[ECOLOG-L] Tropical Ecology Research Mentors Needed

[Wendy Townsend]

OTS sponsors an Undergraduate Research Experience for Native American and
Pacific Islander students.  Research Mentors are needed to guide these
students during 6 weeks in Costa Rica, Las Cruces Biological station.  All
expenses will be covered. Dates are June 24 -August 5 2013.  for more
information on the program please go to www.ots.ac.cr/napire.   or contact
wendy.towns...@ots.ac.cr .

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Thomas J. Givnish]

The number of drunks per city is very strongly correlated with the number of 
churches per city.

On 10/09/12, Lee Dyer  wrote:
> My favorite *introduction* to this vast topic can be found in the first few 
> chapters of Bill Shipley's short book, Cause and Correlation in Biology 
> (2000). A quote from his book:
> "In fact, with few exceptions, correlation does imply
> causation. If we observe a systematic relationship between two variables, and
> we have ruled out the likelihood that this is simply due to a random 
> coincidence, then something
> must be causing this relationship."
> 
> ***
> Lee Dyer
> Biology Dept. 0314
> UNR 1664 N Virginia St
> Reno, NV 89557
> 
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> 
> 585 Robin St
> Reno, NV 89509
> 
> 
> 
> Email: nolaclim...@gmail.com
> Web: www.caterpillars.org 
> phone: 504-220-9391 (cell) 
> 775-784-1360 (office)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:57:34 -0500
> > From: devan.mcgrana...@gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation
> > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> > 
> > Hi Shelley, others,
> > 
> > Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
> > historical perspective.
> > 
> > My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
> > sure as hell provides a hint."
> > 
> > http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
> > -- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota
> > 
> > http://www.devanmcgranahan.info

--
 Thomas J. Givnish
 Henry Allan Gleason Professor of Botany
 University of Wisconsin

 givn...@wisc.edu
 http://botany.wisc.edu/givnish/Givnish/Welcome.html

[ECOLOG-L] Environmental Science and Management grad looking for work

[Joshua Burgoyne]

Dear Ecologgers,

I am a recent graduate of the University of Rhode Island's Natural
Resources Science Department currently seeking a full time, entry-level
position in ecology, conservation and/or environmental management. I have
spent a lot of time working as a research assistant on various projects in
Rhode Island, Costa Rica and Malaysia and love to do field and lab work. I
have also worked as a biological technician for the National Parks Service
and currently work part time at an environmental consulting firm. I am
looking for positions primarily in New England, most preferably Boston, but
am open to further travel if necessary. If anyone is in need of a research
assistant/fellow, or knows someone from a university, non-profit,
state/federal agency, etc. who is currently hiring, I would really
appreciate any help. I would be glad to provide a full CV to anyone who is
interested.

Thanks,

Joshua Burgoyne
(401)-248-4491

[ECOLOG-L] FIRE Wildland and Urban Interface Myth or Truth 1 Fire dependent plants?

[Kevin Robertson]

Another angle, which might in part have been the intent of the interviewee in 
question, is that many plants are dependent on environmental conditions, 
including plant community structure, which are dependent on fire, at least in a 
natural ecological context.  We know that in southeastern U.S. pine-grasslands 
that are large percentage of the of several hundred species of herbs disappear 
upon excluding fire for several years, some sooner than later, as well as many 
species of animals that depend on them.  This is because woody plants that 
would otherwise be topkilled rapidly grow and outcompete herbs through root 
competition and shading, in addition the removal of fire as a reproductive cue 
for reproduction and a means to provide bare mineral soil for seed germination. 
   

That aside, I am pretty unapologetic about saying that certain plants are "fire 
dependent" when talking about this ecosystem.  That is not to say that you 
could not get the plant to survive and reproduce in a greenhouse if you knew 
what specific environment and cues were required, but in an ecological context 
it appears to be true that populations of certain species depend on fire for 
their survival, at least there is no other process that we know which would 
take the place of fire's function in that population's survival.  A well 
studied case is that of wiregrass (Aristida stricta), which for a long time was 
thought (even if illogically) to no longer sexually reproduce, since no one had 
ever seen it flower and produce seed.  However, at the time controlled burns 
were annually applied in the winter throughout much of the region, preempting 
lightning initiated fire later in the growing season.  It was discovered later 
that burning (and perhaps lightning-initiated or accidental fire) in the 
growing season, especially May-June, did cause the grass to produce seed, and 
this corresponded to the period when lightning-initiated fires were and still 
are most common.  Grazing does not seem to have the same effect of fire on this 
species with regard to reproduction.  Is there any set of circumstances in 
which it would flower without fire?  Probably.  Would that set of circumstances 
have occurred historically without human intervention (it was around before 
Native Americans)?  Probably not, or extremely rarely.  Would wiregrass be one 
a common grasses throughout the eastern half of the southeastern U.S. Coastal 
Plain without fire?  Absolutely not. Thus, for all intents and purposes, in an 
ecological rather than theoretical or physiological context, I would say it is 
a fire-dependent species.  

Kevin Robertson   

[ECOLOG-L] 4th Box Turtle Conservation Workshop March 22-23, 2013 North Carolina Zoological Park, Asheboro, North Carolina

[Allen Sa;lzberg]

from HerpDigest -

4th Box Turtle Conservation Workshop
March 22-23, 2013
North Carolina Zoological Park, Asheboro, North Carolina

The Fourth Box Turtle Conservation Workshop, aimed at individuals actively 
engaged in box turtle 
research and conservation, will take place March 22-23, 2013 at the North 
Carolina Zoo. (There will 
be an optional field trip on the 24th). The workshop is sponsored by the 
National Box Turtle 
Conservation Committee, the North Carolina Zoological Park, the University of 
North Carolina at 
Greensboro, National Science Foundation, The HERP Project, and the Jug Bay 
Wetlands Sanctuary in 
Maryland. The deadline for receipt of abstracts is January 15, 2013.

Objectives
This workshop will focus on box turtle population status, ecology, life history 
strategies, 
systematics, and epidemiology. Box turtle populations are declining throughout 
their range, yet few 
efforts have been made to assess current population status in the interest of 
developing long-term 
conservation strategies. A major goal of the workshop is to provide current 
information, where it 
exists, on population size throughout the species' range, and to encourage 
population studies in as 
many states as possible where these turtles occur.

Abstracts
Researchers are invited to submit abstracts of 500 words or less describing 
ongoing or completed 
research related to the workshop objectives. The abstract should be submitted 
as an attachment 
(Microsoft Word format); do not paste the abstract directly into your email 
message. Include your 
name, organizational affiliation, presentation title, and indicate your 
preference for giving an oral 
presentation or a poster on the abstract document. Also, please include your 
contact information 
(email address and phone number).

Email your abstract no later than January 15, 2012 to Sandy Barnett at 
sandy.barn...@verizon.net. 
Abstracts will be reviewed by the conference organizers and evaluated on the 
basis of their 
consistency with workshop objectives and the geographic area represented by the 
project/research 
study that is described. Authors will be notified by January 30 if their 
abstract is accepted.

Keynote Speaker
Dr. Michael Dorcas of Davidson College will be the keynote speaker. He will 
discuss Eastern Box 
Turtle demography, conservation, and strategies for helping wild populations 
like engaging citizen 
scientists. Dr. Dorcas has studied the life history strategies and ecology of 
reptiles and amphibians 
for over 20 years and has published more than 75 scientific papers. In 2009, he 
was elected a AAAS 
Fellow (American Association for the Advancement of Science) and his students 
frequently win 
awards at national herpetological conferences.

Registration and Contact Information
$85 (professional); $75 (full-time students). To register on-line, to view the 
agenda, and to learn 
more about the workshop, please visit our web site at 
www.boxturtleconservation.org. If you have 
questions about the workshop, please contact John Groves at 
john.gro...@nczoo.org.

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Stephan Munch]

Importantly, the converse of  Berkeley's famous dictum is also true - lack of 
correlation does not imply the absence of causation.  For complex systems, 
causally coupled variables can alternate between periods of positive, negative, 
and zero correlations.  So, while I am inclined to agree that correlation can 
be useful for suggesting hypotheses, it is a blunt instrument in the search for 
causal connections.

Steve

On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:24 PM, Lee Dyer  wrote:

> My favorite *introduction* to this vast topic can be found in the first few 
> chapters of Bill Shipley's short book, Cause and Correlation in Biology 
> (2000). A quote from his book:
> "In fact, with few exceptions, correlation does imply
> causation. If we observe a systematic relationship between two variables, and
> we have ruled out the likelihood that this is simply due to a random 
> coincidence, then something
> must be causing this relationship."
> 
> ***
> Lee Dyer
> Biology Dept. 0314
> UNR 1664 N Virginia St
> Reno, NV 89557
> 
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> 
> 585 Robin St
> Reno, NV 89509
> 
> 
> 
> Email: nolaclim...@gmail.com
> Web: www.caterpillars.org   
> phone: 504-220-9391 (cell)   
> 775-784-1360 (office)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:57:34 -0500
>> From: devan.mcgrana...@gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation
>> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>> 
>> Hi Shelley, others,
>> 
>> Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
>> historical perspective.
>> 
>> My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
>> sure as hell provides a hint."
>> 
>> http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
>> -- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota
>> 
>> http://www.devanmcgranahan.info
> 

[ECOLOG-L] Graduate research opportunities for fungal ecology and evolution in Hawaii

[David Inouye]

Graduate research opportunities for fungal ecology and evolution in Hawaii

The Amend lab, in the Botany department at the University of Hawaii 
at Manoa, is recruiting enthusiastic and experienced graduate 
students for fall 2013. We study the ecology and evolution of fungi, 
with particular emphasis on those forming diverse communities 
associated with other organisms on land and in the ocean. To 
determine both the causes and consequences of these complex 
assemblages, we use a combination of next-generation sequencing, 
physiology, greenhouse experimentation and natural history 
observation within the natural laboratory of our beautiful Islands. 
Hawaii's isolation, diverse habitats and spectacular evolutionary 
radiations create an unparalleled setting in which conduct meaningful 
theoretical and applied research.


Potential applicants are urged to visit Dr. Amend's webpage for more 
information about our lab and the application process.


http://www2.hawaii.edu/~amend/Site/Home.html

Aloha

Anthony S. Amend
Assistant Professor of Botany
University of Hawaii
Department of Botany, 101 St. John
3190 Maile Way
Honolulu, HI 96822
am...@hawaii.edu

[ECOLOG-L] Expedition to Drakensburg South Africa - Mountain Region

[Gregg Treinish]

Dear Ecolog,

We have an upcoming expedition scheduled to leave in a week for South
Africa.  They will be there for two weeks and would love to collect data.
 Our athlete will be hiking through the mountain region.  Are there any
projects that would benefit from data collection in the area?

This individual is well trained in animal tracking.

Sorry for the short notice, this has just come our way.




-- 
Gregg Treinish
Founder/Executive Director
Adventurers and Scientists for Conservation
2008 National Geographic Adventurer of the Year
www.adventureandscience.org
406.579.9702

[ECOLOG-L] Now Hiring a Polllinator Habitat Restoration Specialist for Northeast and Mid-Atlantic Region

[Ashley Minnerath]

Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
 

 




   

  

  

  

   

  

   

 
 




 
 blueberry
bee on redbud



NOW ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS FOR A POLLINATOR HABITAT RESTORATION SPECIALIST
(NORTHEAST AND MID-ATLANTIC REGION)

 


The position will be located at the NRCS Plant Materials Center in Cape May
New Jersey

 


The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation, in partnership with the
New Jersey USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS), is pleased to
accept applications for a staff position in the Xerces Society's Pollinator
Conservation Program through October 21, 2012.

 

The Pollinator Habitat Restoration Specialist (Northeast Region and
Mid-Atlantic) will provide training and technical oversight to farmers and
conservation agency staff on native plant restoration and pollinator
conservation in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions of the U.S. The
position is located at the NRCS Cape May Plant Materials Center in Cape May,
NJ, but may move to another location in the Northeast depending upon funding
and the needs of partner agencies. This position will work closely with NRCS
biologists, plant material specialists, agronomists, and conservation
specialists in New Jersey and surrounding states to develop pollinator
conservation plans for specific farms, conduct trainings, and provide
pollinator conservation technical support.

 

The Xerces Society has been a leader in invertebrate conservation and
protection for over forty years. Over the past decade, the Society has built
a strong pollinator conservation program centered on using the best
available science and strong partnerships to support habitat restoration
efforts and educational programs across North America. We also work to shape
conservation policy at the national, regional, and state level.
Headquartered in Portland, Oregon, Xerces' Pollinator Conservation Program
currently has a team of 9 pollinator conservation technicians and support
staff in offices in California, Michigan, New Jersey, and North Carolina.

 

NRCS has been helping people help the land since 1935. Since the 2008 Farm
Bill, the NRCS targets pollinators and their habitat as a conservation
priority for every land manager and conservationist. Several Farm Bill
programs administered or supported by NRCS offer technical and financial
support for creating and enhancing pollinator habitat. NRCS entered this
partnership with Xerces to create the Pollinator Habitat Restoration
Specialist position to promote the importance of pollinators and to expand
the opportunity for growers and landowners in the Mid-Atlantic Region to
receive valuable technical assistance in support of pollinators on their
land. More information about this position and how to apply is available at:
http://www.xerces.org/job-opportunities/.
 

 


ABOUT THE XERCES SOCIETY


The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization that protects wildlife
through the conservation of invertebrates and their habitat. Established in
1971, the Society is at the forefront of invertebrate protection worldwide,
harnessing the knowledge of scientists and the enthusiasm of citizens to
implement conservation programs. To learn more about our work or to donate
to the Society, please visit

www.xerces.org.

 


PHOTO CREDIT


Habropoda laboriosa on Cercis canadensis by Nancy Lee Adamson, the Xerces
Society.



The Xerces Society * 628 NE Broadway Suite 200 Portland, Oregon 97232 USA *
tel 503.232.6639
  i...@xerces.org *

www.xerces.org

Copyright C 2012 The Xerces Society. All rights reserved.

   

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Lee Dyer]

My favorite *introduction* to this vast topic can be found in the first few 
chapters of Bill Shipley's short book, Cause and Correlation in Biology (2000). 
A quote from his book:
 "In fact, with few exceptions, correlation does imply
causation. If we observe a systematic relationship between two variables, and
we have ruled out the likelihood that this is simply due to a random 
coincidence, then something
must be causing this relationship."

***
Lee Dyer
Biology Dept. 0314
UNR 1664 N Virginia St
Reno, NV 89557

 

OR

 

585 Robin St
Reno, NV 89509

 

Email: nolaclim...@gmail.com
Web: www.caterpillars.org   
phone: 504-220-9391 (cell)   
775-784-1360 (office)




> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:57:34 -0500
> From: devan.mcgrana...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation
> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
> 
> Hi Shelley, others,
> 
> Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
> historical perspective.
> 
> My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
> sure as hell provides a hint."
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
> -- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota
> 
> http://www.devanmcgranahan.info
  

[ECOLOG-L] Call for workshop proposals US IALE 2013, Austin, Texas

[Tim Keitt]

US-IALE 28th Annual Symposium
April 14-18, 2012
Austin, Texas
Landscape Dynamics Along Environmental Gradients

Call for Workshop Proposals (Due Date: Monday, October 22, 2012):

Submissions of workshop proposals for the US-IALE 28th Annual Symposium are now 
being accepted 
through Monday, October 22, 2012. Workshop proposals should include the 
following:

1) Title
2) Objectives and description of workshop (<200 words)
3) Time block: full-day (8:00-4:30pm with lunch break) or half-day 
(1:00-4:30pm).  Full-day 
workshops will be scheduled on Sunday and half-day workshops will be scheduled 
on Tuesday.
4) Hardware/Media needs (e.g., computers for individual use, projector and 
screen)
5) Software needs
6) Other instructional materials needed (instructors are responsible for 
ordering all materials, but may 
have items shipped to local committee for convenience)
7) Additional important information that will be needed by local committee or 
participants (e.g., 
personal laptops, pre-workshop readings, etc.)
8) Will there be a fee associated with the workshop?  If so, please provide an 
estimate and justification 
for the fee.

To submit your proposal, send the requested information to the Program
Committee at the workshop email address: usiale.workshopgmail.com.

All workshops will be assigned to locations at the conference venue (The 
Sheraton Austin at the 
Capitol).  Internet access will be provided if it is a requirement for the 
workshop.  Please use 
usiale.workshopgmail.com to submit proposals or ask workshop-related 
questions.

[ECOLOG-L] Faculty Position; Fordham University

[{JD Lewis}]

Applications are invited for a tenure-track position at the Assistant or 
Associate Professor level in the 
Department of Biological Sciences. We seek an ecologist conducting 
hypothesis-driven research in 
urban ecology. Experience using molecular tools is desirable. The successful 
applicant will establish a 
research program at Fordham’s biological field station, the Louis Calder 
Center, and participate in our 
Center for Urban Ecology (CUE). There are also opportunities to collaborate 
with scientists at the New 
York Botanical Garden, Wildlife Conservation Society, and American Museum of 
Natural History. A 
commitment to undergraduate and graduate teaching and research is required. 
Assistant Professor 
candidates must demonstrate potential to develop an externally funded research 
program. Associate 
candidates must have a record of external, peer-reviewed funding and indicate 
future directions 
using regional resources. 

Applicants should email one PDF application file containing a cover letter, CV, 
contact information for 
three references, teaching and research statements, and three reprints to 
jdle...@fordham.edu. 
Address the cover letter to Dr. J.D. Lewis, Chair, Department of Biological 
Sciences, Fordham 
University, Bronx, NY 10458. Review of applications will begin October 29th, 
2012. Fordham 
University is an independent, Catholic university in the Jesuit tradition that 
welcomes applications 
from men and women of all backgrounds. Fordham is an EOE.

[ECOLOG-L] Calling all Californians! Webinar Invite

[Sarah Roquemore]

Recently released scientific studies about the impacts of climate change in 
California reinforce the 
need for science-based action to double our efforts to reduce the causes of 
global warming. But they 
also highlight the need to adapt to changes already taking place and prepare 
for further unavoidable 
changes in the near-term future in California: substantially higher 
temperatures, more extreme 
wildfires, flooding, rising sea levels, and other impacts.  

Will policy makers get the message? Policy makers need to understand what’s at 
stake for their 
constituents; and they need to hear it from the most trusted voices: scientists 
in their districts. Join 
the Union of Concerned Scientists for the first in a new series of webinars to 
help you be one of those 
effective messengers.

Join our free webinar for California experts: 

Our Changing Climate 2012: New Research on California’s Vulnerability to 
Climate Change 
Friday, October 12
12:30-1:30 p.m. PDT
RSVP now: http://action.ucsusa.org/site/Survey?
SURVEY_ID=17462&ACTION_REQUIRED=URI_ACTION_USER_REQUESTS



This is the first in our “A Voice for Science and Scientists in California 
Climate Policy” webinar series 
on climate literacy and legislator education in California.  On the webinar, 
Susanne Moser, Ph.D., will 
provide an overview of “Our Changing Climate 2012,” a synthesis document of 
California’s Third 
Climate Assessment, which was recently released by the California Energy 
Commission and the 
California Natural Resources Agency. The report summarizes the findings from 
more than 30 
statewide, regional and local studies on climate change impacts, vulnerability, 
and adaptation in 
California. The new assessment is intended to inform policy makers on how to 
help state and local 
communities  prepare and thrive as the climate changes. More than 25 research 
teams from University 
of California and other leading academic institutions conducted the studies. 
Dr. Moser is a Social 
Science Research Fellow at the Woods Institute for the Environment, Stanford 
University, and the 
Director and Principal Researcher of Susanne Moser Research & Consulting.

Join the webinar to learn more about the latest science on climate impacts, 
vulnerabilities and ways to 
prepare and adapt in California, ask questions, and learn how you —as an 
expert—can play a vital role 
in encouraging our state’s leaders to maintain California’s leadership on 
actions to address climate 
change. RSVP today: http://action.ucsusa.org/site/Survey?
SURVEY_ID=17462&ACTION_REQUIRED=URI_ACTION_USER_REQUESTS. 

Talk to you soon! 

Sarah Roquemore
Union of Concerned Scientists

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Wayne Tyson]

Hi y'all,

If I remember the quote correctly, it said "Correlation is not causation." 
It did not say that it didn't imply causation. The distinction is crucial, 
eh? (It appears that my initial response to the initial question didn't make 
its way to Ecolog, possibly because I neglected to approve it or because it 
was rejected.


WT

PS: Correlation is not in opposition to (v.) causation.

Let us not jump to contusions.

- Original Message - 
From: "Devan McGranahan" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation



Hi Shelley, others,

Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
historical perspective.

My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
sure as hell provides a hint."

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html







"Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
-- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota

http://www.devanmcgranahan.info


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5317 - Release Date: 10/08/12

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Martin Meiss]

Hi, Shelley,
  I'm not an epistomologist, philosopher of science, or
theory-of-knowledge guy, but I submit that once a correlation between two
phenomena is identified, the only thing we can demand in determining  which
one is causal is that it precede the presumptive effect in time.  Of
course, all of us want to know a *mechanism* of causation.  Is it
witchcraft or bacteria that makes cream sour?  We can choose between the
two by experimentation that explores possible mechanisms.  However, just
because no mechanism linking a presumptive cause to an effect has been
identified, we cannot rule out the possibility that one exists based on
some unknown principle.
  Another problem area arises when we consider statistical
aggregations vs. individual cases.  Loosely speaking, statistics show that
smoking causes lung cancer (if we rule out the possibility that there is
some unidentified factor that makes some people both prone to develop
cancer AND prone to craving cigarettes), but some non-smokers also get lung
cancer.  Thus, tobacco companies, when being sued by lung cancer victims or
their survivors, could always rightly say there was no proof that their
cigarettes had caused the case of cancer in question.  In such cases, the
determination of causality is not based on absolute scientific rigor, but
on legal principles like "the preponderance of the evidence" or "what a
reasonable person would believe."
 One can probably be completely safe by saying that smoking
increases the probability of developing lung cancer.  At that point, are we
still talking about causation?  Does witchcraft increase the probability of
cream going sour?  Maybe you should check out those references people sent
you.

Martin M. Meiss


2012/10/9 Devan McGranahan 

> Hi Shelley, others,
>
> Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
> historical perspective.
>
> My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
> sure as hell provides a hint."
>
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
> -- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota
>
> http://www.devanmcgranahan.info
>

[ECOLOG-L] Field technician needed for white-nose syndrome project

[Kate Langwig]

Field technician needed for white-nose syndrome project

A field technician is needed for work on a research project on white-nose
syndrome in bats from mid November 2012 to early April 2013. This paid
position involves extensive work underground in caves and mines including
hibernacula census counts of bats, and collection of epidermal swab
samples. The research will take place in hibernacula across multiple states
(IL, WI, MI, MN) and may require extensive travel time between sites.
Accessing sites may require cross-country skiing or snowshoeing.


Applicants must be in good physical condition, willing to work long hours,
and maintain a positive attitude while spending several hours traveling to
and from field sites. Enthusiasm for field work and a passion for research
are essential. *Applicants must be comfortable navigating caves and mines
for extended time periods, including crawls through enclosed spaces and
occasional rope work!* Applicants with experience identifying bats are
preferred.Opportunities to interact with researchers involved in diverse
aspects of bat and white-nose syndrome research.Great preparation for
graduate school. Email cover letter explaining why you are interested in
this position, resume and contact information (phone and email) for 3
references in 1 file (preferably Word or pdf) and please type only
“white-nose syndrome field tech” in the subject line of the email.

*Qualifications:*

Ability to work independently. Caving and/or bat ID experience preferred.
Applicants must be highly motivated, organized, attentive to details, and
possess strong communication skills. Requires someone who wants to meet
tough challenges and get things done efficiently. Must have driver’s
license.


$1400-1600/mo depending on experience + housing


Please reply by email to graduate student Kate Langwig, *klangwig *AT*
ucsc.edu*. We will begin reviewing applications immediately. The
application deadline is October 22, 2012.

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[Devan McGranahan]

Hi Shelley, others,

Slate recently had a great article on correlation and causation with a
historical perspective.

My favorite line: "'No, correlation does not imply causation, but it
sure as hell provides a hint."

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html







"Having nothing better to do, I set fire to the prairie."
-- Francis Chadron, 1839, Fort Clark, North Dakota

http://www.devanmcgranahan.info

Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation

[ling huang]

There is so much literature on this. A straight forward explanation with 
examples can be found on the following Stats (George mason university) link:

http://stats.org/faq_vs.htm

Ling

Ling Huang
Sacramento City College 

--- On Mon, 10/8/12, malcolm McCallum  wrote:

From: malcolm McCallum 
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] correlation v. causation
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:29 PM

See the book Correlation as Causation.
Malcolm

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Shelly Thomas  wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,The gen ed program and science departments at my university 
> are having a conversation this week about correlation v. causation.  Already 
> I am finding serious differences (even within specific disciplines) in how 
> one determines "causation."
> What do you think is required for causation (and what field are you in)?
> Thank you,Shelly



-- 
Malcolm L. McCallum
Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
School of Biological Sciences
University of Missouri at Kansas City

Managing Editor,
Herpetological Conservation and Biology

"Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" -
Allan Nation

1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea"  W.S. Gilbert
1990's:  Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,
            and pollution.
2000:  Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction
          MAY help restore populations.
2022: Soylent Green is People!

The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi)
Wealth w/o work
Pleasure w/o conscience
Knowledge w/o character
Commerce w/o morality
Science w/o humanity
Worship w/o sacrifice
Politics w/o principle

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attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
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[ECOLOG-L] REU program - Aquatic Ecology - Auburn Univ (AL) - Summer 2013

[Alan Wilson]

**PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY**   **APOLOGIES FOR CROSS-POSTINGS**

Research Experiences for Undergraduates (REU)
Warm-water Aquatic Ecology
Auburn University, Auburn, Alabama, USA
Summer 2013: May 26 to August 4
http://wilsonlab.com/reu/

We are excited to invite applications from undergraduate students to 
participate in a National Science Foundation supported summer Research 
Experiences for Undergraduates (REU) program focused on the ecology of 
southeastern ponds, rivers, reservoirs, and estuaries.  Ten 
undergraduate students will work closely with Auburn University faculty 
(Fisheries, Biology, and Forestry) to explore aquatic ecosystems, 
complete a student-driven research project, and share their research 
findings in a symposium at the conclusion of the program.  Participants 
will work closely with our mentors to develop projects on a variety of 
disciplines, including community ecology, limnology, evolution, 
fisheries management, population modeling, conservation, molecular 
biology, and microbiology.  The program will run from May 26 to August 
4, 2013 (10 weeks).   To stay up-to-date with the 2013 selection process 
and to learn about last summer's program, check us out on Facebook - 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AUREU/


Eligibility: Undergraduate freshmen, sophomores, juniors, or seniors 
graduating no earlier than December 2013 are encouraged to apply. 
Participants must be US citizens or permanent residents.


Support:  Participants will receive a stipend ($5,000) plus food and 
housing, financial assistance for travel to and from Auburn, and support 
for research expenses.


Application: For full consideration, on-line applications and supporting 
recommendation letters must be received by 15 January 2013.  The 
application is available at http://wilsonlab.com/reu/application.html


Flyer: Please help us advertise the program by posting our REU flyer at 
your institution - http://wilsonlab.com/reu/images/reu_flyer.pdf


For more information about the REU Site, visit 
http://wilsonlab.com/reu/or contact Alan Wilson at wil...@auburn.edu


--
Alan Wilson - Assistant Professor
Auburn University - Fisheries and Allied Aquacultures
www.wilsonlab.com - wil...@auburn.edu
www.cyanopros.com - 334.246.1120

[ECOLOG-L] Influence of plant genetic traits on insect biodiversity

[Stefan Meldau]

A PhD position is available in the Biodiversity Project Group of the Max-
Planck-Institute for Chemical Ecology (MPICE), Department of Molecular 
Ecology and the newly established German Center for Integrative 
Biodiversity Research (iDiv) in Leipzig. The group uses the well 
characterized   ecological model plant Nicotiana attenuata  to  identify  
genetic traits  that mediate  functional  links  within  ecological  
networks. 

We will use molecular tools (transcriptome, metabolome analysis) 
and bioassays to study the effects of specific genes (by using transgenic 
plants) on performance of single herbivore species. Mesocosm experiments in 
the newly established ecotron facility will be used to study the influence 
of plant genetic traits on herbivore population dynamics. We will also 
perform field experiments in the plants natural environment (Great Basin 
desert, Utah, USA) to verify the data we have obtained from mesocosm 
studies. In collaboration with the Ecological Modeling Department of the 
Helmholtz Center for Environmental Research in Leipzig (Volker Grimm), we 
will create models to simulate plant productivity and herbivore population 
dynamics. These results will be important to formulate general hypotheses 
about the underlying mechanisms shaping plant-insect interaction networks 
and thereby, biodiversity.

We are seeking for a highly motivated candidate with strong 
background in insect and plant ecology and physiology. The project will 
initially start at the MPI in Jena, but will continue at the iDiv in 
Leipzig by the end of 2013. 

We offer exciting research questions, state-of-the art equipment and an 
excellent research environment. Successful candidate will receive a PhD 
fellowship. The position is available immediately and opens until filled.

Please send your application including CV, statement of research interests, 
names and e-mail addresses of two referees to:  Dr. Stefan Meldau, 
smel...@ice.mpg.de

[ECOLOG-L] Job: Field Assistants in plant disease ecology (5-6 positions)

[J Patrick Cronin]

TITLE: Field Assistants (5-6 positions)

EMPLOYER: The University of North Carolina (with the University of Minnesota)

LOCATION: Hopland, CA

JOB DESCRIPTION: We seek assistants to work full time on two NSF-funded 
projects that use a group 
of aphid-transmitted viruses and the wild grass species they infect to 
investigate the dynamics of 
generalist, vector-borne pathogens. Employment will extend from early February 
through June 2013 
at the University of California’s Hopland Research and Extension Center: 
http://ucanr.org/sites/hopland/  Work is primarily in the field with occasional 
duties in the 
greenhouse and lab. Responsibilities include collecting plant samples for 
biological and chemical lab 
assays, surveying aphid populations and enemy damage on plants, estimating 
plant species 
abundances via percent cover, weeding experimental plots, propagating plants in 
the greenhouse, 
and measuring plant physiological traits. Flexible work hours and some weekends 
required. Start and 
end dates are moderately flexible. Dorm housing and on-site transportation is 
provided, but 
assistants are responsible for their own transportation to the site. This is a 
great opportunity to 
participate in and learn about basic ecological and epidemiological research. 
Interested assistants 
can receive scientific and career mentoring, and past field assistants have 
gone on to permanent 
positions and graduate school. Website: 
http://labs.bio.unc.edu/Mitchell/ResearchFrontpage.htm

QUALIFICATIONS:
Required: Outdoor research experience, especially field work with plants, 
insects, or microbes. 
Willingness and ability to work outdoors under a wide range of weather 
conditions (daytime 
temperatures range from 45-95 ̊F, and rain is common), and to perform 
mildly strenuous field work 
for extended periods (up to 9 hours). Especially essential is a demonstrated 
ability to work 
collaboratively as part of a team and to interact respectfully in a communal 
living setting.

Preferred: BA or BS degree, with coursework in ecology/botany. Valid driver’s 
license. Experience 
measuring photosynthesis/using IRGAs; experience measuring soil nutrients. 
Familiarity with 
California flora.

TO APPLY: Please send a brief cover letter, a CV or resume, and contact 
information for at least two 
references by email to the address below. Review of applications will begin in 
late October, and 
continue until filled.

SALARY:
$10.61/hr, on-site housing included

LAST DATE TO APPLY:
15 November 2012 (rolling)

CONTACT:
Miranda Welsh
Email: pa...@live.unc.edu (preferred)
Phone: 919-357-7833

[ECOLOG-L] Herpetological Conservation and Biology New Issue Announcement - Articles open-access

[Allen Sa;lzberg]

Herpetological Conservation and Biology www.herpconbio.org/
New Issue Announcement - Articles open-access
Volume 7, Issue 2  September 2012
 
The Editorial Staff at Herpetological Conservation and Biology is pleased to 
announce the release of 
the latest issue, Volume 7(2).  This issue contains editorials and research 
articles. The editorials 
include a personal perspective on the last 100 years of herpetology by none 
other than Hobart 
Smith. We also honor his accomplishments with two additional editorials 
dedicated to herpetology’s 
own centenarian. We hope you all enjoy the latest issue and its content. Also, 
please take a moment 
to join our mailing list or our growing community on Facebook.  Signing up will 
ensure you receive 
the latest news and updates about Herpetological Conservation and Biology!
 
All of our publications are open-access and freely available to anyone 
interested, and continue to 
enjoy wide readership. The Governing Board extends its thanks to authors and 
readers alike. Our 
success is only made possible by your continued support.  
 
Cheers,

Rob Lovich, PhD.
Communications Editor
Herpetological Conservation and Biology
rlov...@herpconbio.org
 
 
Volume 7, Issue 2 (September 2012)

Editorials

Thomson Reuters reports the first official 2-year and 5-year impact ratings for 
HCB

Malcolm L. McCallum

Pioneer of Herpetology at his Century Mark: Hobart M. Smith

R. Bruce Bury and Stanley E. Trauth

Hobart M. Smith turns 100 (invited)

David Chiszar

Some notes on the last hundred years and the next stages in the evolution of 
herpetology (invited)

Hobart M. Smith

Research Articles 

Sexual dimorphism in head size in the Little Brown Skink  (Scincella lateralis).

Brian M. Becker and Mark A. Paulissen

Advantages of long-term, multi-scale monitoring: Assessing the current status 
of the Yosemite Toad 
(Anaxyrus [Bufo] canorus) in the Sierra Nevada, California, USA.

Cathy Brown, Katie Kiehl, and Lucas Wilkinson

Back to the brink: Population decline of the endangered Grassland Earless 
Dragon (Tympanocryptis 
pinguicolla) following its rediscovery.

Wendy J. Dimond, William S. Osborne, Murray C. Evans, Bernd Gruber, and Stephen 
D. Sarre

An experimental evaluation of potential scavenger effects on snake road 
mortality detections.

Kaylan A. Hubbard and Anna D. Chalfoun

A survey to determine the conservation status of Siamese Crocodiles in Kaeng 
Krachan National Park, 
Thailand.

Chution Kanwatanakid-Savini, Manoon Pliosungnoen, Anak Pattanavibool, John B. 
Thorbjarnarson, 
Chaiwat Limlikhitaksorn, and Steven G. Platt

Use of wildlife detector dogs to study Eastern Box Turtle (Terrapene carolina 
carolina) populations.

Joshua Michael Kapfer, David John Munoz, and Terry Tomasek

Decreased nest mortality for the Carolina Diamondback Terrapin (Malaclemys 
terrapin centrata) 
following removal of Raccoons (Procyon lotor) from a nesting beach in 
northeastern Florida.

Eric C. Munscher, Emily H. Kuhns, Candace A. Cox, and Joseph A. Butler

Habitat use and movement patterns of Blanding's Turtles (Emydoidea blandingii) 
in Minnesota, USA: 
A landscape approach to species conservation.

Jeanine M. Refsnider and Madeleine H. Linck

Survival of adult Smooth Froglets (Geocrinia laevis Complex, Anura, 
Myobatrachidae) in and around a 
hybrid zone.

Michael P. Scroggie

An oceanic island reptile community under threat: The decline of reptiles on 
Christmas Island, Indian 
Ocean.

Michael J. Smith, Hal Cogger, Brendan Tiernan, Dion Maple, Christopher Boland, 
Fionnuala Napier, 
Tanya Detto, and Peter Smith

Does the invasive shrub Ulex europaeus benefit an endemic Sri Lankan lizard?

Ruchira Somaweera, Nayana Wijayathilaka, and Gayan Bowatte

Michelle's Lizard: Identity, relationships, and ecological status of an array 
of parthenogenetic lizards 
(Genus Aspidoscelis: Squamata: Teiidae) in Colorado, USA.

James M. Walker, Harry L. Taylor, Glenn J. Manning, James E. Cordes, Chad E. 
Montgomery, Lauren J. 
Livo, Steve Keefer, and Charles Loeffler

Community-level response to climate change: Shifts in anuran calling phenology.

Aaron A. Walpole, Jeff Bowman, Douglas C. Tozer, and Debbie S. Badzinski

Diet of radiotracked Musk Turtles, Sternotherus odoratus, in a small urban 
stream.

Caitlin E. Wilhelm and Michael V. Plummer

[ECOLOG-L] Graduate Opportunities at University of Houston

[Pennings, Steven C]

GRADUATE OPPORTUNITIES IN ECOLOGY AND EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF 
HOUSTON

The Department of Biology and Biochemistry at the University of Houston (UH) 
welcomes applications for its graduate program in Evolutionary Biology and 
Ecology for Fall 2013.  The following faculty in the area of Evolutionary 
Biology and Ecology have opportunities available for their labs:

Blaine Cole (bc...@uh.edu) - Evolution and social behavior
Dan Graur (dgr...@uh.edu) - Evolutionary bioinformatics
Dan Wells (dwe...@uh.edu) - Evolution of development and 
behavior
Diane Wiernasz (dwiern...@uh.edu) - Sexual selection
Elizabeth Ostrowski (eaostrow...@uh.edu) - 
Population genomics and social evolution
George Fox (f...@uh.edu) - Experimental evolution and 
origin of life
Gregg Roman (gwro...@uh.edu) - Evolution of behavior
Nat Holland (jnholland...@gmail.com) - Ecology 
and evolution of species interactions
Rebecca Zufall (rzuf...@uh.edu) - Evolutionary genetics
Ricardo Azevedo (razev...@uh.edu) - Evolutionary 
genetics
Steve Pennings (spenni...@uh.edu) - Community ecology
Tim Cooper (tcoo...@central.uh.edu) - 
Experimental evolution
Tony Frankino (wafra...@central.uh.edu) - 
Evolution of complex traits
Yuriy Fofanov (yfofa...@bioinfo.uh.edu) - 
Evolutionary bioinformatics

For more information regarding the Evolutionary Biology and Ecology graduate 
program at UH see:

http://www.bchs.uh.edu/graduate/prospective-students/index.php

The deadline for application of prospective students is February 1st, 2012.

[ECOLOG-L] Disease Ecologist position, Cary Institute, open rank

[Rick Ostfeld]

Disease Ecologist – Open Rank

The Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies in Millbrook, NY seeks a Disease 
Ecologist to join the scientific staff at the level of Assistant, Associate, or 
Senior Scientist.  We seek an empirical or theoretical ecologist whose research 
focuses on the ecology of human disease in the context of environmental change. 
   Position is 12-month, full time, 100% research.  Applicants must have a PhD; 
postdoctoral experience preferred.

The Cary Institute is an independent, not-for-profit research and education 
institution in the Hudson River Valley of New York, dedicated to providing the 
science behind environmental solutions.  The permanent scientific staff, 
numbering ~16, conducts research on freshwater ecology, biogeochemistry, urban 
ecology, invasive species, climate change, ecological literacy, and disease 
ecology.

Please submit in pdf format a CV, brief statement of research interests, up to 
five publications, and three letters of recommendation to: Human Resources, 
Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies, Job Ref. 12019, to 
j...@caryinstitute.org

Review of applications begins December 3, 2012.

EOE/AAD/Min/Fem/Vet/Disab


*
Richard S. Ostfeld, Ph.D.
Senior Scientist
Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies
Box AB, 2801 Sharon Turnpike
Millbrook, NY 12545 USA

845 677-7600, ext 136

rostf...@caryinstitute.org
http://caryinstitute.org/people_sci_ostfeld.html

*

[ECOLOG-L] Interested in PhD in Industrial Ecology, LCA and Systems Sustainability (Australia)?

[Anthony Halog]

Dear Colleagues and Students:

Good Day! I have started a new academic position at the University of
Queensland (UQ), Brisbane, Australia. I am currently building  a new
Research Group in Sustainable Production and Consumption. I am actively
looking for graduate students who are passionate to pursue a Masters of
Research or PhD in Industrial Ecology, Life Cycle Assessment, Cleaner
Production, Eco-efficiency and Sustainability Analysis with particular
application to renewable energy (e.g. solar, biofuels), food,
transportation, mining, and tourism industries.

UQ (http://www.uq.edu.au/) is one of the top globally-oriented universities
(Times Higher Education World University Rankings) which is based in sunny
Brisbane, Australia.

If you are interested or you have students who are interested to pursue
graduate studies, *email me your expression of interests, CV, and other
relevant materials to a.ha...@uq.edu.au. *There are available scholarships
at the University of Queensland as well as scholarships offered by
Australian Government to students coming from developed and developing
countries. There is also a possibility to support from internal funding and
potential top-up allowance from CSIRO.

If you are about to finish or have finished your PhD, feel free to express
your interest because there are also available postdoctoral fellowships.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon,

Anthony Halog


“A Wealthy Earth is similar to a Healthy Human Body" - Anthony Halog

Re: [ECOLOG-L] FIRE Wildland and Urban Interface Myth or Truth 1 Fire dependent plants?

[Wayne Tyson]

Thank you. What is the proper term to indicate that "organisms may have 
evolved mechanisms to survive fire in some form, and indeed to proliferate?"


I am forgetting my seed physiology after more than fifty years since my last 
course, but I was thinking of what little I remember about Ceanothus sp. 
seed that, if I remember correctly, had a plug of a waxy substance filling 
the (term forgotten--please refresh my memory) the hole/tube in the seedcoat 
(I want to say hilum, but I'm not sure of that) that prevented germination 
until removed or degraded, typically by fire or heat (but not necessarily 
exclusively?). This is the example of a "fire-follower" that I had in mind 
when I was thinking of "adaptation." If this is not an example of 
adaptation, what term is appropriate?


Please tell me what I said to give you the impression that I was speaking of 
individuals rather than "phenotypic class."


Thanks for your assistance.

WT



- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas J. Givnish" 

To: "Wayne Tyson" 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] FIRE Wildland and Urban Interface Myth or Truth 1 
Fire dependent plants?



Your statement "What I INTENDED to say is that 'adapted' means that 
organisms may have evolved mechanisms to survive fire in some form, and 
indeed to proliferate" is not a correct or operational definition of 
'adapted'". I gave the example of Pinus banksiana to illustrate why.


"Average" - fitness is a property of a phenotypic class, not an individual, 
and reflects (in absolute terms) the average rate of leaving viable 
offspring. If you're concerned about what kind of "average", it's a simple 
arithmetic average for comparisons among classes at the same time and place, 
and a comparison among geometric means for comparisons among classes for 
extended periods at one place.


On 10/08/12, Wayne Tyson  wrote:

Thomas et y'all:

I quite agree that any term should be used in a manner relevant to the
context. Please expand a bit on your statement, and/or explain just what 
was

said in this thread that prompted you to make it: "That says NOTHING
WHATSOEVER about the survival of individuals."

How does "average" function in this context?

WT

- Original Message - From: "Thomas J. Givnish" 


To: "Wayne Tyson" ; 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] FIRE Wildland and Urban Interface Myth or Truth 1
Fire dependent plants?


Please be sure to use "adaptation" in a modern sense – that is, a 
variation

in a trait which on average increases the fitness of its bearer in a
specified context. That says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about the survival of
individuals.

Pinus banksiana is adapted to fire, but individuals fail to survive fire –
it has advantages (often via serotinous cones) in dispersing and
establishing on recently burnt sites.


Pinus resinosa is adapted to fire, in that individuals can often survive
fire, and have advantages in competing, surviving, and reproducing
subsequently.


Thomas J. Givnish
Henry Allan Gleason Professor of Botany
University of Wisconsin

givn...@wisc.edu
http://botany.wisc.edu/givnish/Givnish/Welcome.html

On 10/08/12, Wayne Tyson wrote:
>David and others:
>
>YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Thanks for catching this brain fart on my part.
>(Speaking of mushy definitions!)
>
>What I INTENDED to say is that "adapted" means that organisms may have
>evolved mechanisms to survive fire in some form, and indeed to 
>proliferate

>following fire, those adaptations do not mean that reproduction will not
>or cannot occur in the absence of fire. Certain closed-cone pine cones,
>for example, have been found encased in the hearwood of knobcone pines.
>However, while this pine throws a lot of seed following a fire, there are
>other ways that the seeds can be released.
>
>I am only suggesting that "it ain't always necessarily so" that organisms
>MUST have fire to reproduce at all, but certainly fire does stimulate
>reproduction following fire on a large scale.
>
>I'm still a bit tired and distracted, so I hope you will give this 
>intense

>scrutiny and perhaps come up with more corrections and interpretations.
>The generalization voiced by the fire official is a long-standing one 
>that

>persists widely, possibly still amongst some botanists, foresters, and
>even ecologists, and I am sincere in wanting to see more clarity and
>evidence. In this case, the "authority" was referring broadly to
>California chaparral. I continue to welcome well-founded examples of fire
>DEPENDENCY from around the world, as distinguished to folklore, including
>"scientific" folklore.
>
>I am eager to be corrected--based on evidence and good, solid, science.
>
>WT
>
>- Original Message - From: 
>To: ; "Wayne Tyson" 
>Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 10:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] FIRE Wildland and Urban Interface Myth or Truth 1
>Fire dependent plants?
>
>
>Wayne, help me to understand, because to me it looks like your two
>definitions are