[e-gold-list] Re: another prediction
I understand what you are saying but it is irrelevant to the question of currency effect I brought up. Not that it matters, but ... Only irrelevant because you constantly change what you are saying. No, I have been talking about the same currency effect all the time. Here's something simple for you to follow along... Say a business starts making 50% of the profit from a given customer. But the number of customers increases by 100%. End result, same profit. Yes, that is a possible example. Had the currency effect not decreased the profit per customer by 50%, the results who have doubled. So, just because the currency effect was neutralized by other factors does not mean it does not exist. This is fairly basic. Something like the gold price changing would affect a property like TGC (or indeed -- IG systems generally!!) in many ways. That is obvious, but it doesn't do away with the currency effect, which is part of basic economics, whether you want it or not. And don't forget that it is a knife that cuts both sides. If the price of gold goes down, you will receive more ounces of gold for that same CD you are selling at fixed '$ worth of gold' At the TGC people will easier bet 1 gram stakes if one gram is $12 , than if 1 gram is $120 If 1 gram is only $1 , more people will do 5 or 10 gram bets... Also, again not that it matters, But what I do know is: Somebody who hears about TGC and signs up, goes to a market maker and buys $1000 worth of gold to blow it in the casino. At current price of gold he takes a little less than 3 ounces to TGC. When the price of gold doubles, he will go with only 1.5 ounces. no matter how endlessly you state something, it doesn't make it true Danny! You have no idea at all whether the typical TG player works on a dollar basis, or a weight basis, or what type of player comes in which percentage, etc. That's true. But we have pretty good idea that over 99.9% of people's incomes are denominated in dollars (or yen,..) not in grams of gold. When the price of gold jumps 20% (like it has done over the last 3 months), people's income does not necessarily rise accordingly. When the price of gold falls 20% (like it did earlier in the year), the average person's income is not affected. People only bet a certain % of their budget (=income), a % that has historically fluctuated very little. That's why casinos typically have very stable revenues and profit. This means 99.9% of people have a fix dollar (or yen, euro) amount available for gambling every month. This fixed dollar amount means less gold if the price of gold is higher. The currency effect is inevitable, every economist knows and accepts it, and every international company calculates this effect on its business and tries to hedge this risk. But again -- perhaps I'm explaining this poorly -- let's say your point WAS COMPLETELY CORRECT. (ie, we can magically know this.) It is nothing magical. If a company has a division in Europe, doing a certain amount of business. Their business may go up or down during the quarter, by whatever factors, but when the revenues and profits from this division are brought back to the usa, they are translated from Euro into dollars, so that totally depends on the exchange rate. You still have no clue what the final outcome will be - as there are many other factors. There are a plethora of other factors, many of them difficult to predict. That's why I said: everything else being the same, TGC revenues and profits would decline by 50% in gold terms. Everything else being the same, we put all these other factors temporarily aside, and we talk about currency effect 'pur sang' Also note my use of the word would decline It is just like meteorologists will sometime discuss different factors influencing the weather seperately. They may talk about the general effect of atmospheric pressure on the weather, regardless of all other factors like temperature. They may say : everything else being the same, higher pressures would bring good weather with clear skys, lower pressures would bring clouds and rain. This is simply part of scientific method. When a complicated matter is studied, they will try to set one factor apart so that it can be studied and perhaps quantified. if something spectacular like gold went to $4000 its imposisble to say what would happen -- IG systems themselves might explode in popularity (by 100s of times, not merley 4000/380 times), or indeed they might totally go away! That growth or failure of the # people using IG systems may (or may not!) affect the # of users of (say) TGC. If you don't understand, i can't explain any more - good luck! You are discussing here some of the factors I put aside, when I talk about currency effect. But no matter what happens to the #users in your example here, when they put an order with their market maker for $1000 worth of e-gold, they will get only 0.25 ounces at $4000 gold. That is
[e-gold-list] Re: Danny's $130 !
This turing image does not defeat the automatic attack. All I need is a screen capture of the turing image combined with some OCR software, quite simple. But Danny, it's not quite simple at all! You're simply wrong! I'm sorry! I'll give you $100 right now if you can set up your computer to convert Jay's turing image to ascii text within a day. Go for it! EOQ Note above that the topic was about automated attacks on e-gold accounts. As I said to you at the time, endlessly, I am sorry if you misunderstood, or there was a misunderstanding between us. The whole context was that of something that worked on the web, on servers -- where the imagined hacker would feed it in and get the number. And where everyone can openly try if it works. There was no misundertanding at all. Before you gave this challenge I had been saying that the turing numbers on the e-gold site are worthless, and easy to crack. So, they are not effective in stopping automated attacks on e-gold accounts. You were very insisting that cracking these turing numbers was very difficult, and gave the challenge posted above. Now, you don't do automated attacks by putting it on a webpage where people can go and feed in one of the turing gif images, so it returns asci text. What would be the point? Automated attacks will be done by a little application on my computer. This application will connect to the e-gold login page via the internet, it will take out the turing gif image and convert it into asci text, so that the form can be filled automatically, without human intervention... Once I have created the code for cracking the turing images, the rest is just routine programming... My computer converts turing images into asci text. That is what you asked for in your own words above.. If you expressed poorly, that is not my mistake. I appreciate the brain of your invention is in the code, but there's not much value unless you stick it on the web so everyone can use it. The visual basic program is still available complete with source code. Anybody can see it works, and adding a few lines of code you can start doing automated attacks with it. That's what the discussion was all about.. As is unfortunately often the case, a lot of what you say is simply - bizarre, Danny. (*) it might take you 4 or 5 minutes to make your cool program work on a web page. This is not much time in the typical context of fun bets that happen on the e-gold list. Maybe someone will do it for you. Why not just do it? The challenge asked for setting up a computer to convert turing images into asci text, and that's what I delivered. I am not going to do any extras for $100. I'LL STILL HAPPILY PAY $100 waiting! Sorry, but in February 2002 gold was at $290 an ounce I am also suffering from the same currency effect I have tried to explain you. That $100 would have been 0.34 ounces back then. Which is $130 at todays rates... Cheers Danny If the actual DOLLAR FIGURE matters to you (for God's sake!) I am happy to jumble the digits and up the payout to $310, how's that! I think it would be charming to pay out after so long. It is the OUNCES FIGURE that matters to me. 100$ at the moment you lost the bet, was 0.34 ounces. incidentally you don't need a screen capture, its just a gif that's there already, as a gif. Indeed. Cracking the turing images proved much easier than I thought. No screen capture or OCR software was needed. That's probably why the images have been improved by now. Danny --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Cracking the Turing number
Danny, It seems to me that the first thing one does to protect a system from automated attacks is to forbid access attempts to the same account more than once every x (say 10) seconds. This means that even with constant attempt to crack the password and the Turing number, the cracker can't do his job in real-time. For example, I use a randomly generated password. The probability to crack it is about 1 in 10^32 cases. Even if someone has a simple password, say 10 characters long, the time required to crack it would be over 10^16 seconds. So, cracking the Turing number is useless (if the system is properly secured). Regards, George Hara www.filematrix.xnet.ro --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Cracking the Turing number
George, So, cracking the Turing number is useless (if the system is properly secured). You are missing some history. You see, a couple of years ago people WERE making automated attacks. These attacks may have been useless; I certainly never heard of them succeeding in stealing anything by them. But the constant attacks were VERY irritating to all e-gold users (and, presumeably, wasted e-gold's system resources). The Turing numbers were instituted to stop the attacks, not to prevent them from being successful. Being able to do automated reading of the Turing numbers would have allowed the attacks to be resumed. Best, CCS --- End of forwarded message --- -- - Virtual Phonecards - Instant Pin by Email - - Large Selection - Great Rates- - http://speedypin.com/phonecard/start.html?af=743 - -- ** * Craig Spencer * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Cracking the Turing number
Craig, But those people can consume E-gold's resources with or without the Turing number, just by trying a connection. I mean, the system must check for both the Turing number and password, so, even if the Turing is cracked, the system still has to check a random password and thus consume resources. If there would be no Turing, the system would (again) have to check the password. So, against a determined cracker there is not much to do, except check the IP and the accessed account before the Turing and the password. Regards, George Hara www.filematrix.xnet.ro --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Did the Framers Favour Hard Money?
Of interest: Historian Scott Trask's piece on the attitudes and actions of America's founders with regard to sound money and banking. On the one hand, they believed in fractional-reserve banking, generally following Adam Smith's currency and banking theories. On the other hand, they were resolutely opposed to government-issued paper money, fiat money, legal tender laws, inconvertible paper currency, and land banks. On the question of a national bank, they were divided. The full essay is here: http://mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1324 Frank --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] PayPal/eBay Warning
Not that it is any suprise, but I do wish that people would take the ongoing history of PayPal into consideration and not use them, ever, for anything. This is a company that has stolen more than US$ 30,000.00 from me personally, having locked an account more than two years ago for as-yet-unspecified suspicious activity. Horror story after horror story can be found at http://www.paypalsucks.com and http://www.nopaypal.com I just received this from an associate of mine who is learning the hard way about this company's tactics: I wish to inform all *** members and friends that they should stay away from Paypal and eBay Inc. These two companies are aiding and abetting hackers to steal money from their customers account. ... Paypal has repeatedly withdrawn funds from my bank and credit cards to make unauthorised payments for products I did not order for. The amount is running into several thousands of dollars, the recent was yesterday, Friday. The sum of $1,750.00 was taken from my account and made payable to people that Paypal is not ready to pursue for further investigations. ... Im pressing charges against Paypal and will be talking to a lawyer on Monday. Please spread the news to all Paypal customers and ebay lovers to beware. They may be the next victim. Regards, J*** If you want a fiat alternative to Paypal I recommend http://www.moneybookers.com . Why anyone does business with PP is completely beyond me. Frank --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Cracking the Turing number
On 15 Sep 2003, at 20:20, FileMatrix wrote: But those people can consume E-gold's resources with or without the Turing number, just by trying a connection. Perhaps so. I don't know if they are but I doubt it since the Turing number eliminated their incentive to do so. In any case it did stop all the irritating false attempts to log into my accounts cold so I was very glad they did it. Best, CCS -- - Virtual Phonecards - Instant Pin by Email - - Large Selection - Great Rates- - http://speedypin.com/phonecard/start.html?af=743 - -- ** * Craig Spencer * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Site update
ADEPT-HOSTING.NET has updated its website. To improve service and simplify the process of signing up for websites and co-location services, we have installed a database driven website. Our new site includes a client invoicing section *and* a helpdesk! We continue to provide anonymous and privacy-oriented website and server hosting. We accept E-Gold, NetPay, E-Bullion, GoldMoney and VirtualGold. http://www.adept-hosting.net Thanks! - Ken -- http://www.adept-consulting.net http://www.adept-hosting.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] PayByGold celebrates 1 year online!!
Dear Clients and Friends, we wish to share with all of you this very important moment: it was exactly 1 year ago, september 15, 2002 that we 'plugged in' www.paybygold.com and started processing orders!! This year has been full of events and accomplishments for us here at PayByGold. We started out trading a few ecurrencies and offering limited deposit/cashout options. Now we have expanded to trading EGold, Ebullion, Pecunix, GoldMoney, VirtualGold and non-gold ecurrencies such as WebMoney, MoneyBookers, NetPay and Evocash. We are also just about to add a new Australian based payment system, YowCow (www.yowcow.com), which should be integrated on our website in the next few hours. During this last year we have added the option of using your credit card for faster funding, we have added bank accounts in several countries to make exchanges easier and cheaper. Speaking of banks, I am pleased to announce that effective immediately, our clients are able to enjoy a reduced wire fee of just about EUR 5 (0.5grs of gold) when selling us their gold or any other ecurrency in exchange for a wire in EURO to a EURO country. In the last few months we have added a full Spanish version of our website and we are just weeks away from the launch of a Russian version of PayByGold! And, we are also about to finally launch our own debit card solution, It will provide privacy combined with fast funding and excellent customer service, first orders should be accepted end of this week or early next week and we expect to start shipping at the beginning of October, so make sure you will be amongst the forst to order to avoid delays in receivng the PayByGold debit card As well, our clients who are using our exclusive VISA Virtual Card (no ID, no name requirements) are now able to view their balance online directly from the PayByGold site: if you own one of our VISA Virtual Cards and have not yet received the PIN to access your baalnce, please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ! of course, while working to offer a wider range of services and options, we also keep doing our best to offer you the fastest, friendliest, more efficient service you can ask for!!! To sum things up: orders are growing, clients are happy, things look just great!!! ;o)) have a great day! marco www.paybygold.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cracking the Turing number
From: FileMatrix [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems to me that the first thing one does to protect a system from automated attacks is to forbid access attempts to the same account more than once every x (say 10) seconds. This means that even with constant attempt to crack the password and the Turing number, the cracker can't do his job in real-time. Regards, George Hara I agree with you George, but I would be concerned that such a lock out system not be used as a denial of service method for attackers. For example, a competitor could make a login attempt every nine, ten or eleven seconds to the FileMatrix e-gold account and then take advantage of the disgruntled FileMatrix customers who got bad service. As a solution it may be wise for the e-gold system to lock out only repeated attempts from the same IP address, and hope that the attacker is not coming through your own ISP and possibly the same proxy server. At least this reduces the potential for success of this method as a DNS attack. If a competitor on the same IP is attacking it may be easier to find them. Of course, something more intricate may be necessary in the face of IP Spoofing and such. I suppose I should not let it go unmentioned that some other Digital Gold Currencies such as Pecunix have a good defence against account targetting attacks. A different, public account number, for example one's e-mail address is used for people to pay you, while a secret account number is used to log in! I wonder what it would take for e-gold to reorganise the account number system. I think if they did so they should keep the existing numbers, as they are both already public, and account holders may actually like their number or have purchased convenient numbers. Therefore a new numbering system (with numbers and letters, like the GoldMoney accounts) could be used for the actual logins. Regards, Ian Green http://iangreen.2cw.org --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: ??? september 11th, 2001 family need donations ??? SCAM ?
Dear James, or send to e-gold account #1005030 sept112001family SCAM ??? Does it really matter if this e-gold message is a scam or not? It is clearly spam, if it was sent to you unsolicited. You can, therefore, report it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with full headers, and they will take some meaningless action like balance limiting the account. (Five minutes later, the spammers will have a new account and all the gold in that old one converted to cash, more than likely.) Suppose it is legit? Are you seriously going to provide money to everyone who asks for it, even if all those people are truly needy? Is it moral to give alms in public? Jesus taught we should pray in private to avoid hypocrisy, since those who pray in public are more interested in getting approval from their neighbors than having their prayers heard by God. Perhaps it is also immoral to publicly solicity alms, for the same reason. Is altruism the best you can do? Perhaps you should read Ayn Rand's book _Atlas Shrugged_ for some insight into what you owe other people. A moral society can be formulated on two basic premises: do everything you agree to do; respect all the property of every other individual. Suppose it is a scam? Scam e-mails come through my e-mail inboxes at the rate of 500 a day. I filter them heavily. Echoing scam e-mails to this list for discussion seems like a waste of time. Be advised that all those people who claim to be Nigeria's oil minister or Liberia's Charles Taylor are lying and scamming, without exception. (Even the real oil minister and the real Charles Taylor are scammers and liars.) Ultimately, whatever advice you receive from others, you must choose for yourself. Is helping the family of someone who was killed in the 11 September 2001 attack the highest and best use of your money? Don't you have yourself, and perhaps your own family to consider? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Red Cross donations down nationwide
Dear Patrick, Make sure you only donate to the official government sanctioned 9/11 charity run by the Red Cross. Oh but wait -- that turned out to be a scam too. I was delighted to read this post of yours tonight, because earlier one of the local news stations, Channel 2 - the NBC affiliate in Houston, had a news story to the effect that the Red Cross had opened a store in town offering first aid kits and gear. The reporter gave a glowing report of the store, and mentioned that Red Cross donations were down across the board, and had been down for about two years. At no time did the report mention that the reason the Red Cross has been getting fewer donations is because they have been proven to be scammers of the worst sort, preying upon the altruism of those who wanted to help the truly needy. My experiences in Africa convinced me that the Red Cross was a corrupt bureaucracy. The evidence of their abuse of the trust of donors here in the aftermath of the 11 September 2001 catastrophe added nails to their coffin. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Gold Nuggets and e-gold for Auction
Dear Joel, I wonder if this post about nuggets for sale on eBay might have inspired Frank's post about the dangers of eBay/PayPal. On Sunday, Sep 14, 2003, at 23:04 US/Central, Asiana Gold wrote: Australian Gold Nuggets for auction on ebay. It is certainly a disappointment to investors in GoldBarter.com to see eBay being used for these auctions instead. I wonder what might make GoldBarter.com more attractive as a venue for sellers. It is also interesting that you seem to ignore Frank's favorite site, FreeTraders.org which might be a good venue for sales. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Danny's $130 !
Dear Friends, This is for all you newcomers as the protagonist in the film Starship Troopers says. Danny van den Berghe seems to be a blow hard, and if you've gathered that impression, you are probably correct. There is no doubt that JP May pays reliably on bets he makes. Any thorough search of the e-gold or dgc-chat list archives will reveal that fact. JP May is also not someone for whom $100 is very much money. Obviously not, since he upped the offer to $310. JP is someone for whom a principle is worth a lot more than money, and he will pay to uphold his principles. He also won't pay if that is consistent with his principles. Here's my proof that Danny is a blowhard. Follow the logic here: Danny writes: That $100 would have been 0.34 ounces back then. Which is $130 at todays rates... JP replies: I am happy to jumble the digits and up the payout to $310, how's that! To which Danny retorts: It is the OUNCES FIGURE that matters to me. 100$ at the moment you lost the bet, was 0.34 ounces. You can see where Danny has refused an offer of $310 to put his Turing cracker on the web. That's probably why the images have been improved by now. Naturally, Danny doesn't offer to crack the current Turing number. I have found on occasion that the black lines of the radial pattern and the black numbers three and eight can overlap to make it difficult to be sure which is which. I'd love to see an automated Turing reader, on the web, now. And I'd be glad to see JP May pay off on his bet. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
