Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

The KEY jack being located to the back, I can't really say that I thought 
that anything else was possible.


But, my history was a typical one of the early 1980's.  My first rig was a 
Swan 500.  Yeah - try to copy CW with that,  As it turned out, I made a few 
QSO's on 40 and 15 and got hooked on CW in spite of the barn-door bandwidth 
of the Swan.  This was enough where I began to get up early in the morning 
to work Europeans on 15.  My elmer - who sold me the Swan 500 - let me know 
I could have his R-4A for ten bucks.  Thus began my relationship with Drake 
radios.


That receiver had to be thoroughly cleaned in the bandswitch area.  Once I 
did that, I got a Johnson T-R switch and started using the R-4A for my 
receiver and the Swan for the transmitter.  It sort of matched, given the 
aquatic waterfowl nature of the rigs' nomenclature...


I eventually amassed enough funds to go with a more serious rig.  I bought 
the C-Line rigs from K8PS.  I had learned how to operate (and how NOT to 
operate) Field Day on these rigs!  I kept them until I found a set of 
late-S/N C-line rigs at Hosstraders in NH.  That set replaced Peter's rigs. 
I still have the C-4 from that set that I bought.  I owned and operated a 
TR-3 and a TR-4 from my trailer and later motorhome (with a DC-3, no less!) 
when camping.  This taught me more about "vibrator power supplies", which I 
had gained a rudimentary knowledge of when I owned a '40 Pontiac with an AM 
radio that didn't initially work. (I loved old cars and still do...)


Two years ago, I saw a distraught-looking A-Line on a table at the Shelby 
Hamfest.  This is the set that, up until recently, I've been asking most of 
the questions about here on the reflector.  When I cleaned them, they went 
from really grubby and "why did I buy these?" to "Now I remember why the 
Drake stuff had the reputation that it has".  Aside from that PTO that you 
all know about, these rigs have shined.


Since then, I've unloaded my Hallicrafters and Johnson rigs so that I can 
make more room for Drake stuff.  Think about it: Drake was making equipment 
that was a fraction of the size of what else was available at the time, and 
it out-performed most of what was available.  I'm looking for more Drake 
equipment that will be used alternately with my K3 as the spirit moves me. 
(BTW, the K3 is an American radio - though the chips may be made 
elsewhere...)


I used a C-Line to rack up considerable totals in contests up until the late 
'80's.  I would occasionally beat out K1AR in contest phone pile-ups, with 
comments of, "Nice signal!".  I went to a Kenwood TS-930S at the time 
because the 930 had a lot going for it.  From there to a '940 and from there 
to a Yaesu FT-1000D.  During all those years, I missed the Drake rigs.


So, yes - I can remember those days while remembering that most older rigs 
needed to adapt to the "new age" - Including meeting more stringent FCC 
requirements.  I still wanted a B-Line, because out of all the Drake radios 
I ever owned, the B's I had were the ones that I owned for the shortest 
length of time.


I'm still looking for a proper T-4XB.  For now, I have two T-4X's that are 
fully-functional.  Since I keep them at 100W output, from a practical 
standpoint I really don't have a reason to find a T-4XB.  I just want one 
:-)  I have an Elecraft K3 that I use for chasing DX and contesting, and 
yet - The R-4B and T-4X are being used again for routine DX'ing.  I'm 
thinking about keeping a traditional paper logbook when I'm using these 
rigs: the logs that I look at from the early '80's do have a lot more 
"personality" than the  computerized logs I've kept since the late 80's.


Anyway, I figured you'd be interested and perhaps a lot of the Drakelist 
would be interested in where I came from.  I didn't feel like I was an Olde 
Timer until around 2006.  It's funny how time creeps up on ya...


73,

Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Garey Barrell" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:06 PM
To: "Steve Wedge" 
Cc: "Drake List" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


Steve -

I forgot, we also got the KEY jack moved to the side so we could use those 
neat little flat plugs.!!!  :-)  THIS really WAS an improvement though, 
because a big old straight bodied plug really interfered with the 
TRANSCEIVE and FUNCTION switch operation.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Garey Barrell wrote:

Steve -

Not really.  Yes, the neon 'PTO in Use' lights were a nice touch, but 
the 'above the belt' switch from aluminum to black lettering made all the 
difference in the world in being able to READ what they said.  The new 
MAIN TUNING knob with 'dished' skirt also made the

Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

Being a mostly CW operator, I'm not surprised at this.

I've been making an attempt at going back to SSB - which would be a grand 
movement for me from c. 1989 and even then, probably more since '85.


It's funny, but the T-4X that I got with the R-4B already had the B-series 
knob with it.  Since I routinely don't run these rigs beyond 100W in either 
mode, I suppose all of the directives, etc. are probably meaningless to me.
I suppose that anything required beyond 100W with these rigs will require a 
"helper" anyway.


I have that "helper" and it, too, will be online soon - to be called upon 
when needed. :-)


Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Garey Barrell" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:57 PM
To: "Steve Wedge" 
Cc: "Drake List" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


Steve -

Not really.  Yes, the neon 'PTO in Use' lights were a nice touch, but 
the 'above the belt' switch from aluminum to black lettering made all the 
difference in the world in being able to READ what they said.  The new 
MAIN TUNING knob with 'dished' skirt also made them much easier on the 
eyes, especially in lighting with any glare.  That's why MANY of the R-4 
and R-4A receivers no longer have the old main knob and flat skirt, but 
ended up with the 'new' style with the nice bright aluminum center.  LOTS 
of those knobs and skirts were sold when the "B" came out.  Most important 
of all though was the change from 4 pole crystal filters in the T-4X to 
the 8 pole used in all later models.  The T-4X actually doesn't meet the 
'Purity of Emissions' requirements in the FCC regulations.  Both the 
Carrier and Opposite Sideband suppression are much poorer in the T-4X. 
Obviously the T-4X is 'grandfathered' in, and if you are not driving an 
amplifier, most will never notice the difference.  However, IF you use an 
amp, and/or have a nearby ham neighbor, you may make new friends!  :-) 
Of course if you only operate CW, not a problem as the T-4X has that nice, 
smooth T-4X(any) keying.  The 'B' also saw the conversion from bipolar to 
FET in the PTO for improved stability.


Other than the above, not much difference!  :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
#2 is still in its pristine, late-1960's state.  I just bought it with a 
very nice-but-dusty T-4X and MS-4 and AC-4 from Shelby.  I have shut if 
down for now, though, as I've noticed significant AC hum on the signals. 
Once I get my PTO back, I'll run my R-4A with the revitalized PTO whilst 
I begin work on R-4B #2.  This will include re-capping all electrolytics.


My take is that this set I bought at Shelby represents what a lot of hams 
with Drakes had during that period: The receiver was enough of a 
progression from the R-4A to be worth upgrading, but the transmitter 
wasn't really different enough to warrant dumping the T-4X for a T-4XB. 
From what I've seen, the major difference is the neon dial indicator.



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Garey Barrell" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 6:13 PM
To: "Steve Wedge" 
Cc: "Drake List" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


Steve -

What did you do to the PTO in R-4B #2?  I thought they were both jumpy?

I would use just about any small coax you have for the injection.  It's 
not long enough to matter what impedance or loss (within reason!) it is.


The headphone jack on the R-4A was in that location, and the panel still 
has the locator mark in the "B" location, and of course the main chassis 
has the cut-out needed.  Drake probably had enough 'complaints' about 
the front panel location interfering with access to the RF GAIN and the 
SSB/CW switch.  I didn't complain, but the PHONE plug body sticking out 
there made it very difficult to switch the SSB/CW switch.


So now we have to deal with the silly little flat plugs!

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
Now I'm home (and listening to R-4B #2, which is going to need to be 
re-capped but is otherwise working in a sterling manner) and checked 
out the info on the PBT assembly.  It sounds pretty simple once the 
cover is removed.


I'm now at the point with R-4B #1 where I feel that I owe it to the rig 
to put it back - more or less - to the way Bob Drake intended it to be. 
That means I'll need to re-route a new Injection cable inside the rig, 
as the PO shortened it when he moved it over to the SPARE location (WHY 
he did t

Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Garey Barrell]

Steve -

I forgot, we also got the KEY jack moved to the side so we could use those neat little flat 
plugs.!!!  :-)  THIS really WAS an improvement though, because a big old straight bodied plug really 
interfered with the TRANSCEIVE and FUNCTION switch operation.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Garey Barrell wrote:

Steve -

Not really.  Yes, the neon 'PTO in Use' lights were a nice touch, but the 'above the belt' 
switch from aluminum to black lettering made all the difference in the world in being able to READ 
what they said.  The new MAIN TUNING knob with 'dished' skirt also made them much easier on the 
eyes, especially in lighting with any glare.  That's why MANY of the R-4 and R-4A receivers no 
longer have the old main knob and flat skirt, but ended up with the 'new' style with the nice 
bright aluminum center.  LOTS of those knobs and skirts were sold when the "B" came out.  Most 
important of all though was the change from 4 pole crystal filters in the T-4X to the 8 pole used 
in all later models.  The T-4X actually doesn't meet the 'Purity of Emissions' requirements in the 
FCC regulations.  Both the Carrier and Opposite Sideband suppression are much poorer in the 
T-4X.   Obviously the T-4X is 'grandfathered' in, and if you are not driving an amplifier, most 
will never notice the difference.  However, IF you use an amp, and/or have a nearby ham neighbor, 
you may make new friends!  :-)   Of course if you only operate CW, not a problem as the T-4X has 
that nice, smooth T-4X(any) keying.  The 'B' also saw the conversion from bipolar to FET in the 
PTO for improved stability.


Other than the above, not much difference!  :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs




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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Garey Barrell]

Steve -

Not really.  Yes, the neon 'PTO in Use' lights were a nice touch, but the 'above the belt' 
switch from aluminum to black lettering made all the difference in the world in being able to READ 
what they said.  The new MAIN TUNING knob with 'dished' skirt also made them much easier on the 
eyes, especially in lighting with any glare.  That's why MANY of the R-4 and R-4A receivers no 
longer have the old main knob and flat skirt, but ended up with the 'new' style with the nice bright 
aluminum center.  LOTS of those knobs and skirts were sold when the "B" came out.  Most important of 
all though was the change from 4 pole crystal filters in the T-4X to the 8 pole used in all later 
models.  The T-4X actually doesn't meet the 'Purity of Emissions' requirements in the FCC 
regulations.  Both the Carrier and Opposite Sideband suppression are much poorer in the T-4X.   
Obviously the T-4X is 'grandfathered' in, and if you are not driving an amplifier, most will never 
notice the difference.  However, IF you use an amp, and/or have a nearby ham neighbor, you may make 
new friends!  :-)   Of course if you only operate CW, not a problem as the T-4X has that nice, 
smooth T-4X(any) keying.  The 'B' also saw the conversion from bipolar to FET in the PTO for 
improved stability.


Other than the above, not much difference!  :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
#2 is still in its pristine, late-1960's state.  I just bought it with a very nice-but-dusty T-4X 
and MS-4 and AC-4 from Shelby.  I have shut if down for now, though, as I've noticed significant 
AC hum on the signals.  Once I get my PTO back, I'll run my R-4A with the revitalized PTO whilst I 
begin work on R-4B #2.  This will include re-capping all electrolytics.


My take is that this set I bought at Shelby represents what a lot of hams with Drakes had during 
that period: The receiver was enough of a progression from the R-4A to be worth upgrading, but the 
transmitter wasn't really different enough to warrant dumping the T-4X for a T-4XB.  From what 
I've seen, the major difference is the neon dial indicator.



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.


--
From: "Garey Barrell" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 6:13 PM
To: "Steve Wedge" 
Cc: "Drake List" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


Steve -

What did you do to the PTO in R-4B #2?  I thought they were both jumpy?

I would use just about any small coax you have for the injection.  It's not long enough to matter 
what impedance or loss (within reason!) it is.


The headphone jack on the R-4A was in that location, and the panel still has the locator mark in 
the "B" location, and of course the main chassis has the cut-out needed.  Drake probably had 
enough 'complaints' about the front panel location interfering with access to the RF GAIN and the 
SSB/CW switch.  I didn't complain, but the PHONE plug body sticking out there made it very 
difficult to switch the SSB/CW switch.


So now we have to deal with the silly little flat plugs!

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
Now I'm home (and listening to R-4B #2, which is going to need to be re-capped but is otherwise 
working in a sterling manner) and checked out the info on the PBT assembly.  It sounds pretty 
simple once the cover is removed.


I'm now at the point with R-4B #1 where I feel that I owe it to the rig to put it back - more or 
less - to the way Bob Drake intended it to be. That means I'll need to re-route a new Injection 
cable inside the rig, as the PO shortened it when he moved it over to the SPARE location (WHY he 
did this, I will never know, and it's my understanding that he's an SK). The audio mods I'll 
probably leave in, as the rig sounds nice and rich, but that variable AGC delay is seriously 
messing up the ability to control RF gain.  I  think I'll put a headphone jack where that extra 
goofy knob is as I have seen more than a couple of B's that have had this change (in all 
honesty, moving the headphone jack to the side wasn't a great move...)


Question here is this: what can I use for the internal cable in the R-4B to go from the 
pre-mixer to the INJ jack?  I will have to replace this since the PO shortened it :-(



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.


--
From: "Chris Kepus" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:25 AM
To: ; "'Steve Wedge'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


ROTHFLMAO!!! Mad

Re: [Drakelist] L7 Fan noise

[Jim Shorney]

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:11:53 -0500, Woody wrote:

>Hello, I just picked up a Beautiful L7 today, it seems to work fine-But the 
>fan is making a good bit of noise (the guy forgot to tell me that) its not 
>jumping off the table or anything but when it goes into the high speed its 
>quite obnoxious. I've never fooled with one of these before, I've redone the 
>L4B fans before and it was a pain to get out. Anyone know any secrets about 
>these?  Thanks


It's a common enough fan, easy to replace. Information is in the Drakelist
archive, I'm sure. K9SQG had some at reasonable prices, I'm sure he will chime
in if that is so. I actually found a spare in my junque box AFTER I purchased
one from him... Figures.

73

-Jim


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

"Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime."

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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[Drakelist] L7 Fan noise

[Woody]

*Hello, I just picked up a Beautiful L7 today, it seems to work fine-But the
fan is making a good bit of noise (the guy forgot to tell me that) its not
jumping off the table or anything but when it goes into the high speed its
quite obnoxious. I've never fooled with one of these before, I've redone the
L4B fans before and it was a pain to get out. Anyone know any secrets about
these? *
*Thanks*
*Woody
*

-- 
* *
   * If you forward this e-mail, please delete the forwarding history, which
includes my email address.   It is a courtesy to me and to others who do not
wish to have their e-mail addresses sent all over the world.  *
* *
*   ** If you are including me in a multi-address email,** please use the**
Bcc **feature.** In your email address which will be under the TO: block. It
still sends emails the same but everyone does not see the other address only
theirs. *
*Thanks*
*"Woody"*
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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

#2 is still in its pristine, late-1960's state.  I just bought it with a 
very nice-but-dusty T-4X and MS-4 and AC-4 from Shelby.  I have shut if down 
for now, though, as I've noticed significant AC hum on the signals.  Once I 
get my PTO back, I'll run my R-4A with the revitalized PTO whilst I begin 
work on R-4B #2.  This will include re-capping all electrolytics.


My take is that this set I bought at Shelby represents what a lot of hams 
with Drakes had during that period: The receiver was enough of a progression 
from the R-4A to be worth upgrading, but the transmitter wasn't really 
different enough to warrant dumping the T-4X for a T-4XB.  From what I've 
seen, the major difference is the neon dial indicator.



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Garey Barrell" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 6:13 PM
To: "Steve Wedge" 
Cc: "Drake List" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


Steve -

What did you do to the PTO in R-4B #2?  I thought they were both jumpy?

I would use just about any small coax you have for the injection.  It's 
not long enough to matter what impedance or loss (within reason!) it is.


The headphone jack on the R-4A was in that location, and the panel still 
has the locator mark in the "B" location, and of course the main chassis 
has the cut-out needed.  Drake probably had enough 'complaints' about the 
front panel location interfering with access to the RF GAIN and the SSB/CW 
switch.  I didn't complain, but the PHONE plug body sticking out there 
made it very difficult to switch the SSB/CW switch.


So now we have to deal with the silly little flat plugs!

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
Now I'm home (and listening to R-4B #2, which is going to need to be 
re-capped but is otherwise working in a sterling manner) and checked out 
the info on the PBT assembly.  It sounds pretty simple once the cover is 
removed.


I'm now at the point with R-4B #1 where I feel that I owe it to the rig 
to put it back - more or less - to the way Bob Drake intended it to be. 
That means I'll need to re-route a new Injection cable inside the rig, as 
the PO shortened it when he moved it over to the SPARE location (WHY he 
did this, I will never know, and it's my understanding that he's an SK). 
The audio mods I'll probably leave in, as the rig sounds nice and rich, 
but that variable AGC delay is seriously messing up the ability to 
control RF gain.  I  think I'll put a headphone jack where that extra 
goofy knob is as I have seen more than a couple of B's that have had this 
change (in all honesty, moving the headphone jack to the side wasn't a 
great move...)


Question here is this: what can I use for the internal cable in the R-4B 
to go from the pre-mixer to the INJ jack?  I will have to replace this 
since the PO shortened it :-(



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Chris Kepus" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:25 AM
To: ; "'Steve Wedge'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


ROTHFLMAO!!! Made my day reading your softly worded post, Garey! Had to
clean up some coffee that squirted out, though.   RTFCD and derivatives;
i.e., RTFIM, RTFD, etc.,  are most fun play words. :-

73,
Chris
W7JPG


"As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA"







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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Garey Barrell]

Steve -

What did you do to the PTO in R-4B #2?  I thought they were both jumpy?

I would use just about any small coax you have for the injection.  It's not long enough to matter 
what impedance or loss (within reason!) it is.


The headphone jack on the R-4A was in that location, and the panel still has the locator mark in the 
"B" location, and of course the main chassis has the cut-out needed.  Drake probably had enough 
'complaints' about the front panel location interfering with access to the RF GAIN and the SSB/CW 
switch.  I didn't complain, but the PHONE plug body sticking out there made it very difficult to 
switch the SSB/CW switch.


So now we have to deal with the silly little flat plugs!

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:
Now I'm home (and listening to R-4B #2, which is going to need to be re-capped but is otherwise 
working in a sterling manner) and checked out the info on the PBT assembly.  It sounds pretty 
simple once the cover is removed.


I'm now at the point with R-4B #1 where I feel that I owe it to the rig to put it back - more or 
less - to the way Bob Drake intended it to be.  That means I'll need to re-route a new Injection 
cable inside the rig, as the PO shortened it when he moved it over to the SPARE location (WHY he 
did this, I will never know, and it's my understanding that he's an SK).  The audio mods I'll 
probably leave in, as the rig sounds nice and rich, but that variable AGC delay is seriously 
messing up the ability to control RF gain.  I  think I'll put a headphone jack where that extra 
goofy knob is as I have seen more than a couple of B's that have had this change (in all honesty, 
moving the headphone jack to the side wasn't a great move...)


Question here is this: what can I use for the internal cable in the R-4B to go from the pre-mixer 
to the INJ jack?  I will have to replace this since the PO shortened it :-(



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.


--
From: "Chris Kepus" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:25 AM
To: ; "'Steve Wedge'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


ROTHFLMAO!!! Made my day reading your softly worded post, Garey! Had to
clean up some coffee that squirted out, though.   RTFCD and derivatives;
i.e., RTFIM, RTFD, etc.,  are most fun play words. :-

73,
Chris
W7JPG


"As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA"







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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

Now I'm home (and listening to R-4B #2, which is going to need to be 
re-capped but is otherwise working in a sterling manner) and checked out the 
info on the PBT assembly.  It sounds pretty simple once the cover is 
removed.


I'm now at the point with R-4B #1 where I feel that I owe it to the rig to 
put it back - more or less - to the way Bob Drake intended it to be.  That 
means I'll need to re-route a new Injection cable inside the rig, as the PO 
shortened it when he moved it over to the SPARE location (WHY he did this, I 
will never know, and it's my understanding that he's an SK).  The audio mods 
I'll probably leave in, as the rig sounds nice and rich, but that variable 
AGC delay is seriously messing up the ability to control RF gain.  I  think 
I'll put a headphone jack where that extra goofy knob is as I have seen more 
than a couple of B's that have had this change (in all honesty, moving the 
headphone jack to the side wasn't a great move...)


Question here is this: what can I use for the internal cable in the R-4B to 
go from the pre-mixer to the INJ jack?  I will have to replace this since 
the PO shortened it :-(



Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.



--
From: "Chris Kepus" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:25 AM
To: ; "'Steve Wedge'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?


ROTHFLMAO!!! Made my day reading your softly worded post, Garey! Had to
clean up some coffee that squirted out, though.   RTFCD and derivatives;
i.e., RTFIM, RTFD, etc.,  are most fun play words. :-

73,
Chris
W7JPG


"As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA"





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Re: [Drakelist] Here We Go Again...!!!

[Eddy Swynar]

Hi Garey & Co.,

Well, for what it's worth, here's a chronology of my fun day to-day, most of it 
spent at the work bench before the dis-assembled T-4X, my Heathkit SB-301 
receiver, & a digital frequency meter...I'm STILL not sure as to what, if 
anything(!), I've learned from all this! Gonna take a day, or two, for me to 
digest it all. 

Guys, If you've never ever had issues with your Drake PTO, feel free to DELETE 
this message right now---otherwise, read on (it might make sense to you! Hi). 
In any event, here goes:  

-I pre-set both the SB-301 & the T-4X on 7000-KHz, as confirmed by the crystal 
calibrator of the receiver;

-I then removed the PTO shield can. The frequency of the transmitter rose to 
7114-KHz, as expected;

-I then snipped out that white tubular capacitor, which we all assumed was a 
33-pfd. NPO unit. With the can still off of the PTO, the transmitter frequency 
dropped to 7038-KHz;

-I did not replace the cap, & noted that the frequency rose to 7055-KHz with 
the can replaced over the PTO;

-I couldn't find a 33-pfd. replacement in my junque box for the tubular white 
capacitor---instead, I barely managed to wedge a ceramic NPO trimmer capacitor 
(2.5 - 25-pfd.) where the fixed cap was;

-I then adjusted the trimmer, looking for the original 7114-KHz with the PTO 
out of the can;

-Once I set it to that frequency, I replaced the can---the frequency was some 
7060-KHz, rather than the 7000-KHz that I expected (I guess the close proximity 
of the trimmer to the can was the key factor here);

-I re-set the capacitor several times, removing & replacing the can: I could 
NOT get the transmitter to 7000-KHz (the lowest I could attain was 7050-KHz);

-I figured that at 25-pfd., the trimmer needed more "C" to replicate the 
original cap's 33-pfd. value, & to get the frequency down to 7000-KHz---so I 
paralleled the trimmer with a fixed silver mica cap of 22-pfd. (I figured I 
could compensate down to 33-pfd. by virtue of the trimmer's adjustment);

-The LOWEST frequency I could achieve with the two caps now was some 7500-KHz! 
That certainly made no sense to me, unless the tubular cap is itself hooked-up 
into the oscillator tank in some sort of final SERIES mode;

-I removed BOTH caps, and installed a "gimmick" capacitor of just a few 
pfd.---the lowest frequency was some 7020 KHz, and I had to "slip" the dial 
manually for proper calibration, and finally,

-I re-installed the original tubular cap!

Funny thing is, the signal was warbley-sounding right up to the time that I 
commenced my "surgery"---after I removed the tubular cap, the warbling 
stopped...and the signal is still clean now, even with the original cap 
re-installed.

Does any of this make sense to anyone...? This thing is driving me to drink...!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ






On 2011-09-23, at 9:46 AM, Garey Barrell wrote:

> Eddy -
> 
> I 'think' you're barking up the wrong tree unless you have already replaced 
> the two 45 pF cap.   If the frequency of the PTO shifts several kHz or tens 
> of kHz, that small, (probably less than 10% of the total resonating 
> capacitance,) isn't likely to correct it.
> 
> By the way, many small ceramic trimmers are temperature compensated, usually 
> coded by color.  Many ceramic compression trimmers you see are N750, so be 
> careful what you use.
> 
> 73, Garey - K4OAH
> Glen Allen, VA
> 
> Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
> and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
> 
> 
> 
> Eddy Swynar wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> Well, to-day I plan to "snip" that white tubular capacitor out of my PTO,&  
>> see what might happen...
>> 
>> I'll note the frequency on my receiver AND the PTO before doing this, as the 
>> frequency from the PTO climbs some 100-KHz in the absence of its "can": I'll 
>> then, probably, temporarily install a small air trimmer in place of the 
>> tubular cap,&  play with the settings until the frequency might return to 
>> where it originally was, in the interest of linearity.
>> 
>> I can then sub the trimmer with a fixed s.m. capacitor, perhaps in parallel 
>> with a small ceramic trimmer.
>> 
>> Stay tuned---and wish me luck!
>> 
>> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>> 
>> 
>> *
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2011-09-22, at 3:36 PM, Garey Barrell wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, that is a 'trim' cap and should be less than 10 pF or so.  It's not 
>>> likely to have much effect on the stability of the oscillator.  More likely 
>>> are the caps on the 'other' side of the board, shown further down, the two 
>>> brown tubular caps to the left of the Diode D13 are 45 pF each.  That's 
>>> probably a 'C-Line' Version 7 PTO.  Probably a result of either a better 
>>> buy on two 45 pF caps over a single 90 pF, or a mechanical rearrangement of 
>>> the board layout.  Those tw

Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

Had the same thing happen, but with Diet Pepsi :)

'ES

-Original Message-
>From: Chris Kepus 
>Sent: Sep 23, 2011 11:25 AM
>To: k4...@mindspring.com, 'Steve Wedge' 
>Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net
>Subject: RE: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?
>
>ROTHFLMAO!!! Made my day reading your softly worded post, Garey! Had to
>clean up some coffee that squirted out, though.   RTFCD and derivatives;
>i.e., RTFIM, RTFD, etc.,  are most fun play words. :-
>
>73,
>Chris
>W7JPG
>
>
>"As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)
>
>73, Garey - K4OAH
>Glen Allen, VA"
>
>
>


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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

OMG - didn't realize that was there since it is "sealed shut".

I guess I know what my project's gonna be for this wet weekend ;-)

In my defense - I'm sitting here at work without my CD (and posted the query 
from work) and I put everything down last night at around 10.30.

It's also looking like I'm going to have to dig into this thing now, so I may 
start undoing some of the mods.  The way the PO played with the variable AGC 
delay, for instance, has completely messed up the functioning of the RF GAIN 
control.

Oh, well - we need things to keep us busy.  Guess I need to keep the CD in my 
briefcase :)

Thanks again - 

Steve, W1ES/4

-Original Message-
>From: Garey Barrell 
>Sent: Sep 23, 2011 9:52 AM
>To: Steve Wedge 
>Cc: "drakelist@zerobeat.net" 
>Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?
>
>Steve -
>
>Um, if you would bother to look at your B-Line CD, in the MISC directory, 
>there is a file called 'PB 
>Tuner Mechanical'.  Hidden in there is a procedure for opening, cleaning and 
>closing the PB Tuner!!
>
>The problem is the same as the PTO, the original grease has hardened and is 
>not allowing the slug 
>carriage to move smoothly.
>
>As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)
>
>73, Garey - K4OAH
>Glen Allen, VA
>
>Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
>and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
>
>
>
>Steve Wedge wrote:
>> I was realigning my "hot-rodded" R-4B last night (the PO had moved some 
>> things around for some reason - probably to change where the beat note would 
>> peak) and got to the adjustment of the four-slug PBT rack or coil carriage 
>> (whatever it is).
>>
>> Moving the PBT in 4.8 from 9 to 3 o'clock had different sounds (indicating 
>> it needed to be re-centred), so I started turning the central screw.  I got 
>> to a point where the PBT wouldn't tune ANYTHING, so started returning it to 
>> closer to where it was.  Still no change.  It seemed the carriage wasn't 
>> moving in and out anymore.  I don't know what happened, but turning that 
>> central screw in more finally allowed me to use the PBT again, but now it 
>> was off.  I re-peaked the four coils again and it seems to be working, but I 
>> do notice that USB sounds bassier than LSB, so this thing's still not right.
>>
>> It appears that the central screw applies tension to the whole carriage and 
>> moves the entire assembly in or out in unison.
>>
>> What can break in there, and has anyone taken the shields off one of these 
>> puppies to work on the innards?  The process will involve breaking solder 
>> joints, so I don't want to take apart anything that will fly apart like the 
>> recoil mechanism of a chainsaw (DAMHIKT...).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Chris Kepus]

ROTHFLMAO!!! Made my day reading your softly worded post, Garey! Had to
clean up some coffee that squirted out, though.   RTFCD and derivatives;
i.e., RTFIM, RTFD, etc.,  are most fun play words. :-

73,
Chris
W7JPG


"As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA"




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Re: [Drakelist] C-4 Clock

[Steve Wedge]

FWIW, I just saw one of those clock mechanisms for sale on eBay last night.  I 
think the opening bid was at about 45 bucks.

Steve, W1ES/4

>
>Message: 6
>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:34:04 -0500
>From: Kihwal Lee 
>To: Hunter Ellington 
>Cc: "Drakelist@zerobeat.net" 
>Subject: Re: [Drakelist] C4 Console
>Message-ID: 
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Search for numerchron tymeter. Suitable replacements occasionally come up on 
>ebay. You may have to buy a desk clock and get the part out. 
>
>Kihwal, K9SUL
>
>
>
>On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Hunter Ellington  wrote:
>
>> As long as we are on the C4, is there a source for a replacement digital 
>> clock?  Mine is getting a tad noisy, and the second wheel decal with the 
>> numbers is coming apart.  Otherwise the unit is perfect.  
>> 
>>  
>> K0GFY R. Hunter Ellington
>> 303-454-0543/720-560-8139
>> P.O. Box 44
>> Larkspur, CO 80118
>> From: Woody 
>> To: Drakelist@zerobeat.net
>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 7:40 PM
>> Subject: [Drakelist] C4 Console
>> 
>> Well since its quite I might as well start something. I have a C4 that I've 
>> had for 20 or so years, gave $50 for it back then, with all the hook ups. 
>> I've used all of it but mainly the rotor control and power strip, all the 
>> Drakes I have run through it. The rotor control has quit working, where 
>> would be the best place to start looking, I've changed it out to another 
>> controller and it works fine so it has to be in the console, any one have 
>> any idea's?
>> Thanks
>> Woody
>>   
>> If you forward this e-mail, please delete the forwarding history, which 
>> includes my email address.   It is a courtesy to me and to others who do not 
>> wish to have their e-mail addresses sent all over the world.  
>>  
>> If you are including me in a multi-address email, please use the Bcc 
>> feature. In your email address which will be under the TO: block. It still 
>> sends emails the same but everyone does not see the other address only 
>> theirs. 
>> Thanks
>> "Woody"
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
>
>--
>
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>
>End of Drakelist Digest, Vol 39, Issue 39
>*


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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Robert Fish]

'RTFCD!!'

This actually made me laugh before I had my coffee this morning, very 
unusual indeed. Definitely words to live by.


Bob  K6GGO



Steve -

Um, if you would bother to look at your B-Line CD, in the MISC 
directory, there is a file called 'PB Tuner Mechanical'.  Hidden in 
there is a procedure for opening, cleaning and closing the PB Tuner!!


The problem is the same as the PTO, the original grease has hardened 
and is not allowing the slug carriage to move smoothly.


As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA





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Re: [Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Garey Barrell]

Steve -

Um, if you would bother to look at your B-Line CD, in the MISC directory, there is a file called 'PB 
Tuner Mechanical'.  Hidden in there is a procedure for opening, cleaning and closing the PB Tuner!!


The problem is the same as the PTO, the original grease has hardened and is not allowing the slug 
carriage to move smoothly.


As some have said,  'RTFCD!!'   :-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Steve Wedge wrote:

I was realigning my "hot-rodded" R-4B last night (the PO had moved some things 
around for some reason - probably to change where the beat note would peak) and got to 
the adjustment of the four-slug PBT rack or coil carriage (whatever it is).

Moving the PBT in 4.8 from 9 to 3 o'clock had different sounds (indicating it 
needed to be re-centred), so I started turning the central screw.  I got to a 
point where the PBT wouldn't tune ANYTHING, so started returning it to closer 
to where it was.  Still no change.  It seemed the carriage wasn't moving in and 
out anymore.  I don't know what happened, but turning that central screw in 
more finally allowed me to use the PBT again, but now it was off.  I re-peaked 
the four coils again and it seems to be working, but I do notice that USB 
sounds bassier than LSB, so this thing's still not right.

It appears that the central screw applies tension to the whole carriage and 
moves the entire assembly in or out in unison.

What can break in there, and has anyone taken the shields off one of these 
puppies to work on the innards?  The process will involve breaking solder 
joints, so I don't want to take apart anything that will fly apart like the 
recoil mechanism of a chainsaw (DAMHIKT...).

73,

Steve.

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Re: [Drakelist] Here We Go Again...!!!

[Garey Barrell]

Eddy -

I 'think' you're barking up the wrong tree unless you have already replaced the two 45 pF cap.   If 
the frequency of the PTO shifts several kHz or tens of kHz, that small, (probably less than 10% of 
the total resonating capacitance,) isn't likely to correct it.


By the way, many small ceramic trimmers are temperature compensated, usually coded by color.  Many 
ceramic compression trimmers you see are N750, so be careful what you use.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Eddy Swynar wrote:

Hi Guys,

Well, to-day I plan to "snip" that white tubular capacitor out of my PTO,&  see 
what might happen...

I'll note the frequency on my receiver AND the PTO before doing this, as the frequency from 
the PTO climbs some 100-KHz in the absence of its "can": I'll then, probably, 
temporarily install a small air trimmer in place of the tubular cap,&  play with the 
settings until the frequency might return to where it originally was, in the interest of 
linearity.

I can then sub the trimmer with a fixed s.m. capacitor, perhaps in parallel 
with a small ceramic trimmer.

Stay tuned---and wish me luck!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ


*



On 2011-09-22, at 3:36 PM, Garey Barrell wrote:


Yes, that is a 'trim' cap and should be less than 10 pF or so.  It's not likely 
to have much effect on the stability of the oscillator.  More likely are the 
caps on the 'other' side of the board, shown further down, the two brown 
tubular caps to the left of the Diode D13 are 45 pF each.  That's probably a 
'C-Line' Version 7 PTO.  Probably a result of either a better buy on two 45 pF 
caps over a single 90 pF, or a mechanical rearrangement of the board layout.  
Those two caps are the most critical as far as stability of the oscillator is 
concerned.

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Eddy Swynar wrote:

Hi Guys,

For a look-see at the suspect tubular capacitor that I am referring to in my 
T-4X PTO, go to this website:

http://www.wb4hfn.com/DRAKE/DrakeArticles/TechTips/PTO-Repair.htm

Scroll down half the page to where you see the heading "ELECTRICAL FAILURES": the 
photograph with the arrowed inscription marked "solder point" is immediately left of the 
white tubular capacitor that I am referring to...

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ




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[Drakelist] Anyone ever look inside the PBT box?

[Steve Wedge]

I was realigning my "hot-rodded" R-4B last night (the PO had moved some things 
around for some reason - probably to change where the beat note would peak) and 
got to the adjustment of the four-slug PBT rack or coil carriage (whatever it 
is).

Moving the PBT in 4.8 from 9 to 3 o'clock had different sounds (indicating it 
needed to be re-centred), so I started turning the central screw.  I got to a 
point where the PBT wouldn't tune ANYTHING, so started returning it to closer 
to where it was.  Still no change.  It seemed the carriage wasn't moving in and 
out anymore.  I don't know what happened, but turning that central screw in 
more finally allowed me to use the PBT again, but now it was off.  I re-peaked 
the four coils again and it seems to be working, but I do notice that USB 
sounds bassier than LSB, so this thing's still not right.

It appears that the central screw applies tension to the whole carriage and 
moves the entire assembly in or out in unison.

What can break in there, and has anyone taken the shields off one of these 
puppies to work on the innards?  The process will involve breaking solder 
joints, so I don't want to take apart anything that will fly apart like the 
recoil mechanism of a chainsaw (DAMHIKT...).

73,

Steve.

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Re: [Drakelist] R-4B V8: 6HS6 vs 6AU6

[Steve Wedge]

Thanks again, Garey - yeah I begin to wonder when a counter isn't at least 
toggling the last digit :)  Great news, as I can finally get the R-4A back 
together so it will be off the floor of the shack.

I was sort of drawing the same conclusion that in mixer service there wouldn't 
be a lot of difference.  In fact, I put a used 6HS6 in there anyway, figuring 
that performance could be degraded, and upon re-touching the trimmers last 
night, there wasn't much change needed to peak the signals.

I did find another issue, but I'll save it for a separate post so folks can 
find it in the archives easier.

73,

Steve, W1ES/4 in rainy NC.

-Original Message-
>From: Garey Barrell 
>Sent: Sep 22, 2011 2:42 PM
>To: Steve Wedge 
>Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net
>Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R-4B V8: 6HS6 vs 6AU6
>
>Steve -
>
>Your PTO is on the way back.  I finally got the time to pack and ship it.  
>It's been sitting on the 
>bench, running for the last week or so with the counter on it.  It stays 
>within +/- 100 Hz from day 
>to day, just sitting in the open.  I turned the counter so I could see it from 
>my desk and would 
>just look up at it to check from time to time.  When the AC kicks on, it moves 
>a little more, but 
>that's not going to happen mounted inside the receiver!  We had a couple of 
>cool days when the AC 
>didn't kick on all day, and the frequency just sat there.
>
>I checked it several times yesterday, and about the third time I looked up it 
>dawned on me that it 
>hadn't moved a single Hz!!   Hmm.   Not likely.  So I looked and the GATE 
>light on the counter 
>wasn't flashing  So I hit the reset and it went to 0?!?!?   I touched 
>the scope probe to it 
>and still full amplitude.  So I switched the counter from low range to high 
>range and back on the 
>counter and it started counting again..
>
>The 6AU6 is an ok sub in the PreMixer, but is only about 1/2 the Gm of the 
>6HS6.  I think there is 
>plenty of gain, so probably no big deal, but possibly less LO output, 
>degrading performance.   The 
>6AH6 is a much better choice for a reasonably priced sub, with even higher Gm.
>
>It's not a problem in the R-4A, but the 'HS and 'AH are 0.45A filament, vs 
>0.3A for the 'AU may be a 
>problem in a series arrangement.
>
>73, Garey - K4OAH
>Glen Allen, VA
>
>Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
>and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
>
>
>
>Steve Wedge wrote:
>> I know the 6HS6 and 6AU6 have the same base and are actually listed as 
>> substitutes for each 
>> other.  I also know the 6HS6 has higher Gm.
>> I noticed, when putting this R-4B back together, that the PO put a 6AU6 in 
>> V8.  The receiver seems 
>> to work fine, so how critical is it using a 6AU6 in V8 (the premixer)?


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Re: [Drakelist] Here We Go Again...!!!

[Eddy Swynar]

Hi Guys,

Well, to-day I plan to "snip" that white tubular capacitor out of my PTO, & see 
what might happen...

I'll note the frequency on my receiver AND the PTO before doing this, as the 
frequency from the PTO climbs some 100-KHz in the absence of its "can": I'll 
then, probably, temporarily install a small air trimmer in place of the tubular 
cap, & play with the settings until the frequency might return to where it 
originally was, in the interest of linearity. 

I can then sub the trimmer with a fixed s.m. capacitor, perhaps in parallel 
with a small ceramic trimmer.

Stay tuned---and wish me luck!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ


*



On 2011-09-22, at 3:36 PM, Garey Barrell wrote:

> Yes, that is a 'trim' cap and should be less than 10 pF or so.  It's not 
> likely to have much effect on the stability of the oscillator.  More likely 
> are the caps on the 'other' side of the board, shown further down, the two 
> brown tubular caps to the left of the Diode D13 are 45 pF each.  That's 
> probably a 'C-Line' Version 7 PTO.  Probably a result of either a better buy 
> on two 45 pF caps over a single 90 pF, or a mechanical rearrangement of the 
> board layout.  Those two caps are the most critical as far as stability of 
> the oscillator is concerned.
> 
> 73, Garey - K4OAH
> Glen Allen, VA
> 
> Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
> and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
> 
> 
> 
> Eddy Swynar wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> For a look-see at the suspect tubular capacitor that I am referring to in my 
>> T-4X PTO, go to this website:
>> 
>> http://www.wb4hfn.com/DRAKE/DrakeArticles/TechTips/PTO-Repair.htm
>> 
>> Scroll down half the page to where you see the heading "ELECTRICAL 
>> FAILURES": the photograph with the arrowed inscription marked "solder point" 
>> is immediately left of the white tubular capacitor that I am referring to...
>> 
>> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ


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