[e-gold-list] FW: [GATA] An Internet petition to clarify U.S. policy on gold
11:16p ET Friday, July 27, 2001 Dear Friend of GATA and Gold: GATA supporter Barrie Walsh of Halifax, Canada, who has done heroic work for GATA, is at it again, as you'll see below. Please consider signing his electronic petition. CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc. * * * July 27, 2001 Hello, friends of gold. In an attempt to help out our cause, I have started a petition directed to Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill asking for clarification of U.S. policy toward gold and gold accounting. The petition is linked to the GATA web site. The goal is 10,000 signatures. I don't think this is unrealistic. You can sign anonymously so it does not appear on the web site, although your name will be on the document when it is given to Secretary O'Neill. The link below will take you to the petition. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/365824991 Sincerely, BARRIE WALSH Halifax, Canada --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: 100,000 Gold-(99% or so)-Funded Accounts
We've now hit 100,000 Gold-Funded accounts. However, the number of accounts with over 10 grams has fallen a bit in the past couple of weeks to 11,236 from about 11,750. The amount of gold is now at a record-high of 143 bars of 'almost' 400ozs each. HAAHAHAHAH! :) SnowDog hilarious... --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold based Lottery - is a useless idea, unfortunately
So there hasn't yet been a good example of online lottery to point to
There have been two dozen (that I know of) full-scale attempts (ie,
hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars spent) at online lottos.
Every One Flopped, as it happens.
That is why, most anyone who works in the online gaming industry
comments everyone knows that online lottos flop
There has only been one good *EGOLD* online lotto (the Real Gold
Lotto, which was implemented perfectly, but did have shit graphics),
and (unsurpriginsly) it flopped.
{None of this means that in the future there won't be some popular
online lotto. I'm just pointing out the observation that in the past
there has not been. The Real Gold Lotto secret owners made a
mindboggling mistake. They should have asked anyone in the industry
for 1 minutes advice!}
and
say 'They failed because nobody wants to play in online lottos.' While
they were well-intentioned, they weren't well-made.
Just as a curiosity, the http://www.thegoldcasino.com site actually
HAS a wonderful, absolutely perfect, four-mode-of-operation Lottery
built in. (Our standard caisno software suite has that as a feature.)
The TGC folks just don't bother turning it on.
JP!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95000852
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[e-gold-list] Re: Fundamentals
I think some people are missing something as regards the gold bars, the weight thereof. These gold bars are similar to security on a loan. While they do sometimes bail new ones in (or out), this is not their main intention. If you put these gold bars in a vault in London and the bank states that they are there, this is all that need be done to LYRIS BUSTER give them their value. They could be blocks of cheese but the markets would still treat them the same while that fact was unknown. Like most national currencies, their market value comes from their perceived value. Provided most people in the world agrees that the US Treasury isn't insolvent, most people will be quite happy to trade LYRIS BUSTER their greenbacks for goods, services and other currencies. If in fact it turns out the US treasury has no assets or ability to raise income to meet those liabilities, it is no different to what would happen if Wired.com found out that E-gold's gold bars were actually chocolate bars in gold foil. Provided no-one knows it is an article of faith between the people using the currency. Dear BEn -- respectfully, I feel this is quite WRONG, in fact, perfectly wrong! The every idea of e-gold is that it is NOT money. NOT currency. It is, very simply, your own gold which you pay 1% per annum storage fee on. I reckon you are quite wrong here Ben -- and if you are not, I would immediately withdraw all my gold from e-gold and simply keep it in a safe behind my fax machine. Err ... that's not ACTUALLY where my safe is ... um .. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95000852 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] downline trends and more
http://www.bananagold.com/bob.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
Craig, Thanks for the thoughtful reply: However, based on the self-reported receipts of these same sites (which imply very significant amounts of money) they do not seem to be nearly sufficient to plausibly account for the velocity figures. The numbers are off by *over* an order of magnitude. So, my **guess** would be that the HYIP sites account for most of the number of spends made but that a relatively small number of large spends account for most of the gold transfered. You've inspired me to do some more number-crunching, however, and my conclusion comes out different from yours. Here's my thinking; tell me if you think it holds water, and if not, where the leaks are: 1. How many of the funded accounts belong to HYIP investors? One reputable market maker says 90% of e-gold buyers are in it for the HYIPs; another has told me it's about 60%. So let's split the difference and say it's 75%, or about 75,000 accounts. 2. How much in gold-spending per 24-hour period does each of those accounts generate? Hard to say, but we can probably derive a good guess from looking at the best-documented of the HYIPs: E-Biz Ventures. According to the SEC, a subpoena'd review of E-Biz's e-gold accounts put the number of investors at about 22,000. Informed estimates of how much money changed hands in the course of E-Biz's 1-month run converge on $9 million. That breaks out to an average of about $13 a day per account, which we can round down to $10 for simplicity's sake. Remember, though, that the path of that $10 from one end of the e-gold system to the other generates more than just a single $10 spend. First the in-exchange entails a $10 spend from a market maker's account to the investor's account. Then the $10 goes into the HYIP's account, for another spend. Then it comes out of that account as payouts, for another $10 worth of spends. And finally, it leaves the e-gold system as yet another $10 worth of spends to market makers, for out-exchange. Total value of spends per day per account: $40. 3. How much in gold-spending per 24-hour period do HYIPs generate altogether? Also hard to say. E-Biz was an exceptionally popular scheme, and therefore probably drew larger-than-average sums per investor. But let's assume the average HYIP attracts investments an order of magnitude smaller than what E-Bizzers put in -- or just $1 a day. Even so, you have to remember that there are *at least* 10 healthy HYIPs running at any given time, so that kicks the figures back up an order of magnitude, for a wash. The math, then, is this: 75,000 HYIP accounts X $40/day = $3 million ...or pretty much *all* e-gold velocity. I must be missing something. What? Julian --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: If Russia creates a gold-based economy.....
Dale Pond wrote: Russians Anticipate Dollar and Bush Crash by Rachel Douglas Russia is getting ready for the dollar to crash. Preparedness measures have moved from the realm of published warnings, to concrete actions, such as the Central Bank's decision to put the gold chervonets coin into circulation. I just had a CRA$HMAKER flashback. http://www.tradervic.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
Even so, you have to remember that there are *at least* 10 healthy HYIPs running at any given time, so that kicks the figures back up an order of magnitude, for a wash. Do you know of 10 healthy HYIPs running in the e-gold system? From what I understand, E-Gold tries to keep these shut down, (by blocking their accounts from any new 'spends'). If you send these to the Due Dilligence Unit, they should do the same for these 10 you know of. I'd like to see these HYIPs go away, and so would E-gold. The email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SnowDog --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: If Russia creates a gold-based economy.....
James, As you know I live in Russia and as soon as these chervonetzs will be released, I will let you know and maybe even sell some of them to you. WBR, Paul Heh. I still have to read that one, but so many people have talked to me about it that I'm finally going to get around to it. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Who the heck is Desmond Wong?
-- From: Paul Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Who the heck is Desmond Wong? Date: Saturday, 28 July 2001 9:46 AM SNIP That is the current worm that is going around. Delete them quick, don't use Outlook, etc. SNIP -- Anyone who needs to use MS Outlook (or Outlook Express, or other potentially unsafe email systems) should not panic, they simply need to set the security zone of email to 'medium' (or 'high') instead of the stupid 'low' default setting used! Likewise, the default installation for McAfee VirusScan should not be used, because this fails to install email and Internet download protection! Anyone who cannot navigate the options settings or custom install of such (easy) software should get their computer technician to do it for them, or spend some time learning to do it themselves. Depending on the version of software used, this will be found under Tools, Options, or similar. You should check your settings to ensure that Javascript is not executed in email, email preview is not turned on, sent items should not send until you click send and receive, and cookies should not be accepted while reading email. Most importantly, a free personal firewall should be installed and you should learn to use it. Set the firewall to block Outlook (or whichever email program you use) from accessing web traffic, or ensure that only your web browser(s) can browse web pages. Search www.google.com for free* personal firewall download or similar. These viruses are not dangerous (and will not propagate) if they are not executed. What is annoying after all these years of similar 'attacks' are the in-depth virus warnings so many organisations issue that seem to tell people to freak out each time one of these hits! If people simply took the necessary, common sense precautions at all times, then this worm, 'I Love You', 'Melissa', or whatever, would be a case of Ho hum, delete, next. Even the antivirus software industry is largely a scam. Just develop some common sense, and delete, don't run. We (the Internet community) should never have to discuss this again, and it should not make it onto the evening news. Regards, Ian Green http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107242 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Proportion of HYIP scam to legitimate transactions
-- From: Julian Dibbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Those mysterious microspends Date: Saturday, 28 July 2001 9:54 AM SNIP 2. More generally, what portion of the total value and number of daily e-gold spends would you guess is generated by the HYIP economy (cash-flow games, investments, investment advice, etc.)? Claude Cormier recently put the number at around 90%, if I understood him correctly; JP May I think said something to the effect that the percentage is an overwhelming majority. Do those statements reflect a consensus? SNIP If my disagreement prevents such a 'consensus' then so be it. How would either Claude or JP know the amount of business actually conducted by scams compared to legitimate business and personal transactions? e-gold transactions are private. One can only guess who is doing how much business. I don't ask them, but certainly no one I transact with tells me they use e-gold only to participate in a ponzi scheme (or whatever they may call it). JP suggests that Tara's Virtual Studio, and The Gold Casino are nearly the only decent businesses in this market, but I'm sure that with up to USD$4 million per day now being transacted (and having grown to this steadily and strongly over a period of years), there are many business and personal transactions being conducted that the highly esteemed Claude Cormier and JP May do not know about. Regards, Ian Green http://two-cents-worth.com/?107242 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
On 28 Jul 2001, at 3:50, Julian Dibbell wrote: 1. How many of the funded accounts belong to HYIP investors? One reputable market maker says 90% of e-gold buyers are in it for the HYIPs; Hello Julian, I think you are referring to a statement I made. Well keep in mind that the number I suggested is a pure guess based on my observations. Since there are many activities in the gold economy that cannot be observed, this number is most certainly wrong. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: If Russia creates a gold-based economy.....
At 09:59 AM -0400 07/28/2001, GoldSpender wrote: James, As you know I live in Russia and as soon as these chervonetzs will be released, I will let you know and maybe even sell some of them to you. ... Hi Paul. Thanks very much! I really know nothing of your money, will there be more than one size? Are they still doing palladium coins? Do you ever see Ballarinas (Pd. coins that once graced e-gold Ltd.'s reserves, along with the cool 100oz Pd bars still in the vaults which still have the former USSR's Hammer Sickle emblem on them!) in circulation now? Also, do individual Russians tend to hoard/use precious metal coins? What is the official government of Russia reason for suddenly minting these precious metal coins (or is there one?)? Is there an English meaning for the word chervonetz? [I know, I have lots of questions!] By the way, I've had great luck with http://www.GoldenGrams.com/ as a merchant. (Notice how he never seems to offer any nuggets which are *exactly* one gram? ;) I'm beginning to really appreciate nuggets as natural art. Chris and I may even barter a nugget or two for a set of my Boggs Sacagawea coins, but that negotiation's still in process. I think that Boggs himself may be back in the USA very soon. On another subject, I'm amazed at some of the assumptions folks are making about how e-gold is spent! I get the feeling that Ms. Cleo (a Jamaican? psychic and tarot-card reader who purchases lots of cheap, late-night TV air-time in the USA, and who was recently charged with fraud of some sort, but who is still on the web at www.mycleo.com as far as I know) now takes e-gold, and has divined the purposes for all e-gold spends from a tarot-reading of the e-gold Stats page! :^) Let's face it, the Ponzis are there, but they're not that interesting to serious e-gold users. No matter how often I send http://www.mark-knutson.com/ around, they'll exist. IMO, quite a few e-gold users are just privacy-minded individuals who like the idea of using gold, so they do it. A number of people like me get paid in e-gold, all over the world, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets paid weekly, or manages to click the rent to someone in e-gold every month. There are countless other examples besides me buying things like nuggets, too. You just get used to living without the hassle of having to write out checks anymore. IMO, YMMV, Speaking only for myself, etc. etc. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
On 28 Jul 2001, at 7:18, SnowDog wrote: Do you know of 10 healthy HYIPs running in the e-gold system? From what I understand, E-Gold tries to keep these shut down If they are healthy, why would e-gold keep these shut down? HYIPs are not necessarily Ponzi's. Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
On 28 Jul 2001, at 10:49, SnowDog wrote: I disagree; all HYIPs are Ponzi schemes, Craig, You know that there are thousands of investments on stocks markets around the world that return hundreds of percent per year to their investors. I am not saying that they do this on a constant basis, as their are ups and downs. Many gold stocks will make 10, 20, 50% in a period of a few months. Many have done 100-200% since the last bottom in gold stocks in November 2000. In the high teck bubble, returns have been fabulous. Where these stocks all scams or Ponzi? Now who really knows where and how the operators of the so- called HYIPs program use the hundreds of kilos of e-gold that they received from their members. I am not supporting Ponzi's scheme that is for sure. But I don't want to comdemn all so-called high yield investment programs either. I will condemn every scheme that guarantees and promise a 5%- 20% ROI per month..that is for use. But what if the HYIP make no such promise. What if it is a hedge funds that plays the options or derivatives games offshore. What if it tells its investors that the game is a speculative one and they could loose. And if such programs exists, then why would e-gold turn them down or impose limits on their accounts. We don't really know who they are (at least I don't). All me know is that many e-gold users invest (speculate) in them. Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
Julian Dibbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which we can round down to $10 for simplicity's sake. Remember, though, that the path of that $10 from one end of the e-gold system to the other generates more than just a single $10 spend. First the in-exchange entails a $10 spend from a market maker's account to the investor's account. Then the $10 goes into the HYIP's account, for another spend. Then it comes out of that account as payouts, for another $10 worth of spends. And finally, it leaves the e-gold system as yet another $10 worth of spends to market makers, for out-exchange. Total value of spends per day per account: $40. In my experience [*], the path followed is not exactly this one. The payouts from one HYIP are many times invested again in another HYIP or even the same HYIP again (to show their 'confidence' in the program). This would mean that the total value of spends per day per account would be closer to $25 or $30. 75,000 HYIP accounts X $40/day = $3 million ...or pretty much *all* e-gold velocity. 75,000 X $25/day = $1,875,000 = 62,5% of 3 million 75,000 X $30/day = $2,250,000 = 75,0% of 3 million This sort of makes sense: based on your estimate of 75% of the accounts being involved with HYIP's, this makes up for 60%-75% of the total velocity. Edwin [*] This experience is mainly from the early days of the e-gold HYIPs, when sites like DigitalStocks, EMutualFun etc were around. I haven't really been involved after that, but I doubt patterns have changed. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
Edwin Woudt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my experience [*], the path followed is not exactly this one. The payouts from one HYIP are many times invested again in another HYIP or even the same HYIP again (to show their 'confidence' in the program). This would mean that the total value of spends per day per account would be closer to $25 or $30. I just noted that I left out a part of my reasoning to get to this value: the reason for these values is that for every $20 of investment and payout of a HYIP, there is no $20 going trough the market makers, because the gold stays in the system for a while. So on $20 of investment, I estimate it will be just $5 or $10 instead going trough market makers. Edwin --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: If Russia creates a gold-based economy.....
James, Thanks very much! I really know nothing of your money, will there be more than one size? AFAIK there will be the only one size of chervonetz. Are they still doing palladium coins? Do you ever see Ballarinas (Pd. coins that once graced e-gold Ltd.'s reserves, along with the cool 100oz Pd bars still in the vaults which still have the former USSR's Hammer Sickle emblem on them!) in circulation now? No, there're no any ores in circulation at the time. They are just preparing to run chervonetz in circulation, but usual rubles will still be active. Also, do individual Russians tend to hoard/use precious metal coins? What is the official government of Russia reason for suddenly minting these precious metal coins (or is there one?)? Is there an English meaning for the word chervonetz? [I know, I have lots of questions!] The official's government of Russia reason for suddenly minting these precious metal coins is to establish our own, more stable than dollar, currency, IMO. There's no any official translation for 'chervonetz', but in Russian it usually meant 10 rubles. So you should understand it as 'Ten golden rubles', but the actual value is much higher than $10 USD, of course. WBR, Paul --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] The Chevronetz
At 03:35 PM -0400 07/28/2001, C. Cormier - Ormetal Inc. wrote: ... Hello Paul, do you know the weight of a chevronetz and how many coins the governement wants to mint? Good question, also do you know how pure they'll be? Lesser purity would suggest a greater possibility of circulation. Thanks for your help on the name, I'm guessing that chevronetz is a nickname for 10 Rubles, sort of like two bits is a nickname for a quarter here. In my experience whenever a government mints a gold coin they go in for mass-hysterical-optimism about the value of their fiat currency when deciding on a face-value, so the fact that a chevronetz is suddenly going to be much more than ten rubles is no surprise. Also, do you know what words, faces, etc. will be on them? Is the decision to mint the coins seen to be Mr. Putin's, or just the govt.'s? About how much do US dollars (paper, old new) circulate in your part of Russia? Does the average person holding them think about inflation? Thanks JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Those mysterious microspends
Julian, Bear in mind that this is all guess work. The facts we actually know are few and while they may suggest our conclusions they by no means prove them. Our conclusions are certain to be wrong. The only question is whether or not they are completely wrong. 1. How many of the funded accounts belong to HYIP investors? One reputable market maker says 90% of e-gold buyers are in it for the HYIPs; another has told me it's about 60%. So let's split the difference and say it's 75%, or about 75,000 accounts. I find that plausible. But even if 75,000 accounts originated from HYIP marks it doesn't follow that all these accounts are in active HYIP use. It seems more plausible to me that after being parted from their money most of the scamees have left the accounts abandoned with a tiny residual balance. Indeed, there are only 34,250 accounts with balances over a gram which is consistent with this. This suggests that a more reasonable figure for the number of accounts that *could* be active in HYIPs would be 25,000. 2. How much in gold-spending per 24-hour period does each of those accounts generate? I don't find your proposed HYIP money path MM - mark - HYIP - mark - MM to be very likely. I think what actually happens is more like the following. MM - mark - HYIP --| ^| || The money never really goes back to a market maker. After all, in the end, the money does not end up in the scammees account for him to outexchange! Nor does this cycle necessarily happen each day for each dollar as you seem to be assuming. I am not entirely certain what the figures you quote ($9 million changed hands) about E-Biz mean. At that time I believe that e-gold's total reserves were about $10 million so it is not likely that E-Biz marks paid in that much to the e-gold system unless the E-Biz operators were so quick to convert their income back to $ that they would not have had any gold to circulate in their scheme. Perhaps this figure is the total that circulated? However, assume, anyway, that this was the total amount paid in (that gives each of the 22,000 marks about $400 which perhaps may be a little high but is in the ballpark). What is a typical HYIP return? 300% per month? If so then the total in circulation would circulate about 3 times in a month. That would be $27 million per month or about $1 million per day. Which would be doubled when the mark pays the money back to the HYIP. As I recall, the velocity during E-Biz was running $3-5 million per day (perhaps someone else with records or a better memory can correct me on this) so this is also in the ballpark. 3. How much in gold-spending per 24-hour period do HYIPs generate altogether? If M is the money in the HYIP and R is the daily rate of return (it is pretending to pay) then the daily spending (velocity) it generates is unrelated to the number of marks and is about the following. 2*M*R The number of spends made would be proportional to the number of marks. I suggested before that most of the number of spends might be generated by HYIPs making small spends while most of the velocity might be generated by a relatively small number of large spends. This suggestion is corroborated by examining the neat new spend breakdowns. The 6794 spends between 0 and 10g account for a maximum of 15515g. The 1115 spends between 10g and 10kg account for a minimum 47150g. Thus it is unlikely that HYIP circulation (they are unlikely to be making many payments over 10g) accounts for more than a small fraction of the velocity at the present. Best, CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: The Chevronetz
James, Hello Paul, do you know the weight of a chevronetz and how many coins the governement wants to mint? Its weight is 7.74234 AUG. As I now know, it has already been released and is in turnover of the Russian Federation. Good question, also do you know how pure they'll be? Lesser purity would suggest a greater possibility of circulation. As I understand, they are not going to MAKE chervonetzes, they just released a coin from their reserve (1975-1982 year of production). These coins are also tax-free (you don't have to pay sell-tax while buying with a chevonetz). The purity is 0.! The part of 6,565,000 (50,8 tons of AU) chervonetzes is to be or has already been released. Note, that our population is about 140,000,000 persons and not every person would be able to have at least one chervonetz. Thanks for your help on the name, I'm guessing that chevronetz is a nickname for 10 Rubles, sort of like two bits is a nickname for a quarter here. In my experience whenever a government mints a gold coin they go in for mass-hysterical-optimism about the value of their fiat currency when deciding on a face-value, so the fact that a chevronetz is suddenly going to be much more than ten rubles is no surprise. It would also be worth much more than 10 USD or 10 GBP, as I understand. Also, do you know what words, faces, etc. will be on them? The back side of chervonetz can be seen here (http://ezone.com.ua/news/img/20010704dollars). There's written 10 RUBLES OF 1899 YR and Russian Blazon is there, too. Gold Chervonetz has been released by Centrobank since 3 JULY 2001. And it's probably possible to buy them in our banks. And also, as I have just read, the Gold Chervonetz is now a paying instrument and can be used to buy goods, but far not all shops will accept it in the _nearest_ future and they will probably have their own Chervonetz : Rouble exchange value. What about the front side of Chervonetz, a farmworker cropping wheat on the field is coined. Is the decision to mint the coins seen to be Mr. Putin's, or just the govt.'s? It is Centrobank's and the Ministry of Finances' decision, as I get it. About how much do US dollars (paper, old new) circulate in your part of Russia? Does the average person holding them think about inflation? Thanks I don't know how many dollars, but AFAIK the USD is the most exchangable and stable currency in Russian minds. Not all yet know about the crisis coming in the US, but I know and the best decision would be buying Gold (and also Chervonetzes) or Deutsch Marks (DEM) and later Euro EUR. WBR, Paul --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: Proportion of HYIP scam to legitimate transactions
If my disagreement prevents such a 'consensus' then so be it. How would either Claude or JP know the amount of business actually conducted by scams compared to legitimate business and personal transactions? Just for the record Ian, my PERSONAL estimate of the amount of HYip/similar activity on e-gold is about half (That's what I told Julian on the fone, too! His stating that my opinion is 90% is just typical Wired journalistic innacuracy! ;) ) Julian - - re your comment that one market maker suggests 90% of his trancastion are hyip related. Don't forget, thats just ONE market marker. Also, Omnipay is the biggest market maker (I think? No?) and I dont know if that stheir experience. But yes, the figure, whatever it is, is a mystery!!! JP! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95000852 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: The Chevronetz
GoldSpender wrote: Not all yet know about the crisis coming in the US, What crisis? but I know and the best decision would be buying Gold (and also Chervonetzes) or Deutsch Marks (DEM) and later Euro EUR. DMs will have to be exchanged for euros, they'll stop being spendable. I've heard about the french francs, that the banks have been instructed to tell the taxmen about any exchanges, so les francs libres are being turned rapidly into saleable commodities or invested in house improvements, etc. Dunno if same applies to germany, but caution would be indicated. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: The Chevronetz
Julian Morrison wrote:
GoldSpender wrote:
Not all yet know about the crisis coming
in the US,
What crisis?
With both parties in the US saying there's a surplus when
there is none because unfunded liabilities are growing at
over a trillion USD a year, there's bound to be some type
of rockn n rolln (crisis?) at some point, because most, it
appears to me, in the US believe their politicians.
There's going to be some real nice percentage gains to be
made. Not that I know when. But who cares when.
It's all in the charts - JP May
What? Me worry? - Alfred E. Newman ('Mad' magazine)
Now GoldMoney has ads on it's *home* page, too!
http://www.goldmoney.com/
Oh, no! Mr. Bill!. What if e-gold caves in to stay competitive?
What will the spend page purists do?
Bob
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