Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to d
On 2/26/2010 9:59 PM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: Hmmm, sounds like a number of people are unimpressed with your perception that D-STAR isn't a big deal. Ahh there you go making up things I didn't say again, Ed. Actually making up stuff THEY didn't say either. Three people having two ID-1's each, and one saying they'll buy a third ID-1, isn't exactly a quorum of ham radio operators. But whatever... D-STAR's a big deal for a very small population of radio users. Let me know when NYPD installs it. Or ATT, Verizon, Sprint, or any other cellular carrier deploy it.. or Europe drops Tetra for it. If you enjoy it great. Not a single soul outside of Amateur Radio gives it the time of day. It's a protocol specifically designed for our radio service and 100% non-interoperable. That's neither bad nor good, nor am I passing judgement on it. It just is. I was stating that my entire two-way radio world doesn't revolve 100% around Amateur Radio. Is that somehow an attack on D-STAR? No. And by the way, your math is way off. I paid close to $3000 just for the ID-1s, since I got some of the first batch before the price dropped. And I didn't even mention the repeater in the basement, partial ownership in another and the radios that my wife owns. Hey, if I'm supposed to be impressed... okay. Whatever. In for a penny, in for a pound. Good for you. :-) So you're saying you're in for closer to $10K. At least we know where you sit, before you tell us where you stand, right? If I had $10K worth of gear I'd want D-STAR to take off in a big way, too. I definitely never said it was bad for YOU buy that much D-STAR gear, I said *I* couldn't cost-justify it. For me. You know, the guy behind this keyboard whom you think is somehow bothering you because he isn't *as* interested in your niche of the hobby as you are? If you're finding yourself defensive about that statement, I can't help you there. You read more into it than there really was. Note, I own D-STAR rigs, and am interested. But not fanatical, nor do I freak out when someone says something negative about it. I like trucks, some people like sports cars. Few of us get to own them all. Big deal. Lots of people think a lot more highly of D-STAR than you do. I know of a number of people with more investment in D-STAR than I have. So? Good for them. People should do what they want with their disposable income. I do. You do. Excellent. It's still a hobby, after all. I've probably spent at least $10K on the Amateur Radio hobby over the years, too... but not all on ONE technology. Never will unless $10K somehow miraculously becomes a much smaller percentage of my income, by luck, skill, or inheritance or you finally pay up on that one-million dollar ransom note I sent last week when I decided to hold your IC-2800H hostage for cash. ;-) You don't have to jump me every time I say I'm not spending $3K on this one small facet of our hobby... and act like I'm some kind of terrible guy who wants the death of D-STAR just for saying that. Repeat after me: D-STAR is a hobby. D-STAR is a hobby. D-STAR is a hobby. P25? The new one or the old one with radios that are currently being junked? MotoTRBO? The about as proprietary as you can get solution? I didn't mention the other protocols to start a discussion about their good/bad points again, Ed. You're going there, not me. I mentioned them very clearly as a complaint that all the two-way radio world has done in going digital has created a Tower of Babel of different protocols that require anyone who's serious about working with various groups, to now have to have ALL of these technologies, instead of ONE technology... called Analog FM. Unlike you, I'm SERIOUSLY interested in ALL of them. Not just D-STAR. Also Unlike you, I'm spending volunteer time in organizations who are directed by the Federal Goverment to use P25 OUTSIDE the Ham Bands. So I need ONE radio... And I play in Amateur circles that do D-STAR... so I need TWO radios... And I would LIKE to play with MotoTRBO both in Amateur and Commercial circles... so I need THREE radios... ... where one worked in the past. The chances that I would EVER spend $10K on a single protocol? Zero. If you're doing that, great. Knock yourself out. How does me saying I need two or three protocols turn into you thinking I suddenly hate D-STAR, Ed? You're WAY too sensitive. D-STAR has problems, so do they all. If it were on-topic, I'd happily tell you all the things that are totally FUBAR in P25, and eventually (if I decide to play in it) MotoTRBO too. They all kinda suck, really. They just suck in different ways. ;-) There's a point in every data guy's career where he learns that protocols are expendable. I used to read traces of PPP over serial, then I learned to read ISDN D-channel traces, now I read SIP traces. They all accomplish the same goal, getting data from point A
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to d
John, I agree it seems like a bad design. I fully understand that everyone is a volunteer, I've waited patiently for three weeks to see if they come back up. And tried to contact them first. I do indeed wish to do call sign routing (including demonstrations to non Dstar users). I also wish to register them separately due to the closed nature of the repeaters and reflector choice (I have no problems with repeaters restricting this feature) and the amount of time it takes to update a call sign location. For example, I currently run my ID80 (KB2BSL) and ID1 (KB2BSL A) at the same time. The different ports (A,B,C) of local repeaters are connected to different reflectors. If I were to use the same call sign, each transmission would trigger an update showing me bounce between systems and ports. This has the potential to have my last heard and where I really am go out of synch very easily, and it creates unnecessary traffic and resource allocation of the servers. I believe this is why you are allowed to register up to eight terminals, so one may do things such as I wish. This has been working fine for me for about a year on two radios, and I would like to add an 880 and additional ID1's to the mix in the same way. I know this all may sound a bit silly, but I hope people understand what I am trying to accomplish. Thanks Gary KB2BSL From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hays Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:48 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Cc: trust-server-adm...@dstarusers.org Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to do? Aside from the stupidity of RF based callsign registration (it's a bad design), you do have to update your multiple terminals from the gateway that you are registered on (also a bad design). The only way to effectively solve this is to have your registration deleted, which if the K2DIG people can't do it can only be accomplished by the Trust Server team, and then reregister with another system. It further points to the responsibility that goes with operating a gateway with registration -- you can't just turn things off, you must go through the process of de-registering everyone on your gateway (after notifying them that you are doing so and giving them instructions on how to re-register). We also need the Trust Admins to be responsive to cleanup needs. REMEMBER EVERYONE INVOLVED ARE VOLUNTEERS, IT MAY TAKE A WHILE. Now to the basic question. If you are going to be operating multiple radios at the same time, they still can have the same callsign, unless you are doing something that requires callsign routing (while using them at the same time): if you are using DPLUS linking, it just doesn't matter, if they are listening to the same repeater, it just doesn't matter, if you are doing cross module repeating, it just doesn't matter, only if you need to address the radio does it matter. On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Gary wrote: Ted, I am already registered. I wish to modify my existing registration to add additional terminals. I have always been under the assumption that this needs to be done from your home. I'll try another gateway and see if I can access my information. Thanks Gary KB2BSL
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to d
Nate, Hmmm, sounds like a number of people are unimpressed with your perception that D-STAR isn't a big deal. And by the way, your math is way off. I paid close to $3000 just for the ID-1s, since I got some of the first batch before the price dropped. And I didn't even mention the repeater in the basement, partial ownership in another and the radios that my wife owns. Lots of people think a lot more highly of D-STAR than you do. I know of a number of people with more investment in D-STAR than I have. P25? The new one or the old one with radios that are currently being junked? MotoTRBO? The about as proprietary as you can get solution? So which of these radios are field programmable? Heck, even user programmable with a legally obtained programming cable and software? (for under $500) Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:31 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Home repeater no longer exists on the network, what to d On 2/26/2010 4:17 PM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: I've got 2 HTs, 2 mobiles, 2 ID-1s, a DVDongle and a DVAP. If it wasn't for the need for the 2nd suffix for the ID-1 to do data transfer, I'd only use 1. LOL... oh you DO have two ID-1's. Wow. Highly invested... That's roughly $3500 worth of gear to talk on one type of network? With other real public safety affliliations meaning I'll need to install a P25 radio in my vehicle, and some folks also playing on MotoTRBO in the area -- that many rigs for one protocol is not something I could cost-justify, for sure. Wowzers. I salute your enthusiasm, however. (Yes, I understand your D-STAR rigs make decent analog rigs too... but they all do...) You might even be in the running for the I have the most Personal D-STAR radios competition with that list, Ed! :-) Nate WY0X
