[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors.We didn't hear anything, so my buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to mind a few questions: How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector? How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call? So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly not waiting or listening for a long enough time period. When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you are unlinking? If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it? Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in any way or just see my callsign with no audio? Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are connected to a repeater or reflector.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
I suppose I would first send UR=XXNXX^^I (^=blank character space and XXNXX is the call sign of your local repeater - I must be in the 8th character space) to see if your local repeater is already linked to something. You can't dplus link to 2 places at once so if linked you may want to unlink - UR=^^^U - call sign is not needed to un-link - not all systems allow users to link/unlink Next link to another repeater set UR=XXNXX^AL to link to XXNXX module A - far end must not already be linked to something. Or link to a reflector UR=REFNNNAL where NNN is the reflector number, A, B, C is the 'time slot (for lack of a better term), and L requests a link. If there is a conversation in progress you will NOT hear the far end if you join mid stream of the transmission. Once the transmission is finished, you will hear the next transmission. Linking happens quickly, but if there is a lengthy transmssion, it may take a bit to hear the next transmission. It is good etiquette for the folks wanting to link to listen for a bit after linking to see of there is a conversation in progress and test the water. You will not over ride the far end transmission. For the folks on the far end it is wise to keep transmissions short and leave plenty of time between transmissions. Also keep the contact short - you may be going out on 5, 10 or 20 repeaters. This is nothing new - just common repeater use courtesy. For the station joining, before you jump in, can you add to the ongoing conversation ? Sometimes it is better to just listen. When there is a 3 way or more it is very courteous to direct the next transmission to a particular station, ie, over to you John etc, to reduce the chance of doubling. When you double, you may be heard on your local repeater, but maybe not on the far end. Digital does not seem to tolerate doubles very well at all. Finally - have fun and enjoy the contact - meet new people - share ideas, etc. This is my take on operation, and as always, I may be completely wrong. 73, steve nu5d On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:55 AM, kc9ony kc9...@arrl.net wrote: Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors.We didn't hear anything, -- NU5D - Nickel Under Five Dollars
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
Hi, When a repeater is linked to a reflector an internet connection is made and the local repeater will transmit over the air any data sent from the reflector. The repeater will send and data stream it hears to the reflector for retrnasmission by any other linked repeaters. The courtesy of announcing that you intend to link or unlink a repeater advises any other reperater users that the change is comming (unless they object, of course). This avoids disrupting any others comms that may be in progress at that time. Of course if you have listened a bit before taking any action you would likely hear any comms in progress. Unlinking is the only direction that can disrupt comms - a pair of hams might be conversing thru the link. Linking only adds repeaters, and the only issue is the courtesy of letting others know that they might now speak to a much larger audience. In practice most (all?) repeaters announce the link / unlink action so folks are indeed notified. On the link however the repeater does not announce what reflector is being linked. The link / unlink process is effectively instantaneous - any delay is only latency over the internet. Very unlikely you could beat the link or unlink process. Hope this helps, 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc9ony Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 09:56 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors. We didn't hear anything, so my buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to mind a few questions: How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector? How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call? So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly not waiting or listening for a long enough time period. When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you are unlinking? If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it? Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in any way or just see my callsign with no audio? Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are connected to a repeater or reflector.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
Congratulations on getting into D-Star, and for asking about linking etiquette. Steve and Ted pretty much nailed it in their responses. I'll try to add a some additional info. I hope this isn't all old info for you. As you probably know, the D-Star design and ICOM's implementation is to do callsign routing, and that is explained in each D-Star radio manual. But the beauty of the D-Star architecture is that repeater owners can run additional (including non-ICOM) software on their gateway server. It happens Robin Cutshaw AA4RC designed and wrote such a program called DPlus, which allows a repeater to be linked to another repeater or reflector. It turns out most repeater owners outside Japan have chosen to install DPlus on their gateways, so linking and unlinking are very widely available. As Steve wrote, not all repeater administrators allow normal users to issue link and unlink command, but in my experience, many and probably most do. Anyway, since DPlus linking is not an ICOM feature, that's why you won't read about it in your ICOM radio manuals. The linking is very quick. But since the gmsk protocol used by D-Star places the pertinent info for routing (MyCall, UrCall, RPT1, RPT2) in the headers preceeding the digital voice payload, if you link into a repeater with an in-flight QSO, it's likely, as Steve and Ted pointed out, that the current transmission at the far end will not be routed back to where you are. So it is best to wait until any possible current transmission ends, so the comeback can be routed properly and you'll know a QSO is in progress. How long to wait? Well, I've read some repeater websites that suggest you wait 3 minutes. That is probably safest, and if you have something else to do while waiting, that is probably best. But in reality, I'm not sure most people wait that long. I think most people wait a minute or so. Many repeaters also run a script that checks for inactivity over a link, and after, say, 10 minutes of no use, will automatically unlink and relink to that repeater's default. Others don't do that. If you discover your favorite repeater has a default link and doesn't automatically re-establish it, then when you are finished, you should unlink and link to the default manually. Often the repeater's website will tell what's the normal link. If I'm near a computer and want to link to a new repeater, I first try to bring up its website (not all have one) and see if they have any info specific to their repeater that I should know. I put the following web address in a shortcut on my desktop, so the repeater directory comes up sorted by state. This makes it easy to search for repeaters in different states. http://www.dstarusers.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5 By the way, if at some time you buy a DV Dongle or a DVAP, or if you build yourself a Hotspot, you should know all those depend solely on DPlus linking (they don't support callsign routing). It turns out Robin wrote the software for both the Dongle and the DVAP. Obviously the same etiquette for linking using these devices also applies. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: kc9ony To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:55 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors. We didn't hear anything, so my buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to mind a few questions: How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector? How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call? So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly not waiting or listening for a long enough time period. When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you are unlinking? If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it? Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in any way or just see my callsign with no audio? Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are connected to a repeater or reflector.
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
All: Before I go out looking to buy new, does anyone have a UHF voice module (ID-RP4000V) and controller (ID-RP2C) available? Two? We're looking to put up two sites in Northern Michigan, primarily for E-Comm use. One site already has a transmitter combiner and receiver multi-coupler with separate recieve/transmit antennas so I could litterally just plug it in there (would be replacing an existing UHF analog repeater). The second location we'll probably have to install antenna hardware. Both have good network connectivity. Would be good if we could save a bit rather than pay retail. If not, where's the best deals? Thanks, Chuck - N8DNX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Charles Scott To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com ; mids...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:10 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller All: Before I go out looking to buy new, does anyone have a UHF voice module (ID-RP4000V) and controller (ID-RP2C) available? Two? We're looking to put up two sites in Northern Michigan, primarily for E-Comm use. One site already has a transmitter combiner and receiver multi-coupler with separate recieve/transmit antennas so I could litterally just plug it in there (would be replacing an existing UHF analog repeater). The second location we'll probably have to install antenna hardware. Both have good network connectivity. Would be good if we could save a bit rather than pay retail. If not, where's the best deals? Thanks, Chuck - N8DNX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
You might look for a Motorola RP1225 or a narrow banded Kenwood TKR -- I have a stock TKR-820 in service with a minimum of work, just pulled the deviation down (the receive is still wide but works). Read about it here: http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ -- I am waiting for G4ULF's package before putting it on the USTRUST, but it is running on the Multi-Trust right now using the OpenG2 stuff, which you can find at http://groups.yahoo.com/prcrepeatercontroller/files On Aug 26, 2010, at 12:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent. The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D- Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Sorry typo - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/files/ On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:06 PM, John Hays wrote: OpenG2 stuff, which you can find at http://groups.yahoo.com/prcrepeatercontroller/files John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Hi Chuck, I am willing to part with my UHF module and controller. The system is only used by me and has had very light useage. I have the gateway software as well and all containers/manals. Please contact me offlist and make an offer. 73, Jeff K2AK --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Charles Scott csc...@... wrote: All: Before I go out looking to buy new, does anyone have a UHF voice module (ID-RP4000V) and controller (ID-RP2C) available? Two? We're looking to put up two sites in Northern Michigan, primarily for E-Comm use. One site already has a transmitter combiner and receiver multi-coupler with separate recieve/transmit antennas so I could litterally just plug it in there (would be replacing an existing UHF analog repeater). The second location we'll probably have to install antenna hardware. Both have good network connectivity. Would be good if we could save a bit rather than pay retail. If not, where's the best deals? Thanks, Chuck - N8DNX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow-band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 3:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Chuck, I don't have personal experience with the VXR 5000, but if Pin 3 is flat to the modulator and pin 6 is flat from the discriminator and it is true FM (no PM), then it may be a good candidate. Just start with my article and the pinout at http://www.repeater-builder.com/yaesu-vertex-standard/vxr-5000/vxr-5000-repeater-mods.html -- buy a node adapter (Satoshi or Enicomms) and give it a try, if the VXRs work out, let us all know, if not, look for something that will work like the Kenwood TKRs and use the node adapter with that. Expertise on Node Adapters: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmsk_dv_node Software expertise: http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller , http://g4ulf.blogspot.com On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Charles Scott wrote: Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow- band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
John, anyone: Is there a difference between the Satoshi and Enicomms node adapters that I need to consider? Yes, the VXR-5000 does have discriminator output. I believe the TX side can be optioned to be flat, but don't know much beyond that, so I'll have to do some research. Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 5:09 PM, John Hays wrote: Chuck, I don't have personal experience with the VXR 5000, but if Pin 3 is flat to the modulator and pin 6 is flat from the discriminator and it is true FM (no PM), then it may be a good candidate. Just start with my article and the pinout at http://www.repeater-builder.com/yaesu-vertex-standard/vxr-5000/vxr-5000-repeater-mods.html -- buy a node adapter (Satoshi or Enicomms) and give it a try, if the VXRs work out, let us all know, if not, look for something that will work like the Kenwood TKRs and use the node adapter with that. Expertise on Node Adapters: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmsk_dv_node Software expertise: http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller , http://g4ulf.blogspot.com
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] WTB Motorola GM300 for Hotspot
I'm looking for a GM300 with the following model number where in parenthesis can be either/or: #M43GM(C/R)0(0/9)C(1/2)A 73, Jozef WB2MIC wb2...@arrl.net attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
From a practical point of view they are pretty equivalent. Both run fine with the DVAR software. G4ULF's package is being tested against both and a few bugs and documentation issues are still being worked out before general release. They do have different licensing terms for their firmware which you may want to consider, I like PA4YBR's terms better. Satoshi makes disparaging remarks about other manufacturers of boards and firmware on his site, but does offer a nice enclosure with his boards. I will say that KI4LKFs (now unsupported) program RPTR and PA4YBRs firmware have some minor annoying problems on my setup, but we will eventually get it sorted out. Enicomms is in the US, Satoshi is in Japan, and PA4YBR also offers a board out of the Netherlands. http://www.dutch-star.eu/ - Fred, PA4YBR/KA4YBR http://d-star.dyndns.org/ - Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ/AD6GZ http://enicomms.com/ - Mark, G7LTT/NI2O On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Charles Scott wrote: John, anyone: Is there a difference between the Satoshi and Enicomms node adapters that I need to consider? Yes, the VXR-5000 does have discriminator output. I believe the TX side can be optioned to be flat, but don't know much beyond that, so I'll have to do some research. Chuck - N8DNX John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
John and Charles pretty much answered your questions. To me, the key point is that G4ULF's software has been accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compatible, and that he has tested his code with Fred's firmware (says so on his blog site), so you have a choice of boards and firmware. This free software and inexpensive node adapter board do save money, but as you know, all the repeater RF issues have to be addressed. The good news is with this approach, you can employ an analog radio that you may be able to get quite inexpensively, as long as it allows or you can get directly to the discriminator output and the modulator, bypassing filtering. And as you've already noted, you can typically adjust the deviation down to what other ICOM D-Star radios expect. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Charles Scott To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow-band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 3:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM
