Re: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
The K2 drift mentioned by Adam is about 5 ppm for 10 MHz WWV. This isn't bad for a non-TCXO oscillator. With TCXO oscillators, you can probably get down to 1 ppm, but it might cost you $50 extra. You can do even better by mounting the oscillator in an oven (OCXO), but it will cost you a penalty in both cost and power consumption. Neither of these options is feasible for the K2 design. Now a few comments about some of the other comments on this thread. The PLL reference is the major source of drift in the K2, especially on the higher frequency bands. If you reduce the PLL reference drift enough, you might find that the BFO drift becomes more significant. You can measure BFO versus PLL reference drift by measuring the frequency on both USB and LSB. The thermistor/resistor network for PLL reference frequency stabilization was designed to compensate both for warmup drift and drift induced by a KPA100. In receive only, the K2 internal temperature will rise about 10F in a half-hour. Running a KPA100 at high power can result in even larger temperature excursions. Adjusting RA can reduce this drift; just follow the instructions in the manual. Finally, the PLL reference frequency stabilization was tested in an temperature chamber from 40F to 120F, and the stabilization works well over this temperature range. In one test, the K2/100 was started cold at 59F for 30 minutes, and then put in transmit at 20 watts CW output for 40 minutes. This increased the internal temperature to 114F. The total VFO drift over this temperature range was 70 Hz; the total BFO drift was 10 Hz. The test unit has an optimized RA resistor. -John KI6WX - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That being said, I still do notice a temperature-dependent frequency drift during normal usage. The drift is predictable, with the zero beat on the dial I get with reference to WWV drifting by as much as 70-80 Hz if the temperature difference between ambient and the max temp the rig hits with the KPA100 under heavy use is large. The frequency at which I can zero-beat WWV does not change unpredictably. The radio consistently zero-beats low (e.g. WWV zero-beats at 10.000.07) when cold. Is this a really big deal? On SSB, certainly not. On CW I like to zero-beat dead-on with the narrow filters. Perhaps I'm just being a perfectionist. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Measuring K2 frequency drift w/o Test Equipment
For those interested in evaluating their K2's drift without access to test equipment, here's a process created by John Grebenkemper, KI6WX, while testing the original PLL active frequency compensation mods back in 2003. This procedure will identify the drift in the PLL reference oscillator separately from the BFO oscillator. That's really handy to know if you think your drift is excessive. Otherwise, you don't know which oscillator is causing the drift. Also, on some bands the drift in the BFO oscillator will cancel the drift in the PLL Reference oscillator. That tends to make the K2 seem as though it's very stable on some bands and not so stable on other bands. You'll need a signal you can receive that is very stable over time. The accuracy of the measurement depends upon this, and we're looking for drifts of a few Hz! A good signal is a standards frequency signal such as WWV in the USA at 10 MHz or CHU in Canada. Step 1: Tune in the on-air signal in CW mode selecting the normal sideband (no bar above the C on the display). Carefully zero beat it using the K2's SPOT function, then note the reading on the K2's frequency display. If you're listening to WWV or some other signal with a steady tone modulation, be careful not to zero beat to the sideband of the tone. If you do, your results will be in error by the amount of the tone frequency unless you zero beat to the same tone later. If using WWV, recommend you wait for a silent period to confirm that you are zero beat to the carrier, which should be producing a tone in the K2's speaker equal to the sidetone frequency you're using. We will call the frequency shown in the K2's frequency display "f1cwn", for "frequency 1, CW normal". Step 2: Switch to CW RV, then re-zero beat the carrier to the SPOT tone. We will call this frequency "f1cwr" for "frequency 2, CW reverse". Step 3: Now you wait until you're ready to take a second set of reading to see how much the K2 has drifted. You can go ahead and have some QSO's or just leave the rig running, whatever you want. When running the drift tests, we transmitted at full power into a dummy load for a period of time to simulate some intensive on-air activity. Step 4: Repeat the above measurements taken in Step 1 and Step 2. Call these measurements "f2cwn" and "f2cwr" for "frequency 2 cw normal" and frequency 2 cw reverse". Step 5: Now we calculate the total drift as follows. Subtract f2cwn from f1cwn. Multiply the result by 1000 since the K2 displays KHz and we want to work in Hertz. Algebraically, this is: Delta (i.e. change in) fcwn = 1000(f2cwn - f1cwn) Delta fcwr = 1000(f2cwr - f2cwr) Step 6: Now we calculate the individual drift that has occurred in the BFO oscillator and the PLL reference oscillator as follows: Delta fpll = (delta fcwn + delta fcwr)/2 Delta fbfo= (delta fcwn - delta fcwr)/2 In my K2 I tested the drift at ambient room temperature, +26C, then operated the rig at 100 watts sending CW from a buffer into a dummy load until the internal temperature reached +42C as measured by a probe mounted inside the closed-up rig. The KPA100's heat sink was too hot to leave my hand on it. The maximum drift I found was less than 50 Hz on any band under those extreme conditions. As they say, your mileage may vary, but that should be typical. If you have an old K2 like mine (S/N 1289) that has never been upgraded, it's a worth while effort if you notice any drift. The PLL reference oscillator stability mods were included in all kits after S/N 3446, according to the information on the Elecraft WEB site. Like most improvements to the K2, Elecraft provides an inexpensive kit of parts and instructions you can use to upgrade your K2. Order E850138, K2 Temperature Compensated PLL Reference Upgrade. If your K2 has a serial number earlier than 3000, you'll also need BFOMDKT, K2 BFO Toroid & PLL Ref Osc Xtal Upgrade. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Report for Christmas Eve, 2006
Good Evening, Well that was a tough one. One minute the signals were up and then they were gone. A few very persistent folks got through on 40 meters. The band was plagued with QSB which was very deep. Twenty meters was good if you lived west of me. Tom, N0SS, was good before the net but five minutes after the hour he was gone. When I heard someone on twenty they were good copy. When I heard them on forty they went from good copy to gone. I have a list of partial calls on 40 meters which is two pages long. However, if we don't try we will never make contact. I am not sure if it was my compromised antenna (one leg anyway) or more likely the propagation. Earlier in the day (1 PM local) twenty meters only had two QSOs in progress. The lists => On 14050 kHz at 2352z: N0SS - Tom - MO - K2 - 008 QNI #175!!! KL7CW - Rick - AK - KX1 - 798 AH6RE - Curt - HI - KX1 - 464 AH6V - Jerry - HI - Argo but he has a KX1 in reserve ;) On 7045 at 0300z: KT5E - Jay - CO - K2 - 5037 S7 to S2 or less and you were the BEST signal! K7TO ? K4GT - Jim - GA - K2 - 2015 The good news here is the tree was removed from the roof this morning. Bad news? It is raining fairly hard so the patch and cover job is not holding all the water out. I get to remove 8 rafters and all the associated parts above and below. Looks like I'll get to improve my drywall skills :) I will use this opportunity to train my nephew how to build a roof. He wants me to design a clerestory structure. I think he is a bit wacky but will at least draw it on the drafting board to see how much it will cost and how hard it will be to seal against the weather. Thanks to all of you for joining me and for those who tried and were not successful. Next week we get to try on New Year's Eve :) There should be plenty of folks out that night since it is Straight Key Night. Maybe I should brush up my skills and run the nets with one. May be a bit slower and, heaven forbid, I'll make a few (more) mistakes. Nothing ventured ... Enjoy your Christmas day tomorrow. Stay warm, stay safe, and enjoy your family's presence. 73, Kevin. KD5ONS (Net Control Station 5th Class) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Merry Christmas!
From our house to yours: Larry, Marianne, Joseph and Cara wish you a very Merry Christmas! May the Lord keep you and hold you close in His heart. 73 de Larry W2LJ -- Larry W2LJ QRP - When you care to send the very least! http://www.w2lj.qrpradio.com http://w2lj.blogspot.com/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
On Sunday 24 December 2006 15:26, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Kevin, > > The RA resistor on the thermistor board is intended to compensate for drift > AFTER warmup In 1978 I bought an Eddystone EA12 from Tom, G3YTO, sadly SK in 1985. It used to keep my bedroom/shack warm - thermal stability, and the glow from the dial lights was comforting. My K2 has been on continuously since June 2005 except for power cuts and the ARRL Field Day when I joined three new friends operating 1E, with my transported K2 for a while powered from a solar panel for extra points. I have the LCD LEDs off most of the time. Short of a rubidium or caesium derived source, keeping the equipment on all the time is a good way to stability. Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR, K2 #4962 - June 2005 -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Seasons Greetings from Wales
From Wales (UK); Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Da (Merry Christmas & a happy new year) 73 Roger MW0IDX K3IDX K2#2724 KX1 #416 http://mw0idx.co.uk http://sota.org.uk So how many different languages are represented here? I can offer Prettige Kerstdagen en Gebikkig Niewjaar, thanks to my beautiful Dutch XYL. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- To the Elecraft gang and to all the Elecrafters round the world... I wish a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année. Frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes Neues Jarh. Buon Natale e felice Anno Nuovo. Feliz Navidad y prospero Año Nuevo. Feliz Natale prospero e Ano Novo. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] (no subject)
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.. Paul Gates, KD3JF ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
Don, I agree about warm up drift. Perhaps I misunderstood Adam, but I thought that his problem was that even during normal usage he found objectionable drift when he operated his KPA100 for a while. I presume, perhaps wrongly, that this is most likely coming from the PLL since I thought that the heating due to the KPA100 was what lead John, KI6WX to come up with the thermistor compensation. 73 Kevin w9cf On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 03:26:08PM -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Kevin, > > The RA resistor on the thermistor board is intended to compensate for drift > AFTER warmup - such as drift that might occur due to the additional heating > when the KPA100 is transmitting. I do not believe it would be fruitful to > attempt to compensate for the initial warmup drift that one may find in the > K2 - and you may wind up overcompensating and find the drift after a warmup > period would be greater - it would not be good to have a K2 that does not > drift when first turned on and then begins to drift after some warmup > period. > > Or perhaps better said, the thermistor board provides compensation for the > PLL reference oscillator. There are many more components involved in the > initial warmup drift - the BFO is one. > > It would be interesting to try, but would take a lot of controlled test > conditions to verify the results. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > > -Original Message- > > > > The K2 PLL Ref Upgrade manual gives some information on typical drift i.e. > > 5 to 20 Hz per 15 degrees F on 20 meters. It also explains how changing RA > > on the thermistor board can better compensate for the drift. Since your > > drift is consistent, I think you should be able to reduce it by adjusting > > RA on the thermistor board. > > > > 73 Kevin w9cf > > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Merry Christmas
To all my friends on all the lists... A very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours. 73, MRI XMAS ES HNY DE Jim, N2EY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] "The Never Fail Cheap & Dirty K1 Bail";
Thanks to Colin, N0YGY for this idea. I fabricated mine from a coat hanger in about 10 minutes and it works very nicely. Makes the K-1 nicer to use, controls more accessible. And, the price was certainly right. 73, Curt KB5JO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
I don't really see, or notice, any drift in my K2. I'm sure it does a bit, but it must be a small amount, and negligible for my purposes Stan Rife W5EWA Houston, TX K2 S/N 4216 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 2:26 PM To: Kevin Schmidt; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift Kevin, The RA resistor on the thermistor board is intended to compensate for drift AFTER warmup - such as drift that might occur due to the additional heating when the KPA100 is transmitting. I do not believe it would be fruitful to attempt to compensate for the initial warmup drift that one may find in the K2 - and you may wind up overcompensating and find the drift after a warmup period would be greater - it would not be good to have a K2 that does not drift when first turned on and then begins to drift after some warmup period. Or perhaps better said, the thermistor board provides compensation for the PLL reference oscillator. There are many more components involved in the initial warmup drift - the BFO is one. It would be interesting to try, but would take a lot of controlled test conditions to verify the results. 73, Don W3FPR > -Original Message- > > The K2 PLL Ref Upgrade manual gives some information on typical drift i.e. > 5 to 20 Hz per 15 degrees F on 20 meters. It also explains how changing RA > on the thermistor board can better compensate for the drift. Since your > drift is consistent, I think you should be able to reduce it by adjusting > RA on the thermistor board. > > 73 Kevin w9cf > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/601 - Release Date: 12/24/2006 11:31 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
Kevin, The RA resistor on the thermistor board is intended to compensate for drift AFTER warmup - such as drift that might occur due to the additional heating when the KPA100 is transmitting. I do not believe it would be fruitful to attempt to compensate for the initial warmup drift that one may find in the K2 - and you may wind up overcompensating and find the drift after a warmup period would be greater - it would not be good to have a K2 that does not drift when first turned on and then begins to drift after some warmup period. Or perhaps better said, the thermistor board provides compensation for the PLL reference oscillator. There are many more components involved in the initial warmup drift - the BFO is one. It would be interesting to try, but would take a lot of controlled test conditions to verify the results. 73, Don W3FPR > -Original Message- > > The K2 PLL Ref Upgrade manual gives some information on typical drift i.e. > 5 to 20 Hz per 15 degrees F on 20 meters. It also explains how changing RA > on the thermistor board can better compensate for the drift. Since your > drift is consistent, I think you should be able to reduce it by adjusting > RA on the thermistor board. > > 73 Kevin w9cf > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/601 - Release Date: 12/24/2006 11:31 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
Adam, The K2 PLL Ref Upgrade manual gives some information on typical drift i.e. 5 to 20 Hz per 15 degrees F on 20 meters. It also explains how changing RA on the thermistor board can better compensate for the drift. Since your drift is consistent, I think you should be able to reduce it by adjusting RA on the thermistor board. 73 Kevin w9cf >That being said, I still do notice a temperature-dependent >frequency drift during normal usage. The drift is >predictable, with the zero beat on the dial I get with >reference to WWV drifting by as much as 70-80 Hz if the >temperature difference between ambient and the max temp the >rig hits with the KPA100 under heavy use is large. The >frequency at which I can zero-beat WWV does not change >unpredictably. The radio consistently zero-beats low (e.g. >WWV zero-beats at 10.000.07) when cold. >Adam, N1KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement
For the 20 meter frequency at 14050 all you need is a General Class license. There are no Novice or Tech+ allocations on 20 meters. For the 7045 kHz 40 meter frequency all you need is a Tech+, Novice or greater license. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Glad to hear you're going to be back tonight. I'll be listening on 20m, if I can get my Realistic DX-160 tuned properly. In a few weeks, I'll be able to try to check in, depending on what part of the band that frequency is in. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] eHam Review of Rework Eliminators
Earlier this morning Chuck (NI0C) wrote: ... readers ... might be interested in my review ... at the eHam website ... -- This is *must reading* for those of you who find a new K2 under the tree in the morning! The direct URL is http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6372 If you have used our headers -- especially if you built your K2 using our rework-free method -- then I request that you add your own comments to the eHam database. --- - - - --- If you would like to be one of our beta-testers for our dramatically improved Companion Guide, we still have a few openings. Please email us for details. Even if you don't, you should still refer to the new guide while you annotate your K2 manual, if only to see what you are trying to accomplish. The *temporary* URL to the beta release is ... http://www.unpcbs.com/manuals/pdfs/companionguidebeta.pdf 73 & Merry Christmas, Gary KI4GGX Rework Eliminators is a trademark of Ken Kaplan & Gary Hvizdak ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement
Glad to hear you're going to be back tonight. I'll be listening on 20m, if I can get my Realistic DX-160 tuned properly. In a few weeks, I'll be able to try to check in, depending on what part of the band that frequency is in. Kevin Rock wrote: Good Evening, After a week's hiatus I will be back to start the Elecraft CW Net and pass it around the continent. We got our power back after a week without it. My Trojan batteries were down to 12.1 volts after starting at 12.7 volts. It took two full days of charging for them to recover. I was impressed with all they did for me. Lighting, two radios, desktop computer with monitor, laptop computer for many hours of use, and the insurance adjuster's computer too. The phone service came back a few days before we got power back. It appears the problem was totally unrelated to the storm or the power outage. Something had happened at their switching office which kicked me off line. Hot running water and telephone service are addictive! Since I have a dial up Internet connection it takes quite a while for me to get my mail on a normal day. Since I was not using this computer, which sits in a back room far from the heat source, I was using WebMail which added another level of indirection slowing access even further. I am still wading through the 1500+ emails I received over the outage period. Thank you for all the good wishes during the darkness and cold. Yes, it was frightening but with some help I am starting to cut the trees and stack the slash for later burning. The wood will not be used for timber since the price the mills are offering is too low to make a profit. I've been advised to sell firewood instead to make money. Too bad, there is some prime timber in those trees. I have only been on HF for a day since all of my antennas were turned into their component parts. While brushing out we did find some wires and insulators so I can salvage that and make another one. I did get up a spare G5RV but have only used it once for MARS so I know it works NVIS. Now to see if it will get to the Mississippi or beyond. One leg is only a short distance above my head. But after five hours of struggle I decided that was good enough. I found there is quite a difference between Stren and Berkley Trilene. I was trying to use Trilene for the first time to get my antennas up using my normal technique of teardrop sinker zipped through the trees with a wrist rocket. The Trilene did not feed well and snagged a lot in all sorts of trees. After using about 400 yards in 20 yard segments I tossed the roll and went back to the Stren. First time my sinker hit the roof of the house and I got a line back from there to a tree. The antenna is nearly level but my property is at an angle so one leg is about sixty feet in the air while the other would injure someone over six feet! Luckily I am more compact ;) Tomorrow evening we get to test both the aether and my new antenna. Now if I can only remember how to send CW! Please join us: Monday z (Sunday 4 PM PST) 14050 kHz Monday 0300z (Sunday 7 PM PST) 7045 kHz Kevin. KD5ONS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
Adam, You cite 70 to 80 Hz drift from a cold start. That is within the K2 spec of <100 Hz drift typical from a cold start at 25C (77F). If your ambient temperature is lower, you can expect more warm-up drift. Once warmed up, the drift should be small. Even my stable HP6840 takes about 2 hours to stabilize after I power it on, and I have the MIL version, so there is a big sticker on the front warning that it has this warm-up drift. I just refrain from measuring anything until the warm-up drift has subsided - so I contend that even fine lab equipment is subject to warm-up drift and to expect that a K2 would be totally stable from a cold start at ambient temperature is IMHO being unrealistic. I do not know of any ham gear that does not have some warm-up drift unless all the oscillators are contained inside a temperature controlled ovens. Only high-end homebrew transcievers can achive that kind of stability, to manufacture units like that would be too costly for the general ham market. Or did I understand something incorrectly? 73, Don W3FPR > -Original Message- > > As a few people pointed out, I misspoke in my earlier email. > > When I calibrate C22 I immediately run CAL PLL and CAL FIL. > True, the K2 does not directly reference C22 during normal > operation. My calibration of C22 and then CAL PLL and CAL > FIL is all by-the-book. > > That being said, I still do notice a temperature-dependent > frequency drift during normal usage. The drift is > predictable, with the zero beat on the dial I get with > reference to WWV drifting by as much as 70-80 Hz if the > temperature difference between ambient and the max temp the > rig hits with the KPA100 under heavy use is large. The > frequency at which I can zero-beat WWV does not change > unpredictably. The radio consistently zero-beats low (e.g. > WWV zero-beats at 10.000.07) when cold. > > Is this a really big deal? On SSB, certainly not. On CW I > like to zero-beat dead-on with the narrow filters. Perhaps > I'm just being a perfectionist. > > Adam, N1KO > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/601 - Release Date: 12/24/2006 11:31 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 frequency drift
Hi again, As a few people pointed out, I misspoke in my earlier email. When I calibrate C22 I immediately run CAL PLL and CAL FIL. True, the K2 does not directly reference C22 during normal operation. My calibration of C22 and then CAL PLL and CAL FIL is all by-the-book. That being said, I still do notice a temperature-dependent frequency drift during normal usage. The drift is predictable, with the zero beat on the dial I get with reference to WWV drifting by as much as 70-80 Hz if the temperature difference between ambient and the max temp the rig hits with the KPA100 under heavy use is large. The frequency at which I can zero-beat WWV does not change unpredictably. The radio consistently zero-beats low (e.g. WWV zero-beats at 10.000.07) when cold. Is this a really big deal? On SSB, certainly not. On CW I like to zero-beat dead-on with the narrow filters. Perhaps I'm just being a perfectionist. Adam, N1KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Xmas
Merry Christmas to my fellow Elecrafters, and may 2007 bring lots of joy, good kit building, DX, portable operation or whatever else you enjoy in this wonderful hobby. 73, Larry N8LP, Janet, Alan and Mike KD8DKT. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequencyh stability
Adam, I assume you are referring to drift of the 4 MHz master oscillator and not to a drift in the PLL reference oscillator. Drift in the 4 MHz reference is of little to no consequence in normal operation of the K2. It is only important at the time CAL PLL and CAL FIL are performed. The K2 does not use the 4 MHz reference to count the frequency on a real-time basis. The values obtained during the CAL PLL and CAL FIL process are retained in EEPROM and those values are used for control and display of the K2 frequency, so the 4 MHz oscillator may drift many kHz and all will still be well with the K2. The 4 MHz oscillator does serve as the clock signal for the microprocessor, but it's accuracy is not important for that use. If you wish to achieve good dial calibration on the K2, warm the K2 up to operating temperature before calibrating the 4 MHz reference oscillator and running CAL PLL and CAL FIL. Instructions for calibrating the K2 dial to an accuracy of 10 to 20 Hz can be found on my website http://w3fpr.qrpradio.com . 73, Don W3FPR > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:48 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] K2 frequencyh stability > > > Hello all, > > I notice that on K2 #03547 rev B (with KPA100, KDSP2, KSB2, > K160RX and thermistor installed at time of build) the master > frequency drifts as a function of temperature. From an > ambient temp of 65F to max rig temp when the KPA100 fan > kicks in the receiver may drift by 800 Hz. The range is > usually more narrow given the typical temp shift experienced. > > My solution has been to calibrate C22 against WWV such that > as the rig warms up, the master frequency set by C22 drifts > towards zero-beat with WWV. > > My question is this: how much drift is typical? > > Adam, N1KO > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: > 12/21/2006 6:45 PM > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/2006 6:45 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 frequencyh stability
You don't mention what you mean by "master frequency" nor how you measured the drift, but I believe you've misunderstood the purpose of the 4MHz oscillator. It is used to program the lookup tables for frequency generation, but during normal operation it's exact frequency does not matter. So, you should set C22 as accurately as you can and immediately run CAL PLL and CAL FIL and then ignore any drift. If you measure the actual performance of the radio, you should see 100 Hz drift maximum. I've never heard anyone say what the drift of the 4MHz oscillator might be, but since it doesn't matter - who cares? Or did I understand you wrong? Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456 the master frequency drifts as a function of temperature. From an ambient temp of 65F to max rig temp when the KPA100 fan kicks in the receiver may drift by 800 Hz. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 frequencyh stability
Hello all, I notice that on K2 #03547 rev B (with KPA100, KDSP2, KSB2, K160RX and thermistor installed at time of build) the master frequency drifts as a function of temperature. From an ambient temp of 65F to max rig temp when the KPA100 fan kicks in the receiver may drift by 800 Hz. The range is usually more narrow given the typical temp shift experienced. My solution has been to calibrate C22 against WWV such that as the rig warms up, the master frequency set by C22 drifts towards zero-beat with WWV. My question is this: how much drift is typical? Adam, N1KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] FS: K2/100 $1100 (with options)
K2 #4958 with: - KPA100 100-watt section - KNB2 noise blanker - KAF2 clock and CW filter - original QRP top section - power cord - manuals - misc spare parts, tools (RF probe etc.) Covers 10 through 80 meters. Built, tested, looks and works perfect. Original owner/builder. High quality, neat, careful build. I've previously built another K2, a KX1 and two K1's). Priced for quick sale at $1100 for everything, includes shipping within U.S. 73, --Andrew, NV1B ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Elecraft Digest, Vol 32, Issue 27
I had a similar problem, yesterday. I just built K2/100 #5884 and everything was ok until I started alignment of the KPA100. After a few minutes of getting normal output at 5 watts, I suddenly started getting 'High Current', intermittently on 7 MHz, then on every band. Dropped back to signal tracing using the antenna as a source. No received signal. Removed the KPA100. K2 worked fine. Ohm meter showed TP2 dead short to ground. Pulled board. Path way up to Low Pass filter showed dead short to ground. Removed input relay (didn't want to cut traces). (RADIOSHACK solder sucker WORKS GREAT!) Short was cleared from TP2. Removed P6 jumper cable. Short localized to jumper cable, PLUG seemed to be shorted. Looked a plug carefully. I found that the coax center conductor insulator was pulled tight during the alignment and had pulled the braid into contact with the 'HOT' rf pin on the plug. The insulation on the center conductor slides back and forth easily! A small tie wrap, around the center conductor, at the plug end makes sure this will never happen again. Perhaps you are having the same problem. 73 de N5bz Message: 5 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 05:28:53 -0500 From: "Smythe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA - High current To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It is happening on all bands (the high curr reading. I will make the suggested resistance measurements today. I assume you mean to check resistance from TP2 to the "center lead" of the antenna jack. Or which portion of the jack? By continuity I assume you mean little if any resistance. Correct? Dohn -- -bz- pardon my infinite ignorance. The set-of-things-I-do-not-know is infinite. Robert R. "bz" Zinn --- programmer |opinions expressed are only mine now.| Department of Chemistry |Tomorrow, or later today I may change. | Louisiana State University |-| Baton Rouge, LA. 70803-1804 |interests: amateur radio [N5BZ],F&AM | (225) 578-5381 audio|box turtles. http://chemistry.lsu.edu/bz | (225) 578-3458 (FAXual) |-| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Fight Spam join http://www.cauce.org| "Boy, there's sure nothing half-vast about the universe." Ziggie | I will NEVER buy anything from companies associated with unsolicited telephone or email solicitations. Put me on your do-not-call lists! You are responsible for the use of any information, opinions or advice. Such use is understood to be 'at your own risk' and you agree to hold me blameless and protect me from any consequences or liabilities that you may incur through the use of ideas or information that I may supply. (C) COPYRIGHT 2002 by Robert R. Zinn. All rights reserved. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] eHam Review of Rework Eliminators
I thought readers (especially those now building their K2's) might be interested in my review of the Rework Eliminators now found at the eHam website, under Product Reviews, QRP Accessories. 73 & Happy Holidays to all, Chuck NI0C K2 s/n 5853 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] #0771 ... just fabulous ... somebody deserves a pat on the back!
Brian . . . Point taken, but we'll see. Miniaturization comes at a price. No one ever replaced panel-mounted phone jacks as frequently as we do circuit-board mounted miniatures today. Nor did we replace mic cords and plugs (same with telephones) as often as we have to today. My overall thesis on dependability still stands, I think, as witness the vintage crowd and their still-going-strong at fifty-plus years gear. 73, Kent K9ZTV w6fvi wrote: Hi, Kent! Kindly take one more look at that warning. It is referring to the internal RF Power Level control (R4 trimmer pot). The RF Gain pot topside is expected to see much more use and was selected because it will last a long time. Merry Christmas! Brian - W6FVI k9ztv wrote: However, by comparison, during assembly of a KX1 I did note the warning in the manual about not turning the RF gain control too frequently because that pot "has a life expectancy of 200 rotations." Hmm. I know I've rotated the RF gain (and also the AF gain) on the R4-B a lot more than 200 revolutions over 36 years and have yet to need even a squirt of De-Oxit on either one of those pots. 73, Kent Trimble, K9ZTV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
