[Elecraft] KX3 + JT9 -- any successes?
Hello, all, I've been working with my stock KX3 and HF JT65 / JT9 via the WSJT-X program. Brief results: --Mostly bad luck with JT modes until I did the Extended VFO Temperature Compensation Procedure. --After doing the procedure, I can work JT65 pretty reliably for P ~ 3 W. --I can decode JT9 sometimes, but I can't get anyone to decode my transmissions. (20M) The result of the temperature calibration was that I seemed to have +/- 1 Hz stability (compensation?) at 50 MHz from 22 to 55 C. I thought that was pretty good, but it still does not seem to give good JT9 results. (JT9 is extremely narrow-band with 9 tones spaced at 1.7 Hz across ~15 Hz of bandwidth.) I have seen what some folks have done with larger heat spreaders and heat sinks, and even cooling fans. Has anyone tried liquid cooling? (Just kidding!) My question is whether any of these strategies have resulted in reliable operation for JT9 -- or should I just scratch that mode off my list? (I do have good experience with this software and JT9 on the Ten-Tec Orion.) I'm not complaining. Nobody promised the KX3 was good for EME -- or VLF datacom! It is a shame that there's not better thermal isolation for the reference oscillator. I think Elecraft meets its own (vague - what time scale, what environmental conditions?) +/-1 ppm typical spec, but the problem is that we need better stability than that over a 1-minute transmission cycle -- .05 ppm or even .01 ppm. A typical TCXO like the Orion's will do that, since the oscillator is thermally well separated from the PA heat sink. TIA / 73 Martin AA6E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 + JT9 -- any successes?
That's about right. There's no reason (after some warm-up) that the oscillator temperature should change by more that 0.5C (or whatever) over a 1 minute transmission -- unless your oscillator is sitting close to the PA heat sink like the KX3. The KX3, like most amateur radios, has a weasely frequency stability specification. It says +/- 1 ppm typical over 0-50C. What's weasely about that? 1. typical, to begin with. It means something like your chances are pretty good it's within +/- 1 ppm if you are a normal user. It's a weasel word, because you would have a hard time proving that your radio did not meet this spec. (Problems? Well, you're just not typical.) A more serious spec would be worst case, but we hardly ever see a worst-case spec in the amateur world. 2. What does 0-50C mean? A reasonable user might think that means ambient operating temperature. But it might just as well mean indicated oscillator temperature, which is around 38C for my idle KX3 at the moment, while my ambient is ~22C. 3. What is the timescale? A radio that flicks around +/- 50 Hz on 6 Meters would be in spec, but nasty even for SSB. Most of us would probably assume that short-term stability should be better than long-term. That would be true if we're talking about drift due to slow temperature changes, supply voltages, component aging, or whatever. The published spec does not give much insight as to what to expect in practice. The one minute on / one minute off that we have in JT modes is awkward for the KX3. The oscillator typically sees a large temperature swing over a minute's transmitting -- several degrees C, depending on power setting. For what it's worth, the Orion claims +/- 3 ppm stability (and accuracy - another issue) over its operating range, but its short term (1 minute) stability is much better than the KX3's. I assume the K3 would be similar to the Orion, but sadly there is no K3 on my desk. This sounds like splitting hairs -- a good description of JT9 decoding! The KX3 is a fine radio for most applications, just not bleeding edge digimodes. I admit to being fascinated by precise time and frequency. I particularly like the new Flex 6500/6700's GPS stabilized option, 5 x 10**-12 over 24 hours, for a price. That might support JT9 at 20 GHz. Even there, the devil is in the details. They don't give fluctuation vs timescale info. 73 Martin AA6E Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 14:02:30 -0700 From: Wes (N7WS)w...@triconet.org To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 + JT9 -- any successes? Message-ID:53d95d66.5090...@triconet.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Maybe he's holding the temperature to 0.5 deg C On 7/30/2014 10:33 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: It is good that you are not complaining, but I just don't*get* it. The specification is for ± 1ppm over a temperature range of 0 to 50 degC. You say the mode being tried needs .05 ppm or even .01 ppm. Why would anyone attempt to use a radio for that mode for which the specification is worse than the needed stability by a margin of 20 to 100 times? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KX3 kudos, comment
So I'm really pleased with my KX3 (kit) that came to life recently. The radio performs very nicely, and, as I've pointed out elsewhere (blog.aa6e.net), it has volumetric efficiency of some 20 X my Ten-Tec Orion. The packaging is almost too clever for my ancient fingers to deal with. [Changing the AA cells is no great fun. Not that I will use them much.] Here is a minor complaint. The KX3 utility for Linux is not well labelled on the web site. It is not clear which Linux systems it is compatible with, and it is definitely not stated that it is incompatible with 64-bit Linux. I found this out the hard way. On reflection, it's no great surprise. Still -- good labelling is a good thing. I would have appreciated a source code distribution, but failing that I can run that other OS that starts with W when I have to. 73 to all Martin AA6E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Dayton comment
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd been perusing Steve Ford's blog on the ARRL website. Friday morning right after Hara Arena opened, the DS3 broadband to Hara crashed and didn't come back up. It was a challenge for people like Steve trying to upload bits to the Internet. Try cellular internet. Works great. Most of the cellular companies have it. I use the Verizon version of it and it works FB. I can use it while travelling down the interstate (in the passenger seat). Paul I get 100 kb/s on my Sprint Treo 650, good enough for some purposes. But you get tired typing with the tiny keyboard! 73 Martin AA6E ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu FT-2000 v K-3?
Brian has some good points. Personally, I think the jump to 400-1000 Watts from 100 is so great that you really need to think of a separate amplifier. 100 W is clearly enough for 90% of QSOs (that I make, anyway), and it would be a shame to compromise a good 100 W transceiver package to allow for an internal QRO amp and/or power supply. After 40 years as a ham, I finally broke down and bought a used/upgraded SB-220 for my station. It has helped on occasion, and it's kind of an interesting piece of gear in its own right. One thing I have noticed, though, is that if I call CQ at 100 W, I get nice replies. If I call CQ at 1000 W, I get lots of very weak replies. That's the flip side of reciprocity. Yes, it's good to have a good receiver, but you may need to strain to work those marginal Q's. (Actually, that's half the fun, especially if it's Swains Island.) 73 Martin AA6E Brian Lloyd wrote: On May 10, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Elliott Lawrence wrote: One thing that would help would be an additional option for a 200w capable radio the K3D!!! I wonder if that is a future possiblity??!! Do you really think that 3dB will be enough of an advantage? That is all you will get when you go from 100W to 200W. It seems to me that one needs at least 6dB to make enough difference to make the effort worthwhile. 6dB seems to be the difference between, I know you are there but I can't quite copy you, and, QSL. If you started at 100W then you would need 400W to make that difference. I tend to think that 10dB is about the right increment and that would be 1000W. That leads me to feel that if you need more power than 100W you are going to need an external amplifier. And then there is the issue of path symmetry. Path loss is going to be the same in both directions. Given that most rigs out there are in the 100W range the signal arriving at each end will be the same. Hmmm. Oh! The K3 is likely to have a much better receiver than the one the other guy is using. So if he is using 100W and you have acceptable copy on him you might need a 3dB-6dB improvement in your signal in order to deliver an equivalent readability signal to the other end. Interesting thought. Maybe a 200-300W PA wouldn't be such a bad idea after all. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] KUSB for K3
There are many Serial - USB devices on the general market. (I use a Keyspan unit on my Orion, and it works nicely with Linux.) So, I wonder why Elecraft needs to offer its own unique product. (Or it could be someone else's product rebranded?) At least their price is competitive. 73 Martin AA6E Ken Wagner wrote: Hi Thom: I've seen nothing definitive on this but I'm pretty sure that this device is one that plugs the 9 pin end of the adapter into the 9 pin connector on the K3 and you use a USB cable between the adapter and your USB port on your computer. 73, Ken K3IU Thom LaCosta wrote: I see a KUSB option for the K3, Universal Serial Bus Adpatercan't seem to find it on the FaQ page. Does anyone know if it's an internal option, or an external adapter? I have a serial port-less computer and no luck finding adapters to give me a serial port. Thom www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 styling for XV transverters
The stock XV144 working with an IF of 28.0 - 29.7 MHz only covers 144.0 - 145.7 MHz, which excludes a lot of the FM activity. It's really aimed at CW/SSB work on 2M. It would definitely be nice to have an extended transverter (two crystals?) that would cover 144-148. We probably could live with poorer sensitivity/NF on the higher end. Styling is great as it is, but a set of skins for your favorite rig would be a plus, too. (I use mine with the black Orion!) 73 Martin AA6E David Fleming wrote: Since the K3 can do FM, I would expect the XV transverters to be popular add-ons. I know I will be getting the XV144 and the FM filter. Are there any plans to offer the transverters with K3 styling? -David W4SMT ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 styling for XV transverters
Interesting question, but my Tx duty cycle is pretty low on FM! Anyway, you can always dial back the exciter power. (On the Orion, anyway.) The spec sheet says 5W maximum recommended for high duty cycle FM Data operation. 73 Martin AA6E Gregg W6IZT wrote: I would be concerned about using the XV-xxx on FM. It does not appear to have the heat dissipation capabilities for long term key down operation -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin AA6E Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:05 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 styling for XV transverters The stock XV144 working with an IF of 28.0 - 29.7 MHz only covers 144.0 - 145.7 MHz, which excludes a lot of the FM activity. It's really aimed at CW/SSB work on 2M. It would definitely be nice to have an extended transverter (two crystals?) that would cover 144-148. We probably could live with poorer sensitivity/NF on the higher end. Styling is great as it is, but a set of skins for your favorite rig would be a plus, too. (I use mine with the black Orion!) 73 Martin AA6E David Fleming wrote: Since the K3 can do FM, I would expect the XV transverters to be popular add-ons. I know I will be getting the XV144 and the FM filter. Are there any plans to offer the transverters with K3 styling? -David W4SMT ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Why all those filters - K3
Don, the voice of sanity... As an Orion owner considering the K3, I am aware of quite a few folks in the Orion world who assume that ordering their rig with all the filters is going to be better than taking the standard factory option (4 filters: 1, 2.4, 6, and 20 kHz). In fact, extra roofing filters only help you when you're working in very hostile band conditions, like contesting. For normal mortals (me), the standard filters have been fine. Whether the K3 would need more than one roofing filter completely depends on your operating style, in my opinion. So, if in doubt, it's very reasonable to start with the one standard filter and add more as needed. If you add the second receiver, I think you have to decide all over again which filters you want to add to _it_. (I assume the first and second Rx do not have to be equal. One may have the general coverage option, for example, and the other not.) I certainly like the modular approach that lets you ease into the K3 world at a reasonable cost. 73 Martin AA6E Don Ehrlich wrote: I ordered mine with no crystal filters. They can always be installed later and by then I will have learned enough to know what I really want or need. And ... I know I am not wasting my money with a hasty decision. Remember, the DSP will do a good job of filtering without any crystal filters. As I understand it the radio will work well with none of the optional crystal filters installed. By the time I get to that point I am sure some consensus will have formed as to the best way to approach filter choice for various operating preferences. Don K7FJ Looking at the new K3 order form - one is faced with a potential order selection of some 8 or more filters. And some others coming on the scene, have been mentioned. Many are called roofing filters. I'm hoping Elecraft will explain the use, benefit and potential shortcoming of one's K3 - if they do or do not order any or all of these filters. For example, if I just want to have a slightly better narrow CW and narrow SSB filter selectability - which of all these - would be natural to order? I'm surprised of the need to order all of these filters in a 2007 DSP-based radio. For example, for Icom's IC-7000 - there are no optional filters to buy. Filters have gotten to be big ticket items, for rigs that could need them - ala $135 for a single SSB filter for a IC-703. $80 bucks a wack, for a IC-706MKIIG. And again - none are listed in the options list for a IC-7000. How do they perform the roofing function, and selectability function? Fred, N3CSY .learning, learning 2007 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
