Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Adam Jackson
On Tuesday 18 May 2004 22:34, Jon Smirl wrote:
 DRI is definitely working in this build, glxgears is 152FPS on a Rage128.
 But when I do glxinfo it reports the software driver:
 OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect

How fast is the CPU?  I've seen 200FPS in glxgears in software with a 2GHz P4.

 Or did someone fix the software render? I used to get about 3FPS with it.

 Maybe something is broken in the DRI into xorg server integration?

From your second post it looks like the same issue as 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-usersm=108328244131329w=2 .  Run ldd on 
glxgears and see where it's getting libGL from.

I'm pulling down the SRPM now, I'll take a look in the morning.  Hopefully the 
patch will jump out at me.  If this is Jakub's patch causing problems I'd 
like to come up with a solution that preserves binary compatibility, since 
I'd like to see that patch (or something like it) integrated.

- ajax


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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Holger Waechtler
Jon Smirl wrote:
--- Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Maw, 2004-05-18 at 21:14, Jon Smirl wrote:
So you don't have any problem with pulling VT support out of the kernel?
You need the code to handle video context switches. You also need vt's
because you have multiple security contexts on the PC console and good
reason to keep that when using SELinux.
VT switch is easy however. DRI+X already handles that, and we never have
two people using the VT at once. Its one device, multiple handles only
one currently active - like many other drivers

Why does VT switch have to be in the kernel? I can have multiple xterms logged
in as different users without kernel support. Why can't VT switching be
implemented as if I was switching between multiple fullscreen xterms? I guess I
don't see why there is a difference between multiple xterms and VT's. I can use
su to set the xterm to any account.
what if you want to create a 'freshclean' console using the SAK key or 
if your primary terminal is not responsive anymore?

You need to be able to create a new terminal without any help of the 
currently active console and you need to be able to restart the graphics 
helper library/server/whatever at any time without killing your running 
applications on other 'VTs'.

Holger
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Re: savage texture compression - good news

2004-05-19 Thread Roland Scheidegger
Mark Cass wrote:
guys,
 
finally have some good news. uploading DXT1, DXT3, and DXT5 compressed 
textures is working. i still need to implement compressed sub textures 
and test very small textures.
 
the issue was the tile size. i wrote an iterator into the driver to test 
all possible tile sizes and found the one that worked. well, actually 
two that worked. DXT1 has a different tile format than DXT3 and DXT5 
which share the same format.
Nice to hear it works.
my next question involves extensions. should the 
GL_ARB_texture_compression and GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc 
extensions be enabled? the only reason i ask is that i think the 
complete description of the extension includes the ability for the 
driver to compress the textures. as was mentioned previously, adding 
this ability to the driver could result in legal problems as s3tc is 
intellectual property of S3/VIA inc.
Ian has already answered the part about GL_ARB_texture_compression.
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc is a problem. You're not supposed to 
enable it if you can't guarantee that you can always handle the 
associated s3tc texture formats - and you can't guarantee that without 
software compression/decompression. But if you're not announcing it, 
nobody will use the dxt formats (even for precompressed textures) you 
just made to work (nwn and others will check if the extension is 
present). You could do what I did, don't enable the extension if 
software decompression/compression is unavailable per default, but make 
it possible to enable it via driconf. btw it's kinda ironic the 
extension can't be fully implemented - after all, we're talking about a 
Savage chip here!

Just the other day, I had some strange idea how to write a s3tc 
compressor which would be legally unproblematic. I _think_ the format 
itself cannot be patented, only the compression apparatus (which is, 
btw, just math, but that's not the point here).
So, use straight BTC[1] (block truncation coding)/CCC[2] (color cell 
compression) (there are plenty of references to these papers on the web) 
to compress! This works because s3tc is an improved btc/ccc, your 
textures would be correctly decompressionable by any s3tc decompressor.
RGB_DXT1: use CCC. Instead of two base colors and two (or one, depending 
on the ordering of the colors) derived colors, only use the two base 
colors. That's all. Of course, quality would be much lower, only 1 bit 
of the 2 bit index is used.
RGB_DXT3: same as RGB_DXT1 for the color part. Alpha part is no problem 
(just uncompressed 4bit alpha anyway).
RGB_DXT5. same as RGB_DXT1 for the color part. For alpha, use BTC 
(instead of 2 base values and 6 derived (or 4 derived and two fixed 
values, depending on the ordering of the two base values) only use the 
two base values. Not good quality (only 1 bit of the 3 bit index is used).
RGBA_DXT1: problematic (not straight CCC). Probably non-infringing 
implementation would just use only one color, the second color would be 
used for the transparent case. So all pixels (safe the transparent ones) 
would end up with the same color within a block...

Software decompresion though is a problem, if that's also covered by the 
patent. Using CCC/BTC would lead to errors, which could be very 
significant (unless you have compressed according to the above mentioned 
scheme, of course). In fact, in some cases the results could be 
completely wrong (for RGBA_DXT1, and RGBA_DXT5 at least, due to the 
different interpretation needed based on the ordering of the base 
values, which BTC/CCC decompressor would simply ignore).

Roland
[1] Image Compression Using Block Truncation Coding, Delp/Mitchell, IEEE 
Transactions on Communications 27: (9), 1979, pages 1335-1342
[2] Two Bit/Pixel Full Color Encoding, Campbell et al., SIGGRAPH 86 
Conference Proceedings, Computer Graphics, Vol. 20, No. 4, August 1986, 
pages 215-223

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Re: savage texture compression - good news

2004-05-19 Thread Alex Deucher
FYI, relevant patents numbers are:
5,956,431
6,658,146

See more info here:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-develm=107704096508208w=2

--- Roland Scheidegger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Mark Cass wrote:
  
  guys,
   
  finally have some good news. uploading DXT1, DXT3, and DXT5
 compressed 
  textures is working. i still need to implement compressed sub
 textures 
  and test very small textures.
   
  the issue was the tile size. i wrote an iterator into the driver to
 test 
  all possible tile sizes and found the one that worked. well,
 actually 
  two that worked. DXT1 has a different tile format than DXT3 and
 DXT5 
  which share the same format.
 Nice to hear it works.
 
  my next question involves extensions. should the 
  GL_ARB_texture_compression and GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc 
  extensions be enabled? the only reason i ask is that i think the 
  complete description of the extension includes the ability for the 
  driver to compress the textures. as was mentioned previously,
 adding 
  this ability to the driver could result in legal problems as s3tc
 is 
  intellectual property of S3/VIA inc.
 Ian has already answered the part about GL_ARB_texture_compression.
 GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc is a problem. You're not supposed to 
 enable it if you can't guarantee that you can always handle the 
 associated s3tc texture formats - and you can't guarantee that
 without 
 software compression/decompression. But if you're not announcing it, 
 nobody will use the dxt formats (even for precompressed textures) you
 
 just made to work (nwn and others will check if the extension is 
 present). You could do what I did, don't enable the extension if 
 software decompression/compression is unavailable per default, but
 make 
 it possible to enable it via driconf. btw it's kinda ironic the 
 extension can't be fully implemented - after all, we're talking about
 a 
 Savage chip here!
 
 Just the other day, I had some strange idea how to write a s3tc 
 compressor which would be legally unproblematic. I _think_ the format
 
 itself cannot be patented, only the compression apparatus (which is, 
 btw, just math, but that's not the point here).
 So, use straight BTC[1] (block truncation coding)/CCC[2] (color cell 
 compression) (there are plenty of references to these papers on the
 web) 
 to compress! This works because s3tc is an improved btc/ccc, your 
 textures would be correctly decompressionable by any s3tc
 decompressor.
 RGB_DXT1: use CCC. Instead of two base colors and two (or one,
 depending 
 on the ordering of the colors) derived colors, only use the two base 
 colors. That's all. Of course, quality would be much lower, only 1
 bit 
 of the 2 bit index is used.
 RGB_DXT3: same as RGB_DXT1 for the color part. Alpha part is no
 problem 
 (just uncompressed 4bit alpha anyway).
 RGB_DXT5. same as RGB_DXT1 for the color part. For alpha, use BTC 
 (instead of 2 base values and 6 derived (or 4 derived and two fixed 
 values, depending on the ordering of the two base values) only use
 the 
 two base values. Not good quality (only 1 bit of the 3 bit index is
 used).
 RGBA_DXT1: problematic (not straight CCC). Probably non-infringing 
 implementation would just use only one color, the second color would
 be 
 used for the transparent case. So all pixels (safe the transparent
 ones) 
 would end up with the same color within a block...
 
 Software decompresion though is a problem, if that's also covered by
 the 
 patent. Using CCC/BTC would lead to errors, which could be very 
 significant (unless you have compressed according to the above
 mentioned 
 scheme, of course). In fact, in some cases the results could be 
 completely wrong (for RGBA_DXT1, and RGBA_DXT5 at least, due to the 
 different interpretation needed based on the ordering of the base 
 values, which BTC/CCC decompressor would simply ignore).
 
 Roland
 
 [1] Image Compression Using Block Truncation Coding, Delp/Mitchell,
 IEEE 
 Transactions on Communications 27: (9), 1979, pages 1335-1342
 [2] Two Bit/Pixel Full Color Encoding, Campbell et al., SIGGRAPH ‘86 
 Conference Proceedings, Computer Graphics, Vol. 20, No. 4, August
 1986, 
 pages 215-223
 




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Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Adam Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From your second post it looks like the same issue as 
 http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-usersm=108328244131329w=2 .  Run ldd on 
 glxgears and see where it's getting libGL from.
 
 I'm pulling down the SRPM now, I'll take a look in the morning.  Hopefully the
 
 patch will jump out at me.  If this is Jakub's patch causing problems I'd 
 like to come up with a solution that preserves binary compatibility, since 
 I'd like to see that patch (or something like it) integrated.
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ which glxgears
/usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
linux-gate.so.1 =  (0xe000)
libGL.so.1 = /usr/X11R6/lib/tls/libGL.so.1 (0x465c8000)
libXext.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x40001000)
libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4000f000)
libpthread.so.0 = /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0x459d8000)
libm.so.6 = /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x458c)
libc.so.6 = /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x457a3000)
libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x458e5000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4578a000)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ export LIBGL_DEBUG=1
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ glxgears
libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
(/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_Dispatch)
libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
(/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_Dispatch)
libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
771 frames in 5.0 seconds = 154.200 FPS
XIO:  fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :0.0
  after 3258 requests (33 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ls /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg*
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-100dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-75dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-base-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-doc-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-font-utils-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-data-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-tools-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-truetype-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-twm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xauth-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xdm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xfs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xnest-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xvfb-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$




=
Jon Smirl
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Holger Waechtler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Why does VT switch have to be in the kernel? I can have multiple xterms
 logged
  in as different users without kernel support. Why can't VT switching be
  implemented as if I was switching between multiple fullscreen xterms? I
 guess I
  don't see why there is a difference between multiple xterms and VT's. I can
 use
  su to set the xterm to any account.
 
 what if you want to create a 'freshclean' console using the SAK key or 
 if your primary terminal is not responsive anymore?
 
 You need to be able to create a new terminal without any help of the 
 currently active console and you need to be able to restart the graphics 
 helper library/server/whatever at any time without killing your running 
 applications on other 'VTs'.
 

In this model SAK is implemented in the kernel by the system console. Hitting
SAK will always work even if the terminal is not responsive (unless the kernel
is dead). SAK will whack all apps on the user console, reload the graphics libs,
and get you a fresh shell. In this model it is not possible to restart the
graphics lib on one console without restarting all of the virtual consoles since
they are all sharing the same process.

This seems secure to me. Whacking everything with SAK and reloading the graphics
libraries completely stops any attack that may try to load code into the
graphics card. I wouldn't be surprised if you could write a pixel shader program
that emulates a login screen.

It may be possible to build this to suspend the apps instead of whacking them.
Then you could reattached them if needed. If not reattached in a few minutes
they would die.

=
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
Getting rid of the copy in /usr/X11R6/lib/tls doesn't make a difference.

--- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- Adam Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  From your second post it looks like the same issue as 
  http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-usersm=108328244131329w=2 .  Run ldd
 on 
  glxgears and see where it's getting libGL from.
  
  I'm pulling down the SRPM now, I'll take a look in the morning.  Hopefully
 the
  
  patch will jump out at me.  If this is Jakub's patch causing problems I'd 
  like to come up with a solution that preserves binary compatibility, since 
  I'd like to see that patch (or something like it) integrated.
  
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ which glxgears
 /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
 linux-gate.so.1 =  (0xe000)
 libGL.so.1 = /usr/X11R6/lib/tls/libGL.so.1 (0x465c8000)
 libXext.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x40001000)
 libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4000f000)
 libpthread.so.0 = /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0x459d8000)
 libm.so.6 = /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x458c)
 libc.so.6 = /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x457a3000)
 libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x458e5000)
 /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4578a000)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ export LIBGL_DEBUG=1
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ glxgears
 libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
 (/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_Dispatch)
 libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
 libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
 (/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_Dispatch)
 libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
 771 frames in 5.0 seconds = 154.200 FPS
 XIO:  fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :0.0
   after 3258 requests (33 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ls /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg*
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-100dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-75dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-base-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-doc-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-font-utils-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-data-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-tools-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-truetype-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-twm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xauth-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xdm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xfs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xnest-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xvfb-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$
 
 
 
 
 =
 Jon Smirl
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
   
   
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Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Alex Deucher

--- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- Adam Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  From your second post it looks like the same issue as 
  http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-usersm=108328244131329w=2 . 
 Run ldd on 
  glxgears and see where it's getting libGL from.
  
  I'm pulling down the SRPM now, I'll take a look in the morning. 
 Hopefully the
  
  patch will jump out at me.  If this is Jakub's patch causing
 problems I'd 
  like to come up with a solution that preserves binary
 compatibility, since 
  I'd like to see that patch (or something like it) integrated.
  
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ which glxgears
 /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
 linux-gate.so.1 =  (0xe000)
 libGL.so.1 = /usr/X11R6/lib/tls/libGL.so.1 (0x465c8000)

it's using the tls version of libGL.  I've never had much luck with the
tls versions. If you built your own libGL or 3d driver, switch to those
versions.  mixing tls and non-tls never seems to work.

Alex

 libXext.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x40001000)
 libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4000f000)
 libpthread.so.0 = /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0x459d8000)
 libm.so.6 = /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x458c)
 libc.so.6 = /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x457a3000)
 libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x458e5000)
 /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4578a000)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ export LIBGL_DEBUG=1
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ glxgears
 libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
 (/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol:
 _glapi_Dispatch)
 libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
 libGL error: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so failed
 (/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/r128_dri.so: undefined symbol:
 _glapi_Dispatch)
 libGL error: unable to find driver: r128_dri.so
 771 frames in 5.0 seconds = 154.200 FPS
 XIO:  fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server
 :0.0
   after 3258 requests (33 known processed) with 0 events
 remaining.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ls
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg*

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-100dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-75dpi-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-base-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-doc-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-font-utils-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-libs-data-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-tools-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

/var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-truetype-fonts-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-twm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xauth-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xdm-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-xfs-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xnest-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 /var/cache/yum/development/packages/xorg-x11-Xvfb-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$
 
 
 
 
 =
 Jon Smirl
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 





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Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Alex Deucher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 --- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- Adam Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   From your second post it looks like the same issue as 
   http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-usersm=108328244131329w=2 . 
  Run ldd on 
   glxgears and see where it's getting libGL from.
   
   I'm pulling down the SRPM now, I'll take a look in the morning. 
  Hopefully the
   
   patch will jump out at me.  If this is Jakub's patch causing
  problems I'd 
   like to come up with a solution that preserves binary
  compatibility, since 
   I'd like to see that patch (or something like it) integrated.
   
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ which glxgears
  /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] jonsmirl]$ ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears
  linux-gate.so.1 =  (0xe000)
  libGL.so.1 = /usr/X11R6/lib/tls/libGL.so.1 (0x465c8000)
 
 it's using the tls version of libGL.  I've never had much luck with the
 tls versions. If you built your own libGL or 3d driver, switch to those
 versions.  mixing tls and non-tls never seems to work.

Everything is intended to be stock from the redhat RPMs.  I don't think I am
mixing in anything I built.

=
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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Holger Waechtler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 hmmm, it's not clear to me how this concept would allow real multiple 
 user logins at the same time like it is common -- you can rum multiple 
 X11 instances on multiple VTs and every new user is able to hit SAK 
 without killing other user's applications.

Each user's device driver knows how to put up the SAK login screen on it's head.
 The SAK is only going to kill thing assoicated with that head. This works
because each card's driver is required to support the system console at the
kernel level.

SAK will always be available from any head. We will need a kernel option to
control whether the rest of the system console (pintk, kdbg, etc) is available
from any head or just the boot device.

Ctrl-Alt-Del has to be the SAK key. It will reset the graphics and start a new
login process.
SysReq will get you the system console. System console will show printk, kdbg,
OOPs, etc.
Both of these keys will be active even if X is running. You can toggle between
system console and user console.  But system console is not a shell, no one is
logged in on it. It can only be used to run dedicated things like kdbg.

 
 Holger


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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Ian Romanick
Jon Smirl wrote:
--- Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
s/OpenGL/Some drawing library/ - providing its using the kernel
interfaces we don't care what. (eg the bogl console driver is very
small, the opengl one would probably be rather larger and nicer)
I wasn't thinking that the kernel interface was standardized. For example DRM
has some common IOCTLs and then hundreds of per chipset ones. There is no
standard bitblt or draw char IOCTL.
IMO, this is a long standing problem with the DRM.  The main issue is 
that there's only one version number associated with each DRM module. 
What's needed is a device independent version and a device dependent 
version.  In a sense, it needs something like an extension mechanism. 
Right now, some drivers support a vblank wait ioctl and some don't.  The 
ones that do support it, support it the same way.

If we could extend the DRM API in a device independent manner, we could 
solve some of this.  When I thought about this in the past, I came up 
with two ways to do it.

1. Add a device independent version.  Device independent code could be 
written that would test the version number the same way device dependent 
code does today.  The drawback is that in order to advertise version X.N 
functionality, you also have to adverteise version [1.1, 1.N-1] 
functionality.  Some hardware / drivers may not want to / be able to do 
that.

2. Add an extension query ioctl.  Give each piece of functionality 
(i.e., all the related vblank functions) a unique number.  Drivers would 
make a query like, Is extension 5 supported?  If that ioctl returns 
true, then the driver could use that functionality.  The disadvantage of 
this method is that it increases the number of ioctl calls that need to 
be made.  Since the set of supported extensions can be tracked in the 
DRM with a bit string, the additional code size should be trivial.

Thoughts?

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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Ian Romanick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 IMO, this is a long standing problem with the DRM.  The main issue is 
 that there's only one version number associated with each DRM module. 
 What's needed is a device independent version and a device dependent 
 version.  In a sense, it needs something like an extension mechanism. 
 Right now, some drivers support a vblank wait ioctl and some don't.  The 
 ones that do support it, support it the same way.

The are two OpenGL implementations to consider, the DRI/mesa one and other
vendor's. My thought was that DRM is an internal interface for Mesa's use. This
means that ATI/Nvidia's stacks don't have to provide a DRM interface if they
don't want to. DRM would not be a published API for general use. The only
standard way to access the video hardware will be via an OpenGL library and only
one library at a time can be used on single piece of hardware.

If you accept that DRM is not a published API for general use, then we can do
anything with want with the DRM interface. I'm all for anything that will make
the code simpler to write. Nobody but a Mesa developer is ever going to use the 
interface.

=
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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Alan Cox
On Mer, 2004-05-19 at 01:35, Jon Smirl wrote:
 Why does VT switch have to be in the kernel? I can have multiple xterms logged
 in as different users without kernel support. Why can't VT switching be
 implemented as if I was switching between multiple fullscreen xterms? I guess I
 don't see why there is a difference between multiple xterms and VT's. I can use
 su to set the xterm to any account.

You trust the X server. Thats already problematic with SELinux and
compartmentalisation. For some things you need multiple X-servers for
this reason.

 User space console makes it easier to go multi-user. Stick four cards in, run a
 user space console on each of them, and you have a four user system. No need for
 kernel support.

Assuming you fix the input layer yes. I too would advocate that part
being user space. We don't need multiple framebuffer let alone multiple
keyboard/mouse mapping stuff in the kernel one, just what we have now
or thereabouts



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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Alan Cox
On Maw, 2004-05-18 at 23:27, Keith Packard wrote:
 No thoughts to supporting multiple sets of VTs, one per physical device 
 then?

That would be nice but how much of that needs to be kernel side. Not a
lot I suspect.



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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mer, 2004-05-19 at 01:35, Jon Smirl wrote:
  Why does VT switch have to be in the kernel? I can have multiple xterms
 logged
  in as different users without kernel support. Why can't VT switching be
  implemented as if I was switching between multiple fullscreen xterms? I
 guess I
  don't see why there is a difference between multiple xterms and VT's. I can
 use
  su to set the xterm to any account.
 
 You trust the X server. Thats already problematic with SELinux and
 compartmentalisation. For some things you need multiple X-servers for
 this reason.

If we are going to build a new user space console, let's work with the SELinux
people from the beginning to make it trustworthy. User space console could look
just like the current VT system and run each session full screen. That stops the
scraping the screen attack. 

xserver draws each app into it's own pbuffer. The individual apps don't have
access to the main framebuffer. A properly designed xserver should be free from
the screen scraping attack too. The DRM module will have to make sure you can't
read buffers that don't belong to you.

I don't want to go the model of running multiple X servers on the same hardware
again. That path causes all of the problems with multitasking the device drivers
on to the same piece of hardware.

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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Alan Cox
On Mer, 2004-05-19 at 20:30, Jon Smirl wrote:
 xserver draws each app into it's own pbuffer. The individual apps don't have
 access to the main framebuffer. A properly designed xserver should be free from
 the screen scraping attack too. The DRM module will have to make sure you can't
 read buffers that don't belong to you.

X isnt trustable. You can't prove the needed trust.



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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
A rep from the SELinux group was at the Xdev conference. They are starting a
project to verify X server.

--- Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mer, 2004-05-19 at 20:30, Jon Smirl wrote:
  xserver draws each app into it's own pbuffer. The individual apps don't have
  access to the main framebuffer. A properly designed xserver should be free
 from
  the screen scraping attack too. The DRM module will have to make sure you
 can't
  read buffers that don't belong to you.
 
 X isnt trustable. You can't prove the needed trust.
 
 
 
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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Eric Anholt
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 11:25, Ian Romanick wrote:
 Jon Smirl wrote:
  --- Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 s/OpenGL/Some drawing library/ - providing its using the kernel
 interfaces we don't care what. (eg the bogl console driver is very
 small, the opengl one would probably be rather larger and nicer)
  
  I wasn't thinking that the kernel interface was standardized. For example DRM
  has some common IOCTLs and then hundreds of per chipset ones. There is no
  standard bitblt or draw char IOCTL.
 
 IMO, this is a long standing problem with the DRM.  The main issue is 
 that there's only one version number associated with each DRM module. 
 What's needed is a device independent version and a device dependent 
 version.  In a sense, it needs something like an extension mechanism. 
 Right now, some drivers support a vblank wait ioctl and some don't.  The 
 ones that do support it, support it the same way.
 
 If we could extend the DRM API in a device independent manner, we could 
 solve some of this.  When I thought about this in the past, I came up 
 with two ways to do it.
 
 1. Add a device independent version.  Device independent code could be 
 written that would test the version number the same way device dependent 
 code does today.  The drawback is that in order to advertise version X.N 
 functionality, you also have to adverteise version [1.1, 1.N-1] 
 functionality.  Some hardware / drivers may not want to / be able to do 
 that.
 
 2. Add an extension query ioctl.  Give each piece of functionality 
 (i.e., all the related vblank functions) a unique number.  Drivers would 
 make a query like, Is extension 5 supported?  If that ioctl returns 
 true, then the driver could use that functionality.  The disadvantage of 
 this method is that it increases the number of ioctl calls that need to 
 be made.  Since the set of supported extensions can be tracked in the 
 DRM with a bit string, the additional code size should be trivial.
 
 Thoughts?

We already have a device independent version.  What I put in was that
the X Server can request a DRM device-independent and device-dependent
interface version.  The DRM changes its behavior accordingly (busid
handling was the first change).  Returns EINVAL if unsuccessful, and
returns the actual version numbers of the DRM DI/DD interface, either
way.  Request -1.-1 version to just get the version number of an
interface without changing anything.

This was part of working to allow removal of old DRM code/features,
which I've been completey distracted from.

-- 
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http://people.freebsd.org/~anholt/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Holger Waechtler
Jon Smirl wrote:
--- Holger Waechtler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why does VT switch have to be in the kernel? I can have multiple xterms
logged
in as different users without kernel support. Why can't VT switching be
implemented as if I was switching between multiple fullscreen xterms? I
guess I
don't see why there is a difference between multiple xterms and VT's. I can
use
su to set the xterm to any account.
what if you want to create a 'freshclean' console using the SAK key or 
if your primary terminal is not responsive anymore?

You need to be able to create a new terminal without any help of the 
currently active console and you need to be able to restart the graphics 
helper library/server/whatever at any time without killing your running 
applications on other 'VTs'.


In this model SAK is implemented in the kernel by the system console. Hitting
SAK will always work even if the terminal is not responsive (unless the kernel
is dead). SAK will whack all apps on the user console, reload the graphics libs,
and get you a fresh shell. In this model it is not possible to restart the
graphics lib on one console without restarting all of the virtual consoles since
they are all sharing the same process.
This seems secure to me. Whacking everything with SAK and reloading the graphics
libraries completely stops any attack that may try to load code into the
graphics card. I wouldn't be surprised if you could write a pixel shader program
that emulates a login screen.
It may be possible to build this to suspend the apps instead of whacking them.
Then you could reattached them if needed. If not reattached in a few minutes
they would die.
hmmm, it's not clear to me how this concept would allow real multiple 
user logins at the same time like it is common -- you can rum multiple 
X11 instances on multiple VTs and every new user is able to hit SAK 
without killing other user's applications.

Holger
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Re: What is the current canonical procedure for reporting dri bugs?

2004-05-19 Thread Ian Romanick
Chris Metzler wrote:
Hi.  I'm a bit confused about the favored procedure for reporting DRI
bugs.  The DRI User Guide, at
Thank you for pointing out the inconsistency of our documentation.  As 
it turns out, we're in the process of changing the bug repository we use 
(again).  Adam Jackson is setting up a bugzilla for us at X.org.

We had originally been using the SourceForge bug tracker, but most of 
the developers on the project really, really hate it, so it wasn't 
actively maintained.  We then moved to the XFree86 bugzilla.  However, 
the driver code has moved CVS trees, and we're moving DRI away from 
XFree86 (in the sense that it will work with XFree86 *and* without). 
Because of that, we're moving a second, and hopefully final, time.

Until the X.org bugzilla is setup, either existing repository will work. 
 If the bug is observed in a released version of XFree86, the XFree86 
folks would probably like to see it in their bugzilla.

Thanks.

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Re: [Mesa3d-dev] Re: [Dri-devel] Memory management of AGP and VRAM

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
--- Holger Waechtler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 hmmm, it's not clear to me how this concept would allow real multiple 
 user logins at the same time like it is common -- you can rum multiple 
 X11 instances on multiple VTs and every new user is able to hit SAK 
 without killing other user's applications.

It's not going to allow multiple login prompts on different VTs on the same
head.

If you have a two headed card you will be able to use SAK on each one
independently. SAK will kill the processes associated with that head, not all of
the heads. If you have two cards each with four head you will be able to run
four people each independently running xserver and SAK.

What you won't be able to do is VT switch to another login screen. These screens
will work like xterms, you switch to one then use su to change identity. When
you switch you will already be logged on.

This is because the SAK screen assigned ownership of the graphics device to the
user id that is logged on. That let's the graphics code run without the need to
be a root process.

=
Jon Smirl
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intel i865 chipset docs...

2004-05-19 Thread Dave Airlie

Hi,
I've just gotten an i865 system are there any docs out there for
programming the 3d end of this? Intels site for that chipset has no
programmers reference beyond the datasheet which doesn't say muc about 3D
stuff..

Are these docs available non-NDA?

Dave.

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pam_smb / Linux DECstation / Linux VAX / ILUG person



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Re: Current redhat xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-2.i386.rpm

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
I got this working. Something is wrong in those rpm's when they overlaid the
-0.5 versions. For example 0.5 has the tls subdir and -2 does not. I whacked my
X11R6 tree and reinstalled from the -2  rpms and everything works. I didn't
spend the time tracking things down but some files that needed to be deleted
from -0.5 aren't getting deleted when -2 is installed.

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Re: intel i865 chipset docs...

2004-05-19 Thread Alex Deucher

--- Dave Airlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi,
   I've just gotten an i865 system are there any docs out there for
 programming the 3d end of this? Intels site for that chipset has no
 programmers reference beyond the datasheet which doesn't say muc
 about 3D
 stuff..
 
 Are these docs available non-NDA?

As far as I know the only non-NDA docs are the ones for the i810/5.  I
suspect you are out of luck.  You could try asking though.

Alex


 
 Dave.
 
 -- 
 David Airlie, Software Engineer
 http://www.skynet.ie/~airlied / airlied at skynet.ie
 pam_smb / Linux DECstation / Linux VAX / ILUG person
 




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Assert in r200 driver

2004-05-19 Thread Jon Smirl
Any ideas about what this is? It is from the Redhat -2 xorg rpm's. All of these
programs ran fine on SW mesa and R128 driver.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] cairogears]$ ./cairogears  -glx COMP
cairogears: r200_cmdbuf.c:295: r200EmitBlit: Assertion `(src_offset  1023) == 0
' failed.
Aborted
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cairogears]$ ./cairogears  -glx TEXT
322 frames in 5.0 seconds = 64.400 FPS
323 frames in 5.0 seconds = 64.600 FPS
Broken pipe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cairogears]$ ./cairogears  -glx TEXT2
cairogears: r200_cmdbuf.c:295: r200EmitBlit: Assertion `(src_offset  1023) == 0
' failed.
Aborted
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cairogears]$ ./cairogears  -glx SHADOW
cairogears: r200_cmdbuf.c:295: r200EmitBlit: Assertion `(src_offset  1023) == 0
' failed.
Aborted
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cairogears]$ dmesg


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What is the current canonical procedure for reporting dri bugs?

2004-05-19 Thread Chris Metzler

Hi.  I'm a bit confused about the favored procedure for reporting DRI
bugs.  The DRI User Guide, at

http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIuserguide.html

is recommended by the DRI wiki as important reading before bringing
up problems.  The DRI User Guide, in turn, suggests the Sourceforge bug
database for DRI, at

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=387atid=100387

as the appropriate venue for reporting DRI bugs.  Apparently from what I
can see, bugs posted there also generate an announcement forwarded to this
mailing list.  However, elsewhere on the wiki, it seems to be suggested
that this procedure is deprecated.  Under Development--BugZilla, it's
indicated that DRI bugs be posted through bugs.xfree86.org (to then be
manually forwarded on to the dri-devel mailing list if the bug seems
relevant to dri), and that the Sourceforge bug tracker is somewhat out of
duty for some time.  This last point seems to be borne out by the fact
that no bugs posted at Sourceforge have been assigned to someone since
almost a year ago.  And then, as a third voice, the Testing/Debugging
page on the Wiki ignores both the Sourceforge bug tracker and the XF86
BugZilla, and suggests just posting the bugs directly to this mailing
list.

Obviously in all three cases, a bug report ends up in this mailing list.
But I can imagine that the favored route is to post a bug through
the Sourceforge bug tracker or the XF86 BugZilla, because of additional
functionality they provide.  Or maybe not.  What's the favored path?

Thanks,

-c

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DRM and latency..

2004-05-19 Thread Dave Airlie

It has been pointed out to me by Andrew and  Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano
that we do a lot of sleeping in code that probably should reschedule
rather than sleep,radeon_do_wait_for_idle being a prime example, this has
a DRM_UDELAY(1), this messes up audio latencys,

Now I'm not sure that wholesale replacing these with a conditional
schedule is correct, but in most cases it looks like there should be no
issues doing this, theses functions are all usually called from a process
context,

My main worry is what to do on BSD about this?, should I just define a
DRM_SCHED( delay ) and on Linux do a schedule and do a delay on BSD until
someone steps up to figure it out?


The r128/mga and i810 also suffer from something like this ..

Dave.

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http://www.skynet.ie/~airlied / airlied at skynet.ie
pam_smb / Linux DECstation / Linux VAX / ILUG person



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