[e-gold-list] Re: open

[jpm]

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> http://1mdc open for business at last, this Friday 13th..
>
>Unique! Intriguing! I can only wonder what great new features
>'1mdc' has in store for it's lodgers.
>
>Great going, JP.
>

Our ultimate aim it to take over the best ERE on the net ..
http://tarasvirtualstudio.com !!

:)

Actually, you can probably guess what will happen with 1mdc.  And 
yes, early users will be rewarded very well.


>Bob
>
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[e-gold-list] Re: that gets my goat!

[jpm]

>JP,
>
>You are right but you miss the main point.
>
>> so called 'insider trading' is a consensual crime: like drug use,
>> there is no reason for it to be illegal.
>
>Insider trading is not at all a crime (consensual or otherwise).  It is
>the whole point of having markets.  Markets serve as a means of making
>economic use of dispersed information.  Markets are not some sort of
>tabula rasa gambling game where everyone is supposed to be equally
>clueless.  They are specifically means to make use of information that
>few people possess ("insider information").  To prohibit insider
>trading is tantamount to prohibiting the markets from performing their
>most useful function (as well as violating the individual rights of
>those concerned).  The contemporary acceptance of this phoney "crime"
>is only possible because of near total ignorance of basic economics
>by most of mankind.
>

I completely agree.

It's a 'consensual crime' (ie, in the sense of the book _Aint 
nobody's business if you do_ which I believe coined the phrase): a 
crime with no victims, which, should not be a crime, and, is only a 
"crime" because congress decideds to make it one.

So-called 'insider trading' should NOT be illegal, it should not be a crime.

>The only case in which insider trading is objectionable is when the
>parties involved have signed non-disclosure agreements.  And in that
>case it is not the insider trading that is wrong but the breach of
>contract.
>
>Best,
>
>CCS


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[e-gold-list] Re: open

[Bob]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> http://1mdc open for business at last, this Friday 13th..

Unique! Intriguing! I can only wonder what great new features
'1mdc' has in store for it's lodgers.

Great going, JP.

Bob

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[e-gold-list] OECD and FATF

[Bob]

Subject: 
ip: Claude Frederic Bastiat
  Date: 
Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:15:00 -0400
  From: 
"R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Digital Bearer Settlement List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:41:03 -0500
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
Subject: ip: Claude Frederic Bastiat


Happy Birthday, Bastiat!
By J. Bradley Jansen

http://www.aim.org/


On June 29th, as we celebrated Claude Frederic Bastiat's 200th birthday,
we
were also celebrating economic common sense. Perhaps more than any other
economic commentator, Frederic Bastiat was able to reduce economic
sophisms
to their basic principles and follow them to their logical conclusions.
This
approach was very effective in educating people of the ill-effects of
various
proposals.

We need more Bastiats today. Born at Bayonne, France, Bastiat was
orphaned at
age nine and raised by his grandfather and his aunt.

He studied languages, literature and music, and lived through a
revolutionary
time. He was 14 when Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo and then exiled.
At
17, Bastiat began to work for his uncle then, at age 19, Bastiat also
continued his studies by turning his interests to political economy with
the
writings of Adam Smith and Jean-Baptiste Say. Bastiat survived the
Revolution
of 1830 and became involved in local politics the following year.
Bastiat
rose to prominence in 1844 with the publication of an article on tariffs
and
trade. Although he died just six years later, Bastiat became a vocal and
eloquent critic of protectionism.

One of his most famous works was his petition of the candle makers and
others
to the members of the Chamber of Deputies (<
http://www.dallasfed.org/htm/pubs/ei/ei3_1.html>).

In that fictional petition, the makers of candles and related industries
were
lobbying the legislature for trade protection from an unfair foreign
competitor who was hurting their business, costing French jobs.

The petition read in part, "We are suffering from the ruinous
competition of
a foreign rival who apparently works under conditions so far superior to
our
own for the production of light that he is flooding the domestic market
with
it at an incredibly low price: for the moment that he appears, our sales
cease, all the consumers turn to him, and a branch of French industry
whose
ramifications are innumerable is all at once reduced to complete
stagnation."
That foreign rival wreaking havoc on the domestic market was none other
than
the sun. The petitioners were asking for a law requiring the closing of
all
shutters, skylights and other openings permitting the light of the
unfair
foreign competition.

As Bastiat explained, "The sort of dependence that results from
exchange,
i.e., from commercial transactions, is a reciprocal dependence. We
cannot be
dependent upon a foreigner without his being dependent on us. Now, this
is
what constitutes the very essence of society. To sever natural
interrelations
is not to make oneself independent, but to isolate oneself completely."
His
insight into the benefits of free trade still offers us a valuable
lesson.

Another important essay of his was the essay, "What is Seen and What is
Not
Seen" which explained that consumers and citizens should not be duped
into
only looking at the ostensible benefits of government action and should
consider the hidden costs as well.

In his "The Broken Window" essay, he exposes the fallacy that forced
redistribution has a net benefit effect for society as a whole. In fact
some
gain at others' expense, but the net effect is often negative for
everyone.

Bastiat gave us a wealth of insightful quotations also (some are
available at
<http://www.bomis.com/rings/bastiat/2).
One of my favorites reads, "The state
is the great fiction by which everybody tries to live at the expense of
everybody else." Another favorite is "Plunder, which plays such an
important
role in the affairs of the world, has but two instruments: force and
fraud,
and two impediments: courage and knowledge." It is a call to arms that
we
should not cower from pointing out the fallacies in economic debates.

Unfortunately, one place where his economic insights did not last seems
to be
Paris. There, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development
and
the Financial Action Task Force are in the process of making a mockery
of the
Rule of Law. Their bureaucrats are not directly accountable to people of
the
countries they claim to represent, but they claim to represent
themselves as
policy-making bodies. Even worse, the OECD and FATF bureaucrats are not
only
trying to make policies for their own member countries. They are also
trying
to dictate the policies for countries that are not members of the OECD
or
FATF and have no say in determining the rules of the game. Both the
approach
and policies of the OECD and FATF regarding tax competition, finan

[e-gold-list] "Only thirty years ago ... the dollar was a joke; ... "

[Bob]

Subject: 
ip: The Fallible Fed
  Date: 
Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:12:14 -0400
  From: 
"R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Digital Bearer Settlement List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:40:44 -0500
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
Subject: ip: The Fallible Fed



The Fallible Fed
by William Anderson

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=725&FS=The+Fallible+Fed

Austrian economists, I believe, understand the Federal Reserve System
like no
other people because they despise it so much.  In fact, Austrians
condemn
central banking in general because they recognize that these
institutions are
set up primarily to fund profligate spending by politicians and to
rescue
banks from their own bankruptcy.
Outside the Austrian School, however, central banks often seem to wear a
halo.  Historians praise them, most mainstream economists support
them, and
politicians quickly discover that they cannot exist without them. Â
This does
not mean that these folks actually understand central banking.  In
fact,
most
economists, having been schooled in either Keynesianism or monetarism or
both, have a general idea of what the Fed does, but they are so woefully
ignorant in financial matters that their "knowledge" proves to be less

than
worthless.
People trained in finance, unfortunately, are generally agnostic when it
comes to knowing much about economics per se.  Thus, the modern world
of
economics and finance gives us the worst possible combination:
economists who
donâ*™t understand financial instruments and financial "experts" who
donâ*™t
comprehend economics.  Out of this witchâ*™s brew come modern fiscal
and
monetary policies that emanate from Washington and nearly every other
capital
of the world.
Martin Mayer, who has distinguished himself in earlier worksâ*”and who
was one
of the few financial journalists who actually understood the roots of
the
1975 New York City financial crisisâ*”has attempted to shed some light
on the
Fedâ*”and generally succeedsâ*”in
The
Fed: The Inside Story of How the World's
Most Powerful Financial Institution Drives the Markets (The Free Press,
2001).

I agree with Gene Epstein of Barronâ*™s, who believes that a reader
will learn
more from Murray Rothbardâ*™s
The Mystery
of
Banking.  Rothbard was well-known
for his everlasting hatred of the Fed (which, I may add, was
well-deserved).  Mayer, on the other hand, while not worshipful of our
august
central bank, cannot quite bring himself to condemn this monstrosity,
either. Â
Unlike so many others, who have written about the Fed in hushed,
reverent
tones, Mayer does admit that, for all of the hype that politicians and
the
press give the Federal Reserve System, "a lot of them donâ*™t know what
theyâ*™re doing."  If he were absolutely honest, he could include Alan
Greenspan himself in that group of the blind who are leading the blind.
For someone not trained in finance (like me), The Fed is quite helpful
if one
wishes to understand just what is going on in the markets and in banking
today.  For all of the mysteries and complicated formulas surrounding
modern
finance, it is really quite simple: Securities must be "backed" by
assets.  Once upon a time, the bedrock asset in the financial system
was
gold.  Today, it is debt, and, most ominously, it is government debt.Â
 As I
explained twenty years ago to an incredulous group of middle-school
students
who still believed that we were on a gold standard, the "backing" of
money in
this country is based upon the "ability" of the government to go into
hock.
Furthermore, the Fed was created to back up the system of fractional
reserve
banking, which Rothbard and other Austrians have correctly defined as
being
legal fraud.  State authorities prosecute and punish polygamy, but
they
tremble before the "majesty" of the bank, which simply commits a form of
polygamy with the money of its depositors.
If one is a Fed-watcher (which I admit to be from what I wish were a
safe
distance), then The Fed is important reading.  Mayer seems to mostly
understand modern money and bankingâ*”even though his analysis is hardly
Austrian.  He also allows the reader to see just how the Fed, like an
octopus, has been able to slowly but surely extend its arms over the
entire
financial system, much of the permission to expand given it by Congress
in
the aftermath of crises generally spawned by the Fed itself.  In
addition to
Mayerâ*™s explanation of the Fed and its actions, his chapter on central
banks
is important reading for those who donâ*™t understand why governments
more than
three centuries ago began to originate them.
When the Fed was formed in 1914 (after being created by Congress the
year
before), its primary purpose was to serv

[e-gold-list] Re: that gets my goat!

[Craig Spencer]

JP,

You are right but you miss the main point.

> so called 'insider trading' is a consensual crime: like drug use,
> there is no reason for it to be illegal.

Insider trading is not at all a crime (consensual or otherwise).  It is 
the whole point of having markets.  Markets serve as a means of making 
economic use of dispersed information.  Markets are not some sort of
tabula rasa gambling game where everyone is supposed to be equally
clueless.  They are specifically means to make use of information that 
few people possess ("insider information").  To prohibit insider 
trading is tantamount to prohibiting the markets from performing their 
most useful function (as well as violating the individual rights of
those concerned).  The contemporary acceptance of this phoney "crime"
is only possible because of near total ignorance of basic economics   
by most of mankind.

The only case in which insider trading is objectionable is when the
parties involved have signed non-disclosure agreements.  And in that 
case it is not the insider trading that is wrong but the breach of 
contract.

Best,

CCS

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[e-gold-list] Re: that gets my goat!

[Michael Moore]

> It's ok for 'mutual funds' to steal (what other word?) untold 
> billions from people using hype, somehow its not ok for this kid 
> to 
> do it.
> 
> so called 'insider trading' is a consensual crime: like drug use, 
> there is no reason for it to be illegal.
> 
When you go in and read the whole article it make facinating reading in 
that it shows up:

1)  The fallacy  of the S.E.C.  Do what we tell you not what we do. 
When they discovered it was a 14 year old boy that really stuffed them 
up  and of course they could not go public and look like a bunch of 
idiots.

2)  The reasoning behind what Jonathan did which was quite logical, and

3)  The ignorant attitude of his parents, particularly of his father, 
who was more of an emotional boat train than a parental asset.

Perhaps it is amazing what he did in view of the situation he was 
living in.  or maybe was because of it.

I must say I understood what he was saying and and not ashamed to say I 
leanr't something from his perception of how the market works.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.gold-today.com

 -
 Receive faxes 24x7, no second line necessary.
   http://www.mbox.com.au/

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[e-gold-list] RE: that gets my goat!

[Samuel Mc Kee]

> so called 'insider trading' is a consensual crime: like drug use,
> there is no reason for it to be illegal.
>

I agree, but with one qualification: Sometimes insider trader involves the
breach of confidentiality in a situation where confidentiality is
contractually required. In those cases it is at least a civil offense,
breach of contract. But contract law has been around forwever and does not
require the existence of the SEC.



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[e-gold-list] Fastgold is Having a sale through July ... try us out!!

[shupperd1]

www.fastgold.net  is announcing a sale 5.5%  on the purchase of any amount
of E-Gold, Osgold, and Standard Reserve. Effective through the end of July.
You can do Walk in Cash Deposits at either Wells Fargo, Washington Mutual,
Or Bank of America. Funding is usually done within an hour. Please fax your
deposit receipt to 208-723-3892, then either fill out the form on the
fastgold site, or send us an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  provide your name
, address, phone number, bank used with deposit amount, and account you want
funded. You can scan your receipt also. Send the email for all methods
listed here.
Our current bank accounts are as follows:

Washington Mutual # 3863207780 name James Shupperd, in Manteca, CA
Wells Fargo   # 0809554363  name Pinnacle Dynamics, in Las Vegas, NV
Bank of America #004961956927  name Pinnacle Dynamics, in Las Vegas, NV

Bank Wire 6% +$10 fee for any amount to:
James Shupperd of Manteca, CA
Washington Mutual Bank, FA
Manteca, CA 95336
acct# 03863207780
RT# 321180748

Credit Cards (US Only) 9%   send email to address above, provide same
details. Please login to the
members are of fastgold to see special rules for purchasing gold this way.
Via www.c2it.com  send money to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via www.ecount.com  send money to James Shupperd [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Western Union and  Money Gram Person to Person  6%  + $15 fee for  any
amount
Send to James Shupperd, Manteca CA

Money Orders Payable To Pinnacle Dynamics :   6% fee for any amount
Send to 14579 Pueblo Drive, Manteca CA 95336

If you intend on purchasing more than $10,000 worth of gold please contact
us for special discounted rates.

We are trying to service our customers in the most simplest, and effective
way possible. We would like to
know if there is a bank near you that would make buying gold via cash
deposit simple. International banks
welcome. Tell us anything we can do to improve the way you buy gold. send to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

As Always, thank you for your business. And may God Richly bless you.

James Shupperd

 www.fastgold.net  phone  209-825-6622 fax 208-723-3892

Contact me anytime
ICQ # 99212386
Aol Instant Messenger: James Shupperd
yahoo messengershupperd_james
PaLTalk James_CA



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[e-gold-list] that gets my goat!

[jpm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/25/magazine/25STOCK-TRADER.html

It's ok for 'mutual funds' to steal (what other word?) untold 
billions from people using hype, somehow its not ok for this kid to 
do it.

so called 'insider trading' is a consensual crime: like drug use, 
there is no reason for it to be illegal.


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[e-gold-list] Re: 3rd Bananagold Stats Contest - official entry

[jpm]

entry #6 in the quest for four grams!



>> "When will it be useful for large retailers to accept e-gold?"
>
>When the e-gold economy is supported by a much larger mom&pop/'cottage
>farm' industry base. Even though there are many businesses accepting
>e-gold and more joining everyday, it is not enough to warrant the
>attention of the 'big boys'. Almost all that they see, if they even look,
>is the hyips and all they hear from the media is 'money laundering'.
>e-gold being accepted by the mainstream market will actually dramatically
>increase the number of scams and attempted 'money laundering', however it
>will even more dramatically increase the number of legitimate businesses &
>users. The ratio will be greatly in the favor of the legitimate
>businesses; just like it is today with the USD, GBP, AUD, etc...
>
>Another vital ingredient will be a efficient, secure POS device so that
>users don't have to worry and fret over whether this merchant (a car
>mechanic in a small town they've never been to nor will ever be back to OR
>the clerk at Nordstrom's) will surreptiously abscond with their acct# &
>passphrase. As I said before, this is in the works and I would rather not
>disclose the inner workings of it.
>
>A good watershed moment of when large retailers will probably take serious
>notice of e-gold and begin to accept it is when it's daily transaction
>volume exceeds US$1 billion. This is approx. the current daily transaction
>volume of the Danish Krone, and approx. twice the volume of the Irish Punt
>and the New Zealand Dollar. I did all the math for this for the last stats
>contest.
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg03208.html
>
>Given the current, and past, growth rate, e-gold should breach US$1
>billion in daily transaction volume by April-May 2003.
>
>So the official answer of "When will it be useful for large retailers to
>accept e-gold?" is:
>
>In about 2 years.
>
>
>Viking Coder
>
>Worth Two Cents?
>http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?VikingCoder
>
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[e-gold-list] Offshoremetals.com has been launched

[Mila Perry]

Just a quick announcment to e-gold users.
Offshoremetals.com has been launched again.
Offshoremetals.com is dedicated to the exchange of gold-based currencies
and e-cash systems.

Please take a minute of your time  to check it out.


Mila

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[e-gold-list] help ! session expired while transfering e-gold to S & R. e-gold gone ?

[kane]

help ! i have not gotten replies from S & R [EMAIL PROTECTED]

i logged into my account and went away for a while from my computer.

i was at https://www.standardreserve.com/acct/gold_transfer.asp

and trying to transfer gold to my S&R account.

i did not realize that my session is expired. The website did not say
anything or log me out.

so, i transfered e-gold to my S & R account.

but, after i click on Continue at e-gold,

i only realize that my session is expired.

the message says :-

You are not logged in, please login again.
If you have forgotten your password, click here. 


Then, i log in to my S & R account and find the e-gold not transferred
there.

So, i tried emailed S&R people but still no reply for 4 days.

The memo on my e-gold says (i did not realize something amiss)

You Paid: Standard Reserve, Account# 184581
Memo: Transfer 161 grams to # 0.

Is my e-gold lost ?

Is my money gone ?

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[e-gold-list] 3rd Bananagold Stats Contest - official entry

[Viking Coder]

> "When will it be useful for large retailers to accept e-gold?"

When the e-gold economy is supported by a much larger mom&pop/'cottage
farm' industry base. Even though there are many businesses accepting
e-gold and more joining everyday, it is not enough to warrant the
attention of the 'big boys'. Almost all that they see, if they even look,
is the hyips and all they hear from the media is 'money laundering'.
e-gold being accepted by the mainstream market will actually dramatically
increase the number of scams and attempted 'money laundering', however it
will even more dramatically increase the number of legitimate businesses &
users. The ratio will be greatly in the favor of the legitimate
businesses; just like it is today with the USD, GBP, AUD, etc...

Another vital ingredient will be a efficient, secure POS device so that
users don't have to worry and fret over whether this merchant (a car
mechanic in a small town they've never been to nor will ever be back to OR
the clerk at Nordstrom's) will surreptiously abscond with their acct# &
passphrase. As I said before, this is in the works and I would rather not
disclose the inner workings of it.

A good watershed moment of when large retailers will probably take serious
notice of e-gold and begin to accept it is when it's daily transaction
volume exceeds US$1 billion. This is approx. the current daily transaction
volume of the Danish Krone, and approx. twice the volume of the Irish Punt
and the New Zealand Dollar. I did all the math for this for the last stats
contest.

http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg03208.html

Given the current, and past, growth rate, e-gold should breach US$1
billion in daily transaction volume by April-May 2003.

So the official answer of "When will it be useful for large retailers to
accept e-gold?" is:

In about 2 years.


Viking Coder

Worth Two Cents?
http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?VikingCoder

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[e-gold-list] Re: New book on money

[Viking Coder]

> 3.  Money's Preface discusses "Verbicide" and explains how politicians,
> courts, and criminals manipulate or kill the meaning of words by maliciously
> misusing them.  Specific instances of judicial misuse are included in the
> Preface and elsewhere in the book.

The mass media also does a very good job of verbicide. One very good
example is the word 'hacker'.


Viking Coder

Worth Two Cents?
http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?VikingCoder

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[e-gold-list] New book on money

[Metanoic]

New, well reviewed and apparently 'must read' book on money has just come
out.

I notice that their FIRST form of listed payment is e-gold, THEN credit
card, etc.

Somehow that is important to any and all on this list and what e-gold stands
for...


I am not sure that it discussed electronic or future forms of money, but
will be interested to know.


Mr. Ewart does a good job of clearing up several common bits of "patriot
mythology", while instructing his reader on the critical importance of clear
language and proper use of terms and definitions.  The bottom line, of
course, is no surprise: debt-based money and fractional reserve banking
completely violate the Biblical command "Ye shall have honest weights and
measures," while investing a small cadre of mortal men with a degree of
power that goes beyond that dreamt of by any mere king or emperor.  To trust
that any men would be capable of not abusing such power ignores the entire
history of the human race.

"Money" is available from Principia Publishing at
http://www.principiapub.com/index.html.  I believe "Money" will take its
place alongside Edwin Vieira's "Pieces of Eight" as a patriot classic and a
powerful tool for awakening people around the world to the evils of "paper
money".


1.  "Ye shall have honest weights and measures," Money's subtitle, is a
paraphrase of an Old Testament passage (Deuteronomy 25:15).  We chose that
passage for Money's subtitle because it tells us that criminals used
dishonest weights and dishonest measures, monetary and otherwise, 2,700
years ago.  This historical fact should help today's readers understand that
we should not be surprised to learn that today's criminals use dishonest
weights and dishonest measures against us.  Today's shocking "dishonest
weights and dishonest measures" - fractional-reserve banking, unbacked paper
currency, and government deficits - are clearly explained in simple,
conversational terms.
2.  Money does not indict all bankers or all politicians but it does level
serious charges against a small group the book refers to as "Insiders,"
meaning extremely wealthy persons who benefit by war and the threat of war,
and who have allegedly provided financial and other aid to many of this
century's most heinous dictators.  If war (or the threat of war) makes
markets move most rapidly,
and it does, and if the Insiders are so powerful they can manipulate
dictators so as to control the outbreak of war, then they may also
manipulate political campaigns, parties, and office-holders.  Money
discusses this manipulation and the crimes
that make it possible - and the punishments for those crimes, as is provided
by U.S. law.
3.  Money's Preface discusses "Verbicide" and explains how politicians,
courts, and criminals manipulate or kill the meaning of words by maliciously
misusing them.  Specific instances of judicial misuse are included in the
Preface and elsewhere in the book.


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