[Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread David Andrews
This has been mentioned from time to time but still caused a problem when I
ordered a KX1 kit recently. Elecraft's documentation is correct and
perfectly clear - one of the commodity codes was 8529 9040 00. UK Customs
truncated this to 8529 90 and charged import duty at 3%. If you don't pay,
you can't get your parcel. Then the fun begins, because had all 8 (or10)
digits been taken into account, no duty was payable. I'm waiting to see if I
get a refund, but why do they still get the wrong answer?
 
David G4CWB
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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread David Pratt
My guess is that you win some and lose some, David. I was surprised that 
I didn't even have pay the VAT on my 30/80m  firmware KX1 upgrade even 
thought the UK cost was more than the £18 limit for merchandise.  I am 
not complaining, but the best of luck in your own pursuit.


73 de David G4DMP

In a recent message, David Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] said

This has been mentioned from time to time but still caused a problem when I
ordered a KX1 kit recently. Elecraft's documentation is correct and
perfectly clear - one of the commodity codes was 8529 9040 00. UK Customs
truncated this to 8529 90 and charged import duty at 3%. If you don't pay,
you can't get your parcel. Then the fun begins, because had all 8 (or10)
digits been taken into account, no duty was payable. I'm waiting to see if I
get a refund, but why do they still get the wrong answer?


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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty (fwd)

2006-06-14 Thread John GM4SLV




David et al,

It's a mystery to me too.

I received a K2 kit on Thursday which is now sitting on the bench, tuned to 
7040.00 having passed all tests at Alignment stage II, has had the filters 
aligned with noise gen/AF spectrum analyser and the MDS estimated with a XG1 on 
1uV at -138dBm (pre-amp on).


I was charged 12.74 GBP for Import Duty and had to pay Parcel Farce (over the 
phone, by credit card, to Aberdeen) before they'd release it for delivery. They 
didn't even have the decency to get it as far as my local delivery office so I 
could pay in person - Aberdeen is 200 miles south of me (a 14 hour overnight 
ferry trip each way)


It makes a mockery of the use of Commodity Codes to set the duty rate if the 
Customs routinely ignore correctly applied codes. Is it a case of charge them 
anyway and only repay the ones who complain?


I am currently away from home, but when I get back I shall be applying for a 
refund of my 12.74GBP. Can't let them get away with it every time!


Cheers,

John

K1 1672
K2 5542 (2/3 of the way there.)


On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, David Andrews wrote:


This has been mentioned from time to time but still caused a problem when I
ordered a KX1 kit recently. Elecraft's documentation is correct and
perfectly clear - one of the commodity codes was 8529 9040 00. UK Customs
truncated this to 8529 90 and charged import duty at 3%. If you don't pay,
you can't get your parcel. Then the fun begins, because had all 8 (or10)
digits been taken into account, no duty was payable. I'm waiting to see if I
get a refund, but why do they still get the wrong answer?

David G4CWB


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[Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE

2006-06-14 Thread k1um
I must have done something wrong...   When I plug the kxbd1 in it wiggles
too much..

Should I have screwed the knerled nut on the key jack?  The jack on my kx-1
is flush with the upper conver so the nut wont screw on.
Suggestions to solve the case of the wiggling KXBD1

thanks

Ken K1UM

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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty (fwd)

2006-06-14 Thread f5nhj

18 £ Waow ...

I spend 273, 68 Euros quite 300 usd to get home my K2 ... but for this crazy 
price they brought it at my door.


Europe taxes the way for governement to make money hi hi !!

jean louis
F5NHJ - REF  ARRL member
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f5nhj/ 


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RE: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE

2006-06-14 Thread Don Wilhelm
Ken,

The knurled handle screw supplied with the KXPD1 is what keeps the key
secured to the KX1 and should prevent 'wiggling'.  If it does not, look for
something projecting on the back of the paddle - you may not have tightened
the jack body adequately into the paddle base - the shoulder of the jack
should be flush with (or recessed slightly below) the aluminum block of the
paddle.

73,
Don W3FPR


 -Original Message-

 I must have done something wrong...   When I plug the kxbd1 in it wiggles
 too much..

 Should I have screwed the knerled nut on the key jack?  The jack
 on my kx-1
 is flush with the upper conver so the nut wont screw on.
 Suggestions to solve the case of the wiggling KXBD1

 thanks

 Ken K1UM


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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Stewart Baker
This is a timely thread having just collected from Parcel Force, a package 
containing my latest Elecraft kit purchase.
I was charged £9.23 import duty into the EU plus VAT on that amount.
On all my previous packages I have been charged nothing.

I phoned the Customs  Excise (or whatever they now call themselves), and was 
told that the £9.23 represents 3% import duty on the value of goods ($539).
They have an old computer system which only recognises the first 6 digits of 
the 
Commodity Code, and this is where they got the 3% duty from. The last 4 digits, 
if they bothered to look indicate that there is 0% duty. They seem to rely on 
customer action to correct errors. 

The US Postal Service Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note has clearly typed 
the HS tariff number 8529 9040 00, however the description was for:-
Transmitter Equipment with Built-in Receiver Except Mobile Phones and Aircraft 
Equipment.

This contents description on the Customs Declaration was wrong, not matching 
the 
Commodity Code, and should have referred  to Parts for use with Radio. 
This is something that Elecraft should rectify immediately.

I now have to submit a covering letter, proof of purchase and the labeling to 
get the duty and part of the VAT refunded. 
Not a Happy Bunny !!

Stewart G3RXQ


On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:17:39 +0100, David Andrews wrote:
 This has been mentioned from time to time but still caused a problem when I

 ordered a KX1 kit recently. Elecraft's documentation is correct and
 perfectly clear - one of the commodity codes was 8529 9040 00. UK Customs
 truncated this to 8529 90 and charged import duty at 3%. If you don't pay,
 you can't get your parcel. Then the fun begins, because had all 8 (or10)
 digits been taken into account, no duty was payable. I'm waiting to see if I
 get a refund, but why do they still get the wrong answer?

 David G4CWB
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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty (fwd)

2006-06-14 Thread kbgluxford
Well guys, just thank God you have all the benefits of belonging to the 
European Union.  You have to pay for the privilege somehow.


Just don't give our little Johnny Howard ideas above his station.

73
Kevin
VK3DAP / ZL2DAP

f5nhj wrote:

18 £ Waow ...

I spend 273, 68 Euros quite 300 usd to get home my K2 ... but for this 
crazy price they brought it at my door.


Europe taxes the way for governement to make money hi hi !!

jean louis
F5NHJ - REF  ARRL member
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f5nhj/
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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Larry Phipps


Technically, I think the code is

8529 9040 000 

That is what I use when sending my kits to EU. 


Larry N8LP



Stewart Baker wrote:
This is a timely thread having just collected from Parcel Force, a package 
containing my latest Elecraft kit purchase.

I was charged £9.23 import duty into the EU plus VAT on that amount.
On all my previous packages I have been charged nothing.

I phoned the Customs  Excise (or whatever they now call themselves), and was 
told that the £9.23 represents 3% import duty on the value of goods ($539).
They have an old computer system which only recognises the first 6 digits of the 
Commodity Code, and this is where they got the 3% duty from. The last 4 digits, 
if they bothered to look indicate that there is 0% duty. They seem to rely on 
customer action to correct errors. 

The US Postal Service Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note has clearly typed 
the HS tariff number 8529 9040 00, however the description was for:-
Transmitter Equipment with Built-in Receiver Except Mobile Phones and Aircraft 
Equipment.


This contents description on the Customs Declaration was wrong, not matching the 
Commodity Code, and should have referred  to Parts for use with Radio. 
This is something that Elecraft should rectify immediately.


I now have to submit a covering letter, proof of purchase and the labeling to 
get the duty and part of the VAT refunded. 
Not a Happy Bunny !!


Stewart G3RXQ

  
  

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RE: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE

2006-06-14 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
Which nut are you looking at Ken? There should be *no* knurled nut on the
jack itself. 

The jack should be just flush with the case so when you plug the KXPD1 into
the key jack, the KXPD1 aluminum body rests flush against the side of the
KX1 case. 

Then you insert the knurled *screw* into the hole in the KXPD1 body so it
passes through the KXPD1 and into the threaded hole in the side of the KX1
just above the key jack. 

Tighten that screw so the KXPD1 assembly is held tight and secure against
the KX1.

There are two holes in the KXPD1 for the knurled *screw*, so you can orient
the paddles for either left or right-handed operation. The knurled screw is
a captive screw: once you screw it into the KXPD1 hole, it then screws
into the KX1 side. When you remove the KXPD1 from the KX1 the knurled screw
remains captive in the KXPD1 hole unless you purposely unscrew it from the
KXPD1 body as well. 

That helps avoid the knurled screw becoming separated from the KXPD1 and
lost. When you put it in, you must screw it through both the KXPD1 body and
into the KX1 to hold the assembly.

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE


Ken,

The knurled handle screw supplied with the KXPD1 is what keeps the key
secured to the KX1 and should prevent 'wiggling'.  If it does not, look for
something projecting on the back of the paddle - you may not have tightened
the jack body adequately into the paddle base - the shoulder of the jack
should be flush with (or recessed slightly below) the aluminum block of the
paddle.

73,
Don W3FPR


 -Original Message-

 I must have done something wrong...   When I plug the kxbd1 in it wiggles
 too much..

 Should I have screwed the knerled nut on the key jack?  The jack on my 
 kx-1 is flush with the upper conver so the nut wont screw on.
 Suggestions to solve the case of the wiggling KXBD1

 thanks

 Ken K1UM


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Re: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE

2006-06-14 Thread David F. Reed

Ken,

Whatever you do, do not over tighten the knurled screw; this can damage 
the circuit board behind it.


Look very carefully at why it is loose...

One possibility is that the internal board there is too close to the 
case, and that the knurled screw is not holding the paddle tightly 
because the board is interfering with it as it is screwed in.


If this is the case, you will want to be very careful in repairing it; 
you do not want to grind down the board, as there is a trace near the 
edge that can be ruined by that sort of action.
You might try loosening some of the mounting screws and repositioning 
the board slightly more aft of that panel.  This may not work though.


I personally prefer the method suggested to me by Jerry McCarthy, 
WA2DKG; that is to carefully grind a very short length off the knurled 
screw end, taking car to preserve the thread end as undistorted.  That 
way, it can pull the paddle flush against the case.


73 de Dave, W5SV

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I must have done something wrong...   When I plug the kxbd1 in it wiggles
too much..

Should I have screwed the knerled nut on the key jack?  The jack on my kx-1
is flush with the upper conver so the nut wont screw on.
Suggestions to solve the case of the wiggling KXBD1

thanks

Ken K1UM
 


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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Peter Howson

Hi

It is just too difficult to check. -- I had to pay import duty on my K2 - 
but the additional modules and upgrades purchased a year later went through 
the system with no problems. So why do they use the computer excuse.


As you pay VAT on top of the duty (taxing the tax) you will get back a bit 
morte than the duty. My refund took three months with two telephone calls 
and two letters and to twist the dagger the letter with the refund 
acknowledged the additional evidence that determined the exempt nature of 
the goods -- the inference being that it was my fault all along.


But with the fiasco at the Home Office why should any other government 
department be any better.


73
Peter
GM8GAX
K2 #4027


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AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Peter Zenker

Larry, thats an old number, they changed early this year.

The actual number is: 8525 2080 900 for atransmitter with built in receiver
if is not for telefone or aeronautical use

The number for accessories is:  8529 9040 000  ( parts or acceries used for
a transmitter with built in receiver, not for telefone or aeronautical use)

73 de Peter, DL2FI
www.qrpproject.de




 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Larry Phipps
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 16:56
 An: Stewart Baker
 Cc: Elecraft Reflector
 Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty
 
 
 Technically, I think the code is
 
 8529 9040 000 
 
 That is what I use when sending my kits to EU. 
 
 Larry N8LP
 


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AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Peter Zenker
 
 The US Postal Service Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note 
 has clearly typed the HS tariff number 8529 9040 00, however 
 the description was for:- Transmitter Equipment with Built-in 
 Receiver Except Mobile Phones and Aircraft Equipment.
 
 This contents description on the Customs Declaration was 
 wrong, not matching the Commodity Code, and should have 
 referred  to Parts for use with Radio. 
 This is something that Elecraft should rectify immediately.
 

Correct description but wrong number, Steward. That must have been in the
days when they changed the number. In those days I checked the new number
for elecraft, since that day the use the new number.
The second problem: USPS does not insure  500 USD, so if you order a
complete K2, elecraft divide this into 2 shipments now. You have to pay
twice the shipping cost and 17,5% VAT on both, price of the K2 plus shipment
cost.

QRPproject is receiving big elecraft packages every second week, believe me,
I know how expensive this shipment and VAT stuff is.

73 de Peter, DL2FI

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RE: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE

2006-06-14 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
On my KX1, the knurled screw does *not* reach through the threaded ferrule
on the case, so it's not possible to damage anything no matter how hard it's
tightened (other than to strip the threads if one tries to tighten it with a
wrench!).

It sounds like there may be some variation in the screws or key bodies if
some can actually reach through the threaded section and touch the board. On
my KXPD1, the knurled screw only shows about 1/8 of screw when pressed hard
into the hole on the paddle body. That's just enough to show at most 3
threads to mate with the threaded ferrule in the after passing through the
thickness of the case. If your knurled screw shows more than 3 threads or
protrudes more than 1/8 through the KXPD1 body, it might be possible to jam
against the edge of the PC board. That's easy to check. Just remove the
bottom cover and look to see if it's coming all the way through when
tightened. 

Note that you may need to wiggle the KXPD1 slightly to get the threaded
screw to go into the threaded ferrule on the case. The screw has to be lined
up with the threads in the case before it'll tighten. 

Ron AC7AC 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David F. Reed
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX-1 KXBD1 KEYER ISSUE


Ken,

Whatever you do, do not over tighten the knurled screw; this can damage 
the circuit board behind it.

Look very carefully at why it is loose...

One possibility is that the internal board there is too close to the 
case, and that the knurled screw is not holding the paddle tightly 
because the board is interfering with it as it is screwed in.

If this is the case, you will want to be very careful in repairing it; 
you do not want to grind down the board, as there is a trace near the 
edge that can be ruined by that sort of action.
You might try loosening some of the mounting screws and repositioning 
the board slightly more aft of that panel.  This may not work though.

I personally prefer the method suggested to me by Jerry McCarthy, 
WA2DKG; that is to carefully grind a very short length off the knurled 
screw end, taking car to preserve the thread end as undistorted.  That 
way, it can pull the paddle flush against the case.

73 de Dave, W5SV

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I must have done something wrong...   When I plug the kxbd1 in it wiggles
too much..

Should I have screwed the knerled nut on the key jack?  The jack on my 
kx-1 is flush with the upper conver so the nut wont screw on. 
Suggestions to solve the case of the wiggling KXBD1

thanks

Ken K1UM
  

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Re: AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Stewart Baker
Sorry Peter, but I checked the number against the description with our Duty 
people today 14/06/2006. Their document says 8529 9040 00 = Parts for Radio 
which is what a kit is.

I am pleased that I did not know about your second point while I was waiting 
for 
my package. Anyway everything arrived safely, and it is just the reclaiming of 
duty from the government.

I only thought that the EU was a problem for it's member countries, now I see 
that it is a problem for the rest of the world.

Oh well - off to get a beer !

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:46:43 +0200, Peter Zenker wrote:


 The US Postal Service Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note
 has clearly typed the HS tariff number 8529 9040 00, however
 the description was for:- Transmitter Equipment with Built-in
 Receiver Except Mobile Phones and Aircraft Equipment.

 This contents description on the Customs Declaration was
 wrong, not matching the Commodity Code, and should have
 referred  to Parts for use with Radio.
 This is something that Elecraft should rectify immediately.


 Correct description but wrong number, Steward. That must have been in the
 days when they changed the number. In those days I checked the new number
 for elecraft, since that day the use the new number.
 The second problem: USPS does not insure  500 USD, so if you order a
 complete K2, elecraft divide this into 2 shipments now. You have to pay
 twice the shipping cost and 17,5% VAT on both, price of the K2 plus shipment
 cost.

 QRPproject is receiving big elecraft packages every second week, believe me,
 I know how expensive this shipment and VAT stuff is.

 73 de Peter, DL2FI


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Re: AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Larry Phipps


The 8529 9040 000 number that I use is the correct one for my kits, I 
believe, as my kits are considered accessories. What I was pointing out 
is that the last 0 may be important in their system, and it appeared 
to be omitted.


Larry N8LP



Peter Zenker wrote:

Larry, thats an old number, they changed early this year.

The actual number is: 8525 2080 900 for atransmitter with built in receiver
if is not for telefone or aeronautical use

The number for accessories is:  8529 9040 000  ( parts or acceries used for
a transmitter with built in receiver, not for telefone or aeronautical use)

73 de Peter, DL2FI
www.qrpproject.de

  
  

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Re: AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Larry Phipps



Not to mention the major headache that RoHS compliance is causing the 
rest of the world.


Larry N8LP


Stewart Baker wrote:
Sorry Peter, but I checked the number against the description with our Duty 
people today 14/06/2006. Their document says 8529 9040 00 = Parts for Radio 
which is what a kit is.


I am pleased that I did not know about your second point while I was waiting for 
my package. Anyway everything arrived safely, and it is just the reclaiming of 
duty from the government.


I only thought that the EU was a problem for it's member countries, now I see 
that it is a problem for the rest of the world.


Oh well - off to get a beer !

73
Stewart G3RXQ

  
  

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Re: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Back in 2003 my K2/100 plus options came in under Commodity Code 8525 2099 
00,  Electronic Kits, which attracted 0% duty, although UK Customs did 
manage to add £10 under 'Other Government Charges'.  No doubt Customs and 
Excise have since changed the Code as part of a 'make work add confusion' 
exercise.


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD




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Re: AW: [Elecraft] UK import duty

2006-06-14 Thread Mike Harris
G'day,

snipo
I only thought that the EU was a problem for it's member countries, now I 
see
that it is a problem for the rest of the world.
snipo

Not a problem here, no vat, no duty except on booze and cigs.  None of 
that RoHS stuff here either, yet.

We have signed up to Kyoto (sp?) though.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO 

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[Elecraft] VERTICALS

2006-06-14 Thread John Wiener


Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention SteppIR, though I  
seem to remember a mention of it earlier.


I do not have one, but I've seen articles showing one masquerading as  
a flag pole.


As many know, the SteppIR has a metal tape element that is metered  
out from the base within a PVC (I think) tube.  The antenna element  
can be shortened/lengthened remotely to maximize performance on any  
HF band.  This design intrigued me.  Seems many of us end up retiring  
in CCR environments.  Who can argue with a good ol' American flagpole?

http://www.steppir.com/

(I have no connection with the company.)

John
AB8WH
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Re: [Elecraft] VERTICALS

2006-06-14 Thread mperrin
I have a SteppIR Big Vert [10-40 meters] and it works great.  Mine is
hidden in some shrubs and a small tree on back of my small city lot.  I
use it on 40 and 30 and love it.

73, Mark N7MQ


 Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention SteppIR, though I
 seem to remember a mention of it earlier.

 I do not have one, but I've seen articles showing one masquerading as
 a flag pole.

 As many know, the SteppIR has a metal tape element that is metered
 out from the base within a PVC (I think) tube.  The antenna element
 can be shortened/lengthened remotely to maximize performance on any
 HF band.  This design intrigued me.  Seems many of us end up retiring
 in CCR environments.  Who can argue with a good ol' American flagpole?
 http://www.steppir.com/

 (I have no connection with the company.)

 John
 AB8WH
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RE: [Elecraft] VERTICALS

2006-06-14 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
John AB8WH wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention SteppIR, though I  
seem to remember a mention of it earlier.

I do not have one, but I've seen articles showing one masquerading as  
a flag pole

Seems many of us end up retiring  
in CCR environments.  Who can argue with a good ol' American flagpole?
http://www.steppir.com/

-

Yes, the SteppIR design is a really intriguing idea. The verticals are
apparently 1/4 wave verticals and a 1/4 wave antenna is highly-dependent on
a good ground, both close in and at a distance, for optimum performance.
Notice that their photos of verticals in action have them installed in
vertical Heaven - at the seashore! 

Verticals do a very good job anywhere they are installed properly, but by or
on salt water is where they really stand out! 

There are two issues with ground-mounted verticals - either one that is
actually 1/4 wave long or one that uses traps to 'disconnect' the unneeded
length on the higher bands.

1) On the higher bands, the active portion of the antenna is that part
closest to the ground. So, on the higher frequencies most vulnerable to
absorption by surrounding objects, the active part of the antenna is most
likely down among such objects.

2) They still need a ground, and the closer to the ground the antenna is
mounted, the more radials are required for equal performance. Tests have
shown that it takes nearly 100 radials on the ground to equal the
effectiveness of only four radials ten feet or so above the ground. 

Flag pole antennas are a popular idea among those needing a stealth
antenna, but in some areas the developers have caught onto them. I
occasionally deal with real estate CCR's (Covenants, Conditions 
Restrictions) and I've run across a number of places where they either deny
all permission to install a flag pole without seldom-given permission or
they specifically require that the flag pole be used *only* for the purposes
of flying the flag and that the pole serve no other purpose including
...acting as an antenna for radio receiving or transmitting apparatus. 

So if someone lives in a home with such CCR's, read them carefully! Sure,
you can hire an attorney and challenge them, but I've got a hunch you'll
need very deep pockets and no guarantee of getting the results you want. 

Ron AC7AC

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[Elecraft] Moving the bands on k1 modules

2006-06-14 Thread Krister Eriksson
Hi, 
I have ordered one K1-4 plus KFL1-2, should soon arrive here in SM. 

I have choosen 40/30/20/17 mtrs in k1-4 and 80/15 on KFL1-2 board and
will probably build this way, but i just wondering about doing this way:
80/40/30/20 K1-4 and 17/15 on KFL1-2, is that possible with the existing
parts included in kit? 

By this way i will not need to swap boards when changing between 40 and
80 mtrs.. 

73 / SM5KRI Chris
-- 
Krister Eriksson
Ringduvegatan 23
724 70 Västerås

[Hamradio: SM5KRI]
[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]


-- 
SM5KRI
Krister Eriksson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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