[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[nick cominos]

Tried using the PayPal form from their web site to donate some green but 
that link won't work.  Anyone know why?

vy 73, Nick W9UM





"When the people fear the government it's called tyranny, when the 
government fears the people it's called freedom."
Thomas Paine 

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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Tom Wylie]

How does a European donate via Paypal.   It wont let me past as it does 
not recognise my telephone number

not post code (we dont do zip codes)..Nor do I have a State?

Tom
GM4FDM - T33TW - TY4TW


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Tom Wylie]

When does this start?

tom gm4fdm




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[DX-CHAT] BS7H...

[Jack - K4WSB]

...according to news this AM, the group is not under way yet...

Anyone care to venture a guess wether the activity right now is them or not?

Yea, yea WFWL But if it is them, working again later would be right.



Jack Hartley
K4WSB / VP2MSB
ARRL - QCWA - OOTC
DXCC Honor Roll




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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Larry, K4WLS]

A good lesson for all you guys that depend on the following to get you a
new one:

DX Cluster Spots, The Best XCVR Made, A 5 Element Yagi Up 90',
and a Linear Amp

This One Requires:

A Knowledge of Propagation
Lady Luck

If you wanted a "Give Away Extra", now you got it !!!   ENJOY all
the Lids, CB'ers, and QRM you invited in !!  I got BS-7H back in
'95 with a H.B. Vertical and 90W. Just for fun, bet I can do it again.
:-)   Larry,   K4WLS



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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[J. Allen Call]

Whatever happened to good old operating procedures.  You cannot work the
guy if you are talking at the same time.
You need to listen and learn what his operating procedures are. I have
worked many DX stations with 100 watts and
a dipole.  I have heard many a station contact the DX station and give
them a 59 and then turn around and ask them
to repeat his call sign, or what was my signal report, etc.  I have spent
many hours in trying to work the elusive DX
and patience and perseverance have paid off.  I have worked them all. 
Don't have a 5 el or the best XCVR made
or used DX cluster spots.  It's all about timing.

J
W7KSG

A good lesson for all you guys that depend on the following to get you a
new one:

DX Cluster Spots, The Best XCVR Made, A 5 Element Yagi Up 90',
and a Linear Amp

This One Requires:

A Knowledge of Propagation
Lady Luck


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Copied from the ARRL's "Contest rate Sheet"
While everybody is engaged chasing Scarborough Reef in that
super-long contest called a DXpedition, I think it's time for yet
another of Doctor Beldar's lyrical loquaciousnesses...

Imagine
By John Lennon, but retuned by Doctor Beldar

Imagine there's no jammers
It's easy if you try
No lids to QRM us
Only signals from the sky
Imagine all DXers
Making Q's today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to QSL for
And no card checkers, too.
Imagine all DXers
Ragchewing in peace...

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for separation
Or charts and maps and plans
Imagine all DXers
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll work them
And DX will be as one

73, Ward N0AX
 


73, Duane, WV2B


"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it."- 
Ralph Waldo Emerson


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[DX-CHAT] +BS7H

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)]

I continue to see the + designator in the VE7CC postings for 
BS7H.  Does this have any significance with regard to their 
intentions to upload to LOTW?


73,
Mike, W5UC

"age & treachery will overcome youth & skill"
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ 




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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[nick cominos]

Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM







The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they should 
understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our dead; and then 
we will come for you . . . and we will destroy you and all you stand for.


Brian Shul, Air Force SR71 pilot 




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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[William Beyer]

Still waiting here

73...

Bill N2WB

P.S. Was last one for meBS7H

www.clipperton2008.org

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Heger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H


BS7H web site says the first cards were mailed on July 23, and that it 
will take about 2 months for all cards to be mailed.

Still waiting here.

73, Tim - N3XX

- Original Message - 
From: "nick cominos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H



Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM







The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they 
should understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our 
dead; and then we will come for you . . . and we will destroy you and all 
you stand for.


Brian Shul, Air Force SR71 pilot


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[nick cominos]

Tks to all for the info.looks like some are still on the way.
vy 73,
Nick W9UM


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Bill-W2AY]

 Received my  cards 2  weeks ago  Bill / w2ay




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Tim Heger]

Don't know about the PayPal link, but pay with credit card works fine.

73, Tim - N3XX

- Original Message - 
From: "nick cominos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:55 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H


Tried using the PayPal form from their web site to donate some green but 
that link won't work.  Anyone know why?

vy 73, Nick W9UM





"When the people fear the government it's called tyranny, when the 
government fears the people it's called freedom."
Thomas Paine 

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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

If the PayPal link is broken, ask N1DG.  Look for his addr on the web 
page or QRZ.COM


73 - Jim AD1C

--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us

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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Barry]

Tom,
When you are at the main screen, click on sign up for Paypal, then click 
on UK in the location dropdown box (Banaba and Benin aren't listed :.)   
) and it should take to to a page with the appropriate fields.

73,
Barry W2UP

Tom Wylie wrote:
How does a European donate via Paypal.   It wont let me past as it 
does not recognise my telephone number

not post code (we dont do zip codes)..Nor do I have a State?

Tom
GM4FDM - T33TW - TY4TW


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--

Barry Kutner, W2UP 
Newtown, PA 

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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Jack - K4WSB]

News from them have been strangely silent... maybe to keep the pirates at bay?


At 02:10 PM 4/15/2007, Tom Wylie wrote:

When does this start?

tom gm4fdm


Jack Hartley
K4WSB / VP2MSB
ARRL - QCWA - OOTC
DXCC Honor Roll
[]


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[f8bbl]

Hi Tom

73 Laurent F8BBL

Source : http://www.rsgbiota.org/activate.php4
Expedition to: Scarborough Reef (AS-116) (where is this?)

From 28 Apr 2007 until 05 May 2007

Callsign: BS7H. Operator(s): VARIOUS MULTINATIONAL
QSL via: KU9C (Look up in QRZ.com)
Comments: THE EXPEDITION TO THE RAREST DX ENTITY ON EARTH. See website above 
for full information. As of 13/4/07 exact start date is as yet unknown, but 
we are hearing "End of April"

Submitted by: Edited by an administrator
http://www.bs7h.com







- Original Message -


From: "Tom Wylie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "DX-CHAT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:10 PM
Subject: **SPAM** [DX-CHAT] BS7H



When does this start?

tom gm4fdm




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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 14/04/2007 
21:36






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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

A 5 Element Yagi Up 90',
and a Linear Amp


Would really help on this one.  I can hear them near DC on 20m and 30m
with a 25 foot high delta loop and a big vertical respectively, but
not much chance of working them.

I'm hoping to put up a  BS7H-special antenna tonight, vertical beam
right on them.

Hope the K=0 holds out and I hope condx on the rocks hold out as
well... good luck to all.

Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

"ENJOY all
the Lids, CB'ers, and QRM you invited in !!"

Yes, because every ill-behaved person jamming the pileup is obviously
a recently minted U.S. Extra Class amateur.

Maybe we should look at the motive... who has more reason to jam  a pileup?

A brand new Extra all excited about DXing and who's seen the
impressive and bizarre spectacle that was BS7H in '95 and just has to
make sure they get this one...

---OR---

Someone who already has them in the log and doesn't want someone else
catching up to their total?

- - - - - -

I personally don't think it's either... I think it's jammers who like
jamming, which we've had for a long time, and a few people who are
frantically searching a vast swath of 20m hoping to find the sweet
spot to get through and forget to switch VFO's before they transmit...
they're lids, maybe, but forgivable ones.

Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Joe Hetrick]

On May 2, 2007, at 9:02 AM, Dan Zimmerman N3OX wrote:



"ENJOY all
the Lids, CB'ers, and QRM you invited in !!"

Yes, because every ill-behaved person jamming the pileup is obviously
a recently minted U.S. Extra Class amateur.




Agreed.  Don't lump all us new guys in the same category.  It's not  
fair to anybody, and it shows your ignorance.  Everybody needs  
elmering and the people that forget how they got their start, don't  
do anyone any service.


I spend about 99% of my time CW, and I love it.I wouldn't have  
had the ability or the gumption to stick with it had I not had  
literally hundreds of slow QSO's with elmers willing to slow down and  
put up with my pleas for QRS and AGN PSE, SRI.


I agree that a pileup isn't the best place to do some elmering, but,  
as with everything else; it's the few ill-behaved ones that seem like  
the majority.


Unless they're using a keyboard (and given the mistakes I hear, they  
aren't) the guys calling "UR A LID" at 30wpm aren't freshly minted  
Extra's.





I personally don't think it's either... I think it's jammers who like
jamming, which we've had for a long time, and a few people who are
frantically searching a vast swath of 20m hoping to find the sweet
spot to get through and forget to switch VFO's before they transmit...
they're lids, maybe, but forgivable ones.




I haven't been DX'ing long, but, long enough to agree with you on  
this point.


I think it's important to remember that there are some people, as  
with every collection of people, that you get along with and whom are  
reasonable.  There are people eager to learn and willing to listen.


There are also people willing to sit and gripe and there are those  
willing to teach.  I'm certainly glad I was fortunate enough to be a  
slow-coder, with an easy test and a question pool printed in a book  
that had lots and lots of hams willing to sit down and play with me  
and show me how to get better and understand more.  The learning  
process continues, and their patience is amazing.


Without them I wouldn't be intentionally QRM'ing anyone, I'd probably  
not be hamming at all.  Look at all the fun I would have missed, and  
the skills I wouldn't have acquired.



Joe, KC0VKN


--
Joe Hetrick
perl -e 'print pack 
("h*",a6865647279636b604269647a616e69647f627e2e65647),"\n"'

Your Excuse is: Lusers learning curve appears to be fractal




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Let us not also forget that, sad to say, there are those amongst the licensed 
multitude who... shall we say don't have all of their ducks in a row?  All of 
their marbles?  A few bricks shy of a load? 

They either don't (or can't) know better; or due to some twisted logic that 
exists only in the grey matter between their own ears, know what they're doing 
and are in some sick manner enjoying it.

Their license class (if any) or time licensed (if any) is irrelevant.  No 
amount of training will prevent the mentally ill or mentally diminished from 
completing their tasks at hand.

Fighting back in kind is not an option, as it only creates further chaos; 
sometimes I believe one of these rogues starts something up and manages to get 
one frequency cop at the throat of another, and then steps back and enjoys the 
fight.  No one "wins" -- the frequency cops beat each other up, the DX and 
those calling them get frustrated, and the sick twisted being that started it 
all has a moment of "glory" before the need to do it again descends upon them.

Name calling and finger pointing won't work.  "Policing" the frequency won't 
work and often has the oppposite effect of what is intended.

Ignore them.  As hard as it is.  If they have no audience, if they realize 
finally that their efforts are for naught as they're not gumming up the works, 
they'll go off elsewhere and do something else.

Don't give these cretins what they want and crave.  

73

--
From: Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2007/05/02 Wed AM 10:09:23 CDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: BS7H

At 11:23 AM 05/02/2007, John Warren wrote:
>Larry K4WLS wrote:
>
>>If you wanted a "Give Away Extra", now you got it !!!   ENJOY all
>>the Lids, CB'ers, and QRM you invited in !!  I got BS-7H back in
>>'95 with a H.B. Vertical and 90W. Just for fun, bet I can do it again.
>
>Larry,
>
>There's no reason to believe that the BS7H QRM is due to the 
>newcomers into our hobby. Doubt that most of them know who BS7H is! 
>Much more likely to come from frustrated, impatient 20wpm OTs who 
>are near the top of Honor Roll.

Nope, I disagree with both of these. I'm not talking about frequency 
cops here, they're a different breed.

I think many of the real problem-children here are more likely 
General- and Advanced-Class(less) ops who wander cluelessly through 
the hobby. This type of op likely has 20+ year old un-maintained 
equipment, coax that's more green than copper and white inside, a 
lossy trapped tribander on a rusty old 30 foot tall TV tower and who 
knows where to find his buddies and not much else. Because his 
station is crap or his ears aren't working, he'll come up and start 
calling on top of the DX, not hearing anything, just keep at it. Or 
the other type who looks at his cluster connection, sees a spot for 
something he doesn't quite understand and just starts throwing his call in.

This last type is the kind of ham I knew a lot of when I was new to 
the hobby. This bunch gets excited when they have 20m SSB QSOs with 
Bulgaria, Latvia and the Czech republic (no offence to OMs from those 
FB countries intended) and ecstatic when they work a couple of JA, 
VKs and ZLs in a day. The concept of what BS7H really is is lost on 
them and they just blunder into the pile not understanding the 
dynamics involved, how to call, etc. They are NOT really DXers, 
they're wannabees or don't-wannabees.

Think of the guys you see at hamfests in coveralls or other 
ill-fitting clothes and callsign-hats, wandering around with moths in 
their wallets and between their ears. This type will criticize or go 
against anything that they can't understand or can't afford. They'll 
put down contesters and DXers with big stations because they can't 
afford to do it themselves, or don't want to take the time to learn. 
I think we all know a bunch of guys who fit this description to one 
degree or another.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[DAVE WHITE]

I think that half the problem here is just plain bad operating, and not 
listening to what's going on.  This afternoon I had a good listen to BS7H's 
pileup on 17m ssb (once I'd worked them of course).  As BS7H called specific 
stations many times, the Italians (and others, but mainly Italians) just kept 
calling, and calling and calling.  It's infuriating to hear the DX call for 
"the SM6 only, the SM6 O-N-L-Y, all others stand by" and ten thousand Italians 
still keep calling regardless. That just makes each QSO take about 5 minutes, 
or seemingly so.
   
  They say that if you give an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of 
typewriters they'll recreate the works of Shakespeare.  Well I might just be 
able to tell you where to find the infinite number of monkeys.
   
  Dave G0OIL

Ron Notarius W3WN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Let us not also forget that, sad to say, there are those amongst the licensed 
multitude who... shall we say don't have all of their ducks in a row? All of 
their marbles? A few bricks shy of a load? 

They either don't (or can't) know better; or due to some twisted logic that 
exists only in the grey matter between their own ears, know what they're doing 
and are in some sick manner enjoying it.

Their license class (if any) or time licensed (if any) is irrelevant. No amount 
of training will prevent the mentally ill or mentally diminished from 
completing their tasks at hand.

Fighting back in kind is not an option, as it only creates further chaos; 
sometimes I believe one of these rogues starts something up and manages to get 
one frequency cop at the throat of another, and then steps back and enjoys the 
fight. No one "wins" -- the frequency cops beat each other up, the DX and those 
calling them get frustrated, and the sick twisted being that started it all has 
a moment of "glory" before the need to do it again descends upon them.

Name calling and finger pointing won't work. "Policing" the frequency won't 
work and often has the oppposite effect of what is intended.

Ignore them. As hard as it is. If they have no audience, if they realize 
finally that their efforts are for naught as they're not gumming up the works, 
they'll go off elsewhere and do something else.

Don't give these cretins what they want and crave. 

73

--
From: Peter Dougherty 
Date: 2007/05/02 Wed AM 10:09:23 CDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: BS7H

At 11:23 AM 05/02/2007, John Warren wrote:
>Larry K4WLS wrote:
>
>>If you wanted a "Give Away Extra", now you got it !!! ENJOY all
>>the Lids, CB'ers, and QRM you invited in !! I got BS-7H back in
>>'95 with a H.B. Vertical and 90W. Just for fun, bet I can do it again.
>
>Larry,
>
>There's no reason to believe that the BS7H QRM is due to the 
>newcomers into our hobby. Doubt that most of them know who BS7H is! 
>Much more likely to come from frustrated, impatient 20wpm OTs who 
>are near the top of Honor Roll.

Nope, I disagree with both of these. I'm not talking about frequency 
cops here, they're a different breed.

I think many of the real problem-children here are more likely 
General- and Advanced-Class(less) ops who wander cluelessly through 
the hobby. This type of op likely has 20+ year old un-maintained 
equipment, coax that's more green than copper and white inside, a 
lossy trapped tribander on a rusty old 30 foot tall TV tower and who 
knows where to find his buddies and not much else. Because his 
station is crap or his ears aren't working, he'll come up and start 
calling on top of the DX, not hearing anything, just keep at it. Or 
the other type who looks at his cluster connection, sees a spot for 
something he doesn't quite understand and just starts throwing his call in.

This last type is the kind of ham I knew a lot of when I was new to 
the hobby. This bunch gets excited when they have 20m SSB QSOs with 
Bulgaria, Latvia and the Czech republic (no offence to OMs from those 
FB countries intended) and ecstatic when they work a couple of JA, 
VKs and ZLs in a day. The concept of what BS7H really is is lost on 
them and they just blunder into the pile not understanding the 
dynamics involved, how to call, etc. They are NOT really DXers, 
they're wannabees or don't-wannabees.

Think of the guys you see at hamfests in coveralls or other 
ill-fitting clothes and callsign-hats, wandering around with moths in 
their wallets and between their ears. This type will criticize or go 
against anything that they can't understand or can't afford. They'll 
put down contesters and DXers with big stations because they can't 
afford to do it themselves, or don't want to take the time to learn. 
I think we all know a bunch of guys who fit this description to one 
degree or another.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Larry, K4WLS]

Operating Procedures - Exactly correct Jerry !!   I didn't think
there was anyone around besides me that could remember that
one !! At least one !! OK - Enuf Said Here,   73,  Larry
 
From: "J. Allen Call" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H


Whatever happened to good old operating procedures.  You cannot work the
guy if you are talking at the same time.
You need to listen and learn what his operating procedures are. I have
worked many DX stations with 100 watts and
a dipole.  I have heard many a station contact the DX station and give
them a 59 and then turn around and ask them
to repeat his call sign, or what was my signal report, etc.  I have spent
many hours in trying to work the elusive DX
and patience and perseverance have paid off.  I have worked them all. 
Don't have a 5 el or the best XCVR made
or used DX cluster spots.  It's all about timing.

J
W7KSG

A good lesson for all you guys that depend on the following to get you a
new one:

DX Cluster Spots, The Best XCVR Made, A 5 Element Yagi Up 90',
and a Linear Amp

This One Requires:

A Knowledge of Propagation
Lady Luck




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[harris_ruben]

This One Requires:

A Knowledge of Propagation
Lady Luck




and a voice keyer. :-D

Sadly, the logs won't be up until it's all over, so I need an 
insurance contact (didn't hear my "N" prefix over the QRM, but DID 
get the "2ERN"


A near-real-time log would help keep the noise down. Perhaps it just 
wasn't practical.


N2ERN


--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur


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Re: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H

[Tom - KE1JF]

I logged into LoTW & found the following info;
Last upload for BS7H: 2004-03-17 05:32:49Z

(Note: The date shown is when the log was sent to Logbook, not necessarily 
the date the QSO took place.)


So the VE7CC is adding the + designator from the previous operation.

73,
Tom, KE1JF


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H


I continue to see the + designator in the VE7CC postings for BS7H.  Does 
this have any significance with regard to their intentions to upload to 
LOTW?


73,
Mike, W5UC

"age & treachery will overcome youth & skill"
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/


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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 
269.6.2/785 - Release Date: 5/2/2007 2:16 PM







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[DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Charles Harpole]

Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks any 
attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read 
the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview while 
on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe at 
the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly 
dangerous this op was.


Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men who 
were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing take 
away from that.


However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know 
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very 
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our 
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike, 
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would 
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend 
on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the 
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.


Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
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[DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Osten B Magnusson]

Pushed the wrong button so this went to W9SZ...

Martti, OH2BH, has been on Scarborough Reef before and 
that didn't make him stay home! If you find the old book Martti 
wrote "Where do we go next?", you can read about his first 
real DX-pedition to Annobon, 3C0AN, and it was the first 
operation from that island. No landing strip but the inhabitants 
on Annobon "tried to make one" and a small military aircraft 
from Libreville managed to land. More problems when Martti 
and OH1MM were to be picked up, the aircraft was heavy and 
the pilots were not sure if they could take off - "shall we leave 
Martti or the equipment here?" They decided on the equipment...  
This was in 1972 and Martti has since always had problems with 
complicated malaria - it's been real hard for him.


Some DX'ers do a lot of dangerous things for us sitting here 
in our houses. My friends in D.R. Congo (9Q1D, 9Q1EK and

9Q1TB) have been shot at by local rebels in Kinshasa, and
Georges, 9Q1EK, has gunshot holes from a Kalashnikov 
in his UN marked car.

.
Don't criticize, try yourselves to go to places somewhere, more 
rare than the Caribbean Islands - even though these places also 
may be somewhat dangerous as JR (Johnny) Cash once had

robbers breaking in and shooting in his house in Jamaica.
It also looks dangerous (for WAS) to live in Oklahoma,
Kansas etc. these days... And please NEVER go somewhere
by car, there are always drunks driving in the opposite 
direction! If you are at my age, also make sure that you don't fall

when you are out walking!

73/DX de Osten  SM5DQC[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message - 
From: "Zack Widup" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts




I can see your point Charlie, but maybe the people who we REALLY need to 
ask are the people who put on the DXpedition and went there.  Just like 
those who climb Mt. Everest or K2, they knew what they were getting into 
beforehand and knew what was likely to happen when they got there.


It seems there are people willing to go to these places so we can sit in 
our comfy chairs and try to work them.  They do so on their own 
responsibility.  They took the risk and great personal cost to do so.  
How are THEY going to feel if the entity is deleted and their work was 
for naught?


The time to "delete" an entity such as Scarborough is before it even gets 
created.  That way no one has to feel a personal loss because they did 
risk their lives and pocketbooks for nothing.


73, Zack W9SZ




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[DX-CHAT] BS7H LOTW

[Kenneth Sobel]

My two BS7H qsos are in the on-line log but not in LOTW.
My LOTW account shows that I entered the qso info but no qsl match.
Does anyone else have this problem?
de Ken W3JJ



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Tim Heger]

BS7H web site says the first cards were mailed on July 23, and that it will 
take about 2 months for all cards to be mailed.

Still waiting here.

73, Tim - N3XX

- Original Message - 
From: "nick cominos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H



Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM







The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they 
should understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our dead; 
and then we will come for you . . . and we will destroy you and all you 
stand for.


Brian Shul, Air Force SR71 pilot


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)]

Yep, got mine yesterday, and got confirmations in LOTW on Saturday morning.

73,
Mike, W5UC

At 05:11 PM 8/28/2007, nick cominos wrote:

Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM


"age & treachery will overcome youth & skill"
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[EA6BH \"Bahia Azul\"]

Yes I received nice QSL two days a go from BS7H

 Teo  EA6BH
- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Heger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H


BS7H web site says the first cards were mailed on July 23, and that it 
will take about 2 months for all cards to be mailed.

Still waiting here.

73, Tim - N3XX

- Original Message - 
From: "nick cominos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H



Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM







The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they 
should understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our 
dead; and then we will come for you . . . and we will destroy you and all 
you stand for.


Brian Shul, Air Force SR71 pilot


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[Zack Widup]

Still waiting here for BS7H, N8S, VU7RG.

73, Zack W9SZ

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, nick cominos wrote:


Has anyone received cards yet?
vy 73,
Nick W9UM




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[mike-sv1rk]

- Original Message - 
From: "Bill-W2AY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "dx-chat" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:50 AM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H




 Received my  cards 2  weeks ago  Bill / w2ay




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hello   to all   receive  via Lotw   wait paper  qsls 73 Mike




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H

[M. Kent Miller]

My question also, Bill, and I' m in the same boat, needing it for # 1. 
it seems odd to me that a great number of the guys in Europe have received 
their cards, but we have not.  I know that Steve - KU9C is an excellent 
manager, and that we will get our cards eventually, but I kinda wish nothing 
had been posted about them going out starting in mid JulyI have almost 
worn out one pair of shoes going to the mailbox every day for the last 2 
months, only to find it containing bills instead of BS7H cards. 

73,
Kent - K4MK
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill 
  To: DX-CHAT 
  Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:38 PM
  Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H


  I am wondering if anyone has heard any update on the BS7H QSL cards.  Since 
this #1 Honor Roll for me I sure like to get mine?  

  This was posted on the BS7H web site on 23 July:

  "Steve, KU9C, has received over 10,000 envelopes so we expect it will take 
approximately 2 months before EVERY card is answered." 

  Approximately 2 months is here??

  Thanks
  Bill W4WX

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[DX-CHAT] BS7H STRONG HERE

[John Maikisch]

 


  THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I 
WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO, PROBABLY WOULD  NOT 
HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE BUT WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME. 
STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER ALL. 

  JOHN - K2AZ


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H on 80M

[Charlie, W0YG]

They had a good signal into Colorado this morning.  I heard several
Stateside stations from CA to MN get through so they were being heard all
over the western US.  I hope they have as good a signal on 160M because now
I think we stand a chance of hearing them on this band.  It will probably be
late in the DXpedition before they try TOP though.

We have also been able to hear them easily on 20 and 17M so prop seems to
favor this area.  Haven't listened for them on 40M yet.

73,

Charlie, W0YG..>>


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Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H

[Art RX9TX]

 Hello Tom,

TK> I logged into LoTW & found the following info;
TK> Last upload for BS7H: 2004-03-17 05:32:49Z
TK> So the VE7CC is adding the + designator from the previous operation.

>>I continue to see the + designator in the VE7CC postings for BS7H.  Does 
>>this have any significance with regard to their intentions to upload to 
>>LOTW?

It  is  not  VE7CC  who  is  adding  the  +, but the HB9BZA, who keeps
updating  the  LoTW users list. Cluster s/w adds the + if spotted call
is shown in that lists. See http://www.hb9bza.net/lotw

I  talked  to Robert about removing those whose calls do not appear in
the  users logs, say if last QSO date uploaded to LoTW is older that 2
years.  Robert did not seem to like the idea, but I believe this could
be revised.


-- 
 73...Art RX9TX

 http://rx9tx.qrz.ru




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Re[4]: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H

[Art RX9TX]

 Hello dx-chat,

OBM> If you are using VE7CC cluster program it asks you
OBM> for LoTW update (telling you are still using it) a couple
OBM> of times each week.


I  bet  it  asks  for updating LoTW users list right from HB9BZA's web
site.

You  might  search  who  is responsible for + shown by VE7CC s/w, just
turn the country prefix feature off on the cluster side and see if you
can still see the + in the spots.


OBM> When you get the red message
OBM> click on it an it will tell VE7CC and the message turns 
OBM> to green. For those not using the VE7CC-program the
OBM> information comes from HB9BZA.

>> TK> I logged into LoTW & found the following info;
>> TK> Last upload for BS7H: 2004-03-17 05:32:49Z
>> TK> So the VE7CC is adding the + designator from the previous operation.
>> 
I continue to see the + designator in the VE7CC postings for BS7H.  Does 
this have any significance with regard to their intentions to upload to 
LOTW?
>> 
>> It  is  not  VE7CC  who  is  adding  the  +, but the HB9BZA, who keeps
>> updating  the  LoTW users list. Cluster s/w adds the + if spotted call
>> is shown in that lists. See http://www.hb9bza.net/lotw
>> 
>> I  talked  to Robert about removing those whose calls do not appear in
>> the  users logs, say if last QSO date uploaded to LoTW is older that 2
>> years.  Robert did not seem to like the idea, but I believe this could
>> be revised.

-- 
 73...Art RX9TX

 http://rx9tx.qrz.ru




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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[LA5HE Ragnar Otterstad]

However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know 
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very 
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our 
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike, 
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would 
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend 
on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the 
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.

Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Quite a few DX.-ers are now focusing on IOTA as a more attractive
alternative than DXCC now..
Rocks like BS7 will still be dangerous, of course ! 
73

Rag LA5HE




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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Jay Hainline]

It makes me wonder if the ARRL would be liable is someone was seriously
injured or killed by trying to put this "land mass" on the air. A place
where the only shelter you can put up is an umbrella should be deleted.
Maybe there should be a minimum land mass requirement in the dxcc rules?

73 Jay


Jay Hainline  KA9CFD  EN40om
Colchester, IL

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 05:39
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks any
attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read
the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview while
on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe at
the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly
dangerous this op was.

Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men who
were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing take
away from that.

However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike,
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend
on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.

Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[john]

At 01:39 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote:
Oh please

Not everyone wants a rubber padded room world, where everything is safe and 
risk free.  If you don't wish to go, then don't, but don't remove the 
excitement of doing something difficult for the rest of the world, just 
because YOU think it's the way things should be.


Nobody at the ARRL puts a gun to someones head, and forces guys to go. They 
do it precisely because it's difficult, remote, and yes, potentially 
dangerous and certainly exciting.


John K5MO






However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know 
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very 
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing 
our fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning 
strike, or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen 
disaster.  How would we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How 
much should we depend on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they 
please, but not with the sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.


Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Bernie McClenny, W3UR]

HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to re-think
the DXCC status of this place?"

This would set a terrible precedence!  We must follow the DXCC rules
otherwise we will destroy the very fabric of the integrity of the DXCC
program.  If we do as Charles suggests for BS7H what will be next?  This is
a slippery slope.  Anyone could then make the same case for many other
counters on the DXCC list.  I won't give examples but one could easily list
many more countries for their "own personal" reasons.  We have gone down
this road many times over the years.  So there is no need to repeat this
thread.  There is one and only one way for a DXCC Entity (country) to be
removed from the DXCC list.  

Notice I said removed!  I don't think many people realize the next country
that does not meet the DXCC criteria will be removed, not deleted, as there
will be no more deletes because of the results of DXCC 2000.  That's right a
removal, which will be as if you never worked it!  More on that discussion
later.

Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC list.
The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which put
it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid 90s.
Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet the
criteria.

I wonder how many have actually read the DXCC rules?
http://www.arrl.org/awards/dxcc/rules.html
Notice I said read them, not understood them all!  Some are hard to
understand, but then again so are some of the counters on the list!

See you in the next pileup?
Bernie, W3UR  



Bernie McClenny, W3UR
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Now more than ever - you need The Daily DX and The Weekly DX - to keep up
with the DX news from around the globe!

Editor of - The Daily DX <-- two free weeks http://www.dailydx.com/order.htm
  - The Weekly DX <-- free sample
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  - How's DX

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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 01:39
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks any 
attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read 
the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview while

on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe at

the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly 
dangerous this op was.

Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men who

were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing take 
away from that.

However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know 
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very 
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our 
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike, 
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would 
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend 
on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the 
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.

Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail. 
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
n_HM_mini_protection_0507



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Steve-KF2TI]

Bravo, and very well stated

Sir Edmund Hillary said it best when asked why he climbed Mt Everest.
 His response, "because it was there"


On 10 May 2007 at 6:39, john wrote:

Date sent:  Thu, 10 May 2007 06:39:39 -0400
From:   john <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:        Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], dx-chat@njdxa.org
Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> At 01:39 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote:
> Oh please
>
> Not everyone wants a rubber padded room world, where everything is safe and
> risk free.  If you don't wish to go, then don't, but don't remove the
> excitement of doing something difficult for the rest of the world, just
> because YOU think it's the way things should be.
>
> Nobody at the ARRL puts a gun to someones head, and forces guys to go. They
> do it precisely because it's difficult, remote, and yes, potentially
> dangerous and certainly exciting.
>
> John K5MO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know
> >mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very
> >dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing
> >our fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning
> >strike, or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen
> >disaster.  How would we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How
> >much should we depend on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they
> >please, but not with the sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.
> >
> >Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?
> >
> >Charles Harpole
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >_
> >Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail.
> >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507
> >
> >
> >
> >Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
> >
> >To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
> >
> >This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
>
>
>
> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
> http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
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>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
> http://njdxa.org
>
>





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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[N4BAA - Jose Castillo]

John,

Exactly! I am in 100% agreement with you.

A few "Holy Grails" scattered about the world is a good 
thing.  It won't take long for someone or some group to come 
along and step up to the challenge!  Money holds most back, 
but it is MY personal opinion, that if the monetary hurdle 
were not there, MANY would take that challenge!


Danger accessing a given location is NOT a reason to remove 
an "entity" from the DXCC list!.. There are islands where 
amateurs have died while on DXPeditions (Malpelo I 
think..just to name one)..and they are still on the list.

What better way to go? 

Jose - N4BAA




john wrote:

At 01:39 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote:
Oh please

Not everyone wants a rubber padded room world, where everything is safe 
and risk free.  If you don't wish to go, then don't, but don't remove 
the excitement of doing something difficult for the rest of the world, 
just because YOU think it's the way things should be.


Nobody at the ARRL puts a gun to someones head, and forces guys to go. 
They do it precisely because it's difficult, remote, and yes, 
potentially dangerous and certainly exciting.


John K5MO






However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I 
know mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other 
very dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction 
placing our fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, 
lightning strike, or just a nasty fall would have been an 
easy-to-happen disaster.  How would we feel as hams if the worst had 
happened there?  How much should we depend on LUCK? I think anyone can 
go where ever they please, but not with the sanction and official 
stamp of our great avocation.


Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
Catch suspicious messages before you open them—with Windows Live 
Hotmail. 
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507 





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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)]

Good Morning Bernie & All:

After seeing the video from 1997 I too questioned whether BS7 should 
be on the list. My conclusion is that it should never have been a new 
entity(don't ask me why, I don't have a good answer).  However, now 
that it is on the list I do not believe it should be removed.  In 
retrospect, a land mass clause probably should have been an original 
part of the rules, but it wasn't/isn't.  You can't un-ring the bell.


Move on.

73,
Mike, W5UC





At 05:59 AM 5/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:

HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to re-think
the DXCC status of this place?"

This would set a terrible precedence!  We must follow the DXCC rules
otherwise we will destroy the very fabric of the integrity of the DXCC
program.  If we do as Charles suggests for BS7H what will be next?  This is
a slippery slope.  Anyone could then make the same case for many other
counters on the DXCC list.  I won't give examples but one could easily list
many more countries for their "own personal" reasons.  We have gone down
this road many times over the years.  So there is no need to repeat this
thread.  There is one and only one way for a DXCC Entity (country) to be
removed from the DXCC list.

Notice I said removed!  I don't think many people realize the next country
that does not meet the DXCC criteria will be removed, not deleted, as there
will be no more deletes because of the results of DXCC 2000.  That's right a
removal, which will be as if you never worked it!  More on that discussion
later.

Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC list.
The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which put
it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid 90s.
Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet the
criteria.

I wonder how many have actually read the DXCC rules?
http://www.arrl.org/awards/dxcc/rules.html
Notice I said read them, not understood them all!  Some are hard to
understand, but then again so are some of the counters on the list!

See you in the next pileup?
Bernie, W3UR



Bernie McClenny, W3UR
--
Now more than ever - you need The Daily DX and The Weekly DX - to keep up
with the DX news from around the globe!

Editor of - The Daily DX <-- two free weeks http://www.dailydx.com/order.htm
  - The Weekly DX <-- free sample
http://www.dailydx.com/weekly2.html
  - How's DX

http://www.dailydx.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 01:39
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks any
attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read
the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview while

on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe at

the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly
dangerous this op was.

Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men who

were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing take
away from that.

However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike,
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend
on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.

Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
n_HM_mini_protection_0507



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--
No virus found in this incom

RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Don Greenbaum]

If you delete BS7 based on danger, then you need to look at all the other 
entities that are not "safe".  Peter I, South Sandwich, Baghdad, Los Angeles, 
VU4 (Tsunami Danger).

See where this is headed?

Don
N1DG

At 07:58 AM 5/10/2007, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:
>Good Morning Bernie & All:
>
>After seeing the video from 1997 I too questioned whether BS7 should be on the 
>list. My conclusion is that it should never have been a new entity(don't ask 
>me why, I don't have a good answer).  However, now that it is on the list I do 
>not believe it should be removed.  In retrospect, a land mass clause probably 
>should have been an original part of the rules, but it wasn't/isn't.  You 
>can't un-ring the bell.
>
>Move on.
>
>73,
>Mike, W5UC
>
>
>
>
>
>At 05:59 AM 5/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
>>HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to re-think
>>the DXCC status of this place?"
>>
>>This would set a terrible precedence!  We must follow the DXCC rules
>>otherwise we will destroy the very fabric of the integrity of the DXCC
>>program.  If we do as Charles suggests for BS7H what will be next?  This is
>>a slippery slope.  Anyone could then make the same case for many other
>>counters on the DXCC list.  I won't give examples but one could easily list
>>many more countries for their "own personal" reasons.  We have gone down
>>this road many times over the years.  So there is no need to repeat this
>>thread.  There is one and only one way for a DXCC Entity (country) to be
>>removed from the DXCC list.
>>
>>Notice I said removed!  I don't think many people realize the next country
>>that does not meet the DXCC criteria will be removed, not deleted, as there
>>will be no more deletes because of the results of DXCC 2000.  That's right a
>>removal, which will be as if you never worked it!  More on that discussion
>>later.
>>
>>Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC list.
>>The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which put
>>it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
>>affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid 90s.
>>Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
>>Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
>>don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet the
>>criteria.
>>
>>I wonder how many have actually read the DXCC rules?
>>http://www.arrl.org/awards/dxcc/rules.html
>>Notice I said read them, not understood them all!  Some are hard to
>>understand, but then again so are some of the counters on the list!
>>
>>See you in the next pileup?
>>Bernie, W3UR
>>
>>
>>
>>Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>--
>>Now more than ever - you need The Daily DX and The Weekly DX - to keep up
>>with the DX news from around the globe!
>>
>>Editor of - The Daily DX <-- two free weeks http://www.dailydx.com/order.htm
>>  - The Weekly DX <-- free sample
>>http://www.dailydx.com/weekly2.html
>>  - How's DX
>>
>>http://www.dailydx.com
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole
>>Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 01:39
>>To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
>>Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts
>>
>>Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks any
>>attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read
>>the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview while
>>
>>on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe at
>>
>>the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly
>>dangerous this op was.
>>
>>Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men who
>>
>>were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing take
>>away from that.
>>
>>However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know
>>mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very
>>dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our
>>fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike,
>>or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would
>>we feel as hams if the worst ha

Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Peter Forbes]

Hi all,

In the near future BS7 may delete itself if global warming continues, the 
ocean levels rise and the tidal extremes increase.


But whilst it IS there, why not?

Cheers

Peter  VK3QI

- Original Message - 
From: "Don Greenbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:13 PM
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


If you delete BS7 based on danger, then you need to look at all the other 
entities that are not "safe".  Peter I, South Sandwich, Baghdad, Los 
Angeles, VU4 (Tsunami Danger).


See where this is headed?

Don
N1DG

At 07:58 AM 5/10/2007, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH) wrote:

Good Morning Bernie & All:

After seeing the video from 1997 I too questioned whether BS7 should be on 
the list. My conclusion is that it should never have been a new 
entity(don't ask me why, I don't have a good answer).  However, now that 
it is on the list I do not believe it should be removed.  In retrospect, a 
land mass clause probably should have been an original part of the rules, 
but it wasn't/isn't.  You can't un-ring the bell.


Move on.

73,
Mike, W5UC





At 05:59 AM 5/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to 
re-think

the DXCC status of this place?"

This would set a terrible precedence!  We must follow the DXCC rules
otherwise we will destroy the very fabric of the integrity of the DXCC
program.  If we do as Charles suggests for BS7H what will be next?  This 
is

a slippery slope.  Anyone could then make the same case for many other
counters on the DXCC list.  I won't give examples but one could easily 
list

many more countries for their "own personal" reasons.  We have gone down
this road many times over the years.  So there is no need to repeat this
thread.  There is one and only one way for a DXCC Entity (country) to be
removed from the DXCC list.

Notice I said removed!  I don't think many people realize the next 
country
that does not meet the DXCC criteria will be removed, not deleted, as 
there
will be no more deletes because of the results of DXCC 2000.  That's 
right a
removal, which will be as if you never worked it!  More on that 
discussion

later.

Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC 
list.
The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which 
put

it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid 
90s.
Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list 
like
Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me 
you
don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet 
the

criteria.

I wonder how many have actually read the DXCC rules?
http://www.arrl.org/awards/dxcc/rules.html
Notice I said read them, not understood them all!  Some are hard to
understand, but then again so are some of the counters on the list!

See you in the next pileup?
Bernie, W3UR



Bernie McClenny, W3UR
--
Now more than ever - you need The Daily DX and The Weekly DX - to keep up
with the DX news from around the globe!

Editor of - The Daily DX <-- two free weeks 
http://www.dailydx.com/order.htm

 - The Weekly DX <-- free sample
http://www.dailydx.com/weekly2.html
 - How's DX

http://www.dailydx.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles 
Harpole

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 01:39
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

Fellow DXers Prior to the latest BS7H op, I had not given the Rocks 
any

attention and had only a vague notion of what is there.  But today I read
the web sites, saw the photos,  and listened to James' super interview 
while


on site.  I come away of two minds... one with great appreciation and awe 
at


the accomplishment and second with a deeper understanding of how truly
dangerous this op was.

Of course, I congratulate all who make this happen and especially to men 
who


were willing genuinely to risk their lives to do the op.  Let nothing 
take

away from that.

However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know
mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very
dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing 
our
fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning 
strike,
or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How 
would
we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we 
depend

on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the
sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.

Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_

Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

N1DG; Los Angeles is a new one?  Hehehe.

I agree that there is no sense deleting an entity because of danger.
Yes, the BS7H guys put their lives on the line for a few silly radio
contacts, but I bet that it was an experience that they will never for
a second regret.

It's called an adventure.  If it had truly been a suicide mission, no
one would activate it.

- - - - - - -

I think there should never be a precedent set for deletion or
exclusion from the DXCC list because a particular entity is too hard
to activate, no matter what the reason.

I want more entities, not fewer.  More fun that way (point taken about
IOTA; haven't gone that way yet, but maybe after I work another 40
countries or so )

73,
Dan


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Peter Dougherty]

At 06:59 AM 05/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:

Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC list.
The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which put
it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid 90s.
Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet the
criteria.


I don't think there's a solution to this that will please everybody. 
I'd personally like to see the rules overhauled completely at some 
point down the road, but how that could be accomplished I really 
don't know. I'm not in favour of creating new ones by rule changes, 
nor deleting/removing old ones by fiat either, but the mish-mash that 
exists now is somewhat bizarre and could use a revamp at some point.


I'm definitely not in favour of mollycoddling DXers and DXpeditioners 
by removing tough- or dangerous-to-activate entities just because 
they're tough or dangerous to activate. Free will is truly a wonderful concept.





Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Zack Widup]

I can see your point Charlie, but maybe the people who we REALLY need to 
ask are the people who put on the DXpedition and went there.  Just like 
those who climb Mt. Everest or K2, they knew what they were getting into 
beforehand and knew what was likely to happen when they got there.

It seems there are people willing to go to these places so we can sit in 
our comfy chairs and try to work them.  They do so on their own 
responsibility.  They took the risk and great personal cost to do so.  
How are THEY going to feel if the entity is deleted and their work was 
for naught?

The time to "delete" an entity such as Scarborough is before it even gets 
created.  That way no one has to feel a personal loss because they did 
risk their lives and pocketbooks for nothing.

73, Zack W9SZ

On Thu, 10 May 2007, Charles Harpole wrote:

> 
> However, I have to ask if this set of rocks is worth the risks?  I know 
> mountain climbers die in their efforts and there are many other very 
> dangerous "sport" activities, but should we as a hobby sanction placing our 
> fellow hams into a place where the slightest bad weather, lightning strike, 
> or just a nasty fall would have been an easy-to-happen disaster.  How would 
> we feel as hams if the worst had happened there?  How much should we depend 
> on LUCK? I think anyone can go where ever they please, but not with the 
> sanction and official stamp of our great avocation.
> 
> Maybe it is time to re-think the DXCC status of this place?
> 
> Charles Harpole
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Ronald Loneker Sr.]

Talk about danger... Martti OH2BH, my brother in kidney tranplantation 
was along with the crew on BS7.  We must take large amounts of
anti-rejection medications and others  a few times a day or risk organ 
rejection which could lead to death. No whimpering out of Martti , but I
really would like to know how he kept all those pills dry. DX is!...  
73,  Ron 



Dan Zimmerman N3OX wrote:

N1DG; Los Angeles is a new one?  Hehehe.

I agree that there is no sense deleting an entity because of danger.
Yes, the BS7H guys put their lives on the line for a few silly radio
contacts, but I bet that it was an experience that they will never for
a second regret.

It's called an adventure.  If it had truly been a suicide mission, no
one would activate it.

- - - - - - -

I think there should never be a precedent set for deletion or
exclusion from the DXCC list because a particular entity is too hard
to activate, no matter what the reason.

I want more entities, not fewer.  More fun that way (point taken about
IOTA; haven't gone that way yet, but maybe after I work another 40
countries or so )

73,
Dan


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--
Ronald Loneker Sr. - KA2BZS
#1 DXCC - DXCC MIXED-CW-PHONE- 160M
9 Band DXCC - A1-OP
E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cwforever.com





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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Well, here's the thing:  As I recall (Bernie et al correct me if I'm wrong),
there was a lot of discussion about what to do about "countries" and the
very beginning of what became the DXCC 2000 rewrite.  And there was a school
of thought that strongly suggested starting everyone over on 1 Jan 2000 with
a clean slate, and along with that, a refreshed list of "countries" (we
hadn't switched to calling them "entities" yet... I think)

And please, no brickbats, I was NOT a member of that small but vocal group
that thought this!

But, just for fits and giggles... imagine doing just that.  Convince some
other group to sponsor a DXCC-like award, for contacts starting 1 Jan 2000
(even though the 21st century actually started 1 Jan 2001, but let's not go
into THAT one again either), and for this hypothetical award -- call it "DX
21" for the sake of argument -- issue a new list of entities, based on the
current DXCC active list (forget the deleteds), but applying current
criteria to each and every one of them, plus evaluating other possibile ones
that have been eliminated under recent rules changes.

Many won't survive.  BS7H certainly wouldn't.  What about Scotland, Wales,
and the rest of the non-England parts of the UK?  Desecheo?  Navassa?
Sable?  Ducie?

What about the "special" cases:  The Spratley's?  Do you keep the UN Hq?  If
so, what about the Council of Europe HQ?  The Vatican?  SMOM?  ITU Hq?  How
about the UN Vienna?

I could go on, but you get my drift.  Either way for many of these, stay or
go... at least apply the new "DX 21" rules consistently.  How will this
affect DX chasing?  To say nothing of little discussions like this thread...

I can understand all too well why no one wanted to undertake the controversy
that a change like this would have entailed.  But it's interesting to think
about!

73

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter
Dougherty
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:32 AM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


At 06:59 AM 05/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
>Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC
list.
>The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which
put
>it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
>affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid
90s.
>Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
>Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
>don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet
the
>criteria.

I don't think there's a solution to this that will please everybody.
I'd personally like to see the rules overhauled completely at some
point down the road, but how that could be accomplished I really
don't know. I'm not in favour of creating new ones by rule changes,
nor deleting/removing old ones by fiat either, but the mish-mash that
exists now is somewhat bizarre and could use a revamp at some point.

I'm definitely not in favour of mollycoddling DXers and DXpeditioners
by removing tough- or dangerous-to-activate entities just because
they're tough or dangerous to activate. Free will is truly a wonderful
concept.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Charles Gallo]

On 5/10/2007 Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:

> HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to re-think
> the DXCC status of this place?"



I actually have read the rules - and I think they are rather silly - I follow 
them, but, if I was running the  program, I'd add one simple one 

The entity must have a permanent human population - defined as having been 
continuously populated for more 6 months - after 6 months of no one living 
there, they are removed

Yeah - I know it would remove a LOT of entities from the list, but 

--  
73 de KG2V

For the Children - RKBA!

A rose by any other name would be "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[N4BAA - Jose Castillo]

NOT practical and is totally out of the question.
The current rules make DXCC a CHALLENGE...not a "GIVEN"!!!

On that note...we have several here associated with a "DX" 
club and they believe in pumping their chest over #1 honor 
roll.  #1 HR is obtainable by MANY hams as long as they live 
long enough AND the NEEDED entities are "ACTIVATED"...


Many needing that last onedid NOT get it!! But THIS 
DXPedition was NOT about eradicating the need for BS7 for 
everyone it was meant to put a very much needed entity 
on the air for a less than majority group.  For the most 
part, ANY ham who has a radio and a yagi at some height can 
work them all GIVEN enough timewhen there is a 
DXpedition like PETER ONE who is on for so long they call CQ 
endlessly without answer...SURE!!! EVERYONE can work them...


When an entity comes on like BS7 for a relatively SHORT 
period.FORGET ABOUT IT! I think it would be 
interesting to know how many stations (IF ANY) in 3 or 4 
land worked them without an AMP?  I know many who called for 
days on end without one, only to end up coming over here to 
work them.


No mal intent implied or suggestedbut the next time a 
BS7 comes on.I bet you there will be more amps fired up 
on the east coastIF NOTHING ELSE...it sure helps the HAM 
RADIO ECONOMY by having hams run out and purchase amps and 
YAGIS


VIVA LA QRO!!!

Jose - N4BAA



Charles Gallo wrote:


On 5/10/2007 Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:


HS0ZCW, who sometimes operates as K4VUD said "Maybe it is time to re-think
the DXCC status of this place?"




I actually have read the rules - and I think they are rather silly - I follow them, but, if I was running the  program, I'd add one simple one 


The entity must have a permanent human population - defined as having been 
continuously populated for more 6 months - after 6 months of no one living 
there, they are removed

Yeah - I know it would remove a LOT of entities from the list, but 

--  
73 de KG2V


For the Children - RKBA!

A rose by any other name would be "deadly thorn-bearing assault vegetation."



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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Bernie McClenny, W3UR]

I don't remember all the exact details of the DXCC 2000 rewrite.  What I do
remember was that K5UR, N4MM, K5VUF (now K5NX) and several others were on
the committee.  I do remember receiving the questionnaire, which I believe
was available to all DXers.  This was back around 1997 or 1998.  Other than
that I don't remember.

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
--
Now more than ever - you need The Daily DX and The Weekly DX - to keep up
with the DX news from around the globe!

Editor of - The Daily DX <-- two free weeks http://www.dailydx.com/order.htm
  - The Weekly DX <-- free sample
http://www.dailydx.com/weekly2.html
  - How's DX

http://www.dailydx.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Notarius
W3WN
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 18:00
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

Well, here's the thing:  As I recall (Bernie et al correct me if I'm wrong),
there was a lot of discussion about what to do about "countries" and the
very beginning of what became the DXCC 2000 rewrite.  And there was a school
of thought that strongly suggested starting everyone over on 1 Jan 2000 with
a clean slate, and along with that, a refreshed list of "countries" (we
hadn't switched to calling them "entities" yet... I think)

And please, no brickbats, I was NOT a member of that small but vocal group
that thought this!

But, just for fits and giggles... imagine doing just that.  Convince some
other group to sponsor a DXCC-like award, for contacts starting 1 Jan 2000
(even though the 21st century actually started 1 Jan 2001, but let's not go
into THAT one again either), and for this hypothetical award -- call it "DX
21" for the sake of argument -- issue a new list of entities, based on the
current DXCC active list (forget the deleteds), but applying current
criteria to each and every one of them, plus evaluating other possibile ones
that have been eliminated under recent rules changes.

Many won't survive.  BS7H certainly wouldn't.  What about Scotland, Wales,
and the rest of the non-England parts of the UK?  Desecheo?  Navassa?
Sable?  Ducie?

What about the "special" cases:  The Spratley's?  Do you keep the UN Hq?  If
so, what about the Council of Europe HQ?  The Vatican?  SMOM?  ITU Hq?  How
about the UN Vienna?

I could go on, but you get my drift.  Either way for many of these, stay or
go... at least apply the new "DX 21" rules consistently.  How will this
affect DX chasing?  To say nothing of little discussions like this thread...

I can understand all too well why no one wanted to undertake the controversy
that a change like this would have entailed.  But it's interesting to think
about!

73

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter
Dougherty
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:32 AM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


At 06:59 AM 05/10/2007, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
>Back to the one and only way to remove a current counter from the DXCC
list.
>The only way is if the said entity no longer meets the criteria in which
put
>it on the list to begin with.  Rules that are made up afterwards do not
>affect its status.  Remember BS7H was added to the list back in the mid
90s.
>Then afterwards in an effort to not have any others added to the list like
>Scarborough Reef the "100 meter high tide" rule was added.  Believe me you
>don't want to remove anything off the DXCC list, unless it does not meet
the
>criteria.

I don't think there's a solution to this that will please everybody.
I'd personally like to see the rules overhauled completely at some
point down the road, but how that could be accomplished I really
don't know. I'm not in favour of creating new ones by rule changes,
nor deleting/removing old ones by fiat either, but the mish-mash that
exists now is somewhat bizarre and could use a revamp at some point.

I'm definitely not in favour of mollycoddling DXers and DXpeditioners
by removing tough- or dangerous-to-activate entities just because
they're tough or dangerous to activate. Free will is truly a wonderful
concept.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Mome Z32ZM]

   OC Ron,
You finaly comme on mine.
This is something I been writing allmost 8 months a go, (I think subject like 
KH8ZM or so).
Then everyone go against me, but now  repeating mine questions, posible answers 
etc..NEVERMIND.

I think its about the time that DXAC members must seat-down and clear up the 
DXCC (delete OR add entities) for quite 
long period, OR the mess will continue?!?!?!

CU in the Z7 & Z9 pile-up's :)
All the best & Have nice day!
Stay Tuned & GL on SIX !!!
73  GL&DX!!!de: Mome - Z32ZM
  http://www.qsl.net/z32zm

- Original Message -
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:59 AM
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


> Well, here's the thing:
> Many won't survive.  BS7H certainly wouldn't.  What about Scotland, Wales,
> and the rest of the non-England parts of the UK?  Desecheo?  Navassa?
> Sable?  Ducie?
>
> What about the "special" cases:  The Spratley's?  Do you keep the UN Hq?  If
> so, what about the Council of Europe HQ?  The Vatican?  SMOM?  ITU Hq?  How
> about the UN Vienna?






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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Well Mome, the point I was trying to make was that any effort to re-do the
DXCC list -- something that I do NOT personally advocate, by the way -- over
from scratch will create just as much controversy as retaining the current
list; and possibly (probably) more.  [note:  that means that you two guys
over in GM, you know who you are, can quit throwing stuff at me, I was
speaking hypothetically!]

I was also trying to point out (in the part that got clipped out of the
reply) that many of the odd and unusual -- and suspect -- entities that
exist today could not come into being today under current rules.  So at
least there will be no more (although had the rules not changed, I could
argue for the inclusion of 4U1VIC; actually, I could argue either side of
that one, but it's now a moot point anyway)... and especially none created
due to phony IARU societies, which covers at least 2 of the entities added
since the DXCC 2000 rules went into effect.  'nuff said.

But, if you really want to chew on something, consider this:  Don Miller
W9WNV.  He sure did activate a whole bunch of new ones... only quite a few
never went on the books officially (or were removed after the fact) due to
lack of documentation.  Remember, there was only ONE operation that he
actually owned up to faking; quite a few were accepted, mainly his earlier
endeavors.  It was only his later ones, were suspicions of "cut corners"
came up, that were questioned.

What if... Don ever did come up with the paperwork to prove that some or all
of these "removed" entities weren't bogus, but were legit and he really did
operate from them?  How many "new ones" could be put back on the map?  How
many HR positions would change?

I don't think it will happen... the paperwork, if it ever existed, would be
over 30 years old, some possibly 40 or more.  But if you think about the
ramifications if something ever did turn up...

73



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mome Z32ZM
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:42 AM
To: DX Chat
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


   OC Ron,
You finaly comme on mine.
This is something I been writing allmost 8 months a go, (I think subject
like KH8ZM or so).
Then everyone go against me, but now  repeating mine questions, posible
answers etc..NEVERMIND.

I think its about the time that DXAC members must seat-down and clear up the
DXCC (delete OR add entities) for quite
long period, OR the mess will continue?!?!?!

CU in the Z7 & Z9 pile-up's :)
All the best & Have nice day!
Stay Tuned & GL on SIX !!!
73  GL&DX!!!de: Mome - Z32ZM
  http://www.qsl.net/z32zm

- Original Message -
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:59 AM
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts


> Well, here's the thing:
> Many won't survive.  BS7H certainly wouldn't.  What about Scotland, Wales,
> and the rest of the non-England parts of the UK?  Desecheo?  Navassa?
> Sable?  Ducie?
>
> What about the "special" cases:  The Spratley's?  Do you keep the UN Hq?
If
> so, what about the Council of Europe HQ?  The Vatican?  SMOM?  ITU Hq?
How
> about the UN Vienna?






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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H thoughts

[Zack Widup]

On Fri, 11 May 2007, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:

> Well Mome, the point I was trying to make was that any effort to re-do the
> DXCC list -- something that I do NOT personally advocate, by the way -- over
> from scratch will create just as much controversy as retaining the current
> list; and possibly (probably) more.  [note:  that means that you two guys
> over in GM, you know who you are, can quit throwing stuff at me, I was
> speaking hypothetically!]
> 

Hey, if someone wants to throw greenstamps, IRC's, or - better yet, 
expensive radios - at me, I won't turn them down!

73, Zack W9SZ



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[DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Garth]

BS7H QSO statistics have been posted on their website. Very interesting 
reading. Should make for some good conversation.

www.bs7h.com

Good DX & CU at Dayton

Garth, KW4MM

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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H LOTW

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

At 03:40 PM 6/8/2007, Kenneth Sobel wrote:


My two BS7H qsos are in the on-line log but not in LOTW.
My LOTW account shows that I entered the qso info but no qsl match.


See the DX-News archives - QSOs were uploaded for Donors only.

73 - Jim AD1C


--
Jim Reisert AD1C/0, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us



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[DX-CHAT] BS7H QSL Update

[Paul Pescitelli]

http://dx-is.com/news/

-- 
73 - PaulK4UJ
BS7H, FS, KP2, KP4, PJ6, PJ7,VP2E, ZF2UJ
==
http://www.dx-is.com  USA Spiderbeam Distributor
http://www.dx-is.org
WAP DX Cluster http://www.dx-is.org/cgi-bin/wap.cgi
Skype: dx.k4uj
==


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H on LoTW

[Garth]

Ok Guy & Gals
You might want to take a look at your LoTW account. Another batch of QSO's were 
uploaded last night. This included mine. 

This is my last one. My first DXCC counter was May, 1989 and the last was May, 
2007. 18 years for Top of Honor Roll. What next, start over?

I hope you all get yours confirmed quickly

73,
Garth, KW4MM

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[DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[John Maikisch]

THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I WAS 
VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD  NOT HAVE 
BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME. STILL, IT 
GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER ALL. 

JOHN - K2AZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO anywhere

[Charles Harpole]

The day prior to BS7H coming up, I had a pile up as HS0ZCW, using one freq 
split (no spread of callers).  I am sure most used my sig as a test to see 
how they may get into this part of the world and a few probably thot I was 
BS7H.  Anyway, the pile up was beyond imagination... Many more than I had as 
VU4AN/VU3CHE and as 9N7UD years ago.  There was the very real wall of sound.


I was hearing JAs, EUs, and NA all at once.  And the vast majority were of 
equal strength, about S7, and thus no one sig could be read.  Proportionally 
even more callers for BS7H leads me to say, I can not imagine how those ops 
can cope, even calling by numbers with a 10kc spread, for example.


Moral is lots of extra patience will have to be on hand on all sides for 
this one to get some contacts in the log.  A big GL to everyone.  73


Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. 
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H on 80M

[Don Greenbaum]

Guys, there is no antenna set up yet for 80...you must be working a slim. 

Don
N1DG BS7H webmaster

At 09:19 AM 4/30/2007, Charlie, W0YG wrote:
>They had a good signal into Colorado this morning.  I heard several Stateside 
>stations from CA to MN get through so they were being heard all over the 
>western US.  I hope they have as good a signal on 160M because now I think we 
>stand a chance of hearing them on this band.  It will probably be late in the 
>DXpedition before they try TOP though. 
> 
>We have also been able to hear them easily on 20 and 17M so prop seems to 
>favor this area.  Haven't listened for them on 40M yet.
> 
>73,
> 
>Charlie, W0YG..>>
>
>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems 
>http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
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>
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Don Greenbaum 
Aurum Telemedia Co. 
27 Pill Hill Lane, Duxbury, MA 02332 
phone: 781 934 5534 
http://www.aurumtel.com 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H on 80M

[Charlie, W0YG]

WFWL!!!

On 4/30/07, Don Greenbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Guys, there is no antenna set up yet for 80...you must be working a
slim.

Don
N1DG BS7H webmaster

At 09:19 AM 4/30/2007, Charlie, W0YG wrote:
>They had a good signal into Colorado this morning.  I heard several
Stateside stations from CA to MN get through so they were being heard all
over the western US.  I hope they have as good a signal on 160M because now
I think we stand a chance of hearing them on this band.  It will probably be
late in the DXpedition before they try TOP though.
>
>We have also been able to hear them easily on 20 and 17M so prop seems to
favor this area.  Haven't listened for them on 40M yet.
>
>73,
>
>Charlie, W0YG..>>
>
>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
>http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
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>
>This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
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Don Greenbaum
Aurum Telemedia Co.
27 Pill Hill Lane, Duxbury, MA 02332
phone: 781 934 5534
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Re: Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H

[Osten B Magnusson]

If you are using VE7CC cluster program it asks you
for LoTW update (telling you are still using it) a couple
of times each week. When you get the red message
click on it an it will tell VE7CC and the message turns 
to green. For those not using the VE7CC-program the

information comes from HB9BZA.

73/DX de Osten  SM5DQC[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: "Art RX9TX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] +BS7H



Hello Tom,

TK> I logged into LoTW & found the following info;
TK> Last upload for BS7H: 2004-03-17 05:32:49Z
TK> So the VE7CC is adding the + designator from the previous operation.

I continue to see the + designator in the VE7CC postings for BS7H.  Does 
this have any significance with regard to their intentions to upload to 
LOTW?


It  is  not  VE7CC  who  is  adding  the  +, but the HB9BZA, who keeps
updating  the  LoTW users list. Cluster s/w adds the + if spotted call
is shown in that lists. See http://www.hb9bza.net/lotw

I  talked  to Robert about removing those whose calls do not appear in
the  users logs, say if last QSO date uploaded to LoTW is older that 2
years.  Robert did not seem to like the idea, but I believe this could
be revised.


--
73...Art RX9TX


http://rx9tx.qrz.ru




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.

They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.

Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
shot on, say, 40m.

BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.

21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
good job working the propagation...

Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.

2.5 times  as many people got only one QSO as who managed to get two.
2 times as many people managed to get 2 QSO's as got 3.  This includes
*all* regions.

Whoever got 24... wow.

73,
Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Mark Robinson]

quote BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more 
QSO's

than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal end  quote


How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate 
now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his contact 
count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how many Zone 5 
and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


A friend of mine who runs a big contest station thought that he would be in 
and out but spent 16 hours before he worked BS7H and he has stacked mono 
banders for 20m.


There was no JA wall as far as I was concerned just very limited propagation 
times and too many stations trying to call in the very limited open band 
times.




Mark N1UK G3ZZM




- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.

They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.

Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
shot on, say, 40m.

BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.

21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
good job working the propagation...

Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.

2.5 times  as many people got only one QSO as who managed to get two.
2 times as many people managed to get 2 QSO's as got 3.  This includes
*all* regions.

Whoever got 24... wow.

73,
Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate
now.

That might be right, but I don't think it's *too* inaccurate.  I think
the overall situation is still that the numbers more or less match up
here.

If you want to do a sample, just type random 1x2 calls into qrz and
see if the number matches.

I just ran n1aa through n0ad... maybe 10% of 'em were not in their call areas.

So stuff 400 more qso's into zone 3, maximum.

Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[N4BAA - Jose Castillo]

Mark,

I have to agree and am very sure you are correct regarding 
how they figured the zones.  Even so, I think the percentage 
may be smaller than we think in the grand scheme of things. 
 Not sure we will ever know.


In my opinion, propagation was better than many thought it 
would be actually.  I have a 42 foot boom 5L 20M yagi at 75 
feet and BS7H was in every morning here in Extreme Eastern 
Va.  Some mornings they were 10 over S9, some mornings they 
were only S4, but still workable.


Unfortunately, there was an overwhelming desire for this 
DXPedition to significantly "work down" the "need" for this 
entity, when in fact that just wasn't realistic given the 
amount of time they were there and the physical restrictions 
that prohibit elaborate antenna systems.  2L yagi some 12 
feet off the water from 1/2 way around the world is a pretty 
good hurdle to overcome


So, the reality of this whole DXPedition was that it was 
undertaken to "break the ice" of this desolate location 
"politically" for possible future operations...and to give 
some amateurs the "opportunity" to work the rarest DXCC 
entity currently on the list.


I too, know those with HUGE antenna systems, stacked arrays, 
and super legal amps who had monumental problems working 
them.  I also know those, even here locally, that worked 
them on both modes withing 10 minutes.  Additionally, one 
station here in Va Bch actually worked them barefoot with 
his wide spaced 3 element yagi at 100 feet.  Yes! He 
happened to be RIGHT THERE when they called CQ the first 
time...but by golly he is in the log! Amazing actually.


My point here is..they surely did not help themselves by 
listening up in excess of 70 Khz...and NOT following their 
laid out band plans for working NA...or answering stations 
who called out of turn or even from the WRONG 
CONTINENTbut that will always be a fact of this hobby 
for ever more...unfortunately...


Finally, if you heard something you did not like...i/e 
stations insistent on announcing LID...or what 
ever.Don't fall victim to that trapand we should all 
work on developing OPERATOR SKILLS!.


You will NEVER BEAT a station/operator with a Big Antenna 
System AND a "Talent Package"!!!   Given the 
choice, I will take the "Talent package" (operating skill) 
over big antenna any day! For those who have both...You are 
the minority.  For those who DO NOT have both Operator Skill 
and huge antenna systems...you DO have a say so about 
obtaining 50% of those two...and 50% will give you far 
better chance at bagging that rare one the next time than 
NOT having it!


For those who were successful with BS7H!! CONGRATS!!

for those who did not get in their log.

Be ready next time...it won't be any easier!


73
Jose - N4BAA



Mark Robinson wrote:
quote BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more 
QSO's

than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal end  quote


How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate 
now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his 
contact count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how 
many Zone 5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


A friend of mine who runs a big contest station thought that he would be 
in and out but spent 16 hours before he worked BS7H and he has stacked 
mono banders for 20m.


There was no JA wall as far as I was concerned just very limited 
propagation times and too many stations trying to call in the very 
limited open band times.




Mark N1UK G3ZZM




- Original Message - From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.

They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.

Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
shot on, say, 40m.

BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.

21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
good job working the propagation...

Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.

2.5 times  as many people got only one QSO as who managed to get two.
2 times as many people managed to get 2 QSO's as got 3.  This includes
*all* regions.

Whoever got 24... wow.

73,
Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Mark Robinson]

Good point but I figured any zone 4 or 5 operating in zone 3 had a much 
better chance of working him and any zone 3's in zone 4 or 5 had a much 
lower chance, so this would skew the figures somewhat and tend to dilute the 
zone 3 number down. I guess that I am surprised by the figures but maybe the 
answer is that it was difficult from any place in the USA and only those 
stations with decent antennas worked him. Those stations are equally placed 
around the USA.


Total unique callsigns worked of 17,884 seems pretty low considering the 
pileups and a 24 hour operation using 4 stations. Mind you it isn't easy to 
set up a station on a rock in the blistering heat. So I am certainly not 
knocking the operation. After all they went there and made it happen





Mark N1UK


- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate
now.

That might be right, but I don't think it's *too* inaccurate.  I think
the overall situation is still that the numbers more or less match up
here.

If you want to do a sample, just type random 1x2 calls into qrz and
see if the number matches.

I just ran n1aa through n0ad... maybe 10% of 'em were not in their call 
areas.


So stuff 400 more qso's into zone 3, maximum.

Dan


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Don Greenbaum]

Mark:

I ran the stats based on US zones.  Yes, not all W7s live in 7 land, but I 
think as many 6s live in 4 land as 4s live in 6 land.

No said the stats I posted were 100% accurate, but they are statistically 
accurate if not perfect.

hey, this is a hobby...

Don
N1DG, BS7H webmaster

At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, you wrote:
>quote BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
>than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal end  quote
>
>
>How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate now. 
>My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his contact count as 
>a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how many Zone 5 and Zone 4 
>calls are resident in Zone 3?
>
>A friend of mine who runs a big contest station thought that he would be in 
>and out but spent 16 hours before he worked BS7H and he has stacked mono 
>banders for 20m.
>
>There was no JA wall as far as I was concerned just very limited propagation 
>times and too many stations trying to call in the very limited open band times.
>
>
>
>Mark N1UK G3ZZM
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message - From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 8:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats
>
>
>>This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.
>>
>>They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.
>>
>>Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
>>total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
>>shot on, say, 40m.
>>
>>BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
>>than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.
>>
>>21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
>>good job working the propagation...
>>
>>Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
>>from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.
>>
>>2.5 times  as many people got only one QSO as who managed to get two.
>>2 times as many people managed to get 2 QSO's as got 3.  This includes
>>*all* regions.
>>
>>Whoever got 24... wow.
>>
>>73,
>>Dan
>>
>>
>>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>>
>>To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
>>
>>This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
>
>
>
>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
>To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
>
>This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org


Don Greenbaum 
Aurum Telemedia Co. 
27 Pill Hill Lane, Duxbury, MA 02332 
phone: 781 934 5534 
<http://www.aurumtel.com>http://www.aurumtel.com 





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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Mark Robinson]

Good comments Jose,

I have no sour grapes. I didn't figure on working them but had fun trying. I 
made a couple of operating errors which may have cost me a chance but I 
learnt in the progress and I did get to work the slim on 30m hi hi




Mark N1UK G3ZZM

- Original Message - 
From: "N4BAA - Jose Castillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



Mark,

I have to agree and am very sure you are correct regarding how they 
figured the zones.  Even so, I think the percentage may be smaller than we 
think in the grand scheme of things. Not sure we will ever know.


In my opinion, propagation was better than many thought it would be 
actually.  I have a 42 foot boom 5L 20M yagi at 75 feet and BS7H was in 
every morning here in Extreme Eastern Va.  Some mornings they were 10 over 
S9, some mornings they were only S4, but still workable.


Unfortunately, there was an overwhelming desire for this DXPedition to 
significantly "work down" the "need" for this entity, when in fact that 
just wasn't realistic given the amount of time they were there and the 
physical restrictions that prohibit elaborate antenna systems.  2L yagi 
some 12 feet off the water from 1/2 way around the world is a pretty good 
hurdle to overcome


So, the reality of this whole DXPedition was that it was undertaken to 
"break the ice" of this desolate location "politically" for possible 
future operations...and to give some amateurs the "opportunity" to work 
the rarest DXCC entity currently on the list.


I too, know those with HUGE antenna systems, stacked arrays, and super 
legal amps who had monumental problems working them.  I also know those, 
even here locally, that worked them on both modes withing 10 minutes. 
Additionally, one station here in Va Bch actually worked them barefoot 
with his wide spaced 3 element yagi at 100 feet.  Yes! He happened to be 
RIGHT THERE when they called CQ the first time...but by golly he is in the 
log! Amazing actually.


My point here is..they surely did not help themselves by listening up in 
excess of 70 Khz...and NOT following their laid out band plans for working 
NA...or answering stations who called out of turn or even from the WRONG 
CONTINENTbut that will always be a fact of this hobby for ever 
more...unfortunately...


Finally, if you heard something you did not like...i/e stations insistent 
on announcing LID...or what ever.Don't fall victim to that trapand 
we should all work on developing OPERATOR SKILLS!.


You will NEVER BEAT a station/operator with a Big Antenna System AND a 
"Talent Package"!!!   Given the choice, I will take the "Talent 
package" (operating skill) over big antenna any day! For those who have 
both...You are the minority.  For those who DO NOT have both Operator 
Skill and huge antenna systems...you DO have a say so about obtaining 50% 
of those two...and 50% will give you far better chance at bagging that 
rare one the next time than NOT having it!


For those who were successful with BS7H!! CONGRATS!!

for those who did not get in their log.

Be ready next time...it won't be any easier!


73
Jose - N4BAA



Mark Robinson wrote:
quote BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more 
QSO's

than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal end  quote


How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate 
now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his contact 
count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how many Zone 
5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


A friend of mine who runs a big contest station thought that he would be 
in and out but spent 16 hours before he worked BS7H and he has stacked 
mono banders for 20m.


There was no JA wall as far as I was concerned just very limited 
propagation times and too many stations trying to call in the very 
limited open band times.




Mark N1UK G3ZZM




- Original Message - From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.

They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.

Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
shot on, say, 40m.

BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.

21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
good job working the propagation...

Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.

2.5 times  as many people got only on

Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Mark Robinson]

yes it is a hobby and I had fun trying to work the BS7H - thanks for a fine 
dxpedition under difficult conditions.


Mark N1UK


- Original Message - 
From: "Don Greenbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats




Mark:

I ran the stats based on US zones.  Yes, not all W7s live in 7 land, but I 
think as many 6s live in 4 land as 4s live in 6 land.


No said the stats I posted were 100% accurate, but they are statistically 
accurate if not perfect.


hey, this is a hobby...

Don
N1DG, BS7H webmaster

At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, you wrote:
quote BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more 
QSO's

than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal end  quote


How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate 
now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his contact 
count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how many Zone 
5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


A friend of mine who runs a big contest station thought that he would be 
in and out but spent 16 hours before he worked BS7H and he has stacked 
mono banders for 20m.


There was no JA wall as far as I was concerned just very limited 
propagation times and too many stations trying to call in the very limited 
open band times.




Mark N1UK G3ZZM




- Original Message - From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



This throws a lot of whining into sharp perspective.

They didn't work the U.S. enough?  We're second only to JA.

Totally impenetrable JA wall?  JA was only 900 hams ahead of the U.S.
total.  Granted they had 3x the QSO's but who around here had a real
shot on, say, 40m.

BS7H impossible from the east coast?  Zone 3 only had 600 more QSO's
than zone 4 and zone 5, which were equal.

21kqso to Asia, 16kqso to EU, 7kqso to NA... sounds like they did a
good job working the propagation...

Lots of selfish hams stealing away the chance for people to get a QSO
from BS7H by working them over and over again?  I don't think so.

2.5 times  as many people got only one QSO as who managed to get two.
2 times as many people managed to get 2 QSO's as got 3.  This includes
*all* regions.

Whoever got 24... wow.

73,
Dan


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Don Greenbaum
Aurum Telemedia Co.
27 Pill Hill Lane, Duxbury, MA 02332
phone: 781 934 5534
<http://www.aurumtel.com>http://www.aurumtel.com







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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, Mark Robinson wrote:

How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too 
accurate now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - 
did his contact count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I 
wonder how many Zone 5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


Yes, by number in the call.  One hopes that the number of 
"out-of-zone" callsigns balance each other out.  I.e. for every W6 
who lives in Zone 5, there is a W1 somewhere who lives in Zone 3.


73 - Jim AD1C


--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, Mark Robinson wrote:

How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too 
accurate now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - 
did his contact count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I 
wonder how many Zone 5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


Maybe in a few weeks (no time now), I'll try to identify the state 
for each USA callsign that was worked, and see how that changes the stats.


Still it's a hobby.  The numbers aren't perfect, but they give you a 
general idea of where things are at.


73 - Jim AD1C


--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us



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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Mark Robinson]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, 17 May, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats



At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, Mark Robinson wrote:

How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too accurate 
now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - did his contact 
count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I wonder how many Zone 
5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Maybe in a few weeks (no time now), I'll try to identify the state for 
each USA callsign that was worked, and see how that changes the stats.


Still it's a hobby.  The numbers aren't perfect, but they give you a 
general idea of where things are at.


73 - Jim AD1C

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Yes it would be interesting to see if out of area hams skewed the data much 
but then the answer may be that there wasn't much of an advantage in 
operating from the west coast after all. The grass is always 
greener.


Mark N1UK







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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Barry]

Jim Reisert AD1C wrote:

At 09:02 PM 5/17/2007, Mark Robinson wrote:

How did they figure the US zones - by call sign which isn't too 
accurate now. My friend  a W4 worked BS7H but he lives in 9 land - 
did his contact count as a 4 land contact - I am sure that it did. I 
wonder how many Zone 5 and Zone 4 calls are resident in Zone 3?


Yes, by number in the call.  One hopes that the number of 
"out-of-zone" callsigns balance each other out.  I.e. for every W6 who 
lives in Zone 5, there is a W1 somewhere who lives in Zone 3.


73 - Jim AD1C


I believe it's much more likely that a W1/2 lives in zone 3 than W6/7 in 
zone 5.  The population trend in the US has been flight from the NE to 
the SW for a number of years now.

Barry W2UP

--

Barry Kutner, W2UP 
Newtown, PA 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

I wrote some code to assign "states" to USA calls from FCC database.

Here are the "old" and "new" numbers for CQ Zones 3-5

  oldnew
Zone 3:  2673   2765
Zone 4:  2070   2241
Zone 5:  2017   1747

TOTAL:   6760   6753

It appears that a lot of calls in "Zone 5" really are NOT.

There's a difference of 7 QSOs, but I had fixed some busted calls in the log
file I sent to Don, and did not do it again this time.

73 - Jim AD1C


--
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USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H QSO Stats

[Dan Zimmerman N3OX]

Looks like I was off by 5%... I figured 10% of "Zone 5 calls" weren't
actually in Zone 5.

Still a pretty good distribution across N.A.


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[DX-CHAT] BS7H- why the fuss?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Obviously, the upload to LOTW was just a gesture. All qsos will have to be 
uploaded eventually, remember they received a Colvin award, and that is part of 
the agreement. They also must agree that ARRL can have the logs and confirm 
contacts, so if some big controversey were to errupt qsos can be confirmed by 
ARRL.. I don't think they are doing something soley for donors, they are just 
doing it sooner for donors.
73, Duane, WV2B


"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it."- 
Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H on LoTW

[Bill Hawkins]

Whew! My one and only BS7H qso was there!
It was my last one also. My 1st was in 1955.
After finishing up 12 meters, I think I might try 160M.
I don't have time to start over :-)
Bill W5EC


  Ok Guy & Gals
  You might want to take a look at your LoTW account. Another batch of QSO's 
were uploaded last night. This included mine. 

  This is my last one. My first DXCC counter was May, 1989 and the last was 
May, 2007. 18 years for Top of Honor Roll. What next, start over?

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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Dave AA6YQ]

He is 55 near Boston on short path. No copy on long path.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Maikisch
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:44 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I
WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD
NOT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME.
STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER
ALL.

JOHN - K2AZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Charles Harpole]

Another reason for DX to call by numbers instead of geographical area..
Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: "Dave AA6YQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:51:16 -0400

He is 55 near Boston on short path. No copy on long path.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Maikisch
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:44 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I
WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD
NOT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME.
STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER
ALL.

JOHN - K2AZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[harris_ruben]

I saw that  Boston callout. No way, Jose.

My station -- not too puny --had ZERO copy when 
that Boston call came out. Pure BS IMO.
The best I heard 'em was 52. Our Italian friends 
played cops on 20 meters. Someone even yelled at 
ME (when I was working split at 14201) yelling 
directly at ME! (on the DX freq 14185) "N2ERN - 
working ones" -- long after they were calling 
twos. What lids!!! You could just puke! At least 
I was in the split range!!


I'll still be in there, but my band is 18 -- and 
I expect (hope) to work 'em there.



I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS 
is worse than ever -- and no one can blame the US 
lids for it!!! Call by numbers is fine -- as long 
as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.


Shame on the world's hams!!

N2ERN



Another reason for DX to call by numbers instead of geographical area..
Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: "Dave AA6YQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:51:16 -0400

He is 55 near Boston on short path. No copy on long path.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Maikisch
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:44 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I
WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD
NOT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME.
STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER
ALL.

JOHN - K2AZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Peter Dougherty]

I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.


Shame on the world's hams!!


I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and 
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard 
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any 
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.


I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams' 
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs, 
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least 
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so 
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much 
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely 
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA, 
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.


On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA 
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day 
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not 
too worried. Yet .


I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a 
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the 
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are 
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," and hold to it.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 





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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Dave AA6YQ]

Because you couldn't hear them with your "not too puny" station in New
Jersey, my 55 report from Boston was "Pure BS"? You have a bit to learn
about propagation, as well as manners.

And while you're at it, take a deep breath. You'll find it easier to work
them if can you keep your wits about you.

   73,

  Dave, AA6YQ



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of harris_ruben
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:56 PM
To: dx-chat List
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


I saw that  Boston callout. No way, Jose.

My station -- not too puny --had ZERO copy when
that Boston call came out. Pure BS IMO.
The best I heard 'em was 52. Our Italian friends
played cops on 20 meters. Someone even yelled at
ME (when I was working split at 14201) yelling
directly at ME! (on the DX freq 14185) "N2ERN -
working ones" -- long after they were calling
twos. What lids!!! You could just puke! At least
I was in the split range!!

I'll still be in there, but my band is 18 -- and
I expect (hope) to work 'em there.


I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS
is worse than ever -- and no one can blame the US
lids for it!!! Call by numbers is fine -- as long
as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.

Shame on the world's hams!!

N2ERN


>Another reason for DX to call by numbers instead of geographical area..
>Charles Harpole
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>From: "Dave AA6YQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: 
>>Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
>>Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:51:16 -0400
>>
>>He is 55 near Boston on short path. No copy on long path.
>>
>>73,
>>
>>Dave, AA6YQ
>>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Maikisch
>>Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:44 PM
>>To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
>>Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
>>
>>
>>THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. I
>>WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD
>>NOT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT TIME.
>>STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER
>>ALL.
>>
>>JOHN - K2AZ
>>
>>
>>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
>>http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>>
>>To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
>>
>>This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
>>http://njdxa.org
>>
>>
>>Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
>>http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>>
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>>
>>This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
>>http://njdxa.org
>
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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Dave AA6YQ]

Punishing all operators from a particular region because a few misbehave
just increases the frustation level and puts more QRM on the DX frequency.
Its unfortunate that we must deal with such miscreants, but every region has
their share. Like bad weather, they're always around somewhere. With the
first day of a DXPedition to a rare entity falling on a weekend, the result
is highly predictable.

In "the Complete DXer", Bob W9KNI says "But sometimes, the experienced DX'er
gets into a situation where it quickly becomes obvious that there is no hope
of a QSO. And it is then the frustrated DX'er shows the world, or at least
himself, what kind of person he is. Does he QSY, or does he cause needless
or even intentional QRM?" Does he update the propagation forecasts and check
the NCDXF beacons, or does he steam up the hill with beady eyes blazing in
search of anyone who'll listen to his latest rendition of "ain't it awful?".

DX is.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter
Dougherty
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 11:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dx-chat List
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA



>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams'
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs,
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA,
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.

On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not
too worried. Yet .

I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," and hold to it.



Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT




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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Michael W Elliott]

Things will settle down 

give it a few days

actually they are smart working the JA, EUs first

give them something upfront and propagation will be even better for us

This morning I was copying BS7H 579 short path here in Missouri 

its only gonna get better 

Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and 
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard 
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any 
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams' 
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs, 
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least 
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so 
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much 
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely 
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA, 
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.

On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA 
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day 
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not 
too worried. Yet .

I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a 
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the 
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are 
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," and hold to it.



Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 




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Michael W. Elliott, CISSP 
(Certified Information Security Specialist Professional)
THE INSIDE ADVANTAGE -
RETIREMENT - LEISURE, REST and ONLY ELECTRONIC MAIL PAYMENTS
Servant to Bridgett, Collin and all my Creditors
St. Louis County Missouri

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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Peter Dougherty]

At 11:53 PM 04/29/2007, Dave AA6YQ wrote:

Punishing all operators from a particular region because a few misbehave
just increases the frustation level and puts more QRM on the DX frequency.


That's the risk, for sure. But conversely, what can a DX operation do 
when their pileups are completely out of control (in a manner not of 
the DX's doing)? As ops become increasingly desperate, it can only 
spiral worse unless the guys at the pointy end do something. What can 
they do is what I'm curious about.


With the first day of a DXPedition to a rare entity falling on a 
weekend, the result is highly predictable.


Here's hoping a lot of these troublemakers will be going to work 
tomorrow morning .



In "the Complete DXer", Bob W9KNI says "But sometimes, the experienced DX'er
gets into a situation where it quickly becomes obvious that there is no hope
of a QSO. And it is then the frustrated DX'er shows the world, or at least
himself, what kind of person he is.


After 5 hours on-and-off today I just gave up, visited a friend and 
helped out the XYL.



search of anyone who'll listen to his latest rendition of "ain't it awful?".


After days like this, though, sometimes venting helps. I suspect BS7 
and P5 will always be this way (the only things to bring everybody 
out of the woodwork). It's kind of a shame that these two are 
extremely difficult from NA. The only saving grace is if Navassa ever 
comes up we're in the best position over here.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 





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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Dave AA6YQ]

>>>AA6YQ comments below

-Original Message-
From: Peter Dougherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dx-chat List
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


At 11:53 PM 04/29/2007, Dave AA6YQ wrote:

>Punishing all operators from a particular region because a few misbehave
>just increases the frustation level and puts more QRM on the DX frequency.

That's the risk, for sure. But conversely, what can a DX operation do
when their pileups are completely out of control (in a manner not of
the DX's doing)? As ops become increasingly desperate, it can only
spiral worse unless the guys at the pointy end do something. What can
they do is what I'm curious about.

>>>QSY. Good DXers will find them quickly; those making QRM and whining will
generally stay put until someone spots the new frequency, at which point the
DX station QSYs again.

>With the first day of a DXPedition to a rare entity falling on a
>weekend, the result is highly predictable.

Here's hoping a lot of these troublemakers will be going to work
tomorrow morning .

>In "the Complete DXer", Bob W9KNI says "But sometimes, the experienced
DX'er
>gets into a situation where it quickly becomes obvious that there is no
hope
>of a QSO. And it is then the frustrated DX'er shows the world, or at least
>himself, what kind of person he is.

After 5 hours on-and-off today I just gave up, visited a friend and
helped out the XYL.

>search of anyone who'll listen to his latest rendition of "ain't it
awful?".

After days like this, though, sometimes venting helps.

>>>Find a hole in the ground and yell into it. Audio propagation being what
it is, you're unlikely to infect another DXer.

I suspect BS7 and P5 will always be this way (the only things to bring
everybody
out of the woodwork). It's kind of a shame that these two are
extremely difficult from NA. The only saving grace is if Navassa ever
comes up we're in the best position over here.

>>>Every DXCC entity without a permanent population is extremely difficult
from somewhere. US DXers gorged on KP5 not too long ago; what our JA friends
heard was "the east coast wall".

73,

Dave, AA6YQ




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Laurent Ferracci]

Punishing all operators from a particular region because a few misbehave
just increases the frustation level and puts more QRM on the DX 
frequency.


Thanks for us, europeans. I guess that with BS7H now on, we'd better be 
prepared to listen to the US crybabies.


That's the risk, for sure. But conversely, what can a DX operation do 
when their pileups are completely out of control


I don't agree on this point: Under the QRM, what i heard yesterday was a 
rather nicely controled pileup. The op (I8NHJ, the spotters said) seemed 
to work easily and with a good rythm.


After 5 hours on-and-off today I just gave up, visited a friend and 
helped out the XYL.


Well at 19Z the propagation was down, certainly closed for the major 
part of Europe. I could still hear them 53 and listened to them and the 
pileup while eating a pizza (TNX YL) in front of the radio. I suddenly 
heard a 59 from the pileup, jumped in and got them !


It was my lucky day, beacuse i have to admit that i had hard times, a 
few hours before, fo find the QSX between 200 and 230 ! So i didn't call 
that much, maybe 10 times ?



It's kind of a shame that these two are extremely difficult from NA.


It's a shame that N8S was so difficult from EU etc etc..

--
Laurent Ferracci, F1JKJ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[DAVE WHITE]

Guys, unfortunately this has become the situation here in Europe. .
   
  I really don't know where the mass of deliberate QRM comes from, though 
mostly it seem to be from east or south-east into England so could come from 
anywhere in Europe.  Certainly a lot of the undisciplined cretins seem to be 
Italians, though I'd certainly not state that it's ALL from Italians, nor that 
ALL Italians are bad operators. Many a time I hear a pileup, and the DX is 
asking for (say) "Alpha Bravo Charlie ONLY", but listening through the QSX 
spread I still hear so many without ANY of those letters in the call still 
shouting away.  OK, maybe we can all mis-time a call and double with the DX, 
but surely most simply aren't listening.
   
  Just the other day JT1Y told everyone to QRX, then asked for United Kingdom 
stations only - and all the deliberate QRM started immediately:  whistling, 
keying, white noise, swearing, blowing raspberries etc.  It's just comical.
  
I don't know how to explain why some people would deliberately send QRM over a 
DXpedition.  Perhaps patience is a lost art.  Perhaps self discipline is a lost 
art. Certainly here in the UK, respect for other human beings is now a lost 
art, particularly in the cities where gangs of feral youths terrorise 
neighbourhoods, vandalise anything in sight and stab of shoot each other.  
Education is long dead in this country and has been for a generation thanks to 
idiot politicians, do-gooders and political correctness - and maybe the results 
of this failure are making their way across society.
   
  Perhaps the activities of IT9RYH and IK1JUO have got the Italians an even 
worse reputation and have caused everyone's patience to wear thin, but that 
doesn't excuse what went on yesterday.
   
  I';d agree that Sourthern Europe probably has good propagation to BS7 most of 
the time - they seem to have good propagation everywhere most of the time - 
though here in Northern Europe propagation windows are much shorter.  That was 
particularly pronounced with N8S.  I'd also agree that an expedition should 
give time to difficult-to-reach parts of the world, but the way things are at 
the moment, if BS7H had called for North America only yesterday, then there 
would probably have been bedlam.
   
  Dave G0OIL
   
  
Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and 
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard 
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any 
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams' 
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs, 
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least 
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so 
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much 
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely 
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA, 
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.

On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA 
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day 
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not 
too worried. Yet .

I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a 
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the 
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are 
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," and hold to it.



Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Osten B Magnusson]

 
The deliberate QRM started to be real bad when the worldwide DX-clusters came 
up on Internet. it wasn't difficult to work 
BS7H in 1994 (not OK for DXCC), 1995 and 1997. Close down all DX-clusters and 
working DX will again be a pleasure! 

73/DX de Osten SM5DQC   on the air working DX since 1962 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: DAVE WHITE 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; dx-chat List 
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


  Guys, unfortunately this has become the situation here in Europe. .

  I really don't know where the mass of deliberate QRM comes from, though 
mostly it seem to be from east or south-east into England so could come from 
anywhere in Europe.  Certainly a lot of the undisciplined cretins seem to be 
Italians, though I'd certainly not state that it's ALL from Italians, nor that 
ALL Italians are bad operators. Many a time I hear a pileup, and the DX is 
asking for (say) "Alpha Bravo Charlie ONLY", but listening through the QSX 
spread I still hear so many without ANY of those letters in the call still 
shouting away.  OK, maybe we can all mis-time a call and double with the DX, 
but surely most simply aren't listening.

  Just the other day JT1Y told everyone to QRX, then asked for United Kingdom 
stations only - and all the deliberate QRM started immediately:  whistling, 
keying, white noise, swearing, blowing raspberries etc.  It's just comical.

  I don't know how to explain why some people would deliberately send QRM over 
a DXpedition.  Perhaps patience is a lost art.  Perhaps self discipline is a 
lost art. Certainly here in the UK, respect for other human beings is now a 
lost art, particularly in the cities where gangs of feral youths terrorise 
neighbourhoods, vandalise anything in sight and stab of shoot each other.  
Education is long dead in this country and has been for a generation thanks to 
idiot politicians, do-gooders and political correctness - and maybe the results 
of this failure are making their way across society.

  Perhaps the activities of IT9RYH and IK1JUO have got the Italians an even 
worse reputation and have caused everyone's patience to wear thin, but that 
doesn't excuse what went on yesterday.

  I';d agree that Sourthern Europe probably has good propagation to BS7 most of 
the time - they seem to have good propagation everywhere most of the time - 
though here in Northern Europe propagation windows are much shorter.  That was 
particularly pronounced with N8S.  I'd also agree that an expedition should 
give time to difficult-to-reach parts of the world, but the way things are at 
the moment, if BS7H had called for North America only yesterday, then there 
would probably have been bedlam.

  Dave G0OIL


  Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and 
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard 
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any 
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams' 
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs, 
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least 
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so 
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much 
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely 
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA, 
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.

On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA 
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day 
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not 
too worried. Yet .

I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a 
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the 
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are 
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," and hold to it.



Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 




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  Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, proble

RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Dave AA6YQ]

Each new advance
brings those who would misuse it.
Seek their repair,
for time will not run backwards.

73,

  Dave, AA6YQ


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Osten B Magnusson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
dx-chat List
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA



The deliberate QRM started to be real bad when the worldwide DX-clusters
came up on Internet. it wasn't difficult to work
BS7H in 1994 (not OK for DXCC), 1995 and 1997. Close down all DX-clusters
and working DX will again be a pleasure!

73/DX de Osten SM5DQC   on the air working DX since 1962
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message -
  From: DAVE WHITE
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; dx-chat List
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


  Guys, unfortunately this has become the situation here in Europe. .

  I really don't know where the mass of deliberate QRM comes from, though
mostly it seem to be from east or south-east into England so could come from
anywhere in Europe.  Certainly a lot of the undisciplined cretins seem to be
Italians, though I'd certainly not state that it's ALL from Italians, nor
that ALL Italians are bad operators. Many a time I hear a pileup, and the DX
is asking for (say) "Alpha Bravo Charlie ONLY", but listening through the
QSX spread I still hear so many without ANY of those letters in the call
still shouting away.  OK, maybe we can all mis-time a call and double with
the DX, but surely most simply aren't listening.

  Just the other day JT1Y told everyone to QRX, then asked for United
Kingdom stations only - and all the deliberate QRM started immediately:
whistling, keying, white noise, swearing, blowing raspberries etc.  It's
just comical.

  I don't know how to explain why some people would deliberately send QRM
over a DXpedition.  Perhaps patience is a lost art.  Perhaps self discipline
is a lost art. Certainly here in the UK, respect for other human beings is
now a lost art, particularly in the cities where gangs of feral youths
terrorise neighbourhoods, vandalise anything in sight and stab of shoot each
other.  Education is long dead in this country and has been for a generation
thanks to idiot politicians, do-gooders and political correctness - and
maybe the results of this failure are making their way across society.

  Perhaps the activities of IT9RYH and IK1JUO have got the Italians an even
worse reputation and have caused everyone's patience to wear thin, but that
doesn't excuse what went on yesterday.

  I';d agree that Sourthern Europe probably has good propagation to BS7 most
of the time - they seem to have good propagation everywhere most of the
time - though here in Northern Europe propagation windows are much shorter.
That was particularly pronounced with N8S.  I'd also agree that an
expedition should give time to difficult-to-reach parts of the world, but
the way things are at the moment, if BS7H had called for North America only
yesterday, then there would probably have been bedlam.

  Dave G0OIL


  Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams'
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs,
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least
one band, often as many as 5 or 6 bands are good simultaneously, so
if the Scarborough guys are QRV chances are EU DXers will get a much
better shot at them than NA will. Serious European DXers will likely
get them on several bands and modes. Yet in the 3 hour window for NA,
these clowns won't stand by or stop bitching on the DX frequency.

On the other hand, it would also be nice if the team would call NA
for a few hours at a time; seemed like it was JA and EU day all day
long. I'm sure that will change in the next day or two, so I'm not
too worried. Yet .

I don't know what the answer is; perhaps the DX operators once in a
while should have a listen to their TX frequency and administer the
clue bat when things get bad. Maybe along the lines of "since you are
so badly behaved, no more Europe for the next 12 hours," an

RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[DAVE WHITE]

Absolutely. I couldn't have put it better.
   
  I've not been licensed as long as Osten, and in fact I was a very small pink 
thing in nappies in 1962, but certainly whilst I've been on the air (18 years) 
deliberate QRM seems to have got worse.  Perhaps the DX cluster has brought 
more people to interesting DX stations' frequencies, and thus a greater number 
of idiots even assuming that the idiot percentage has remained the same.
   
  I think thast it's also a feature of old timers everywhere to look back on 
the old days with rose tinted spectacles.  Speaking of which, my wife tells me 
that I sound more like my Dad every day in my opinions of the world.  Now 
THAT's worrying. :-)
   
  Dave G0OIL.  Getting older and grumpier, apparently.
   
  

Dave AA6YQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Each new advance
  brings those who would misuse it. 
  Seek their repair, 
  for time will not run backwards.
   
  73,
   
Dave, AA6YQ
   
   
  -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Osten B Magnusson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dx-chat List
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


   
  The deliberate QRM started to be real bad when the worldwide DX-clusters came 
up on Internet. it wasn't difficult to work 
  BS7H in 1994 (not OK for DXCC), 1995 and 1997. Close down all DX-clusters and 
working DX will again be a pleasure! 
   
  73/DX de Osten SM5DQC   on the air working DX since 1962 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
- Original Message - 
  From: DAVE WHITE 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; dx-chat List 
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
  

  Guys, unfortunately this has become the situation here in Europe. .
   
  I really don't know where the mass of deliberate QRM comes from, though 
mostly it seem to be from east or south-east into England so could come from 
anywhere in Europe.  Certainly a lot of the undisciplined cretins seem to be 
Italians, though I'd certainly not state that it's ALL from Italians, nor that 
ALL Italians are bad operators. Many a time I hear a pileup, and the DX is 
asking for (say) "Alpha Bravo Charlie ONLY", but listening through the QSX 
spread I still hear so many without ANY of those letters in the call still 
shouting away.  OK, maybe we can all mis-time a call and double with the DX, 
but surely most simply aren't listening.
   
  Just the other day JT1Y told everyone to QRX, then asked for United Kingdom 
stations only - and all the deliberate QRM started immediately:  whistling, 
keying, white noise, swearing, blowing raspberries etc.  It's just comical.
  
I don't know how to explain why some people would deliberately send QRM over a 
DXpedition.  Perhaps patience is a lost art.  Perhaps self discipline is a lost 
art. Certainly here in the UK, respect for other human beings is now a lost 
art, particularly in the cities where gangs of feral youths terrorise 
neighbourhoods, vandalise anything in sight and stab of shoot each other.  
Education is long dead in this country and has been for a generation thanks to 
idiot politicians, do-gooders and political correctness - and maybe the results 
of this failure are making their way across society.
   
  Perhaps the activities of IT9RYH and IK1JUO have got the Italians an even 
worse reputation and have caused everyone's patience to wear thin, but that 
doesn't excuse what went on yesterday.
   
  I';d agree that Sourthern Europe probably has good propagation to BS7 most of 
the time - they seem to have good propagation everywhere most of the time - 
though here in Northern Europe propagation windows are much shorter.  That was 
particularly pronounced with N8S.  I'd also agree that an expedition should 
give time to difficult-to-reach parts of the world, but the way things are at 
the moment, if BS7H had called for North America only yesterday, then there 
would probably have been bedlam.
   
  Dave G0OIL
   
  
Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both CW and SSB and 
the degree of insanity I heard was unlike anything I've ever heard 
anywhere, ever. I've never operated on CB but could it have been any 
worse than 14185 was today? Time for a good Rettysnitching, I say.

I really don't understand what it is with (southern) European hams' 
attitudes. If you believe any of the propagation prediction programs, 
Europe generally has propagation to BS7 24 hours a day on at least

Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Osten B Magnusson]

  
  >> Dave G0OIL.  Getting older and grumpier, apparently.

"Much older now and wiser"   -   Ballad of Barbara by JR Cash

73/DX de Osten SM5DQC
  - Original Message - 
  From: DAVE WHITE 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; dx-chat List 
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:39 AM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


  Absolutely. I couldn't have put it better.

  I've not been licensed as long as Osten, and in fact I was a very small pink 
thing in nappies in 1962, but certainly whilst I've been on the air (18 years) 
deliberate QRM seems to have got worse.  Perhaps the DX cluster has brought 
more people to interesting DX stations' frequencies, and thus a greater number 
of idiots even assuming that the idiot percentage has remained the same.

  I think thast it's also a feature of old timers everywhere to look back on 
the old days with rose tinted spectacles.  Speaking of which, my wife tells me 
that I sound more like my Dad every day in my opinions of the world.  Now 
THAT's worrying. :-)

  Dave G0OIL.  Getting older and grumpier, apparently.



  Dave AA6YQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Each new advance
brings those who would misuse it. 
Seek their repair, 
for time will not run backwards.

73,

  Dave, AA6YQ
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Osten B 
Magnusson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dx-chat List
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA



The deliberate QRM started to be real bad when the worldwide DX-clusters 
came up on Internet. it wasn't difficult to work 
BS7H in 1994 (not OK for DXCC), 1995 and 1997. Close down all DX-clusters 
and working DX will again be a pleasure! 

73/DX de Osten SM5DQC   on the air working DX since 1962 [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: DAVE WHITE 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; dx-chat List 
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


  Guys, unfortunately this has become the situation here in Europe. .

  I really don't know where the mass of deliberate QRM comes from, though 
mostly it seem to be from east or south-east into England so could come from 
anywhere in Europe.  Certainly a lot of the undisciplined cretins seem to be 
Italians, though I'd certainly not state that it's ALL from Italians, nor that 
ALL Italians are bad operators. Many a time I hear a pileup, and the DX is 
asking for (say) "Alpha Bravo Charlie ONLY", but listening through the QSX 
spread I still hear so many without ANY of those letters in the call still 
shouting away.  OK, maybe we can all mis-time a call and double with the DX, 
but surely most simply aren't listening.

  Just the other day JT1Y told everyone to QRX, then asked for United 
Kingdom stations only - and all the deliberate QRM started immediately:  
whistling, keying, white noise, swearing, blowing raspberries etc.  It's just 
comical.

  I don't know how to explain why some people would deliberately send QRM 
over a DXpedition.  Perhaps patience is a lost art.  Perhaps self discipline is 
a lost art. Certainly here in the UK, respect for other human beings is now a 
lost art, particularly in the cities where gangs of feral youths terrorise 
neighbourhoods, vandalise anything in sight and stab of shoot each other.  
Education is long dead in this country and has been for a generation thanks to 
idiot politicians, do-gooders and political correctness - and maybe the results 
of this failure are making their way across society.

  Perhaps the activities of IT9RYH and IK1JUO have got the Italians an even 
worse reputation and have caused everyone's patience to wear thin, but that 
doesn't excuse what went on yesterday.

  I';d agree that Sourthern Europe probably has good propagation to BS7 
most of the time - they seem to have good propagation everywhere most of the 
time - though here in Northern Europe propagation windows are much shorter.  
That was particularly pronounced with N8S.  I'd also agree that an expedition 
should give time to difficult-to-reach parts of the world, but the way things 
are at the moment, if BS7H had called for North America only yesterday, then 
there would probably have been bedlam.

  Dave G0OIL


  Peter Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS is worse than ever 
>-- and no one can blame the US lids for it!!! Call by numbers is 
>fine -- as long as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.
>
>Shame on the world's hams!!

I Couldn't agree more. I was listening all day on both 

Re: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Jerry Keller]

BS7H was 5-5 to 5-7 much of the afternoon here in eastern PA, n a 3 el yagi.

I'm surprised that they couldn't be heard in NJ, just a few miles east of my 
QTH. Must be something wrong with the antenna or the feedline. Or maybe an 
arrogant, ill-mannered attitude blocks the ears (as well as the head).


73, Jerry K3BZ

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave AA6YQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "dx-chat List" 
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA



Because you couldn't hear them with your "not too puny" station in New
Jersey, my 55 report from Boston was "Pure BS"? You have a bit to learn
about propagation, as well as manners.

And while you're at it, take a deep breath. You'll find it easier to work
them if can you keep your wits about you.

  73,

 Dave, AA6YQ



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of harris_ruben
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:56 PM
To: dx-chat List
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


I saw that  Boston callout. No way, Jose.

My station -- not too puny --had ZERO copy when
that Boston call came out. Pure BS IMO.
The best I heard 'em was 52. Our Italian friends
played cops on 20 meters. Someone even yelled at
ME (when I was working split at 14201) yelling
directly at ME! (on the DX freq 14185) "N2ERN -
working ones" -- long after they were calling
twos. What lids!!! You could just puke! At least
I was in the split range!!

I'll still be in there, but my band is 18 -- and
I expect (hope) to work 'em there.


I am not by any means a newcomer to DX, but THIS
is worse than ever -- and no one can blame the US
lids for it!!! Call by numbers is fine -- as long
as WE can hear what numbers the DX is calling!!.

Shame on the world's hams!!

N2ERN


Another reason for DX to call by numbers instead of geographical 
area..

Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: "Dave AA6YQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:51:16 -0400

He is 55 near Boston on short path. No copy on long path.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Maikisch
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:44 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA


THE BS7H WAS STRONG HERE THIS AFTERNOON INTO NE USA, BUT WAS CALLING EU. 
I

WAS VERY TEMPTED TO CALL HIM ANYWAY BUT LET IT GO. EVEN SO PROBABLY WOULD
NOT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH EU PILE. WISH HE HAD LISTENED FOR NA AT THAT 
TIME.

STILL, IT GIVES ME HOPE THAT IT  MIGHT JUST BE POSSIBLE TO GET HIM AFTER
ALL.

JOHN - K2AZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] BS7H INTO NE USA

[Zack Widup]

Great quote Dave.  This is only a hobby.  I am not going to die if I don't 
work BS7H (and the likelihood of it at this point looks prety slim - 
they're supposed to be on 14024 now and I don't hear a peep).

When the weak signals, kilocycle cops and tuner-uppers get to me, I 
usually just shut off the rig and do something else.

73, Zack W9SZ

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007, Dave AA6YQ wrote:

> 
> In "the Complete DXer", Bob W9KNI says "But sometimes, the experienced DX'er
> gets into a situation where it quickly becomes obvious that there is no hope
> of a QSO. And it is then the frustrated DX'er shows the world, or at least
> himself, what kind of person he is. Does he QSY, or does he cause needless
> or even intentional QRM?" Does he update the propagation forecasts and check
> the NCDXF beacons, or does he steam up the hill with beady eyes blazing in
> search of anyone who'll listen to his latest rendition of "ain't it awful?".
> 
> DX is.
> 
>73,
> 
>Dave, AA6YQ
> 



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