Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise?
I'd never had a rig capable of going lower than 500Hz till I got the K3 and really found myself quite annoyed at times when the noise was high and I really necked the filter down. Its taken me time to figure all these things out but Joe really has some great tips here and has done an excellent job explaining why these things work. I also find that use of a lower FC makes the noise sit a little better with me as the noise is more subdued and not as piercing. One thing to try is to turn the bandwidth down to around 200Hz and find a quiet spot on the band then adjust your pitch up and down and listen to the band noise in a few places to see what you prefer based on the noise rather than the pitch. Then see if you can live w/ that pitch. I liked Joe's comment about it being spaced over more bandwidth. Thats an interesting thought but based on the whole logarithmic scaling stuff it does make sense. I find the dualPB filter is nice but I kinda wish I could adjust the size of my focus filter as well as the outer skirts. I'd even be ok if it was just a menu setting for the size of my focus filter. That would be something I'd be sticking on a PF button and I'd then use the dualPB more often. ~Brett On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:42 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > > You did a wonderful job explaining exactly what I've noticed. > > To me, it seems as if the noise mixes or blends with the cw > > and at times blips out cw characters. This only happens when > > signals are weak and the band is noisy. > > What you are describing is not true filter 'ringing' but the > effect of band limited noise. Even though the noise is fairly > "random" it is confined in a narrow range and is close to the > desired signal. > > Keeping the filter wider may be somewhat counterintuitive in > noisy conditions but it helps in a couple ways ... first it > spreads the noise power out and allows the desired signal to > appear somewhat stronger than the "random" noise. Second if > you use a lower center frequency the noise is spread over a > wider percentage bandwidth and a larger portion of the noise > is 'far enough' away from the desired signal to allow the > ear-brain DSP system to work more effectively. > > > I've tried all the EQ settings, NR (which helps) and AGC > > settings to no avail. I don't consider this "ringing" since > > that's not what I'm hearing. > > Try a lower FC and slightly wider filters. Also give the > Dual PB filter a try. > > 73, > >... Joe, W4TV > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington > > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:32 PM > > To: Edwin Johnson; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise? > > > > > > Edwin > > You did a wonderful job explaining exactly what I've noticed. > > To me, it > > seems as if the noise mixes or blends with the cw and at > > times blips out cw > > characters. This only happens when signals are weak and the > > band is noisy. I > > recently came across an older TenTec Jupiter which has very > > wide skirts and > > virtually no roofing filter (15kHz). The same noise has no > > effect on it. I > > have done dozens of A/B test and the Jupiter always comes out > > the winner > > until someone with an S9+30 signal gets within the roofing filter's > > bandpass, like 6kHz away, and pumps the hardware AGC > > violently. Then it's > > all over and I either switch back to the K3 and suffer poor > > copy or just > > QRT. > > I've tried all the EQ settings, NR (which helps) and AGC > > settings to no > > avail. I don't consider this "ringing" since that's not what > > I'm hearing. > > > > Steve > > N4LQ > > n...@carolina.rr.com > > - Original Message - > > From: "Edwin Johnson" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:34 PM > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise? > > > > > > > I've had my K3, which I assembled, about a month, outfitted with > > > 13kHz, > > > 6kHz, > > > 2.8kHz, and 400Hz filters. Thus far I've been exceptionally > > pleased with > > > all > > > aspects of the rig. I've read with interest the audio > > discussions of this > > > group. There is one area in which I'm not totally > > satisfied, but this may > > > be > > > due, partially, with my expectations of the rig. > > > > > > When using CW on noisy bands, meaning the sort of > > atmospheric noise we > > > often > > > are having now (NOT static crashes from storms), there > > appears to be an > > > audio > > > product as the bandwidth is narrowed which is annoying to > > my ears, which > > > occurs both in speakers and phones. This is basically like > > a ringing of > > > the > > > filters and especially evident as the passband is narrowed > > to 50-150Hz. > > > This > > > phenomenon is not a problem in quiet conditions nor if the > > station is > > > especially stro
[Elecraft] Moving to memory
I just received about 2 weeks ago my K3. Boy has it ever been a learning experience! Anyway today i was putting some frequencies into memory when this strange thing happened. I dialed up the frequency i wanted to put in one of the memory locations and tapped the "V-M" button. Up came a previously input frequency as it should have. While studying the radio to make sure i had everything right i noticed the dial reading had dropped back to one of the ham bands and no longer had the frequency displayed i wanted to put in memory. That happened two different times and that was all. After that the rest of the memory channels i wanted to input frequencies into worked fine. Anyone else have that happen to them? Hope that made sense. larry W0OGH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net Announcement
Hi gang, The weekly Elecraft SSB net will meet Sunday, 8/9/09 at 1800Z. The net will start at 14.316 MHz. Hopefully, we will have some decent propagation. I will be looking for midwest and east coast stations to put out calls for check-ins to see if we can pick up a few others we may be missing. I will also rotate my beam during the net to listen north and south. See you there. 73, Phil, NS7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise?
> You did a wonderful job explaining exactly what I've noticed. > To me, it seems as if the noise mixes or blends with the cw > and at times blips out cw characters. This only happens when > signals are weak and the band is noisy. What you are describing is not true filter 'ringing' but the effect of band limited noise. Even though the noise is fairly "random" it is confined in a narrow range and is close to the desired signal. Keeping the filter wider may be somewhat counterintuitive in noisy conditions but it helps in a couple ways ... first it spreads the noise power out and allows the desired signal to appear somewhat stronger than the "random" noise. Second if you use a lower center frequency the noise is spread over a wider percentage bandwidth and a larger portion of the noise is 'far enough' away from the desired signal to allow the ear-brain DSP system to work more effectively. > I've tried all the EQ settings, NR (which helps) and AGC > settings to no avail. I don't consider this "ringing" since > that's not what I'm hearing. Try a lower FC and slightly wider filters. Also give the Dual PB filter a try. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:32 PM > To: Edwin Johnson; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise? > > > Edwin > You did a wonderful job explaining exactly what I've noticed. > To me, it > seems as if the noise mixes or blends with the cw and at > times blips out cw > characters. This only happens when signals are weak and the > band is noisy. I > recently came across an older TenTec Jupiter which has very > wide skirts and > virtually no roofing filter (15kHz). The same noise has no > effect on it. I > have done dozens of A/B test and the Jupiter always comes out > the winner > until someone with an S9+30 signal gets within the roofing filter's > bandpass, like 6kHz away, and pumps the hardware AGC > violently. Then it's > all over and I either switch back to the K3 and suffer poor > copy or just > QRT. > I've tried all the EQ settings, NR (which helps) and AGC > settings to no > avail. I don't consider this "ringing" since that's not what > I'm hearing. > > Steve > N4LQ > n...@carolina.rr.com > - Original Message - > From: "Edwin Johnson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:34 PM > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise? > > > > I've had my K3, which I assembled, about a month, outfitted with > > 13kHz, > > 6kHz, > > 2.8kHz, and 400Hz filters. Thus far I've been exceptionally > pleased with > > all > > aspects of the rig. I've read with interest the audio > discussions of this > > group. There is one area in which I'm not totally > satisfied, but this may > > be > > due, partially, with my expectations of the rig. > > > > When using CW on noisy bands, meaning the sort of > atmospheric noise we > > often > > are having now (NOT static crashes from storms), there > appears to be an > > audio > > product as the bandwidth is narrowed which is annoying to > my ears, which > > occurs both in speakers and phones. This is basically like > a ringing of > > the > > filters and especially evident as the passband is narrowed > to 50-150Hz. > > This > > phenomenon is not a problem in quiet conditions nor if the > station is > > especially strong, but can overpower a very weak station. > (I'm using a > > pitch > > of 600Hz for CW.) > > > > (I've tried eliminating the 400Hz filter to make certain > there isn't a > > problem there, and all is well with that filter, apparently.) > > > > I've been reducing RF gain and sometimes widening the > passband to help > > aleviate the problem, as well as using the NR. I've also > modified the > > RX equalizer from flat to settings of: #1=0, #2=3, #3=3, > #4=-1, #5=-4, > > #6=-5, #7=-8, #8=-10. Admittedly, part of these settings accomodate > > SSB to give, what I hear, as a very pleasant sound for that > mode. The > > primary ranges of this noise are affected mostly by filters > #4 and #5. > > > > If the RX equalizer settings remain flat, hence 0, the > sound is even > > more annoying. But remember this is really only in noisy > conditions, > > so my hypothesis is that the chaotic sounds in the noise > are mixing to > > produce what sounds like a ringing of the filters. (So not > necessarily > > the filters actually ringing, as we think of it.) But this makes > > working very weak signals very difficult without widening > the passband > > quite a bit. > > > > So, guess I would like to hear comments regarding this, as well as > > settings > > and techniques people use to combat this phenomenon. > > > > 73 ...Edwin, KD5ZLB > > > > "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
[Elecraft] K3 VFO/RIT Tuning Hash Update
Trying again remembering the plain text without HTML or Rich Formating. Approximately one month ago I brought to the Digest information on my six-month-old K3 involving noise generated while tuning either the VFOs or RIT while on the 10 meter CW band. It was at a level of two S meter bars where it peaked around 28000 and again at 28045 KHz. This also showed up on my receiver on 6 meters where it manifests itself as audible steps while tuning threshold level CW signals such as on the EA6 I worked in June. Although my K3 doesn't have 5 MHz tuning hash, there are also some that were reported. Wayne responded to me while on his vacation and promised to look into it further upon return to work in mid July. Since then I've been contacted with possible fixes after it was determined that the hash was SPI bus related radiation into the front end of the receiver. I was forwarded a pre release Beta Firmware version to try and it confirmed that their findings at the factory corrected this issue. I was also informed that, if needed, there are other simple component related fixes involving the PCB serial bus that will be possible. I'm happy to report that on my factory built K3 S/N 2274, has most of the hash eliminated with only the firmware. Wayne is in the process of finalizing all the avenues by which those who have this issue can resolve it. This is not a universal K3 issue. I know many K3 users who don't have this condition. Only some have experienced this and they can deal with this once there is a finalized firmware/hardware upgrade. I understand that this will be available within a few weeks. I wish to finish by expressing my thanks to Wayne and the Elecraft team who are handling this with excellent service and professional expertise. We are lucky to have such a great product Designed and Made in USA Amateur Radio high tech multi-mode transceiver. Cheers John, W1QS ex N6JL K3 s/n2274, K2 s/n4204 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise?
Edwin You did a wonderful job explaining exactly what I've noticed. To me, it seems as if the noise mixes or blends with the cw and at times blips out cw characters. This only happens when signals are weak and the band is noisy. I recently came across an older TenTec Jupiter which has very wide skirts and virtually no roofing filter (15kHz). The same noise has no effect on it. I have done dozens of A/B test and the Jupiter always comes out the winner until someone with an S9+30 signal gets within the roofing filter's bandpass, like 6kHz away, and pumps the hardware AGC violently. Then it's all over and I either switch back to the K3 and suffer poor copy or just QRT. I've tried all the EQ settings, NR (which helps) and AGC settings to no avail. I don't consider this "ringing" since that's not what I'm hearing. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Edwin Johnson" To: Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise? > I've had my K3, which I assembled, about a month, outfitted with 13kHz, > 6kHz, > 2.8kHz, and 400Hz filters. Thus far I've been exceptionally pleased with > all > aspects of the rig. I've read with interest the audio discussions of this > group. There is one area in which I'm not totally satisfied, but this may > be > due, partially, with my expectations of the rig. > > When using CW on noisy bands, meaning the sort of atmospheric noise we > often > are having now (NOT static crashes from storms), there appears to be an > audio > product as the bandwidth is narrowed which is annoying to my ears, which > occurs both in speakers and phones. This is basically like a ringing of > the > filters and especially evident as the passband is narrowed to 50-150Hz. > This > phenomenon is not a problem in quiet conditions nor if the station is > especially strong, but can overpower a very weak station. (I'm using a > pitch > of 600Hz for CW.) > > (I've tried eliminating the 400Hz filter to make certain there isn't a > problem there, and all is well with that filter, apparently.) > > I've been reducing RF gain and sometimes widening the passband to help > aleviate the problem, as well as using the NR. I've also modified the RX > equalizer from flat to settings of: #1=0, #2=3, #3=3, #4=-1, #5=-4, #6=-5, > #7=-8, #8=-10. Admittedly, part of these settings accomodate SSB to give, > what I hear, as a very pleasant sound for that mode. The primary ranges of > this noise are affected mostly by filters #4 and #5. > > If the RX equalizer settings remain flat, hence 0, the sound is even more > annoying. But remember this is really only in noisy conditions, so my > hypothesis is that the chaotic sounds in the noise are mixing to produce > what sounds like a ringing of the filters. (So not necessarily the filters > actually ringing, as we think of it.) But this makes working very weak > signals very difficult without widening the passband quite a bit. > > So, guess I would like to hear comments regarding this, as well as > settings > and techniques people use to combat this phenomenon. > > 73 ...Edwin, KD5ZLB > > "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes > turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to > return."-da Vinci http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/d/edwinljohnson > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise?
The K3 offers IIR and FIR filters for the narrowest bandwidths (100 Hz and 50 Hz). IIR may have some amount ringing. The disable IIR, go to CONFIG:FLx ON (or any other filter menu) and tap "7" on the keypad until you see IIR OFF. The K3 uses fairly aggressive skirts on its filters. We have talked about implementing a "soft slope" which would make heavily filtered noise a bit broader, but that has implications on dynamic range and other issues that keep it from getting near the top of the list. 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Re off topic key speed control
Pretty much final thoughts should be. Does it really matter how you send as long as you send. We each seemed to have learned a different way. It all comes down to different strokes for different folks. As long as we have learn't (taught or otherwise) to get correct character spacing, the only thing that matters is that we are out there doing it. having great QSO's with the world. CW lives. Cheers Norm VK4NWG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed
Let's retire this thread for now. Its hit my unofficial 'OT' posting volume limit. ;-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator _..._ -Original Message- From: Peter Wollan Date: Saturday, Aug 8, 2009 6:15 am Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed To: dave.wilb...@verizon.net CC: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net,Elecraft_List Reflector This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious. People have been talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving? The problem is that doing anything other than driving while you're driving leads to inattention or distraction -- and a dramatic increase in the likelihood of a wreck. You may feel that you're not like other people, you can tell when you're not driving well, and you can handle it. Drunk drivers think that way too. I like the idea of mobile CW, and I admire the people who can do it. But I'm not going to do it myself. Peter N8MHD On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM, wrote: > Your inability to perceive the problem is (likely) directly proportional to > the years you have been doing code. ;) > > I did code mobile for the first time recently. Coming back from dropping my > son off at Camp Lejeune. It was the New Eng. QSO party. My paddles were the > buttons on the mic of a 706. It was lots of listening up front. Then just > reply to their call. > > I didn't try running a freq while driving. You have to save something to > shoot for. > > David Wilburn > NM4M > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: ".k8dd." > > Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:43:55 > To: Grant Youngman > Cc: Elecraft_List Reflector > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed > > > I've never understood that line of thought. > Why would you take target practice at little tykes? That's unreal. > > On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and > people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m. That's all ok. But > talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a > microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key > or paddle and let it sit there. > And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head? > That's not an argument either! > I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW. > > 73 :^] > Hank K8DD > > > > Grant Youngman wrote: >> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone >> here, even with a hands-free. I wonder if I could get away with >> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while >> sending mobile CW :-) >> >> Grant/NQ5T >> >>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could >>> copy >>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles, >>> etc. >>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at >>> home. Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone >>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used. >> > > > GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! > Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] VOX
With the Heil HC4 and HC5 elements (you apparently have an HC5, as do I), you must set the AF GAIN to HI. This should help. Bill W5WVO William Carver wrote: > I put my K3 on SSB today. I have a Heil headset (with ragchew element) > plugged into the KIO3 stereo phone output and mono mic input. I have > selected rear panel mic input, low gain. I am getting five divisions > on the CMP display with mic gain at 17 and getting reports of "good > audio" and close to 100W indicated on external peak reading wattmeter. > > With the VOX gain at 100, I can get VOX to transmit briefly on the > leading edge of "two" but it doesn't hold in. With VOX gain lower than > 90 I cannot get VOX to operate with speech at all. > > Ideas? > > W7AAZ > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement
Good Evening, For every time there is a purpose. Last week the 100 degree temperatures were good for drying the wood I had cut earlier in the year. The 90+ degree indoor temperatures were good for sweating. This week temperatures are 40 degrees cooler. This lets me split the wood which dried last week. Since it had been dried quickly the wood wanted to split for me. A few hours of work gained me about a face cord of wood ready to move later in the year. Gradually I am getting closer to a point where I can have access with my F-250. Otherwise I would have to use a wheelbarrow to move load after load. While this is good for meditative thought it takes many, many trips to make a dent. I'll stick with the 4WD truck if possible. Propagation gradually improved over the week and was pretty good by Friday morning. Twenty meters was open to the east and south. Forty meters was open during the late evening hours to the east and south as well. Still no sunspots but there has been some solar activity. However, for you meteor scatter buffs the Perseids are about to go crazy. They are already having high zenithal hourly rates but this will increase dramatically by the 12th of August. The moon is causing a problem now but should be less bright by the peak. They are predicting 200 or more per hour. This offers excellent possibilities for meteor scatter activities. Good luck! By the way I spotted a Western Tanager just a few days ago and the thimbleberries are producing many delectable fruit. No you can't have any! These are for me and the local critter population :) Please join us tomorrow evening. 1) Hail signs (first letter or two of the suffix of your call) 2) NCS help (as well as QSP/QNP help) Sunday 2300z (Sunday 4 PM PDT) 14050 kHz Monday 0100z (Sunday 6 PM PDT) 7045 kHz Stay well, Kevin. KD5ONS - __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] PowerSDR/IF Stage 1.19.0.1 Released
There is currently no support for v1.19.0.1 in any LP-Bridge release version. I have been playing with developmental versions of v1.19.0.1 for about a month, but as of yet have not found it to be stable enough to consider a new LP-Bridge release. This is also the case for this v1.19.0.1 release version. Once v1.19.0.1 becomes fully stable and all the required K3 commands are functional, I will release an updated LP-Bridge. In the meantime, if folks want to play with v1.19.0.1 and see what's new, they will have to do it with a dedicated connection to the K3. Beware, however, that you may very well have crashes and other issues, especially with VFO B. This should be considered beta software, and treated as such. Scott and Chad will need feedback, so it will be good for the brave at heart to try it and file bug report tickets. By the end of the year, this promises to be THE version to use, especially when the upcoming wideband image rejection feature is finalized by FlexRadio. 73, Larry N8LP Lee J. Imber (WW2DX) wrote: > > Hello Elecrafters, > > Chad, W1CEG, and Scott WU2X have have just released PowerSDR/IF Stage > v1.19.0.1. This is the next version released after v0.92. There are > many changes here, too many to list. They are all documented on the > release/download page (link below). > > However, one thing that isn't documented - there isn't support for LP- > Bridge as it was in v0.92. There are other ways to use LP-Bridge that > I will let Larry explain and document. > > But, out of the box, the new version supports a direct serial > connection to the K3 which makes the K3 work like it did in version > 0.92, with much better realtime tuning. Also VFOB linking (should) > work. There is also a direct serial connection option for the TS-940S. > The Ham Radio Deluxe option still exists. > > Well that is it for now, Chad and Scott need a rest now, seriously. > Full details on this page: > > Full Info: http://www.wu2x.com/sdr.html > > 73 > > -Lee, WW2DX > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/PowerSDR-IF-Stage-1.19.0.1--Released-tp3406465p3410773.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol --> Ergonomics
> I think maintaining a loose "linkage" in the wrist, elbow and shoulder > really helps to relax. I like to fidgit around a bit while sending > CW; can't do that with my arm glued to the table. YMMV, of course! > Whatever works best for you. I recently bought a "Natural" keyboard from Microsoft which has an angled split down the middle so the left and right hands are less inclined to intertwine themselves around the middle letters. As I get used to it, it's gradually helping me improve my touch typing. It's sold on the benefits for sufferers of Repetitive Strain Injury (= typists elbow = glass arm). Of a little more relevance, it came with an oversized mouse with a high thumb groove and operating instructions that tell me to lay the right side of my hand on the table next to the mouse, then rotate my hand until the thumb reaches the groove, *leaving the side of my hand still resting on the table*. Like the keyboard, it felt a little odd at first but I'm getting used to to it ... And now I'm starting to wonder about tilting my Bencher paddle in a similar way. I can easily make a little wooden wedge to lift the left paddle relative to the right, but a total redesign of the paddle to suit my hand's natural resting position will probably work better than the original paddle design which sits parallel to the desk. 73 Gary ZL2iFB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] VOX
I put my K3 on SSB today. I have a Heil headset (with ragchew element) plugged into the KIO3 stereo phone output and mono mic input. I have selected rear panel mic input, low gain. I am getting five divisions on the CMP display with mic gain at 17 and getting reports of "good audio" and close to 100W indicated on external peak reading wattmeter. With the VOX gain at 100, I can get VOX to transmit briefly on the leading edge of "two" but it doesn't hold in. With VOX gain lower than 90 I cannot get VOX to operate with speech at all. Ideas? W7AAZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Intermittent power loss
The problem seems to be fixed after reseating the LPA amplifier. Ignacy -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-power-loss-tp3373561p3410081.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Filter Ring with Noise?
I've had my K3, which I assembled, about a month, outfitted with 13kHz, 6kHz, 2.8kHz, and 400Hz filters. Thus far I've been exceptionally pleased with all aspects of the rig. I've read with interest the audio discussions of this group. There is one area in which I'm not totally satisfied, but this may be due, partially, with my expectations of the rig. When using CW on noisy bands, meaning the sort of atmospheric noise we often are having now (NOT static crashes from storms), there appears to be an audio product as the bandwidth is narrowed which is annoying to my ears, which occurs both in speakers and phones. This is basically like a ringing of the filters and especially evident as the passband is narrowed to 50-150Hz. This phenomenon is not a problem in quiet conditions nor if the station is especially strong, but can overpower a very weak station. (I'm using a pitch of 600Hz for CW.) (I've tried eliminating the 400Hz filter to make certain there isn't a problem there, and all is well with that filter, apparently.) I've been reducing RF gain and sometimes widening the passband to help aleviate the problem, as well as using the NR. I've also modified the RX equalizer from flat to settings of: #1=0, #2=3, #3=3, #4=-1, #5=-4, #6=-5, #7=-8, #8=-10. Admittedly, part of these settings accomodate SSB to give, what I hear, as a very pleasant sound for that mode. The primary ranges of this noise are affected mostly by filters #4 and #5. If the RX equalizer settings remain flat, hence 0, the sound is even more annoying. But remember this is really only in noisy conditions, so my hypothesis is that the chaotic sounds in the noise are mixing to produce what sounds like a ringing of the filters. (So not necessarily the filters actually ringing, as we think of it.) But this makes working very weak signals very difficult without widening the passband quite a bit. So, guess I would like to hear comments regarding this, as well as settings and techniques people use to combat this phenomenon. 73 ...Edwin, KD5ZLB "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."-da Vinci http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/d/edwinljohnson __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Tuning knob resistance too tight.
I too was concerned when the tuning knob of my K2 #5551 was stiff, even without a felt washer or two. The encoder shaft was very carefully scrutinised and no errant fibres were visible. It was with reluctace I requested a replacement encoder, because I believe it's an expensive component, but Elecraft speedily provided one without hesitation. Wow! What a difference that made! At the time I offered to return the stiff encoder to Elecraft for examination, but they declined. I still have the stiff encoder and the offer of its return to Elecraft still stands. Great radio and outstanding backup. 73 DaveL G3TJP K2/100 #5551 K3/100 #1122 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 Tuning knob resistance too tight.
My K2 #0681 has never had a problem with this - but my K2-100 #2681 has been 'tight' from the start, with or without the felt washer..it seems to be a 'warm-up' problem because it reverts to normal free movement with plenty of use. I've inspected it thoroughly with a magnifying glass & cannot see any foreign matter so just accept it now! Right now I'm without any rig, due to a shift in qth next week & have just had the sad task of chainsawing the timber poles of my 1200-ft-long horizontal loop which has served me faithfully for the past 21 years. 73 de Mike, zl1mh. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.46/2288 - Release Date: 08/07/09 13:13:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
That's very similar to what I had in mind. Here is a link to my sketch, kindly hosted by David G4DMP In my style, the pressure comes from the middle finger onto the disc and that finger takes all of the bounce. I find bunching the fingers together onto the key knob very tiring and I've added a disc to several keys. I have thousands of these discs, so, if anyone wants some, let me know. http://www.g4dmp.co.uk/MorseOperator.doc 73 David G3UNA > >>Hi All, >> >>May I offer another suggestion? First of all, I tend to agree with those >>who say the forearm should be supported by the table, with the upper arm >>vertical. Seems to me that not supporting the arm with the table would >>substantially add to the probability of fatigue. > > Have to disagree here... Arm-off-the-table works fine for me: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-JkkkKGUHM&fmt=18 > > I can do this all day... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SythbsvxZfA&fmt=18 > > Even the worst key is useable (but I wouldn't recommend it)... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSSAGY_L6YE&fmt=18 > > I think maintaining a loose "linkage" in the wrist, elbow and shoulder > really helps to relax. I like to fidgit around a bit while sending > CW; can't do that with my arm glued to the table. YMMV, of course! > Whatever works best for you. > > 73, > Drew > AF2Z > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 VFO/RIT Tuning Hash Update
__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:16 +0100 "Dave Sergeant" wrote: > On 8 Aug 2009 at 8:15, Peter Wollan wrote: > > > This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious. People have been > > talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while > > driving? > > In the UK of course using a mobile while driving is illegal (unless > it is hands free), on the spot fine if caught. There are special > exemptions for amateur kit, though I wouldn't want to be stopped by > the police speaking into a 2m handheld - or even worse sending morse > while driving. > > Sadly this reflector is drifting WAY off topic. I recently > resubscribed to see what was happening in Atpos but if these sort of > threads continue I will be leaving again. > > 73 Dave G3YMC > > http://www.davesergeant.com > Check out the archives before closing the door on the list. Thes crop up every once in awhile, but threads like this represent a small proportion of the topics, based on a *very* casual survey. With best regards, Pete -- Peter N. Spotts -- KC1JB http://www.kc1jb.net (under construction) Email: kc...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts QRP-ARCI # 4174 | North American QRP CW Club # 2446 Flying Pigs QRP # 1983 | SKCC # 4853 | QCWA #34679 W5JH Black Widow paddle #601 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed
On 8 Aug 2009 at 8:15, Peter Wollan wrote: > This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious. People have been > talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving? In the UK of course using a mobile while driving is illegal (unless it is hands free), on the spot fine if caught. There are special exemptions for amateur kit, though I wouldn't want to be stopped by the police speaking into a 2m handheld - or even worse sending morse while driving. Sadly this reflector is drifting WAY off topic. I recently resubscribed to see what was happening in Atpos but if these sort of threads continue I will be leaving again. 73 Dave G3YMC http://www.davesergeant.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed
This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious. People have been talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving? The problem is that doing anything other than driving while you're driving leads to inattention or distraction -- and a dramatic increase in the likelihood of a wreck. You may feel that you're not like other people, you can tell when you're not driving well, and you can handle it. Drunk drivers think that way too. I like the idea of mobile CW, and I admire the people who can do it. But I'm not going to do it myself. Peter N8MHD On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM, wrote: > Your inability to perceive the problem is (likely) directly proportional to > the years you have been doing code. ;) > > I did code mobile for the first time recently. Coming back from dropping my > son off at Camp Lejeune. It was the New Eng. QSO party. My paddles were the > buttons on the mic of a 706. It was lots of listening up front. Then just > reply to their call. > > I didn't try running a freq while driving. You have to save something to > shoot for. > > David Wilburn > NM4M > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: ".k8dd." > > Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:43:55 > To: Grant Youngman > Cc: Elecraft_List Reflector > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed > > > I've never understood that line of thought. > Why would you take target practice at little tykes? That's unreal. > > On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and > people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m. That's all ok. But > talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a > microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key > or paddle and let it sit there. > And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head? > That's not an argument either! > I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW. > > 73 :^] > Hank K8DD > > > > Grant Youngman wrote: >> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone >> here, even with a hands-free. I wonder if I could get away with >> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while >> sending mobile CW :-) >> >> Grant/NQ5T >> >>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could >>> copy >>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles, >>> etc. >>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at >>> home. Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone >>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used. >> > > > GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! > Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:10:05 -0700, Dave W7AQK wrote: >Hi All, > >May I offer another suggestion? First of all, I tend to agree with those >who say the forearm should be supported by the table, with the upper arm >vertical. Seems to me that not supporting the arm with the table would >substantially add to the probability of fatigue. Have to disagree here... Arm-off-the-table works fine for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-JkkkKGUHM&fmt=18 I can do this all day... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SythbsvxZfA&fmt=18 Even the worst key is useable (but I wouldn't recommend it)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSSAGY_L6YE&fmt=18 I think maintaining a loose "linkage" in the wrist, elbow and shoulder really helps to relax. I like to fidgit around a bit while sending CW; can't do that with my arm glued to the table. YMMV, of course! Whatever works best for you. 73, Drew AF2Z __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] W1 - Power readout Low
David, Check Q1 - does it have zero ohms resistance (when powered) from the drain to ground? It should when in the low range, but not in the high range. Q2 and Q5 should behave similarly. It seems your W1 is stuck in the high range even though the firmware thinks otherwise - that would be a logical consequence of a shorted Q1, Q2 and/or Q5. It my guess here is not correct, then the firmware chip itself may have a faulty input for the VSCL signal. 73, Don W3FPR David Heinsohn wrote: > I recently built a W1. It worked fine both via the LEDs and remotely > via the puter. About a week ago the indicated output power dropped such > that it always shows less than 1.4w. The selected output on the K2 is > 5w. My old analog 200w scale power meter still shows about 5w as it did > when the W1 was agreeing with it. Any ideas what's changed that might > cause this? I've looked at the manual and checked the settings on the > remote program. Even locked the W1 to the 14w scale with no effect. > > TNX > de > kd0r > David > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Spectrogram Software
David: The version of Spectrogram which matches the K2 Xfil alignment procedures which I have written (and the alignment docs themselves) is available at www.n0ss.net go to the main page and then select the K2-Specific page. About half way down the page, you'll find Spectrogram v5.1.7 and the alignment docs avaiable for downloading. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS At 21:27 08/07/2009, you wrote: >Does anyone have a good link Spectrogram Software? The link from the >Elecraft site and one other one I've found are under construction with >no links to the software. > >TNX AGN >de >kd0r >David > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
David and All, Well, I actually didn't intend to infer that the upper arm had to be perfectly vertical. That is usually dicated by the height of the operating table. I was basically trying to say that the arm would/should not be totally extended, and that the forearm would/should be supported by the table. However, your question makes me wonder if there might be some benefit to having a key lower somewhat so that the upper arm could be more vertical. I'll have to try that. Basically though, the idea is to have the forearm resting comfortably, so that weight of the arm is not a factor. The hand and wrist do the work, not the arm. It just seems to me, from your drawing, the arm would tend to be more involved in the process. That further suggests to me that the tension thing I talked about would be more of a problem--perhaps not. When I rest my forearm on the table, I can relax my arm. In the position shown in your drawing, I would have to support the weight of the arm using arm and shoulder muscles. It just seems logical to me that this would have to cause some amount of fatigue at some point. The bottom line I think is that the arm should be as comfortable as possible. It has been a while since I really did long hours with a hand key. When I was in the Army though, it was 8 hours a day. I distinctly remember that some operating tables seemed too high, so I was always looking for an adjustable chair. My arms seem to be more "relaxed" when they are closer to my body, but that may really be a question of relaxing the shoulders as well. I prefer to have the key closer to me, so that does suggest that the upper arms be more vertical than extended. That may sound mundane, but for long operating periods I think it matters. You might experiment a bit. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: "David Cutter" To: "David Y." ; "Ron D'Eau Claire" ; "'Ken Kopp'" ; Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol > David > > That's something I can't understand. How do you make the upper arm > vertical (in both views) with the elbow on the table? The table would > have to be very low or your chair very high and your stomach right up (and > over) the edge of the table. Do you sit square to the table or at an > angle? A picture would paint a thousand words. > > 73 > > David > G3UNA > ps a friend has suggested that you sit that way to send American Morse > whereas we sit our way to send International Morse. Phew, I can feel the > flames licking around me already ; - ] > > > >> Hi All, >> >> May I offer another suggestion? First of all, I tend to agree with those >> who say the forearm should be supported by the table, with the upper arm >> vertical. Seems to me that not supporting the arm with the table would >> substantially add to the probability of fatigue. >> >> Anyway, my suggestion is this--relax! Seriously, I think a substantial >> contributor to fatigue and "glass arm" is tension. The wrist and hand >> cannot really perform effectively when tension is permitted. Under >> tension, the muscles soon tire. I like to compare this to a golf swing, >> in that nothing will defeat a golf swing more than tension. There is >> absolutely no way you can properly execute a golf swing if your arms are >> locked and tense. I think the same principal applies here. >> >> I taught CW for a while when I was in the Army. I probably didn't have >> command of all the appropriate techniques, but when I saw a student (most >> of them actually) with a "death grip" on his key, I knew the output was >> going to be pretty stinko--at least after a short while. By just getting >> them to relax their forearm and wrist, the improvement was really quite >> dramatic. It sometimes took a while to adjust their rhythm to a "proper" >> and relaxed rocking motion of the wrist, but it usually worked. >> >> There's a lot more to good technique than just what I have described. I >> think folks like Ron, KU7Y, (he wrote a booklet on this sort of stuff), >> and others, could add a great deal. I'm pretty sure my overall technique >> was lacking in many ways, but there are some folks out there who can make >> a hand key sing! >> >> Dave W7AQK >> >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
Let me jump ont this wagon too. (Having taught morsecode receiving and sending to radio-officers for 5 years) I was taught the 'EU-way', key on the side of the table. So, I taught that to my student also. What i see and feel when I do it the 'US-way', elbow on the table, it works fine as long as I relax and let the wrist talk. Not any different from the 'EU-way'. I would use different keys for the two ways though. 73, Arie PA3A (PS: most of the time I use a vibroplex now) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
David That's something I can't understand. How do you make the upper arm vertical (in both views) with the elbow on the table? The table would have to be very low or your chair very high and your stomach right up (and over) the edge of the table. Do you sit square to the table or at an angle? A picture would paint a thousand words. 73 David G3UNA ps a friend has suggested that you sit that way to send American Morse whereas we sit our way to send International Morse. Phew, I can feel the flames licking around me already ; - ] > Hi All, > > May I offer another suggestion? First of all, I tend to agree with those > who say the forearm should be supported by the table, with the upper arm > vertical. Seems to me that not supporting the arm with the table would > substantially add to the probability of fatigue. > > Anyway, my suggestion is this--relax! Seriously, I think a substantial > contributor to fatigue and "glass arm" is tension. The wrist and hand > cannot really perform effectively when tension is permitted. Under > tension, the muscles soon tire. I like to compare this to a golf swing, > in that nothing will defeat a golf swing more than tension. There is > absolutely no way you can properly execute a golf swing if your arms are > locked and tense. I think the same principal applies here. > > I taught CW for a while when I was in the Army. I probably didn't have > command of all the appropriate techniques, but when I saw a student (most > of them actually) with a "death grip" on his key, I knew the output was > going to be pretty stinko--at least after a short while. By just getting > them to relax their forearm and wrist, the improvement was really quite > dramatic. It sometimes took a while to adjust their rhythm to a "proper" > and relaxed rocking motion of the wrist, but it usually worked. > > There's a lot more to good technique than just what I have described. I > think folks like Ron, KU7Y, (he wrote a booklet on this sort of stuff), > and others, could add a great deal. I'm pretty sure my overall technique > was lacking in many ways, but there are some folks out there who can make > a hand key sing! > > Dave W7AQK > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol
Hi All, May I offer another suggestion? First of all, I tend to agree with those who say the forearm should be supported by the table, with the upper arm vertical. Seems to me that not supporting the arm with the table would substantially add to the probability of fatigue. Anyway, my suggestion is this--relax! Seriously, I think a substantial contributor to fatigue and "glass arm" is tension. The wrist and hand cannot really perform effectively when tension is permitted. Under tension, the muscles soon tire. I like to compare this to a golf swing, in that nothing will defeat a golf swing more than tension. There is absolutely no way you can properly execute a golf swing if your arms are locked and tense. I think the same principal applies here. I taught CW for a while when I was in the Army. I probably didn't have command of all the appropriate techniques, but when I saw a student (most of them actually) with a "death grip" on his key, I knew the output was going to be pretty stinko--at least after a short while. By just getting them to relax their forearm and wrist, the improvement was really quite dramatic. It sometimes took a while to adjust their rhythm to a "proper" and relaxed rocking motion of the wrist, but it usually worked. There's a lot more to good technique than just what I have described. I think folks like Ron, KU7Y, (he wrote a booklet on this sort of stuff), and others, could add a great deal. I'm pretty sure my overall technique was lacking in many ways, but there are some folks out there who can make a hand key sing! Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: "David Cutter" To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" ; "'Ken Kopp'" ; Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic - Straight-key speed cpontrol > Well, you could knock me down with a feather ! (As mum used to say) I > cannot imagine sending for more than a few minutes like that. From your > description, the upper arm must be at a considerable angle to the body, > whereas the way I'm used to, the upper arm is vertical, ie in a 'natural' > or > relaxed position. Similarly, with the lower arm horizontal, the wrist has > an easy time because it is also in an easy, relaxed position. With your > description, the wrist must be bent quite sharply and I can imagine glass > arm following quite quickly, hence the bug key invention so the whole arm > rests on the table. > > I had a quick look in that book but couldn't find a picture of the method > you describe. I drew a side view for RADCOM several years ago showing the > sitting position and received no comments. > > There's a modern equivalent: the computer key board and mouse. I use > these > several hours a day and need my chair raised quite high to get my arms as > near horizontal as possible, but it's never quite right, hence I use wrist > supports for both. That's why typist chairs are so much higher than desk > chairs. > > > The way I've explained it to trainees is that the wrist and fingers are > like > a gearbox, or, perhaps in modern parlance - an interface - between the > heavy > weight of the arm and the delicate instrument which is the fingers. The > fingers stay flexible and springy as the wrist bounces up and down over a > range of 2 to 3 inches which is translated by the fingers into a movement > of > perhaps only 2 to 4 thou, ie less than a paper thickness for high speed > work. By the way I used a spring setting around 2oz. > > I could go on... > > Thanks for the education Ron, Ken and all. > > 73 > > David > G3UNA > > > > >> Ha, ha David. We're separated by more than a "common language"! >> >> The first time I saw the form of sending you describe with the arm in >> mid-air was about 10 years ago and I was astounded! >> >> Here in the USA since the the military and so civilian services taught >> everyone to lay their arm on the desk as Ken described. That goes back >> to, >> at least, the mid 1930's. That's how I've always used a straight key. >> >> I visited a buddy in Holland for the first time a few years ago and took >> with me as a gift a nice straight key. He immediately put it on the edge >> of >> his desk and wailed away on it with his arm in the air. My jaw dropped. >> >> We did do that here but only in mobile units where the key was strapped >> to >> one leg. In that use we also cranked the spring tension down much tighter >> than normal when the key was on the desk. >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> -Original Message- >> "The elbow should rest on the desk and the fingers on the key's knob. " >> >> I couldn't disagree more! I have always taught as I was taught that the >> key >> >> is at the edge of the desk and no part of your body touches the desk, >> except >> >> perhaps the other hand. The forearm should be horizontal, sit up >> straight >> and relax the shoulders. It's very similar to typing. The telegraphers >> of >> old had to send for hours and this is the way they did it; I was o
