[e-gold-list] ROBOXchange.com
Dear members of this list, Sidd, Sir, You wrote in your posting to DGC.chat list and this list: If Alexander is really involved I seriously doubt that it is a fraudulent business... My guess... thieves who steal e-gold login details are making their first spend from the stolen account to the ROBOXchange, and thus helping to obfuscate the trail of the stolen funds. The owner of the stolen account is blaming ROBOXchange for the thievery because they see the payment was made to the ROBOXchange. Perhaps Alexander would be willing to comment on this? Before I'll comment I *have to* ask you to excuse me for all the harsh words I said in P.S. to my previous posting. I'm really very sorry. I completely misunderstood the intentions you had forwarding the letter to this list. Please forgive me. Now I see that I was completely wrong thinking that you were trying to exhibit our service and our company as scammers and fraudsters which is definitely not the case. One more time, please forgive me. It happens some time that you completely misunderstand people whom you've never seen off-line judging by their postings, e-mails etc . As to your speculation about what's going on with our ROBO service, I think you are right, that some individual(s) found that the option to exchange e-currencies to each other in real time provided by our service can be in some way helpful for their activities (which nor I nor our company do not support in no way). We are working on measures to avoid this, maybe in some sort of cooperation with supervisors of payment systems involved, although there are not so many things we both can do at the time. On the other side we can not deprive honest people of this unprecedented option to exchange one e-currency to another in real-time just because some cruel and dishonest individual(s) can also use it... From our point of view people using e-gold do not pay enough attention to the security options provided by e-gold system itself, they do not use securities settings to avoid access to their money from other people computers etc. I would suggest publishing more information and instructions about this *most important* issue on e-gold site and, maybe, a sort of FAQ about Security. By the way, in the nearest future we are going to include PECUNIX into our exchange options, so that the owners of e-currencies used by Russian Internet community will be able to buy or sell it. At the moment our programmers are studying the description of interfaces and I *must* admit that it's one of the most professional description we've ever seen, quite opposite to the harsh words I've said, again I'm sorry. This work will be over soon. Maybe we'll come up to you with some questions next week. Kind Regards,Alexander V. Fedotov _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ROBOXchange.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: ATM/Debit cards on sale....
George, you are correct. These cards are issued by a US bank and they do provide an excellent service especially to those people who need to carry cash around the world. It is ideal for those people who would like to cash out some of their e-gold, evocash, netpay, etc funds and make groceries or buy gass or do what ever they like. No personal details or ID are attached to your card records, so the card is very private. What more can you ask for? Michella http://digibuck.com Sales FDIC insurance is only available to US financial institutions. Hence are we to assume this is a US-based card? George --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 10:27 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, I am a lover of all kinds of music and I am not able to find any online merchants accepting e-gold for CDs. Will someone please take my advice and start doing this. It might also be a good idea if you will ship worldwide since e-gold is worldwide. Use http://www.bananagold.com. You can spend e-gold, 1mdc, or Goldmoney. I bet they ship worldwide but I'm not 100% certain. I just bought a CD at Bananagold yesterday, by the way. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 10:35 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, Patrick Chkoreff wrote: Use http://www.bananagold.com. You can spend e-gold, 1mdc, or Goldmoney. I bet they ship worldwide but I'm not 100% certain. Well I scrolled down the page a bit and it's quite clear they ship worldwide. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 10:27 AM -0400 10/9/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, I am a lover of all kinds of music and I am not able to find any online merchants accepting e-gold for CDs. ... This is a good idea, but why bother with a physical CD, instead of just vending an MP3 (or just asking for a tip, as www.radsfans.net does)? Over $80 million was spent by Napster not-getting this idea before they died, so it's definitely yet-another pile of money on the ground, waiting for somebody to pick it up, IMO. Considering the statements of famous artists like Courtney Love and Don Henley, it's surprising to me that nobody has done this yet... JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
GISP!! YOU CAN BUY ANY MUSIC CD MADE RIGHT NOW USING EGOLD OR GOLDMONEY OR 1MDCGRAMS http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com http://www,bananagold.com Guys, I am a lover of all kinds of music and I am not able to find any online merchants accepting e-gold for CDs. Will someone please take my advice and start doing this. It might also be a good idea if you will ship worldwide since e-gold is worldwide. SV Gisp - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can resolve all things into itself, and turn itself into all things' Samuel Butler --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 10:44 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, James M. Ray wrote: ... Over $80 million was spent by Napster not-getting this idea before they died, so it's definitely yet-another pile of money on the ground, waiting for somebody to pick it up, IMO. ... Yes, I always thought Napster was committing suicide and needlessly antagonizing the artistic community by not implementing some kind of mini-payment system. The artists could get a huge cut and not be indentured servants to the record companies. It would probably only take 2 or 3 cg per download. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 10:44 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, James M. Ray wrote: ... Over $80 million was spent by Napster not-getting this idea before they died, so it's definitely yet-another pile of money on the ground, waiting for somebody to pick it up, IMO. ... Yes, I always thought Napster was committing suicide and needlessly antagonizing the artistic community aka theft (either you believe in ownership of property or not!) by not implementing some kind of mini-payment system. The artists could get a huge cut and not be indentured servants to the record companies. Geez, what is this ... communist day? Whoever owns the music, owns the music, end of story. (As a creative judgement if you will, the popular music industry is just a handy system for removing money from younger people -- and that's a great idea (I wish I'd thought of it). But in any event, whoever owns the music, owns the music.) The artists are nothing, they can all be replaced in five minutes. They're of little more importance than minor actors in movies, so what? Architects and builders don't own buildings .. building owners own buildings. (I mean, its like when you buy a bottle of coke for $1. What you're happily paying for is 50 cents to the retailer, 49 cents to Coca Cola Inc., 0.90 cents for bottling costs as for the remaining tenth of a cent (the actual cost of making coke) you have 95% advertising costs and 5% product (i.e. like the formula or sugar or whatever) costs.) It would probably only take 2 or 3 cg per download. -- Patrick - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can resolve all things into itself, and turn itself into all things' Samuel Butler --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 12:05 PM -0400 10/9/02, Patrick Chkoreff wrote: ... Yes, I always thought Napster was committing suicide and needlessly antagonizing the artistic community by not implementing some kind of AFAIK, nobody at Napster ever even TRIED e-gold (it wasn't for lack of me asking them to, though). It makes me wonder what-all they did with the $80+ million, frankly... mini-payment system. The artists could get a huge cut and not be indentured servants to the record companies. It would probably only take 2 or 3 cg per download. Yes. The treatment of many artists by what I call the RIAA quintopoly is outrageous. For example, most contracts stipulate that musicians can hire from a very-limited pool of approved accountants if they wish to audit any numerical claims made to them. Various other horror-tales abound, but my point is that we can HELP the music business by taking the time to explain e-gold to musicians. I wish I had done a better job with Napster (though I'm not sure what else I could have said/done!) but now there are harder-to-stop, less-centralized services to ask, so there's still plenty of opportunity out there. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] FDIC Insurance
Hello, Actually there are special accounts you get at banks in the USA for aggregators. The aggregator gives up a certain amount of control to the bank, (ie you can't take money out without the accounting records to back it) which allows full pass through FDIC insurance. So you are not only getting the FDIC insurance but your money is probably safer in general if the bank is doing its job correctly. David Gendron, http://www2.valisinternational.com US Bank Accounts and US Business Presences Setup for the World --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 11:20 AM 10/9/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... The artists could get a huge cut and not be indentured servants to the record companies. Geez, what is this ... communist day? Let's see, what did I describe? Artists would produce music, own music, sell direct to the market, bypass the RIAA quintopoly (thanks JMR), and get a huge cut. Sounds like private property, competition, and creative destruction to me. Definitely not communism. Whoever owns the music, owns the music, end of story. In my scenario the artists would own the music, end of story. The artists are nothing, they can all be replaced in five minutes. They're of little more importance than minor actors in movies, so what? Architects and builders don't own buildings .. building owners own buildings. In my scenario an artist would be architect, builder, and landlord. The record company is merely a marketing vehicle. It can be replaced in five minutes. In my scenario an artist could own the music and strike a deal with a record company to market the music. Record companies would still serve an important purpose and thrive accordingly. My wife is a manufacturer's representative for women's accessories. The manufacturers design, produce, and own the products. My wife markets them to retailers and collects a commission. It works fine. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:44 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, James M. Ray wrote: Yes, I always thought Napster was committing suicide and needlessly antagonizing the artistic community aka theft (either you believe in ownership of property or not!) The hallmark of theft is that the victim is missing something they previously had. Copying and sharing do not fit. One can believe in ownership of property without believing that it makes sense to 'own' a potential market, which is what so-called intellectual property reduces to. -- Randall Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] [The] poetic justice of cause and effect compels respect, compassion. -- Faithless, God is a DJ. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
In my scenario the artists would own the music, end of story.
In my scenario an artist would be architect, builder, and landlord.
OK, that's an interesting scenario, but your post I think implied
that you feel the current scenario is sort of wrong, morally wrong --
that in a way in the current scenario the musicians get ripped off
by the record companies (if that wasn't what your tone was meant to
communicate .. I'm sorry)
The record company is merely a marketing vehicle.
presumably here you also mean in your scenario
It can be replaced in five minutes.
(ditto)
In my scenario an artist could own the music and strike a deal with
a record company to market the music.
I just dunno if that's how musicians would want it though. Musicians
are clueless and know nothing about business. Currently, from each
record company a handful of important video directors and big song
writers, and also performers, make all the money for the record
companies. They subsidize the small acts--who would make nothing
under the scenario you describe.
{In the current system the small acts should make nothing sort of
morally if you will...it's a crap idea (IMHO) for bands that don't
sell to be living off Madonna -- but that's the record company's
choice, if they wanna do it that way) (Presumably the music company's
rationale is to build up-and-comers, but I see no evidence of that.
[there's rarely a small non-selling band living off madonna that
comes good and eventually makes big selling records] it seems to
just create moral hazard for small non-selling musicians...and then
on top of that they tend to whine and so on that their music (which:
doesn't sell) is sort of good in some ineffable sense ... and then
you're exactly one step from Sweden, where the govmint buys any
canvas with paint on it because it is art (rofl) and hangs them up
in endless warehouses, and all the joys of sweden's successful
economy!}
In your example:
My wife is a manufacturer's representative for women's accessories.
The manufacturers design, produce, and own the products.
Right -- and somewhere in that process the manufacturer happens to
hire a designer (say a Phillipe Starck or Michael Graves, like Target
does, or Kate Spade who does handbags...or more likely just some
nameless fellow in the back room) who actually makes (in the sense
of designing on paper) the product.
But you wouldn't in a fit (I assume?) suggest that Starck should own
the Target corporation?
Should a car designer own Ford or GM?! Should mr. pininfarina own ferrari?
That's all that musicians are in the music industry (as it exists
now), they're nothing.
I mean Jay is incredibly important to e-gold, but e-gold *is*
Doug's. It's not Jay's!
What you're saying is analogoug to saying and in the future, in my
scenario, folks like Jay would own their own DGC. I mean I suppose
that's fine and they can do that if they want. (Hi Jay!)
My wife markets them to retailers and collects a commission. It works fine.
Right .. simarly music companies happen to hire - say - ad agencies,
design companies, marketing think tanks, researchers etc as one small
part of what they do. (In the above you rather suggest that music
companies are just that advertising part .. I just don't think that
makes much sense, though :O )
Certainly, by all means, there are examples of individuals who not
only say design a car, but entirely own the car company (maybe like
DeLorean was an example of that, I dunno). Indeed ... Prince has now
become such an entity in the music world (good luck to him...its a
free world).
More generally on the topic (Ray!) ... you get this sort of
wired-magazine-libertarianism view (as its sometimes called) of
people who like napster coz its gonna break down evil record
companies (or...something vaguely revolutionarily against The
Man) ... but it's not capitalism. It's called: theft. If Ayn Rand
was still around she'd probably SHOOT anyone who napster'd a copy of
one of her novels or movies. If I use photoshop without paying for
it for awhile, I openly call that THEFT. Because that's what it is.
THEFT. Private property ... like it or lump it! :)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can
resolve all things into itself, and turn itself
into all things' Samuel Butler
---
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viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 11:20 AM 10/9/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:44 AM 10/9/2002 -0400, James M. Ray wrote: ... Over $80 million was spent by Napster not-getting this idea before they died, so it's definitely yet-another pile of money on the ground, waiting for somebody to pick it up, IMO. ... Yes, I always thought Napster was committing suicide and needlessly antagonizing the artistic community aka theft (either you believe in ownership of property or not!) I think too many people are looking at this from too narrow of a perspective. In the long run technology shapes laws and not the other way around. The only reason we have copyright is because someone invented the printing press. The only reasons we have the RIAA and MPAA is because of Thomas Edison, et al. It is reasonable to ask if existing laws and property rights should be maintained with the advent of new technology, or if it is in (almost) everybody's better interest to drop them as quickly as possible. Do current copyright protection ultimately benefit consumers and music creators or is, instead, it is mainly instrumental in creating abnormal profits for intermediaries such as record companies and music publishers. Basically, the music and movie industry argues that giving away copyrighted music for free violates its intellectual property, and indeed, compares the downloading of copyrighted music to piracy or theft. Permitting such theft, music producers argue, is socially very damaging. No one would have an incentive to produce music were Napster and similar organizations allowed to operate. This arguments has two parts: the first says that downloading music is theft, and the second says that if downloading is permitted the incentive to produce good music would disappear and we would all be living in a gray and sad world, instead of enjoying at the lyrics of the Iglesias family. The first statement is the silliest and easiest to dismiss: it does not require a Ph.D. in economics to see that downloading music, copyrighted or not, is quite different from theft in the ordinary sense of the word. Theft, as we ordinarily mean it, amounts to depriving the owner of the use of the object of his property or, at least, greatly reducing his access to it. If you steal my MP3 player, I can no longer use it. Whether you use it, resell it, or just throw it away, it is theft. In this sense intellectual property is quite different than property of material objects. Indeed, the argument is not over the right of the music industry to sell its product, nobody is stealing CDs via P2P, but rather over their ability to regulate the future use of their products by those who purchase them. As far as we know, no one has accused people who make available music from their CDs on the Internet of having stolen the CDs. Rather the question is, having purchased the CDs, the music industry would like to prevent us from further distributing the music. But is there a valid economic rationale for this? If I purchase a car, I can resell it in direct competition with the manufacturer of the car. In fact, also if I purchase a CD I can resell it. I can also let other people listen to it in my home or backyard, or take it to the office and make it available to my colleagues, or play it during a gigantic party. The limit, apparently, is reached when I start making copies of it, either virtual or not. Strangely enough I can make copies of my Armani's suit, as long as I do not put an Armani label on it, but I cannot do the same with my CDs. Why? Why indeed should I not sell on the Internet the music I have purchased, in direct competition with the producer (if you can call the RIAA a producer of anything except misleading hot air)? This is where the second part of the RIAA argument comes in: you should not have the right to resell the music because, by breaking the monopoly, you eliminate the incentive to produce further good music. What is at issue, then, is not theft, but rather the legal protection of a monopoly. Naturally, if the monopolist has to compete with his own past customers then his ability to extract money from his new customers is reduced. One consequence of this is that it would be much more difficult to price discriminate, charging a higher price to those customers who place a particularly high value on his product. Naturally, not having to compete with one's customers has a great deal of value, and it is not terribly surprising that the producers of music wish to protect it. To better protect themselves, in fact, these un-natural monopolies have recently (March 2000) created the Copyright Assembly, which ... enlists into its membership the vast array of American enterprises involved in sports (professional football, basketball, baseball, hockey, NASCAR, NCAA), music, song-writing, advertising, software, broadcasters, both networks and stations, cable, movies, publishing, television programs, home video,
[e-gold-list] FDIC Insurance- follow up
Hello, I realized I should probably clarify after my last comment that VALIS is not an aggregator, the accounts we open are completely individual accounts that we have no access to after they are opened. I only know about the FDIC insurance from another project I am working on: www.gegypay.com . Thank you, David Gendron http://www2.valisinternational.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Business Idea
SV Gisp, Check out: mp3DownloadHQ http://www.mp3downloadhq.com They don't sell CDs but they're worth a look see... Courtesy of: AmeriConn - eCurrencyCrawler http://www.americonn.com/cgi/ecc/search/search.pl?Terms=music Cheers, RJ Guys, I am a lover of all kinds of music and I am not able to find any online merchants accepting e-gold for CDs. Will someone please take my advice and start doing this. It might also be a good idea if you will ship worldwide since e-gold is worldwide. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
http://www.msnbc.com/news/817175.asp takes a look at the Eldred v. Ashcroft case, which deals with whether the copyrights for books, films, music, and cartoons (especially Steamboat Willie!) should go on forever (or for a lot longer, as per the 1998 Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act which the US Congress managed to pass before Congressman Bono skied into a tree and passed away). Anyway, I try to understand both sides of this debate, and everyone knows I like JP May a lot, but I'm more and more drawn to the free-as-much-as-possible side of things. Professor Lessig is a very smart guy, though, and I haven't seen his views *effectively* challenged. I think that the spread of person-to-person money over the internet will lead inevitably to tips/micropayments for music, and even what we'd consider a small tip can be big money for an artist. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
Music for the new Millenium. Read to you by the storyteller at your very own public library. Yes, Grandson, I said to the small person sitting on my knee, There was a time when you could logon and discuss how Gold and Silver money would help the world become a better place. Of course, that was before the copyright wars. It started as a simple discussion, with a few of the enlightened people offering their thoughts on theft and who was more important, the musician or the publishing company. You would laugh at some of the silly notions they had about music back then. But Grampa, said my grandson, Didn't everyone know who should make the music? Sure they did Grandson, but that was before we had music police to prevent bad vibes from harshening our mellow. Nowadays, nobody has to worry about the wrong kind of music being played. Of course we still hear stories about free music being played late at night, in the abandoned recording studios, but those are just to scare rebellious teenagers. You know the kind I'm talking about. They refuse to get up and listen when the Musicmobiles play the national anthem every morning and they only buy the three recording minimum required by law. Why, some of them even refuse to pay the fines for not returning the music when it expires. But Grampa, don't you have a big stack of CD's hidden right here in the basement? I saw you down here just last night, wearing headphones. Our teacher says headphones ought to be illegal, 'cause nobody can tell what kind of music you're hearing. Shhh Grandson, those CD's will be yours someday, along with my boxes of Gold and Silver coins buried under the floorboards. Now you remember, Never tell anyone that you've heard the music and for God's sake, don't ever whistle where anyone can hear you. Yes Grampa, I promise. That's a good boy, now go upstairs with your parents and listen to the Chairman on the 3D, he wants us all to hear him play Hail to the Chief on his harmonica tonight. Remember to clap real loud so the neighbors will know we are listing too. Here's a golden dollar to turn on the 3D set, wash your hands after you use it. Thank you Grampa he said, running upstairs as I sat back, put on the headphones and prepared to count my Maples to the illegal sound of Eric Clapton... - Next week, We'll be reading to you from the collected works of the Beatles and Janis Joplin. Sorry, no recordings will be available due to the copyright suit against the Library. Thank you for supporting your public library. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 12:41 PM 10/9/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If Ayn Rand was still around she'd probably SHOOT anyone who napster'd a copy of one of her novels or movies. If I use photoshop without paying for it for awhile, I openly call that THEFT. Because that's what it is. THEFT. Private property ... like it or lump it! :) You can call it theft, if you like, and the Napsterites can call it freedom, but you're both being deliberately imprecise, so as to ride the coattails of an argument you're unable to make (or win) head-on. As several people have pointed out, theft has a traditional (and relatively precise) meaning, which doesn't include the making of copies without a copyright owner's permission. Stealing a copy of Photoshop means walking out of CompUSA with the CD hidden under your coat. Infringing Adobe's copyright would be a better way to describe what you're doing if you make a copy of someone else's Photoshop CD (whether you use it for even 10 minutes - or not at all). Both of those activities - theft and copyright infringement - are currently illegal in the United States, though copyright infringement isn't necessarily criminal. Both activities involve interfering with what the law currently defines as another person's property - but the scope and nature of those property rights are neither divinely inspired nor unchangeable. Our local governments' definitions of property and property rights depend a lot to do with what our current ideas are about what sorts of people and what sorts of activities deserve to be compensated, and which don't. Now, the fact that there's a lot of politics involved in the decisions about who gets paid when doesn't mean that it works out very well for each of us to decide on our own which laws we're going to follow and which we're not - things go a lot smoother if we can count on each other to act within the guidelines we've agreed upon, and to change the guidelines if they're stupid instead of just ignoring them. So if you want to say that people who infringe copyrights are lawbreakers (just like people who drive too fast or don't report all their income or don't tell the Man about all their guns), you'll get no argument from me. But if you want to call them thieves, you leave me wondering what's so weak about your position on the issue that you're trying to hide behind distortions and misunderstanding. -- Greg Broiles -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PGP 0x26E4488c or 0x94245961 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 11:20 AM -0500 on 10/9/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoever owns the music, owns the music, end of story. Wrong. Who ever owns a *copy* of the music, owns a *copy* of the music. The fact that the law isn't keeping up with the technology isn't the fault of the technology. It would be quite simple to create a recursive-auction market for *copies* of a given bit of content/software that would pay *substantial* amounts of money for the *first* copy, and marginally over the cost of bandwidth for the last copy. Look, Ma, the people who make the best new stuff make the most money, and, guess what, no lawyers... Hettinga's definition of Intellectual Property: If it's encrypted, and I have the key, it's my property. Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
Anyway, I try to understand both sides of this debate,... check out Baumol http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691096155 who's about the only interesting thinker on the issues, if you're interested.. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can resolve all things into itself, and turn itself into all things' Samuel Butler --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: ATM/Debit cards on sale....
At 02:35 PM 9/10/2002 +1000, I wrote: Certainly we on this list would like to know as much as possible about http://digibuck.com before taking up any offer. From http://digibuck.com/fees.html Cost of card: $29.95 Lost card replacement fee: $10.00 Monthly Service fee: $4.00 Domestic ATM Withdrawal: $1.00 International ATM Withdrawal: $1.50 Point of Sale Purchase (POS): $0.75 Card to Card Transfer*: $1.00 *The card to card transfer fee is paid by the receiver. From http://digibuck.com/faq.html You can fund your card using Money Orders, Cashiers Checks, Bank Transfer, Money Gram and all major E- currencies. There is a 2.5% fee when you use e- currencies to fund the cards. How does this compare to those Fidex cards or whatever cards Graham Kelly is selling? Ian Green http://iangreen.2cw.org/ http://ao.com.au/e-gold.htm --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] HAMMERED!
US markets HAMMERED today ... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can resolve all things into itself, and turn itself into all things' Samuel Butler --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
If I am selling a CD, I am not selling the physical item, but the music on the CD itself. The same goes if I write a novel, as I am not selling the bound paper, but the story therein. If I spend the next 6 months in my attic writing a sequel to Atlas Shrugged, and the moment I begin to sell them someone posts the entire thing to the internet and everyone downloads it for free, where is the justice in that? We can argue all we want as to whether the book stores, publishing houses, and record labels make too much money or have too much control, and even if we like them or not. But then I could always sell the book or music direct/start my own publishing company/start my own bookstore. But how is it that people enjoying and benefiting from my story do not have to compensate me for what I made? These people may not be physically taking printed books from my hands, so I may not be deprived the use of some physical object in my possession, but is that relevant? If people are benefiting from my labor? Whenever something is sold, the seller should be able to attach any conditions he wants to that sale. If I write my book, I should be free to only sell it to those who will agree to read it while standing on their head and eating easy-cheese. This is a contractual element to the sale, and if people don't like it, then they can not buy my book. The concept that the day after a CD goes on sale in the store you can set up a booth nextdoor and sell copies for $1, because you bought the legitimate CD yesterday and now own it, makes absolutely no sense. When something is sold, you don't always get unlimited access to the product, such as fee-simple and restricted deeds in real estate, or complete discretion in the use and resell of the item, such as when you lease a car. The prevailing mentality here has wide-spread repercussions. Take cable-tv for example. What if 10 people in a major metropolitan area subscribed to cable and then hooked everyone else up for free? What if Apple computer spent 2 years developing a new OS and the day after they release it some guy offers copies for $5 because he owns it? Or what if Merk spent 10 years developing a new cancer drug, and the moment it goes on the market I buy a bottle, and since I own the pill the next day I turn out copies by the thousands? I am amazed at the circumlocutional lengths to which people are going to try to justify and obfuscate their position, which is I want my stuff for free. And for those who say maybe it's time laws and property rights should change, rights pre-exist and are independent of laws. Laws only come into effect later to protect fundamental and inalienable rights. - John --- http://cambist.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
You're just one of those whacky capitalists, John! :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'Gold is the soul of all civil life, that can resolve all things into itself, and turn itself into all things' Samuel Butler --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Affiliate commissions hijacked
Hi: Interesting to note the hackers aren't just taking gold. Dr. Ralph F. Wilson, E-Commerce Consultant reports... A significant slice of the affiliate commissions paid out by the Big Three affiliate networks -- BeFree!, LinkShare, and Commission Junction -- are being subverted by software plug-ins on consumers' web browsers that cause the affiliate commissions to be channeled to software developers and other organizations, rather than to the affiliates whose links direct the consumer to the merchant's site. Author and affiliate expert Shawn Collins told the New York Times, I probably saw a drop-off of 30 percent in income for the past six months. How the Diversion Works While the problem is more than a year old, here's what's causing the uproar today. When consumers download music-swapping software, they are asked to show support for the software developer splitting the affiliate commission between the developer and the shopper. When the consumer comes to a merchant site that offers an affiliate commission, a browser plug-in (installed at the same time as the music software) indicates this to the shopper and directs the shopper to a site to pick up the software developer's affiliate cookie which overwrites a previous affiliate cookie. When the sale is made, the software developer gets the affiliate commission. Some promise the shopper a piece of that commission as a rebate, giving the shopper an incentive to cooperate. Wurld Media or TopMoxie software bundled with file-swapping programs Morpheus and LimeWire, respectively, are said to divert affiliate commissions. Details at... http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt7/affil_hijack.htm ___ George Matyjewicz, Chief Global Strategist GAP Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.gapent.com/ Book Author and Doctoral Candidate in Training Moderator of E-Tailer's Digest http://www.etailersdigest.com/ Automated Press Releases http://www.automatedpr.com/ Board Member AIB #34 http://www.aib-world.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
John, If I spend the next 6 months in my attic writing a sequel to Atlas Shrugged, and the moment I begin to sell them someone posts the entire thing to the internet and everyone downloads it for free, where is the justice in that? Respectfully, I suggest that it is your responsibility to figure out a free-market way to do business which profits yourself. If you fail to solve you own marketing and distribution problems it is not other people who are at fault and are obligated to make up the deficiency. But how is it that people enjoying and benefiting from my story do not have to compensate me for what I made? These people may not be physically taking printed books from my hands, so I may not be deprived the use of some physical object in my possession, but is that relevant? If people are benefiting from my labor? No one is obligated to compensate you because you benefit them unless they have agreed to do so. That is what a free market is. Your problem is to figure out a way to distribute your work in such a way so as to secure such agreement. There is a person, A. J. Galambos, who advocates your point of view and takes it to its logical conclusion. You might be interested in reading his work. Whenever something is sold, the seller should be able to attach any conditions he wants to that sale. If I write my book, I should be free to only sell it to those who will agree to read it while standing on their head and eating easy-cheese. This is a contractual element to the sale, and if people don't like it, then they can not buy my book. Exactly right. And if you fail to explicitly make such a contract (which can sometimes be implied by customs of the trade) then you can't make up pretend terms after the fact just because you are not satisfied with the results. And for those who say maybe it's time laws and property rights should change, rights pre-exist and are independent of laws. Exactly right, again. However, many laws do not actually protect rights but violate them. Patent laws are a prime example of this. Laws only come into effect later to protect fundamental and inalienable rights. If we are lucky that is the case. Too often it is the opposite. Best, CCS --- - Virtual Phonecards - Instant Pin by Email - -Large Selection - Great Rates- - http://speedypin.com/phonecard/start.mhtml?af=743 - --- *** * Craig Spencer * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
John Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote At 06:27 PM 10/9/2002 -0700, Craig Spencer wrote: John, If I spend the next 6 months in my attic writing a sequel to Atlas Shrugged, and the moment I begin to sell them someone posts the entire thing to the internet and everyone downloads it for free, where is the justice in that? Respectfully, I suggest that it is your responsibility to figure out a free-market way to do business which profits yourself. If you fail to solve you own marketing and distribution problems it is not other people who are at fault and are obligated to make up the deficiency. One approach is subscription. Another is to depend upon social pressures for compensation (e.g., tipping). Lastly, one can use the Hollywood completion bond model. In this third approach an artist must build up a sufficient reputation so that fans or other sponsors are willing to pay for the completed work before its done (or even started). And for those who say maybe it's time laws and property rights should change, rights pre-exist and are independent of laws. Exactly right, again. However, many laws do not actually protect rights but violate them. Patent laws are a prime example of this. Laws only come into effect later to protect fundamental and inalienable rights. I believe Thomas Paine discussed there in detail. The natural rights which [man] retains [in society] are all those in which the power to execute it is as perfect in the individual as the right itself. Among this class are all the intellectual rights, or rights of the mind; consequently religion is one of those rights. The natural rights which are not retained, are all those in which, though the right is perfect in the individual, the power to execute them is defective. . . . He therefore deposits this right in the common stock of society, and takes the arm of society, of which he is a part, in preference and in addition to his own. . . . Property rights are generally considered in the latter class. So even though property rights preexist laws, unless one is personally powerful enough to prevent others from taking your property you need to depend on society to defend and enforce this right. That being said, society can have no greater moral authority than that afforded it by any single member, and there is nothing inherently immoral if one is sufficiently personally empowered to enforce one's rights in opposition to society's. steve --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
Ok I've been a subscriber to this list for, well lets say a very long time and have seen some real wild discussions on it, But this one is getting nuts, what started this was some fellow looking to buy a CD or two using some E-Gold (yes banana gold is they way to go!) and it's turned into this wild and crazed copy write topic! Now I've been on the net since it was in black and green, yup no pics no music only a few guys who were hacking each other just for fun, now back than none of us ever could have imagined a discussion like this ever taking place! I personally think this is all way over rated, I really can't believe that the music companies and artists are losing even half of what they claim, they still drive the BMW's or have the scoffers and still live in the big houses, there are so many bands out there that have enjoyed the fact that they were listened to at all because of the net because some one got hold of a demo and posted it all over the net. As for who owes what well think about this, being Webster publishes the most complete dictionary to date for many many years why not argue that they have the copy writes for all the words and every time we speak write or sing we need to be paying them a royalty for using the word? And so who is getting the royalties for Batoveens work he 's still real popular and wrote some great tunes but I don't hear about his descendents getting paid every time some one downloads one of his tunes. Hence I believe a earlier posting stated both sides are fighting for the sake of fighting and there is no way either side can win SO TRUE! just my golden thoughts (worth about as much as OS Gold) Chuck --- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 04:45 PM 10/9/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/napster.htm the legal protection of a monopoly monopoly is a synonym for property. I think you're talking about one's personal monopoly power over one's own property, and I would agree with you there. But if you're using the word monopoly in the wider sense of sole power over an entire market, I must disagree with you. Ayn Rand asserted that monopolies in the latter sense of the word can only be maintained by coercion and therefore cannot arise under laissez-faire capitalism. She meant government coercion primarily, but I would generalize that to include coercion from any powerful gang. So the next time you feel undiluted admiration for a large enterprise, keep in mind that their size may be due in large part to government regulations and subsidies designed to stifle competition. Many of us who are critical and skeptical of big businesses may be tarred for using socialist code words, when in fact we are critical and skeptical precisely because we are die-hard laissez faire anarcho-capitalists. So screw Starbucks -- buy Capulin! http://capulin.com/ -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Dow : Au 22.75
Dear Friends, Well, it has been a busy time. Gold Barter Holdings is busy distributing our new business plans to interested individuals, making money hand over fist, and doing other clever things. However, I keep an eye on the Dow, and it has reached down further, again. Priced in ounces troy of gold, the Dow Jones Industrials are now at 22.75. Keep in mind that I fully expect the Dow to drop to a price of one ounce troy of gold before it reaches for new high ground. This may happen as a result of gold reaching for new high dollar price levels, perhaps $350 an ounce before year's end. It is noteworthy, though, that persistent efforts to keep the dollar price of gold low continue to be seen. Not much has been done to change that behavior, though incredible efforts have been made by folks like Reg Howe. Accordingly, you'll likely see the Dow continue to plummet, off and on, for several years. Enjoy. Regards, Jim http://cambist.net/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Idea
At 6:51 PM -0600 on 10/9/02, John Kyle wrote: If I spend the next 6 months in my attic writing a sequel to Atlas Shrugged, and the moment I begin to sell them someone posts the entire thing to the internet and everyone downloads it for free, where is the justice in that? It's not justice. It's foolishness. It's what you get for not auctioning that content off to the highest bidder, over, and over, and over, until the bid price is cheaper than your cost of storage. I expect that if you did that, you'd make more than the average book advance, which is what most authors end up with, and, probably, *way* much more, if people want what you're selling. Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
