Re: [Elecraft] K2, Bluetooth, and Android

[Nick Garner]

Hi Tom,
Here's a bunch of links:

HamLog Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.n3wg.hamlog&hl=en
Hamlog iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hamlog/id308437400?mt=8
HamLog Mac: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hamlog/id411282466?mt=12
KX3UI Mac: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kx3ui/id590043143?mt=12
K3UI Mac: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/k3ui/id626886809?mt=12
K2UI Mac: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/k2ui/id662821836?mt=12

Nick


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Thomas Taylor  wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:43:52 -0700
> Nick Garner  wrote:
>
> > Hi Jim,
> > HamLog on Android has wired serial and Bluetooth in addition to that same
> > Wi-Fi control in the Piglet app.
> >
> > I'm the author so please feel free to send any feedback my way.
> >
> > 73,
> > Nick
> > N3WG
> > On Sep 4, 2014 4:03 PM,  wrote:
> >
> > > Well, I've slipped cautiously into the 21st century...
> > > Bought an Android tablet device last week and did some playing with it
> > > using the BlueTerm app to communicate with my K2 using the little
> > > Bluetooth adapter I concocted a few weeks ago. As expected, I was able
> to
> > > control the radio with text strings transmitted over the Bluetooth
> link.
> > > Proof of concept. But inconvenient to actually operate the radio.
> > >
> > > After a modestly rigorous search I've not uncovered any Android apps
> > > designed to control the K2 (in the manner of the ones for K3 and KX3).
> > > Piglet comes close, but uses WiFi rather than Bluetooth, so needs a
> > > network environmment.
> > >
> > > Anbody know of any I missed, or any in the works?
> > > Alas, my programming skills would be at the level of "Android
> Programming
> > > for Dummies"  :^))
> > >
> > > 73
> > > Jim, N5IB
> > >
>
> < snip >
>
> Hi Nick,
> Could you please supply us with a url for your hamlog application?
>
> Thanks, Tom  KG7CFC
>
> --
> Life takes on meaning when you become motivated, set goals and charge
> after them
> in an unstoppable manner.
> -Les Brown
>
> ^^  --...  ...--  / -.-  --.  --...  -.-.  ..-.  -.-.
>
> 
> Tom Taylor  KG7CFC
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[mcduffie]

On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:09:59 -0500, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

> I got a tip from someone on a boatanchor list several years ago about RCA
> (sold by Radio Shack) 40-5035 bookshelf speakers. 

I've just been reading along on this thread, and one speaker I would mention is
another RS model, albeit an oldie.  I don't have a K3, so can't tell you how it
would sound on one, but the RS MC-800 (40-1975) is the best sounding one I've
had on my radios.  The low end does very well down below 50Hz, ramping up at
about 20-25Hz, and making lots of good power over 50Hz.  I love it.  To my worn
out ears, the full range is important to me.  I can't hear high end anyway, but
can still hear when I go out past 3K on the receiver.  It sports a 7" sub-woofer
and 2" tweeter, also a port.  The speaker is rated 100-20K, but does better than
that on the low end.  Full resolution is best for these ears to decipher the
overall signal.  So-called communications receivers like Motorola or GE mobile
speakers sound terrible to me.

To each his own.  :o)

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:43 PM, Luis V. Romero  wrote:

> 
> This is sort of like those beautifully machined knob sets... $250 for a VFO 
> knob that probably cost less than $20 to make!
> 
> But then, yes, Im guilty of accessorizing as well... I had my callsign 
> engraved on my K3's display window and it cost me $25, so I wont throw 
> Bencher Paddles in a glass Shack  :)
> 

I suspect you underestimate the cost of materials, CNC milling, finish 
machining/polishing, coating, and QC of the knobs.  But — we all spend too much 
money on what might seem to be “little” things.

I got a tip from someone on a boatanchor list several years ago about RCA (sold 
by Radio Shack) 40-5035 bookshelf speakers.  These are just slightly larger 
(and older) than the common Minimus 7 things, but play a whole lot better.  I 
found several of them over time on the auction site, and use them on virtually 
all of my BA radios — and a pair on the K3.   Very nice audio quality with 
reasonable low end and efficient enough for the K3 to drive them easily.  They 
have a 5 inch cone and a mylar ribbon (Linaeum) tweeter.  Nice little speaker.  
They still show up from time to time.  There’s a 40-5037 that shows up more 
frequently and is just a bit larger, but I don’t have any experience with them.

Potato Potahto … :)

Grant NQ5T

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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Luis V. Romero]

Joe, et al:

Awfully expensive, but, hey, they match the K-Line...

This is sort of like those beautifully machined knob sets... $250 for a VFO 
knob that probably cost less than $20 to make!


But then, yes, Im guilty of accessorizing as well... I had my callsign 
engraved on my K3's display window and it cost me $25, so I wont throw 
Bencher Paddles in a glass Shack  :)


I wish Phonema the best of luck... And I dont argue that its a lovingly 
crafted accessory whose designer is very proud of.  However, for my money, I 
will continue to listen through my very nice sounding Yamaha YST-M101 
powered speakers and my well worn Yamaha CM500 headset.


Yes, the speakers dont match, but the do sound good, and dont pick up RF. 
And that is the beauty of a free market!


73

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa, FL
K3, P3, KRX3, KAT500, KPA500 and a K1 (which will soon be for sale)


Message: 10
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:08:18 -0400
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3
Message-ID: <54090d02.5080...@subich.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


On 2014-09-04 8:37 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
> Sales must be a little slow,

I would expect them to be slow given a list price of 129EUR (106EUR
Export) plus shipping and the cost of export documentation.

Although a case that approximates the K-line look is nice, one can
achieve the same performance in 3" or 4" cube speakers from several
sources for between $20 and $50 *per pair* (new) or get an even wider
response from "two way" bookshelf speakers for around $70 - $80.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Joseph Carter]

I picked up a pair of Bose 161 speakers at their outlet for $80 - fantastic for 
my 64 year old ears.

Joe, w9jc

On Sep 4, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:

> Powered speakers in the Motorhome is just not going to happen.
> I want a non-powered speaker that will work nicely with my k3.
> YMMV of course
> 
> Gary
> Vk1ZZ
> K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
> On 05/09/2014 10:37 AM, "Fred Smith"  wrote:
> 
>> Sales must be a little slow, price might be adjusted soon being the market
>> he playing for.
>> 
>> Fred/N0AZZ
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> W2BLC
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 6:19 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3
>> 
>> Perhaps Phonema Speakers should argue their case on their own website?
>> 
>> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] A Comparative Performance Assessment (of Aftermarket KX3 Heatsinks)

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Folks - Lets close the thread and take the HS comparison discussion off list as 
it is getting outside of our guidelines limiting commercial postings at one per 
month.  (Several of the posters have direct interests in some of the products 
being discussed.)

We also exceeding the single topic short term posting limit.

73,

Eric
List Moderator
elecraft.com
_..._


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Walter Underwood]

It probably should be in the index somehow. The KX3 has it, too.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/

On Sep 5, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Jim Rogers  wrote:

> Well, do I feel stupid!  Geez, my second K3 and I either ignored this or 
> forgot it. I choose to say "forgot" because at my advanced age, I have an 
> excuse. :-))  Thanks Walter.
> 73s Jim W4ATK
> On 9/5/2014 5:29 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> See “VFO B Alternate Displays” on page 36. The displays are “AFV” and “dbV”.
>> 
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740107%20K3%20Owner's%20man%20D10sm.pdf
>> 
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Jim Rogers  wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, I missed it too. Where do we find this internal audio voltmeter.  It 
>>> isn't is my manual's index. ??
>>> 
>>> 73s Jim, W4ATK
>>> 
>>> On 9/5/2014 1:04 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>  .. Use the K3's internal audio voltmeter to determine this.  
> Turn off AGC, with the antenna connected, calibrate the dB readout to 
> zero following the instructions in the manual, then remove the antenna.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
 Here I have been a K3 owner for several years and I never knew that there 
 was an internal audio voltmeter.  I admit to maybe having missed this in 
 reading the documentation but every time Jim (K9YC) speaks, I learn 
 something.
 
 73, phil, K7PEH
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Dave KW4M]

Agreed.  I had to make a mount for mine.

See here.   



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View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Phonema-Speaker-for-K3-tp7592810p7592845.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Jim Rogers]

Well, do I feel stupid!  Geez, my second K3 and I either ignored this or 
forgot it. I choose to say "forgot" because at my advanced age, I have 
an excuse. :-))  Thanks Walter.

73s Jim W4ATK
On 9/5/2014 5:29 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

See “VFO B Alternate Displays” on page 36. The displays are “AFV” and “dbV”.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740107%20K3%20Owner's%20man%20D10sm.pdf

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/

On Sep 5, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Jim Rogers  wrote:


Well, I missed it too. Where do we find this internal audio voltmeter.  It 
isn't is my manual's index. ??

73s Jim, W4ATK

On 9/5/2014 1:04 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

  .. Use the K3's internal audio voltmeter to determine this.  Turn 
off AGC, with the antenna connected, calibrate the dB readout to zero following the 
instructions in the manual, then remove the antenna.

73, Jim K9YC

Here I have been a K3 owner for several years and I never knew that there was 
an internal audio voltmeter.  I admit to maybe having missed this in reading 
the documentation but every time Jim (K9YC) speaks, I learn something.

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Walter Underwood]

See “VFO B Alternate Displays” on page 36. The displays are “AFV” and “dbV”.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740107%20K3%20Owner's%20man%20D10sm.pdf

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/

On Sep 5, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Jim Rogers  wrote:

> Well, I missed it too. Where do we find this internal audio voltmeter.  It 
> isn't is my manual's index. ??
> 
> 73s Jim, W4ATK
> 
> On 9/5/2014 1:04 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>  .. Use the K3's internal audio voltmeter to determine this.  Turn 
>>> off AGC, with the antenna connected, calibrate the dB readout to zero 
>>> following the instructions in the manual, then remove the antenna.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> Here I have been a K3 owner for several years and I never knew that there 
>> was an internal audio voltmeter.  I admit to maybe having missed this in 
>> reading the documentation but every time Jim (K9YC) speaks, I learn 
>> something.
>> 
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Jim Rogers]

Well, I missed it too. Where do we find this internal audio voltmeter.  
It isn't is my manual's index. ??


73s Jim, W4ATK

On 9/5/2014 1:04 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

  .. Use the K3's internal audio voltmeter to determine this.  Turn 
off AGC, with the antenna connected, calibrate the dB readout to zero following the 
instructions in the manual, then remove the antenna.

73, Jim K9YC

Here I have been a K3 owner for several years and I never knew that there was 
an internal audio voltmeter.  I admit to maybe having missed this in reading 
the documentation but every time Jim (K9YC) speaks, I learn something.

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Preamp

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/5/2014 2:08 PM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

I didn't say that the pre-amp isn't worth the money - I just said that
supplying more noise to the ears isn't a good justification for it.
It's well known that the K3 needs a pre-amp for effective weak-signal
work on the higher bands, but it's not (primarily) because it makes
the noise louder - it's because it raises the signals (from the
antenna) above the receiver's internal noise.


Exactly.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Rick WA6NHC]

The Motorola (black box, 4" square, plus mount) mobile speaker sounds 
good to these semi-deaf ears.  They're one of the best communication 
speakers ever made, if you find one, snag it; you'll be happy.  And if 
you actually use them mobile, they take a LOT of accidental abuse 
(kicking, dropping, spills).


73,
Rick wa6nhc


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and Preamp

[iain macdonnell - N6ML]

Hi Ted,

I didn't say that the pre-amp isn't worth the money - I just said that
supplying more noise to the ears isn't a good justification for it.
It's well known that the K3 needs a pre-amp for effective weak-signal
work on the higher bands, but it's not (primarily) because it makes
the noise louder - it's because it raises the signals (from the
antenna) above the receiver's internal noise.

73,

~iain / N6ML



On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:
> Aware as I am that the word ³data² is not the plural of the word
> ³anecdote,² I can offer a subjective anecdote to the contrary:  With the
> PR6-10 in the RX Ant line  of my K3, there are CW signals I can copy
> (barely) which I cannot hear at all with the preamp out of the circuit,
> regardless of the RF and AF gain settings.  I can¹t explain it and I don¹t
> have the equipment to do any objective measurements; but it is the case.
> I have found the pre-amp to be worth the money.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>
>
>>--
>>
>>Message: 25
>>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:34:17 -0700
>>From: Jim Brown 
>>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp
>>Message-ID: <5409f419.9050...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>>On Fri,9/5/2014 9:59 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>>> That doesn't justify a pre-amp. If you want more acoustic noise, just
>>> turn up the AF gain. The only reason (I can see) to use a preamp is if
>>> the receiver internal noise level is higher than the atmospheric noise
>>> (coming from the antenna).
>>
>>Right.
>>
>>> If the noise level perceptibly drops when
>>> you disconnect the antenna, a preamp isn't going to do much for
>>> you
>>
>>Perceptibly is not the right word if you care about weak signal work.
>>The difference should be at least "twice as loud" when the antenna is
>>added, which corresponds to about 10 dB.  Use the K3's internal audio
>>voltmeter to determine this.  Turn off AGC, with the antenna connected,
>>calibrate the dB readout to zero following the instructions in the
>>manual, then remove the antenna.
>>
>>73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2014-09-05 10:53 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Every compact (low-profile), non-powered, front-facing speaker I've
> ever tested with the K3 has fallen short of the K3's own built-in
> speaker performance at low audio frequencies.

While that may be the case if the K3 is used in isolation, if there is
a shelf above it, the internal K3 speaker is severely crippled.  I am
also *not* a fan of excess bass; I routinely set the 50/100 Hz EQ bands
to -16 dB and set the DSP Low frequency limit to 200 Hz for all modes.
200 Hz is comfortably above the 90 - 100 Hz cutoff for small speakers
and makes audio much easier to understand by eliminating the rumble
that contributes nothing to intelligibility.

> Front-facing, non-powered speakers the same height as the K3 that
> sound just as good at the low frequency end may be a theoretical
> possibility, but I haven't found any yet.

A front facing 3"x5" oval speaker or 3.5" circular speaker in a P3 case 
lined with acoustic damping and a properly sized rear port would most

likely have excellent low-end response.  Add a crossover and feed an
external subwoofer if you really want the low end but be prepared to go
to a powered system instead of passive.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-09-05 10:53 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Every compact (low-profile), non-powered, front-facing speaker I've
ever tested with the K3 has fallen short of the K3's own built-in
speaker performance at low audio frequencies. The speaker in the top
cover has the benefit of a very large planar mounting surface. It is
also very sensitive (95 dB SPL, 1 kHz @ 1 m). Finally, the top-cover
orientation reinforces sound when the radio is operated near a wall.

External speakers that are relatively tall, such as 8"Hx4Wx4D"
bookshelf speakers, can perform as well as the internal speaker as
long as their resonating enclosures are large enough, and/or have
some sort of acoustic porting to make up for small geometry. But they
also need good sensitivity if unpowered. They can be very inexpensive
and look great with the K-Line.

Front-facing, non-powered speakers the same height as the K3 that
sound just as good at the low frequency end may be a theoretical
possibility, but I haven't found any yet.

73, Wayne N6KR





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[Elecraft] K3 and Preamp

[Dauer, Edward]

Aware as I am that the word ³data² is not the plural of the word
³anecdote,² I can offer a subjective anecdote to the contrary:  With the
PR6-10 in the RX Ant line  of my K3, there are CW signals I can copy
(barely) which I cannot hear at all with the preamp out of the circuit,
regardless of the RF and AF gain settings.  I can¹t explain it and I don¹t
have the equipment to do any objective measurements; but it is the case.
I have found the pre-amp to be worth the money.

Ted, KN1CBR



>--
>
>Message: 25
>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:34:17 -0700
>From: Jim Brown 
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp
>Message-ID: <5409f419.9050...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>On Fri,9/5/2014 9:59 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>> That doesn't justify a pre-amp. If you want more acoustic noise, just
>> turn up the AF gain. The only reason (I can see) to use a preamp is if
>> the receiver internal noise level is higher than the atmospheric noise
>> (coming from the antenna).
>
>Right.
>
>> If the noise level perceptibly drops when
>> you disconnect the antenna, a preamp isn't going to do much for
>> you
>
>Perceptibly is not the right word if you care about weak signal work.
>The difference should be at least "twice as loud" when the antenna is
>added, which corresponds to about 10 dB.  Use the K3's internal audio
>voltmeter to determine this.  Turn off AGC, with the antenna connected,
>calibrate the dB readout to zero following the instructions in the
>manual, then remove the antenna.
>
>73, Jim K9YC
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Re: PX3?

[Wayne Burdick]

"rmoo...@bellsouth.net [KX3]" wrote:

> YAY!!!  HUZZAH!!  (etc.)


No kidding ;)

Wayne





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Re: [Elecraft] PX3?

[Wayne Burdick]

Yes, PX3s have started shipping.

Be sure to use KX3 firmware rev. 2.19 or later (the latest beta release, soon 
to go to production status).

73,
Wayne
N6KR



"rmoo...@bellsouth.net [KX3]"  wrote:

> Can we hope for shipping soon?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Phil Hystad]

>  .. Use the K3's internal audio voltmeter to determine this.  Turn 
> off AGC, with the antenna connected, calibrate the dB readout to zero 
> following the instructions in the manual, then remove the antenna.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC

Here I have been a K3 owner for several years and I never knew that there was 
an internal audio voltmeter.  I admit to maybe having missed this in reading 
the documentation but every time Jim (K9YC) speaks, I learn something.

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[W2BLC]

A point that many may be missing is the RX Equalizer in the K3. I have 
found that using nearly any speaker you can make setting adjustments 
that will result in satisfactory audio. Keyword is satisfactory.


My hearing is not exemplary by any means, so I have chosen to use 
amplified external "computer type" speakers that are RF proof. I have 
both the Creative T10s and a pair of Behringer MS40s. Both do a good job 
and both are treble/bass adjustable. My preference is the MS40s - they 
are room filling without blowing out the walls - making them excellent 
for my rag-chew operations. They are a little large for many 
installations, hence the reason I mentioned the T10s. The MS40s are two 
channel, so I run another rig through them as well as the K3.


Now back to the point: These speakers do a fine job, but by using the RX 
Equalizer - they do a super job. Tailoring your receive audio is very 
important for those with lousy hearing, for rooms with poor acoustics, 
and to accommodate less then perfect speakers.


Good speakers are not cheap - neither is the K3. The best should get the 
best - resulting in the best user experience.


Bill W2BLC K-Line
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/5/2014 9:59 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

That doesn't justify a pre-amp. If you want more acoustic noise, just
turn up the AF gain. The only reason (I can see) to use a preamp is if
the receiver internal noise level is higher than the atmospheric noise
(coming from the antenna).


Right.


If the noise level perceptibly drops when
you disconnect the antenna, a preamp isn't going to do much for
you


Perceptibly is not the right word if you care about weak signal work.  
The difference should be at least "twice as loud" when the antenna is 
added, which corresponds to about 10 dB.  Use the K3's internal audio 
voltmeter to determine this.  Turn off AGC, with the antenna connected, 
calibrate the dB readout to zero following the instructions in the 
manual, then remove the antenna.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] SWR Readings:Differences

[Wes (N7WS)]

Stephen,

Thanks for your note.

If hams would think of mismatch in terms of return loss and coupler directivity 
then they might be less surprised at the variability of SWR measurements between 
different 'instruments', such as the built-in SWR measurement circuits within 
our transmitters/amplifiers.


This is an old discussion.  See: 
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&m=125734496911585&w=2  and: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@mailman.qth.net/msg76426.html


Wes  N7WS


On 9/3/2014 2:35 PM, Stephen Prior wrote:

Wes,

As someone involved in the design and manufacture of couplers for VSWR
measurement for the aviation industry (admittedly some 30 odd years ago!),
I would say that you are 100% correct, although I suspect that in amateur
gear number 4 in your list is probably the biggest culprit of all.  We had
people on the production tweaking bridges to maximise directivity and it
was a job that required some skill, e.g. bending leads of matched zero bias
Schottky diodes until the spec was achieved - admittedly this was in the
days before the large scale adoption of lead-less components, which must
have made things a bit easier.

73 Stephen G4SJP




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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - S/N 2917 - FW version MCU 2.18 & DSP 1.30!

[Mark via Elecraft]

Jim,


In support of Bob’s post requesting more information, let’s take this one step 
at a time:



Re:  “my KX3 has no Power Out with a "matched antenna".”  


It is not clear what you mean by a “matched antenna”, but based on your later 
statements, I assume you mean “matched” with your MFJ-993B auto tuner.  In my 
mind, that conflicts with the next statement:


“When I "match" the antenna There's power out…” 


That implies that after letting the MFJ tuner find a match, the KX3’s output is 
normal.  That is an expected outcome.


“…but when I switch to the antenna straight, there's nothing out.”



So is the antenna still “matched” when you switch to the “antenna straight”?  
If so, how is it matched?  It sounds like you are saying that when you feed the 
antenna directly (not utilizing the MFJ auto tuner), you don’t get any power 
out of the KX3.  That is also an expected outcome IF your antenna length has 
not been adjusted to be resonant at, or near, the frequency you are using, or 
you don’t use feed line length matching.  I am reading between the lines here, 
but it appears this may be the case since you sometimes use the MFJ tuner.  
(There is nothing wrong with using non-resonant antennas if you understand 
their use).


Assuming you do not have the KXAT3 Tuner installed (or it is disabled or 
bypassed), it sounds like the KX3 is protecting itself from a high SWR by 
folding its output power back.  In addition to non-resonant antennas, high SWR 
can also be caused by faulty feed lines, and many other causes.  A pretty 
inclusive list was posted on this list about a week ago.


As Bob mentioned in his post, more information would be helpful.  Detailed info 
about your setup when you get good output vs. your setup when you don’t get 
power out would be helpful.  I certainly understand that there is a tendency to 
panic and fire off a quick e-mail when things don’t work right (I've done it, 
too!), but the details are important and may save your KX3 a trip back to the 
factory for no reason, which is a waste of your time and theirs.


Mark

KE6BB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[iain macdonnell - N6ML]

That doesn't justify a pre-amp. If you want more acoustic noise, just
turn up the AF gain. The only reason (I can see) to use a preamp is if
the receiver internal noise level is higher than the atmospheric noise
(coming from the antenna). If the noise level perceptibly drops when
you disconnect the antenna, a preamp isn't going to do much for
you

73,

~iain / N6ML


On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Brian  wrote:
> Quite some time ago there was a discussion that adding a preamp at the K3
> antenna terminals couldn't possibly help.  The argument is that it can't
> improve S/N
>
> Perhaps here is the reason it does help from somebody versed in ear/brain
> signal processing.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> On 8/28/2014 17:45, David McClain d...@refined-audiometrics.com
> [FMT-nuts] wrote:
>> Some weeks ago I was musing about the way we all listen to the weak ones
>> on the HF bands And then it struck me, based on what I know about our
>> hearing:
>>
>> While we all dislike the constant rush of noise in the headphones, it
>> actually turns out to be helpful, and that's why we instinctively turn up
>> the volume and just live with the noise. When you do that, you are imposing
>> strong ambient noise on your hearing. That in turn affects the way your
>> hearing works. It produces a much steeper response to weak signals riding in
>> the noise. So a very small change in signal level causes a much larger
>> change in apparent loudness in your brain. It makes it easier to read the
>> weak signals.
>>
>> Coupled with that, we also need that noise to produce something called
>> "stochastic resonance", which is the basis for dithered noise added to
>> recordings. It lets you hear things that are solidly below the noise floor.
>>
>> - 73 de Dave, N7AIG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Fred Jensen]

Uhmmm ... Given the domain of David's email address, he's probably 
right.  However ... between doing other things while in SE Asia in the 
mid-60's, my team and I occasionally made it onto one of the larger 
bases for a week or so.  I usually made a trip to the MARS station to 
get a long-overdue "radio fix," and ran a few phone patches for the troops.


At most of the stations, there were a couple of homebrew sound-deadened 
phone booths with a telephone just outside the radio room.  Even when 
conditions were really good, it was fairly common for a wife to not 
understand her husband, sitting about 3 meters from me, however, she had 
no problem understanding me.  They had run a number of tests locally and 
the telephone input to the KWM-2A's sounded just like the mic on the air.


I finally concluded that there were two factors at work:  First off, he 
didn't sound like her husband, but she had never heard me except on the 
radio so I was understandable.  Second, and maybe more important, even 
with good conditions, there was inevitable HF noise, and she was 
listening to the noise instead of the weird voice purporting to be her 
husband.


As a result of the "other things," I came home quite deaf and I run the 
AF gain right at the distortion point in the headphones [my hearing aids 
don't work under the phones].  T-storm static crashes cover weak CW 
signals for me, possibly because they drive the cans into distortion. 
Steady noise -- grass on the P3 baseline -- causes me no problems.  I've 
never managed to get much benefit out of the K3 APF, likely due to pilot 
error.


I do know that our hearing mechanism is very complex.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 9/5/2014 5:14 AM, Brian wrote:

Quite some time ago there was a discussion that adding a preamp at the
K3 antenna terminals couldn't possibly help.  The argument is that it
can't improve S/N

Perhaps here is the reason it does help from somebody versed in
ear/brain signal processing.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/28/2014 17:45, David McClain d...@refined-audiometrics.com
[FMT-nuts] wrote:
 > Some weeks ago I was musing about the way we all listen to the weak
ones on the HF bands And then it struck me, based on what I know
about our hearing:
 >
 > While we all dislike the constant rush of noise in the headphones, it
actually turns out to be helpful, and that's why we instinctively turn
up the volume and just live with the noise. When you do that, you are
imposing strong ambient noise on your hearing. That in turn affects the
way your hearing works. It produces a much steeper response to weak
signals riding in the noise. So a very small change in signal level
causes a much larger change in apparent loudness in your brain. It makes
it easier to read the weak signals.
 >
 > Coupled with that, we also need that noise to produce something
called "stochastic resonance", which is the basis for dithered noise
added to recordings. It lets you hear things that are solidly below the
noise floor.
 >
 > - 73 de Dave, N7AIG



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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Wayne Burdick]

Every compact (low-profile), non-powered, front-facing speaker I've ever tested 
with the K3 has fallen short of the K3's own built-in speaker performance at 
low audio frequencies. The speaker in the top cover has the benefit of a very 
large planar mounting surface. It is also very sensitive (95 dB SPL, 1 kHz @ 1 
m). Finally, the top-cover orientation reinforces sound when the radio is 
operated near a wall.

External speakers that are relatively tall, such as 8"Hx4Wx4D" bookshelf 
speakers, can perform as well as the internal speaker as long as their 
resonating enclosures are large enough, and/or have some sort of acoustic 
porting to make up for small geometry. But they also need good sensitivity if 
unpowered. They can be very inexpensive and look great with the K-Line.

Front-facing, non-powered speakers the same height as the K3 that sound just as 
good at the low frequency end may be a theoretical possibility, but I haven't 
found any yet.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Dennis Griffin]

I've used the Yaesu SP-8 for a decade or more with my FT-847 and am quite 
pleased with it. That pairing allows me to hear a 60 Hz AC hum or the 67 Hz PL 
tone on a repeater signal, which can be filtered out, if I choose to. I seem to 
recall that I paid about $150 for it new. It is an example of an OEM external 
speaker with good range & a full sound, plus some filtering options.

73 de Dennis KD7CAC
Scottsdale, AZ

On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:13 AM, "Joe Subich, W4TV"  wrote:

> 
>> I just checked Universal Radio pricing on speakers from the big 3 JA
>> factories and it appears they sell speakers ranging from 100 to 290
>> dollars. maybe, just maybe IF the Phonema speaker is of "Good"
>> quality then the price is competitive I feel.
> 
> Looking at the list of "matching" speakers from YaeComWood at HRO shows
> all of them, except the Kenwood SP-23, to include audio filtering at an
> approximately $190 price point.  The SP-23 is $85.  The Yaesu SP-9000
> is an interesting outlier ($325) but it contains *two* speakers and
> filter sets (main and second receivers).
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Paul VanOveren]

I use the Yeasu Vertex mobile speakers (2) with my K-line, and my K3 has
the sub receiver and they seem to work very well. I wear hearing aids and
have tinnitus and when in CW mode, no problems. I use the Yamaha c-500
headset/boom mike when I operate SSB. The speakers are hooked to the back
panel of the K3, thru a splitter from Radio Shack. And the price is right,
$49.00 each.

Paul



On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

>
>  I just checked Universal Radio pricing on speakers from the big 3 JA
>> factories and it appears they sell speakers ranging from 100 to 290
>> dollars. maybe, just maybe IF the Phonema speaker is of "Good"
>> quality then the price is competitive I feel.
>>
>
> Looking at the list of "matching" speakers from YaeComWood at HRO shows
> all of them, except the Kenwood SP-23, to include audio filtering at an
> approximately $190 price point.  The SP-23 is $85.  The Yaesu SP-9000
> is an interesting outlier ($325) but it contains *two* speakers and
> filter sets (main and second receivers).
>
> To be competitive, the Phonema product would need to add selectable
> low/high cut filtering at the current price point.  Without filtering,
> the SP-23 is a more appropriate benchmark (65EUR at current exchange
> rates).
>
>  I checked the link sent to me from Joe and will give a pair a try.
>> After all, for $18.60 a pair it won't break the bank and I cannot
>> imagine they are as a bad as the one in my K3.
>>
>
> For the benefit of others - that link is the Pyle 3.5" cube speakers
> on Amazon.  Their specs are 90 - 18000 Hz (comparable to the Phonema).
> I've had them on my K3 for a week now and although they are a bit
> "light" on the low end compared to two way bookshelf speakers, they
> are an excellent performer.  I give them about 6dB of boost in the
> 200/400 Hz RX EQ and set 50/100 Hz to -16 dB (prevents DAC clipping
> at high volume levels) and they even sound acceptable when SWLing on
> the broadcast band.
>
> 73,
>
>... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-09-05 1:21 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
>> I just checked Universal Radio pricing on speakers from the big 3 JA
>> factories and it appears they sell speakers ranging from 100 to 290
>> dollars.
>> maybe, just maybe IF the Phonema speaker is of "Good" quality then the
>> price is competitive I feel.
>> I checked the link sent to me from Joe and will give a pair a try. After
>> all, for $18.60 a pair it won't break the bank and I cannot imagine they
>> are as a bad as the one in my K3. Again, my ears are not good. Add Tinitus
>> to the mess I hear and sometimes I feel like i am losing the
>> plot.those
>> who know me probably think I lost that years ago...Grin
>>
>> 73 to all
>>
>>
>> On 5 September 2014 15:04, Phil Wheeler  wrote:
>>
>>  I agree with Gary. Not a product for me (my hearing is too limited) but
>>> others will see (er, hear) things differently. As to price, we all have
>>> our
>>> views on that. None of us bought Elecraft gear because it was the least
>>> expensive on the market -- well, I didn't; better said, price was not a
>>> primary decision factor :-)
>>>
>>> Phil W7OX
>>>
>>> On 9/4/14, 4:50 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>  Phonema should have the right to explain and respond to comments raised
 on
 this reflector in fairness to all i should think.
 I dont mind and i am considering their product seriously.
 My hesitation is about audio quality to help my hearing as the  big 3
 produce dreadful speakers for MY hearing but that is my personal
 opinion,
 nothing more.

 Gary
 Vk1ZZ
 K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
 On 05/09/2014 9:19 AM, "W2BLC"  wrote:

   Perhaps Phonema Speakers should argue their case on their own website?

>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
>
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Phonema Speaker for K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I just checked Universal Radio pricing on speakers from the big 3 JA
factories and it appears they sell speakers ranging from 100 to 290
dollars. maybe, just maybe IF the Phonema speaker is of "Good"
quality then the price is competitive I feel.


Looking at the list of "matching" speakers from YaeComWood at HRO shows
all of them, except the Kenwood SP-23, to include audio filtering at an
approximately $190 price point.  The SP-23 is $85.  The Yaesu SP-9000
is an interesting outlier ($325) but it contains *two* speakers and
filter sets (main and second receivers).

To be competitive, the Phonema product would need to add selectable
low/high cut filtering at the current price point.  Without filtering,
the SP-23 is a more appropriate benchmark (65EUR at current exchange
rates).


I checked the link sent to me from Joe and will give a pair a try.
After all, for $18.60 a pair it won't break the bank and I cannot
imagine they are as a bad as the one in my K3.


For the benefit of others - that link is the Pyle 3.5" cube speakers
on Amazon.  Their specs are 90 - 18000 Hz (comparable to the Phonema). 
I've had them on my K3 for a week now and although they are a bit

"light" on the low end compared to two way bookshelf speakers, they
are an excellent performer.  I give them about 6dB of boost in the
200/400 Hz RX EQ and set 50/100 Hz to -16 dB (prevents DAC clipping
at high volume levels) and they even sound acceptable when SWLing on
the broadcast band.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-09-05 1:21 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:

I just checked Universal Radio pricing on speakers from the big 3 JA
factories and it appears they sell speakers ranging from 100 to 290 dollars.
maybe, just maybe IF the Phonema speaker is of "Good" quality then the
price is competitive I feel.
I checked the link sent to me from Joe and will give a pair a try. After
all, for $18.60 a pair it won't break the bank and I cannot imagine they
are as a bad as the one in my K3. Again, my ears are not good. Add Tinitus
to the mess I hear and sometimes I feel like i am losing the plot.those
who know me probably think I lost that years ago...Grin

73 to all


On 5 September 2014 15:04, Phil Wheeler  wrote:


I agree with Gary. Not a product for me (my hearing is too limited) but
others will see (er, hear) things differently. As to price, we all have our
views on that. None of us bought Elecraft gear because it was the least
expensive on the market -- well, I didn't; better said, price was not a
primary decision factor :-)

Phil W7OX

On 9/4/14, 4:50 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:


Phonema should have the right to explain and respond to comments raised on
this reflector in fairness to all i should think.
I dont mind and i am considering their product seriously.
My hesitation is about audio quality to help my hearing as the  big 3
produce dreadful speakers for MY hearing but that is my personal opinion,
nothing more.

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 05/09/2014 9:19 AM, "W2BLC"  wrote:

  Perhaps Phonema Speakers should argue their case on their own website?


Bill W2BLC K-Line




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[Elecraft] Speakers for K3

[Doug Ellmore]

I purchased a 4ohm/8 ohm 250w audio amp, then two 6x9 4ohm 200w speakers
and 6x9 enclosed car stereo kicker speaker cabinets.  I took a stereo
1/8 to dual (R/L) RCA connectors to connect the radio to the amp.  Then
speaker wire to the kicker boxes/speakers.

I keep the audio low when I turned on the radio and amp, then raise the
audio on the radio a bit and then the amp a bit.  I have great audio  I can
hear DX from anywhere in the house.

With the AM filter and AM station selected, it is like being in the
broadcast studio.

The little audio amp also works with my smartphone/laptop with a
appropriate stereo cable, too

Parts where all off of Amazon.

You can make smaller speakers that take up less space, but I have the room
for the larger speakers.


Doug Ellmore - NA1DX
d...@ellmore.net
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[Elecraft] K3 and preamp

[Brian]

Quite some time ago there was a discussion that adding a preamp at the 
K3 antenna terminals couldn't possibly help.  The argument is that it 
can't improve S/N


Perhaps here is the reason it does help from somebody versed in 
ear/brain signal processing.


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/28/2014 17:45, David McClain d...@refined-audiometrics.com
[FMT-nuts] wrote:
> Some weeks ago I was musing about the way we all listen to the weak 
ones on the HF bands And then it struck me, based on what I know 
about our hearing:

>
> While we all dislike the constant rush of noise in the headphones, it 
actually turns out to be helpful, and that's why we instinctively turn 
up the volume and just live with the noise. When you do that, you are 
imposing strong ambient noise on your hearing. That in turn affects the 
way your hearing works. It produces a much steeper response to weak 
signals riding in the noise. So a very small change in signal level 
causes a much larger change in apparent loudness in your brain. It makes 
it easier to read the weak signals.

>
> Coupled with that, we also need that noise to produce something 
called "stochastic resonance", which is the basis for dithered noise 
added to recordings. It lets you hear things that are solidly below the 
noise floor.

>
> - 73 de Dave, N7AIG
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 "DATA A" mode, memories, and remote commands.

[Dave B]

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