most of the German Base-Handbuch. > > I've written documentation for programs that I've written. I've been > writing test scripts quite a lot recently. Are there test scripts for > LO Base? Maybe that might be a good use of my time. What Do you mean with "test scripts"? Could it be you are looking for example-databases? There are some databases already translated to english, but some other examples aren't. The examples of the Base-Handbuch 4.1 you will find here together with the chapters of the whole Base-Handbuch. > > I'm no C programmer so I don't think I've got a lot to offer with > coding. I'm assuming that LO Base is primarily written in C. > > I have a son who speaks German so maybe I can ask him to help me > translate the German Base documentation into English. Don't know where the English chapters of the old Handbook could be downloaded. ODF-Autors, I think. The english version is made with of the German Base-Handbuch 3.5. Only the chapter for the reports is from version 4.0. I have seen, there is a version 4.0 - but it seems to be the same. I have created a Calc-document, which shows the difference between the versions (only the chapters, which had been added) and, marked by comments, the chapter, where you could find the new functions of Base in version 4.1. This new functions are a "must be" for a book for version 4.1. This document, together with the whole LO 4.1-Handuch, you can find here: http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/ The docoment, which show the difference, is http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/lo_hb/Vergleich_Base_Handbuecher.ods All these documents are written in German. But when I would try to translate it could be I don't find the right words for the content. My favorite website with a whole traffic when reporting bugs is http://www.dict.cc/ So could be better that someone will translate, who speaks English very well. Regards Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base documentation
Hey Jean, I'm used to using LO so ODF would work for me. I've written documentation for programs that I've written. I've been writing test scripts quite a lot recently. Are there test scripts for LO Base? Maybe that might be a good use of my time. I'm no C programmer so I don't think I've got a lot to offer with coding. I'm assuming that LO Base is primarily written in C. I have a son who speaks German so maybe I can ask him to help me translate the German Base documentation into English. I've got an account on ODFAuthors. I wasn't able to make much of any sense of what I found there. Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I hope I can be of some use to the project. On 08/15/2013 12:11 AM, Jean Weber wrote: I'm travelling and will be offline for about 24 hours, nor can I check right now to see if you have an ODFAuthors account. When I get home I should stay there for a few months (unusual for me), so I may be have time for some hand-holding. Let's start by finding out what you might like to do, and what if any experience you have with producing user docs, whether book length or shorter (how-tos, tutorials, examples, FAQs, tips & hints). Do you prefer to work in ODT format or wiki format or what? So far most of our user docs are in ODT/PDF but there is no reason why everything needs to be in that form. Give me some feedback on those topics and we'll take it from there. --Jean On 14/08/2013, at 20:00, Mark LaPierre wrote: Personally, I love this string. I tried to sign up to help with the documentation for Base since that is where my interest lies. I got as far as joining this mail list. My experience is more in line with Tom's description. I would really appreciate someone volunteering to "hold my hand" as I take a second shot at joining the documentation team. Anyone want to step up??? ;-) _ °v° /(_)\ ^ ^ Mark LaPierre Registered Linux user No #267004 https://linuxcounter.net/ -- _ °v° /(_)\ ^ ^ Mark LaPierre Registered Linux user No #267004 https://linuxcounter.net/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] RE: Base documentation
Hi :) I have put the better link on the wiki now. :) Some people in the documentation team might be interested in Robin's earlier posts in this thread. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 1/2/12, robinbt2 wrote: From: robinbt2 Subject: RE: Base documentation To: "'Tom Davies'" Date: Wednesday, 1 February, 2012, 17:57 Hi TomFeel free to forward my email address to the documentation list.Thanks for the info about Lulu and the books. Is Base likely to be updated re. the sql engine in the near future? All the best Robin Beaumont From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 01 February 2012 10:59 To: robin beaumont Subject: RE: Base documentation Hi :) Thanks :) I put the first link up already. I will swap it out for the better link later hopefully. you could subscribe to the documentation list yourself and ask them directly. Or could i just forward your email to the documentation list? Most of their docs are released under a Creative Commons license (CC-by-SA) and then put up on Lulu so that people can buy the completed books if they want something real rather than downloaded. It's a cheap way to get books widely distributed and hopefully earn some money. A couple of people also do their own books hence some of the links at the bottom of the wiki-page. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 1/2/12, robin beaumont wrote: From: robin beaumont Subject: RE: Base documentation To: "'Tom Davies'" Date: Wednesday, 1 February, 2012, 9:51Hi TomCertainly - I would be honoured if you felt my stuff was good enough to link to. The link you have given below is to a backup I keep, the most up to date version can be found on:www.robin-beaumont.co.uk/virtualclassroom/chap8/libreoffice_base.htmlI also plan on making the equivalent youtube videos to each of the handouts, and will put the link on the same page.Unfortunately two of the tutorials have not been completed at the moment, that is one on reports and one on forms any help gratefully received - sorry I can't pay anyone anything obviously anything will be attributed.You might be interested to know that the tutorials are part of a course in healthcare systems development, focusing on uml, which you can find at http://www.robin-beaumont.co.uk/virtualclassroom/edin_cl1/index.html Any comments most welcome and I'll add a comments box to the bottom of each of the pages for the libreoffice tutorials so people can leave any. All the best Robin Beaumont From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 01 February 2012 1:37 AM To: ro...@organplayers.co.uk Cc: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Base documentation Hi :) Drew from TDF recently pointed out your Base tutorial http://www.fhi.rcsed.ac.uk/rbeaumont/virtualclassroom/chap8/libreoffice_base.html I was wondering if you would like to add a link to it from the TDF documentation wiki http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#LibreOffice_Base_Guide Regards from Tom :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base Documentation
Le 23/05/11 17:11, Rogerio Luz Coelho a écrit : Hi Rogerio, > If not Base will be abandoned is that it? > > Is the actual state of this comonent usable at all? > I can't speak for what any of the developers might feel, I know that some have said they never use Base at all, or rarely, and therefore see no point in worrying about its bugs, or developing further for it. I don't know what the Steering Committee, TDF itself or any of the other guiding instances of the Foundation think either. The fact that there is a lot of Java stuff in there as the basic underpinning functionality does not plead in its favour, that is for sure, at least as far as I can tell from reading the dev lists, and comments I have seen on the dev irc. At the moment there is no attributed Base specialist programmer/developer in the LibreOffice project. That is not to say that someone won't step up to the mark, but the question would then be, when, and if so, would he/she be able to revive/maintain the module ? The way things are going at the moment, the headlong rush with which things are proceeding in other modules will IMHO necessarily lead to more and more incidents with regard to the Base module. A case in point is my personal conviction that recent changes to Calc threw up an unforeseen problem with the Oracle Report Builder extension which is bundled with LibreOfffice (the chart functionality in particular). I can not prove my theory, not being a programmer, and it seems that it is not so easy after all to find out which changes in the git repo caused things to become that way, but suffice it to say that the ORB worked fine without interfering with Calc charting in 3.3.2, and then suddenly started causing problems when 3.4 was in beta. In between, there was also the code merge from OOo, so of course, there is also the possibility that things in that merge messed up the inter-relationship between Calc charting and the ORB. And finally, is it usable ? Yes, but... - the connectors (postgres, mysql native) ought to be rebuilt with each new build (this is what Sun always did). This is currently not the case because these connectors are not considered core functionality and therefore not bundled with the extensions or integrated into the general code of the product ; - mailmerge is, in the eyes of many "former OOo users" (myself included), unusable, and the priority to fix it keeps getting pushed back with each new release ; - it suffers from various string, date, configuration settings and formatting issues ; all of which lead to frustration for the end user. Personally, I am finding it harder and harder to recommend LibreOffice Base as a competent module, I tend to fall back to OOo 3.2.1 or, on the Mac, to NeoOffice, because I can live without the changes introduced into LibreOffice since its inception. However, I can understand that every user will have his or her own particular needs. We desperately need a Base developer - if you happen to know one, it would be nice if he/she could spare some time to help out the project :-)) Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
