Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
Well put Jerry. --* SPOILER ALERT -- what follows is somewhat long and detailed and carries quite technical language. If that bores you.LOOK AWAYlook away!* When I made my earlier post complementing the software, I didn't expect the small wave of negative rebuttals I would get. Ahhh, but I should have known better and anticipated that. I'll use a very good example. I used to run large motorcycle rallies for many years. It required numerous hours of research, then numerous hours of on the ground research, which required multiple trips to "Ground Zero" for the rally.all by the way on my dime.requiring me to burn up vacation time..pay for travel, hotels, etc. Pounding the ground to work with the Chamber of Commerce, the Police Department, the Hotel for the rally, City leaders, restaurantsthe prep work goes on and on. Reach out to vendors to get door prizes. Then pack all this stuff up and go to the rally when it actually occurred. Then work the majority of the time at the rallycountless hours. It was exhausting. Andhere's my point (and THE CORRELATION TO DX4WIN) - at the end of the rally, you'd typically have a FEW people complement you and tell you what a terrific job you had done (these were quite often the people who had experience putting on similar events and KNEW firsthand the hard work and countless hours involved). You'd have likewise a few squeaky wheels. who blasted you.usually about something like "you gave me $100, but you gave it to me in $1 billsand I'm going to complain now long and loud". Typically, the negative "whiners" are the ones everyone hears, of course. And thenTHE VAST MAJORITYsay nothing. No thankyou, no whining...they just expected a great "product"got itand they're happy and content and just go on their merry way. And that.when I got a few loud/vocal complaints from the usual suspectsa few compliments from the usual suspectsand mostly heard NOTHING.that was exactly when I knew I had put on a quite successful event. And from my experience, that's the same thing that goes on in most things in life. The majority just take things for granted. Whether it's free, costs money.doesn't really matter. You typically hear the few compliments, the few complaints..and mostly, a "bunch of nothing". I wanted to be one of the ones complimenting, because I know a lot about what it takes to pull it off. To put it in specifics (*LOOK AWAY if you're neither Technical, nor care about what I have to say - *), in the software worldyou have a bunch of user requirements. You, the Coder (or company doing the coding), have to prioritize what you can address and how much time you have to address it. In the Government, they have large boards that meet quarterly or annually and prioritize these requirements. But it's not that simple. You have Problem Reports (PRs) that get prioritized. Usually on a scale of 1-5. With 1s and 2s being high priority...typically MUST fix type stuff. You know, the code is BROKE type stuff. Stuff that's lower...like 3-5 priority stuffis stuff that can wait, or you find a Known Problem and Workaround (KP). Likesome of the posts here about being able to upload stuff to LOTW with a few clicks or steps. Is it automatic like some want? No. But it's a KP's a workaround. So often, as it's Priority is between 3-5, it gets moved back DOWN the priority list to fix. Stuff left over from prior boards often become Deficiency Reports (DRs). Now, they MUST be brought up at the next board when determining priorities. You get the picture. It's more complex than meets the eye. Granted, a logging program isn't as involved (perhaps) as an operating system for millions of folks, but it's more complex than first thought perhaps? Then you have to build Use Cases for all the requirements you're going to address. How will they actually be implemented. Then figure out how your'e going to Code it once you have Use Cases. And then the real fun part. TESTING. You have to do System Integration Testing (SIT). Does the code load properly? Is it able to boot up and the main functions work? Now no doubt the most demanding part of Testing.Regression Testing or ROT. Did i break something. Sure, we seemed to have added some new features. But all this stuff has to work together. You'll never hear the end of the complaints from those same "loud folks" if you broke something that worked perfectly before! And what makes ROT especially hardand quite TIME DEMANDINGis attempting to predict all the negative things that can be done to the code to break it. What if this user puts letters in a date box? What does it do? Does it give an error message? Does it break the code and require a reboot? ALL POSSIBLE INPUTS...have to be documentedscripted for testing.and then tested and documented. Didn't get the results you expected? Something breaks with an unexpected input. Back to coding again. And again. And again. Every
Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
Sure, I would be willing to pay for it. Can Paul give me a quote? Dave, N4QS -Original Message- From: dx4win-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Jerry N9AW Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:53 PM To: Paul F6EXV Cc: DX4WIN Reflector Subject: Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN And if Paul (developer) were to implement these things you ask for, would you be willing to pay for it? The man and his family have to eat too. Or how about this, would you be willing to pay an annual fee for upgrades to DX4WIN ? Other loggers with robust features demand this. I too am a very long time user of DX4WIN. I don't recall the year I started using it but it seems like the early 90s. As I recall, Paul said long ago that he was freezing any further development of DX4WIN. That lasted for a long time. When we went from vers 8 to vers 9, I considered that a gift. I can't even recall if we paid to get the new version, if we did it was something like $35. For someone to whine and complain that they want their money's worth, I mean come on. I'm sure you'd throw $35 over the bar in one evening or spend that for a mediocre lunch. The other thing to consider is that perhaps Paul does not have time to devote to DX4WIN. Maybe, he has just lost interest. Here's a thought, write to Paul direct in stead of the user group. We're not the ones that will be doing any develop of DX4WIN. 73 Jerry, N9AW On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:38 AM Paul F6EXV wrote: > rue Bruce, the search is just great with DX4Win. > But the program is not being adapted to the changes in our ham world... > FT8, LoTW, Clublog... > Is it that hard to implement these improvements ? > All other programs do that, why can't Clublog do it too ? Is it that hard ? > > But no matter what we Europeans say about it, there will still be no > reaction from the developpers. > I fully agree with Ricardo : if we are not informed of the future of > DX4Win, we will leave... > The fact we "insist" indicated that, yes, we like DX4Win, vut we could > like it even more if we were listened to > > 73 > Paul F6EXV > > Le 16/04/2020 à 17:27, Bruce Blackley a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with > several > > of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I > > ask > them > > a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain > band or > > some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how > > to > pull > > out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just > > about > any > > information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What > > good is > a > > logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. > > Dx4Win does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix > > it. > > Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. > > > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > WD4LBR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Original Message--- > > > > > > > > From: Michael Mathis > > > > Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM > > > > To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net > > > > Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN > > > > > > > > I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to > > group - silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like > > it! Avid > DXer > > and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. > > Freedom > to > > choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you > > Paul > and > > Jim! > > > > > > > > Mike, N4MIK > > > > __ > > > > DX4WIN mailing list > > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > > > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > __ > DX4WIN mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
And if Paul (developer) were to implement these things you ask for, would you be willing to pay for it? The man and his family have to eat too. Or how about this, would you be willing to pay an annual fee for upgrades to DX4WIN ? Other loggers with robust features demand this. I too am a very long time user of DX4WIN. I don't recall the year I started using it but it seems like the early 90s. As I recall, Paul said long ago that he was freezing any further development of DX4WIN. That lasted for a long time. When we went from vers 8 to vers 9, I considered that a gift. I can't even recall if we paid to get the new version, if we did it was something like $35. For someone to whine and complain that they want their money's worth, I mean come on. I'm sure you'd throw $35 over the bar in one evening or spend that for a mediocre lunch. The other thing to consider is that perhaps Paul does not have time to devote to DX4WIN. Maybe, he has just lost interest. Here's a thought, write to Paul direct in stead of the user group. We're not the ones that will be doing any develop of DX4WIN. 73 Jerry, N9AW On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:38 AM Paul F6EXV wrote: > rue Bruce, the search is just great with DX4Win. > But the program is not being adapted to the changes in our ham world... > FT8, LoTW, Clublog... > Is it that hard to implement these improvements ? > All other programs do that, why can't Clublog do it too ? Is it that hard ? > > But no matter what we Europeans say about it, there will still be no > reaction from the developpers. > I fully agree with Ricardo : if we are not informed of the future of > DX4Win, we will leave... > The fact we "insist" indicated that, yes, we like DX4Win, vut we could > like it even more if we were listened to > > 73 > Paul F6EXV > > Le 16/04/2020 à 17:27, Bruce Blackley a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with > several > > of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I ask > them > > a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain > band or > > some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how to > pull > > out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just about > any > > information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What good is > a > > logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. Dx4Win > > does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix it. > > Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. > > > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > WD4LBR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Original Message--- > > > > > > > > From: Michael Mathis > > > > Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM > > > > To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net > > > > Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN > > > > > > > > I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to group - > > silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like it! Avid > DXer > > and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. Freedom > to > > choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you Paul > and > > Jim! > > > > > > > > Mike, N4MIK > > > > __ > > > > DX4WIN mailing list > > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > > > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > __ > DX4WIN mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
As long as you are happy with whatever logging program you are using and you are having fun with the hobby, that's all that matters. Some people drive Fords and some people drive Chevrolets. What ever turns you on. The main thing is, have fun. 73 Bruce WD4LBR ---Original Message--- From: Paul F6EXV Date: 4/16/2020 11:38:03 AM To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN rue Bruce, the search is just great with DX4Win. But the program is not being adapted to the changes in our ham world... FT8, LoTW, Clublog... Is it that hard to implement these improvements ? All other programs do that, why can't Clublog do it too ? Is it that hard ? But no matter what we Europeans say about it, there will still be no reaction from the developpers. I fully agree with Ricardo : if we are not informed of the future of DX4Win, we will leave... The fact we "insist" indicated that, yes, we like DX4Win, vut we could like it even more if we were listened to 73 Paul F6EXV Le 16/04/2020 à 17:27, Bruce Blackley a écrit : > > > > > I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with several > of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I ask them > a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain band or > some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how to pull > out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just about any > information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What good is a > logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. Dx4Win > does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix it. > Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. > > > > 73 > > > > Bruce > > > > WD4LBR > > > > > > > > ---Original Message--- > > > > From: Michael Mathis > > Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM > > To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN > > > > I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to group - > silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like it! Avid DXer > and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. Freedom to > choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you Paul and > Jim! > > > > Mike, N4MIK > > __ > > DX4WIN mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
rue Bruce, the search is just great with DX4Win. But the program is not being adapted to the changes in our ham world... FT8, LoTW, Clublog... Is it that hard to implement these improvements ? All other programs do that, why can't Clublog do it too ? Is it that hard ? But no matter what we Europeans say about it, there will still be no reaction from the developpers. I fully agree with Ricardo : if we are not informed of the future of DX4Win, we will leave... The fact we "insist" indicated that, yes, we like DX4Win, vut we could like it even more if we were listened to 73 Paul F6EXV Le 16/04/2020 à 17:27, Bruce Blackley a écrit : I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with several of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I ask them a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain band or some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how to pull out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just about any information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What good is a logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. Dx4Win does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. 73 Bruce WD4LBR ---Original Message--- From: Michael Mathis Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to group - silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like it! Avid DXer and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. Freedom to choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you Paul and Jim! Mike, N4MIK __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Dx4win] Fw: Re: Very Satisfied with DX4WIN
I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with several of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I ask them a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain band or some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how to pull out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just about any information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What good is a logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. Dx4Win does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. 73 Bruce WD4LBR ---Original Message--- From: Michael Mathis Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to group - silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like it! Avid DXer and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. Freedom to choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you Paul and Jim! Mike, N4MIK __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
