[DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star Yahoo group
Hi Folks I have just created a new Yahoo group named dstar_development, its aim is to provide a forum and resource centre for all those interested in developing their own user or repeater D-Star systems. If your idea of fun is understanding bits and bytes and/or ICs and solder, then this new group is for you. Jonathan G4KLX
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: RX Call Sign Auto write Clarification
Nate, This is true. In your scenario, a call sign route call from a 3rd repeater would switch to this party. In the manual mode, you would have not be able to respond to the caller from the 3rd repeater ( maybe to tell them to stand by as you were in another QSO and would get back with them) as your would still be routing to your initial party. Manual or automatic, call sign routing has its limitations (you can only talk to one other zone at a time) but given the application each has it's advantages. Forgo the 3rd repeater scenario you suggest, it works fairly well on the 2820 and the 91/92. Auto callsign does add another consideration when using the routing feature, but if understood and applied as it was intended , provides another tool in certain applications. I have had all of the ICOM dstar rigs and callsign routing with an ID-800 (especially mobile) is a pain. I run D-RATS in a gateway config and the AUTO Write feature is imperative for any communications outside your zone. Maybe someday when these low speed data apps get some CMD functionality this won't be such an issue, but I don't see this until ICOM provides a real-time hook to all of its Dstar rigs (as they do with the 9192) so rig control and data can be done simultaneously. I am pretty sure that developers would take this and run with it. For now we can only work with what we have. 73, Dave Cooley N4DIB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] APRS and D-Star
Let me run this by you guys once more. From what I am told D-Star is currently being used for Simulated Emergency Test and are sending DATA about patients at Hospitals. I get this info from a Guy who went to the Jacksonville, MS Hamfest and this info was put out at a D-Star conferense. OK so we take a PC and hook it up to a D-Star radio and can run HIGH Speed DATA with it right? OK so this being the case then why cant we send a MSG from one D-Star radio or user to the other? I was told here that can't be done. But if we can send HIGH speed data then of course it can be done if it's not being done right now is only maybe because somebody hasn't designed the software for it? Is this right? So if we can send HIGH speed data which could include MSG and Station Status or Beacon data and it makes it to the Internet then D-Star could send email, TEXT MSG and so on. Also a Server could be designed to handle D-Star/ APRS MSG so the two could send info or data from one to the other at a very limited size because of APRS data limits. Did I not ask this same thing a few weeks ago? Why couldn't the above be done? Lack of interest? D-Star Copyright Infringement? What am I missing here? DE WW5RM Randall
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: APRS and D-Star
--- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, n0uyx n0...@... wrote: why cant we send a MSG from one D-Star radio or user to the other? I was told here that can't be done. But if we can send HIGH speed I am going to approach this question from a different standpoint that might make more sense to the non-D-STAR community. APRS is designed around AX.25 but is not part of the AX.25 specification. In essence, APRS is a higher level protocol than AX.25. AX.25 is a transport protocol: it transports higher level protocols like APRS. D-STAR is a transport protocol: it transports higher level protocols like AMBE voice, Ethernet, serial data, etc. While AX.25 and D-STAR are very different (packet vs. streaming, etc.), we can use this analogy for this topic. There is no AX.25 - APRS messaging because there is no messaging in the AX.25 protocol. There is APRS - Winlink and APRS - email servers because those are servers connecting protocols that have messaging. There have even been some APRS - BBS type servers but those have been very limited due to the uniqueness of the various BBS protocols and the lack of BBS use anymore in many parts of the world. OK, so we can agree that there is no AX.25 - APRS messaging because AX.25 is soley a transport protocol that does not have messaging as part of the spec. You can use it to transport higher level protocols that do have messaging but AX.25 itself does not have messaging built- in. Now replace all references to AX.25 in this paragraph with D- STAR. While an over-simplification, this analogy gets to the heart of your question and the explanation of my response. 73, Pete AE5PL
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: APRS and D-Star
On two meters and 440, we have programs in use called D-Chat and D-Rats that send data back and forth between users, either simplex or through a repeater connected to the gateway. There is no high speed data capability on two meters and 440 because high speed requires more bandwidth than we have available on those bands. D-Chat has been used in emergency tests and drills and can provide hard copy to back up voice communications. The ID-1 (1200 mHz D-Star radio)) is capable of 128k as there is bandwidth available on 1.2 gHz for the speed. Increased bandwidth means less range and to this point switching times have prevented using the ID-1 with amplifiers in the DD (digital data) mode, so range may be limited. It would require about 200 watts on DD to equal a ten watt DV signal. The ID-1 is capable of connecting to the internet for email and web surfing, although that is limited by regulations and would not be what you might consider high speed in computer world terms. D-Star radios can all forward D-PRS data to the D-PRS server which is posted to the net on sites like www.findu.com . Some radios can be purchased with optional GPS, and all can be connected with outboard GPS. So if I understand your questions, yes D-Star can allow text messages between stations, exchange of short files, and GPS tracking of units in the field while still allowing for voice communications-- all using the slow speed data capability available on 2 meters and 440. Ernie W6KAP --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, n0uyx n0...@... wrote: Let me run this by you guys once more. From what I am told D-Star is currently being used for Simulated Emergency Test and are sending DATA about patients at Hospitals. I get this info from a Guy who went to the Jacksonville, MS Hamfest and this info was put out at a D-Star conferense. OK so we take a PC and hook it up to a D-Star radio and can run HIGH Speed DATA with it right? OK so this being the case then why cant we send a MSG from one D-Star radio or user to the other? I was told here that can't be done. But if we can send HIGH speed data then of course it can be done if it's not being done right now is only maybe because somebody hasn't designed the software for it? Is this right? So if we can send HIGH speed data which could include MSG and Station Status or Beacon data and it makes it to the Internet then D-Star could send email, TEXT MSG and so on. Also a Server could be designed to handle D-Star/ APRS MSG so the two could send info or data from one to the other at a very limited size because of APRS data limits. Did I not ask this same thing a few weeks ago? Why couldn't the above be done? Lack of interest? D-Star Copyright Infringement? What am I missing here? DE WW5RM Randall
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] APRS and D-Star
It's the equivalent of callsign routed text messaging. You broadcast data in a specific format locally on-air, and a listening station can alert the user and store a text message for them. If Internet gateways are available at both ends, the Internet can act as a transport between areas. All of the brains is in the application software or Kenwood rigs (that also do this), in that they see a properly formatted text message string go by, parse it for the local user's callsign, and store the message if it's destined for them. Going the other way, the rig has you enter a callsign for the destination user and formats the message appropriately. It's basically yet another implementation of something similar to SMS in the cell phone world, kinda. Nate From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:48 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] APRS and D-Star On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 02:06:38PM -, n0uyx wrote: OK so this being the case then why cant we send a MSG from one D-Star radio or user to the other? I was told here that can't be done. But if we can send HIGH speed data then of course it can be done if it's not being done right now is only maybe because somebody hasn't designed the software for it? Is this right? There are two flavors of D-Star: DV and DD. The high speed (128KBPS) 1200 MHz stuff is DD. The average user radio is DV. The two data streams have different purposes, and a DV radio can't interpret (or, right now, even receive) a DD stream. Explain something to me. I don't know much at all about APRS (and what I know about it leads me to find it supremely uninteresting). What is this MSG capability you keep harping on about, exactly? What is it used for, and how is it transmitted? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC at K6ZC port B http://www.conmicro.com http://www.k6zc.org http://www.tronguy.net http://jmaynard.livejournal.com (Yes, that's me!) http://www.hercules-390.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: APRS and D-Star
Randall, I have to side with Pete on exactly what Pete just sent here. Look at it this way, can you send SMS via your mobile radio RIGHT NOW? Yes, then you have an aprs adapted Kenwood. I am not going to go any further because your locked in on that radio's features. Nothing we say will change that. If you say NO, then your locked in on a computer program that works with APRS. (WinAPRS, UI-View, or the others) YES, THAT IS SOFTWARE that does the messaging. NO it does not include D-Star. The MSG feature and Status feature is that of a Motorola hand-held that can be programmed to send MDC1200 MSG STAT. Again, that is not D-Star. You asked why could it not be done?, for one thing internal memory, that's why it is not in any of the D-Star radio's. You asked, is it because of lack of interest? I am going to say no. I am not into rewriting the Flash ROM on my 2820 to spin the dial for 20 mins just to send the message WHERE ARE YOU? I would sale my radio before I even think about spend any amount of time turning a knob to transmit a 20 letter message just to find out what your doing... I will pick up the mic and call you, you don't answer OH WELL. D-Star Copyright? Not sure why you ask this, the JARL published the coding for D-star. Evans --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com , n0uyx n0...@... wrote: why cant we send a MSG from one D-Star radio or user to the other? I was told here that can't be done. But if we can send HIGH speed OK, so we can agree that there is no AX.25 - APRS messaging because AX.25 is soley a transport protocol that does not have messaging as part of the spec. You can use it to transport higher level protocols that do have messaging but AX.25 itself does not have messaging built- in. Now replace all references to AX.25 in this paragraph with D- STAR. While an over-simplification, this analogy gets to the heart of your question and the explanation of my response. 73, Pete AE5PL -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: RX Call Sign Auto write Clarification
Good comments Dave, but you switched from talking about voice routing to a specialized data application (D-RATS). I still contend that for voice routing, Auto causes more problems than it fixes. The scenario you give where you can't answer the 3rd repeater caller, seems far less of a problem to me than losing communication with the person I'm *really* talking to from the original repeater. (In other words, why let the rig screw up my on-going conversation for the convenience of answering a CQ or other call? That seems backwards.) I agree with you that in specialized applications like your D-RATS setup, Auto might be useful, but for the average user - the world will be a whole lot less confusing for them at first if they AVOID Auto routing until they understand how to do it manually and know what Auto is doing for them. Nate WY0X From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Cooley Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:24 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: RX Call Sign Auto write Clarification Nate, This is true. In your scenario, a call sign route call from a 3rd repeater would switch to this party. In the manual mode, you would have not be able to respond to the caller from the 3rd repeater ( maybe to tell them to stand by as you were in another QSO and would get back with them) as your would still be routing to your initial party. Manual or automatic, call sign routing has its limitations (you can only talk to one other zone at a time) but given the application each has it's advantages. Forgo the 3rd repeater scenario you suggest, it works fairly well on the 2820 and the 91/92. Auto callsign does add another consideration when using the routing feature, but if understood and applied as it was intended , provides another tool in certain applications. I have had all of the ICOM dstar rigs and callsign routing with an ID-800 (especially mobile) is a pain. I run D-RATS in a gateway config and the AUTO Write feature is imperative for any communications outside your zone. Maybe someday when these low speed data apps get some CMD functionality this won't be such an issue, but I don't see this until ICOM provides a real-time hook to all of its Dstar rigs (as they do with the 9192) so rig control and data can be done simultaneously. I am pretty sure that developers would take this and run with it. For now we can only work with what we have. 73, Dave Cooley N4DIB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star Yahoo group
The dstarsoftware list was already filling this role. You assumed there wasn't a list for it without asking. Oh goodie. yet another list. Nate WY0X From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Naylor Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:10 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star Yahoo group Hi Folks I have just created a new Yahoo group named dstar_development, its aim is to provide a forum and resource centre for all those interested in developing their own user or repeater D-Star systems. If your idea of fun is understanding bits and bytes and/or ICs and solder, then this new group is for you. Jonathan G4KLX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
