Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
Jim Brown-10 wrote: Silly me. When I ordered my K3, I thought I was purchasing a radio optimized for HF, not VHF FM. Talk about square peg in round hole! I own several radios designed for VHF FM. I don't need another one. Jim. I've read a lot of your posts on this reflector and you are one of the people I have a lot of respect for as you obviously have a lot of knowledge in some areas. So I am disappointed to find you taking the same narrow minded attitude displayed by others that I don't need it, therefore it doesn't matter. The K3 comes with support for FM and, having paid for the crystal filter, I can tell you that it does a very fine job of receiving FM, better than any dedicated FM transceivers. Why would I want to use another transceiver for my FM operation? Elecraft is also now offering an internal 144MHz board as you surely must have noticed. Do you really think that it is just negative carping to complain that the K3 does not provide the same convenience of use when used for VHF FM that you expect on SSB and CW with your second receiver? By the way, I would be really interested to learn why it would be useful to use TX and RX EQ (and specifically the SAME TX and RX EQ selected for optimum SSB transmission and reception) in data modes. Or was that meant to be just another smart put-down? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-firmware-2-years-on-and-still-much-to-do-tp3674523p3680822.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Julian, G4ILO wrote: The K3 comes with support for FM and, having paid for the crystal filter, I can tell you that it does a very fine job of receiving FM, better than any dedicated FM transceivers. Why would I want to use another transceiver for my FM operation? For the operational reasons you've noted -- it is not designed nor optimized for operation on repeaters. Elecraft is also now offering an internal 144MHz board as you surely must have noticed. Do you really think that it is just negative carping to complain that the K3 does not provide the same convenience of use when used for VHF FM that you expect on SSB and CW with your second receiver? Yes, it is carping, because the K3 was not DESIGNED to be a 2M FM radio for operation on repeaters. The 2M board is a nice AFTERTHOUGHT, a nice package for remote use that obviates the need for an outboard transverter. Something that appears to have escaped you and other critics. Adding features to a product costs money, whether in the form of hardware, design costs, or programming. Elecraft products are NOT designed to be all things to all people. The K3 is designed as a competition-grade HF radio, and is optimized for the functions associated with HF operation. The fact that it can be ADAPTED to be a nice bed for VHF and UHF transverters is a nice feature. I don't know what common ham practice is in the UK, but here in North America, most hams who use competition-grade radios and transverters are using them for weak signal modes -- CW, SSB, and data modes like WSJT. Again, square peg, round hole. Yes, there are radios that work 160M to 2M (or even 440 MHz) with nice features for FM repeater operation. All that I know of are either 1) vastly inferior to the K3 with respect to RF performance or 2) FAR more expensive or 3) both. Last I looked, there were more than 50 coaxial cables in the Belden catalog, each of them optimzed for a specific use. Sure, Belden could manufacture a single cable type that would be optimum for the vast majority of those uses, but it would be FAR more expensive. Every product (or construction project, or antenna, or the setup of an operating position) has design compromises. What -- you don't have five SO2R operating positions with dedicated towers and antennas at 150 ft for each band? Only three Beverages? They're only 200m long? I'm apalled at the compromises you've made! By the way, I would be really interested to learn why it would be useful to use TX and RX EQ (and specifically the SAME TX and RX EQ selected for optimum SSB transmission and reception) in data modes. I don't see that the SAME EQ should be used for all modes, and I've privately advised Elecraft to develop the software to allow DIFFERENT settings for the various modes. Elecraft is a small company and has limited engineering staff. Sure, they could hire more engineers and do more wild and wonderful things, but that increases their cost of doing business. I'd far rather have a company that is financially stable and able to support their products than one that over-expanded and went out of business. As to specific reasons for EQ: Many hams have strong magnetic fields (mostly from big power supplies) in close proximity to their operating desk, and the K3 uses unshielded audio transformers on audio I/O. TXEQ that rolls off the low end can prevent the 50/60Hz field from modulating the transmitter when a computer sound card is used as a data modulator. RXEQ can be set to provide additional filtering ahead of the sound card to reduce the effects of QRM and QRN. As it turns out, the TXEQ that I find ideal for almost any practical mic includes full cut of the three lowest octave bands. Any mic with flat high end response also needs boost of the two highest 2/3-octave bands. The former is quite effective at attenuating the hum that my power amplifiers couple into the line input; the latter is a negative for data modes, and can increase the sidebands produced by distortion in the sound card. BTW -- I long ago also advised Elecraft to lose the transformers and 600 ohm resistors and to eliminate their pin 1 problems. 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
As to specific reasons for EQ: Many hams have strong magnetic fields (mostly from big power supplies) in close proximity to their operating desk, and the K3 uses unshielded audio transformers on audio I/O. TXEQ that rolls off the low end can prevent the 50/60Hz field from modulating the transmitter when a computer sound card is used as a data modulator. RXEQ can be set to provide additional filtering ahead of the sound card to reduce the effects of QRM and QRN. That has little if anything to do with it. BTW -- I long ago also advised Elecraft to lose the transformers and 600 ohm resistors and to eliminate their pin 1 problems. Since we're talking about problems with this list in recent threads, the biggest problem is that everyone here is an advisor, has a better idea, and believes that they are acutely aware of every issue, every engineering challenge every improvement that could conceivably be made, wants a new front panel, new knobs, a 1500W pa built into the new panadapter, rules on what the radio is REALLY supposed to be and (on and on and on) ... And all from everyone's individual siloed perspective -- the radio is this, the radio is that, the radio was designed just for me ... not for you so take your stupid ideas home ... etc., After a while, guys, the constant drone of the experts does nothing but raise the noise level, far beyond what even the improved NR in the K3 or the best NR on the planet (aside from the delete key or unsubscribing from the list) can deal with. Maybe the whole list should just sit back and take a very deep breath, listen more, and advise LESS! And if you do advise, don't come here to grumble about how your advice STILL hasn't made it into the radio and how Aptos just ignored your remarkable redesign. About the only thing worth reading regarding the K3 are the firmware announcements and the occasional post from Elecraft. The rest, for the most part, is worse than the effects of a touch controlled lamp sitting right next to the antenna. It's much quieter and far more pleasant to just occasionally check the website to find out what's new ... Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
Jim Brown-10 wrote: Yes, it is carping, because the K3 was not DESIGNED to be a 2M FM radio for operation on repeaters. The 2M board is a nice AFTERTHOUGHT, a nice package for remote use that obviates the need for an outboard transverter. Something that appears to have escaped you and other critics. Adding features to a product costs money, whether in the form of hardware, design costs, or programming. Elecraft products are NOT designed to be all things to all people. The K3 is designed as a competition-grade HF radio, and is optimized for the functions associated with HF operation. Well I don't think that's how many people see it, or even how Elecraft will market it once the 144MHz board is available. But in any case I have to disagree with you. I don't see any reason why the K3 could not be a perfectly good all-mode including FM radio if the memories could be made to work the way they do in other radios. Perhaps there is a reason I don't know about that they can't, but I always thought it was possible to do just about anything in software. The fact that it can be ADAPTED to be a nice bed for VHF and UHF transverters is a nice feature. I don't know what common ham practice is in the UK, but here in North America, most hams who use competition-grade radios and transverters are using them for weak signal modes -- CW, SSB, and data modes like WSJT. Again, square peg, round hole. Your generalizing, which is never a good thing. Personally I don't think of the K3 as a competition radio. I think of it as a nice compact radio that I bought because I had been a happy K2 owner since 1999 and had contributed to the K3's development though all the wishlist threads that had gone over the years on this very reflector (which in those days people enjoyed reading and contributing to.) I don't see that the SAME EQ should be used for all modes, and I've privately advised Elecraft to develop the software to allow DIFFERENT settings for the various modes. Well I and many others have publicly lobbied for it. But at the moment the options are the same EQ or no EQ unless you are prepared to go throough a cumbersome time-consuming procedure involving third party computer software that was suggested early in this thread, which doesn't seem to me an acceptable solution to something even my FT-817 can manage. Anyway, thank you for your reply, Jim. You've convinced me that the K3 isn't the right radio for me and others with similar interests. No doubt Elecraft will appreciate that. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-firmware-2-years-on-and-still-much-to-do-tp3674523p3681933.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
Grant Youngman wrote: About the only thing worth reading regarding the K3 are the firmware announcements and the occasional post from Elecraft. The rest, for the most part, is worse than the effects of a touch controlled lamp sitting right next to the antenna. It's much quieter and far more pleasant to just occasionally check the website to find out what's new ... One of the many suggestions I have made over the years which have been ignored like most of the others is that Elecraft set up an elecraft-announce list that only Eric, Wayne and Lyle can post to, and everyone else can just subscribe to. I believe that would address your issue. Perhaps they'll act on it this time. I really don't care any more. I don't plan to be around here much longer. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-firmware-2-years-on-and-still-much-to-do-tp3674523p3681949.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
Suicide is not permitted under current IARU regulations. Kent K9ZTV Julian, G4ILO wrote: I really don't care any more. I don't plan to be around here much longer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
I sincerely doubt that the K3 would have anywhere near the following it has if it didn't offer top-end competition-grade performance. If you truly do not value those characteristics, then I can quite well understand why you think it might not be the rig for you. I would be curious, though, what you eventually determine to be a better all round world-class transceiver. Any chance you'd be willing to stop back periodically to let us know? 73, Dave AB7E Julian, G4ILO wrote: Personally I don't think of the K3 as a competition radio. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
Personally I have one folder that the list as a whole is filtered into then I have another folder that any @elecraft.com or lyle's email address go into. You can do this with gmail using the label's. This is how I do it. If you want further help on how to make it go let me know and I can elaborate. ~BTH On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 15:36 -0700, Julian, G4ILO wrote: One of the many suggestions I have made over the years which have been ignored like most of the others is that Elecraft set up an elecraft-announce list that only Eric, Wayne and Lyle can post to, and everyone else can just subscribe to. I believe that would address your issue. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
