Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
As NW8L pointed out, there are simple updates to restore proper date displays in GPS receivers. An update should have a release date inside the build with the associated GPS week number when it was released. With a little coding, this will allow the receiver to display date properly for 1024 weeks following the release date. Another design peril is the Age of Data counters for almanac and ephemeris data which are 9 bits. A company from Illinois thought they could get by with an 8-bit byte, but in July 2004, a whole bunch of their mobile phones went screen of death at the transition from week 255 to week 256. Somebody commented that WAAS in HI was not as good in the ConUS. I wonder where this came from. I cannot imagine the FAA would put up with this unless it is just too easy to land a plane in HI. In 2017 the GPS guys at Los Angeles AFB were indicating 40 cm repeatability, around 1.3 nanoseconds without WAAS. Bob R – N7WY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
There is a warning on the TomTom site - and today I received an email from them regarding an older Garmin Etrex unit I own. It said in brief: === Due to the upcoming WNRO on 6 April 2019, the performance of your device will be impacted. While we no longer offer content and service updates for your device, we have made an update available that addresses the GPS Week Number Rollover (WNRO). TO UPDATE: Connect your device to your computer. Click the 'update now' button for instructions on how to update your device. === The message included the serial number of my device, so I suppose I must have registered it after purchasing it. The warning page is here: https://www.tomtom.com/en_us/updates/ Bob NW8L On Wed, 3 Apr 2019, n...@zianet.com wrote: Fred Jensen writes: Eventually, the 10-bit register holding the week number will overflow and reset to zero. That's all that's happening, it happens every 1,024 weeks, the first was in Aug 1999. The GPS reset has been the source of hysteria in various circles, including exhaustive discussions on the various private pilot and drone forums, since most aircraft and drones use GPS for real time positioning and navigation while in flight. In short, when this happened in 1999, changes were made to lengthen the roll over period to beyond our lifetime. The April 6 rollover only effects older GPS devices with the 10-bit registers. Basically, every GPS embedded device made in the last 10-15 years or so will not be affected - only the first generation devices. There are absolutely no warnings or cautions on the websites for Garmin, Magellan, or Trimble showing it is a non-issue for their GPS devices - not even mentioned. The FAA has a list of the very few GPS devices used in older private aircraft that could be effected, only if in flight when the rollover occurs. With 10,000+ people in the air at any moment, there would be a huge air of caution by the FAA and airlines if the rollover had any chance of effecting the GPS devices now in use. In this case, "Silence is golden." 73, Paul NA5N __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
Dave Cole (NK7Z) writes: How is HAARP involved in this conspiracy, it must be! GPS is being controlled by HAARP remotely through Google and FaceBook. What could go wrong? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
How is HAARP involved in this conspiracy, it must be! 73s and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Technical Specialist ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL OOC for Oregon On 4/3/19 12:30 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: The week number register is in the hardware aboard the GPS satellites, although receivers usually read and store it too. Each rollover is a "GPS epoch," epoch being a term used by space travelers, astronomers, and other folk dabbling in space-ish things to confuse the rest of us. The first epoch ended in Aug 1999 ... 1024 weeks is 19. years. We are approaching the end of epoch 2. In 1999, a few of the early GPS receivers hit the WNRO [week number roll over] and thought it had become 1980 again. Using a GPS receiver to discipline the K3 involves the clock signal and unless you are using your very very old receiver to tell you what the current date is, the WNRO will have no effect. Early in the first GPS epoch, it was discovered that the "civilian" signal was yielding somewhat better accuracy than the US Dept. of Defense had planned, and they implemented SA or Selective Availability to perturb the satellite clocks making it appear that you were moving around randomly in a 100-200 m area when you were in fact stationary. This would affect the clock signal at the receivers and thus the "discipline" applied to the K3. It wasn't very long before a number of entities, including manufacturers and the US Coast Guard ... found ways to get around SA. One is Differential GPS which places stations at very carefully surveyed locations, monitors their GPS reported positions, and transmits the errors. The DGPS receiver uses the errors to correct its own GPS position. If you have the new synthesizer for your K3 [or a K3s], you can hear and decode the DGPS signals, they're 100 bps MSK in the 284-458 KHz range and have a distinctive signature on a P3. The US DoD gave up on SA long ago but the DGPS stations remain, or at least did the last time I checked. One GPS conspiracy theory posited that there was a "back door" into the satellites put there by another country [which we'll leave nameless] which, when activated, would be used to cause all the aircraft in the air to converge on one point and create a great conflagration. Conspiracy theories have a half-life and fortunately this one was fairly short, similar to the half-life of disco and leisure suits. [:-) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 4/3/2019 11:24 AM, n...@zianet.com wrote: Fred Jensen writes: Eventually, the 10-bit register holding the week number will overflow and reset to zero. That's all that's happening, it happens every 1,024 weeks, the first was in Aug 1999. The GPS reset has been the source of hysteria in various circles, including exhaustive discussions on the various private pilot and drone forums, since most aircraft and drones use GPS for real time positioning and navigation while in flight. In short, when this happened in 1999, changes were made to lengthen the roll over period to beyond our lifetime. The April 6 rollover only effects older GPS devices with the 10-bit registers. Basically, every GPS embedded device made in the last 10-15 years or so will not be affected - only the first generation devices. There are absolutely no warnings or cautions on the websites for Garmin, Magellan, or Trimble showing it is a non-issue for their GPS devices - not even mentioned. The FAA has a list of the very few GPS devices used in older private aircraft that could be effected, only if in flight when the rollover occurs. With 10,000+ people in the air at any moment, there would be a huge air of caution by the FAA and airlines if the rollover had any chance of effecting the GPS devices now in use. In this case, "Silence is golden." 73, Paul NA5N __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
Thank you Skip K6DGW and Paul NA5N for your reply. I now can rest assured that my K3 will keep the discipline it needs. Richard K6CG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
The week number register is in the hardware aboard the GPS satellites, although receivers usually read and store it too. Each rollover is a "GPS epoch," epoch being a term used by space travelers, astronomers, and other folk dabbling in space-ish things to confuse the rest of us. The first epoch ended in Aug 1999 ... 1024 weeks is 19. years. We are approaching the end of epoch 2. In 1999, a few of the early GPS receivers hit the WNRO [week number roll over] and thought it had become 1980 again. Using a GPS receiver to discipline the K3 involves the clock signal and unless you are using your very very old receiver to tell you what the current date is, the WNRO will have no effect. Early in the first GPS epoch, it was discovered that the "civilian" signal was yielding somewhat better accuracy than the US Dept. of Defense had planned, and they implemented SA or Selective Availability to perturb the satellite clocks making it appear that you were moving around randomly in a 100-200 m area when you were in fact stationary. This would affect the clock signal at the receivers and thus the "discipline" applied to the K3. It wasn't very long before a number of entities, including manufacturers and the US Coast Guard ... found ways to get around SA. One is Differential GPS which places stations at very carefully surveyed locations, monitors their GPS reported positions, and transmits the errors. The DGPS receiver uses the errors to correct its own GPS position. If you have the new synthesizer for your K3 [or a K3s], you can hear and decode the DGPS signals, they're 100 bps MSK in the 284-458 KHz range and have a distinctive signature on a P3. The US DoD gave up on SA long ago but the DGPS stations remain, or at least did the last time I checked. One GPS conspiracy theory posited that there was a "back door" into the satellites put there by another country [which we'll leave nameless] which, when activated, would be used to cause all the aircraft in the air to converge on one point and create a great conflagration. Conspiracy theories have a half-life and fortunately this one was fairly short, similar to the half-life of disco and leisure suits. [:-) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 4/3/2019 11:24 AM, n...@zianet.com wrote: Fred Jensen writes: Eventually, the 10-bit register holding the week number will overflow and reset to zero. That's all that's happening, it happens every 1,024 weeks, the first was in Aug 1999. The GPS reset has been the source of hysteria in various circles, including exhaustive discussions on the various private pilot and drone forums, since most aircraft and drones use GPS for real time positioning and navigation while in flight. In short, when this happened in 1999, changes were made to lengthen the roll over period to beyond our lifetime. The April 6 rollover only effects older GPS devices with the 10-bit registers. Basically, every GPS embedded device made in the last 10-15 years or so will not be affected - only the first generation devices. There are absolutely no warnings or cautions on the websites for Garmin, Magellan, or Trimble showing it is a non-issue for their GPS devices - not even mentioned. The FAA has a list of the very few GPS devices used in older private aircraft that could be effected, only if in flight when the rollover occurs. With 10,000+ people in the air at any moment, there would be a huge air of caution by the FAA and airlines if the rollover had any chance of effecting the GPS devices now in use. In this case, "Silence is golden." 73, Paul NA5N __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
Fred Jensen writes: Eventually, the 10-bit register holding the week number will overflow and reset to zero. That's all that's happening, it happens every 1,024 weeks, the first was in Aug 1999. The GPS reset has been the source of hysteria in various circles, including exhaustive discussions on the various private pilot and drone forums, since most aircraft and drones use GPS for real time positioning and navigation while in flight. In short, when this happened in 1999, changes were made to lengthen the roll over period to beyond our lifetime. The April 6 rollover only effects older GPS devices with the 10-bit registers. Basically, every GPS embedded device made in the last 10-15 years or so will not be affected - only the first generation devices. There are absolutely no warnings or cautions on the websites for Garmin, Magellan, or Trimble showing it is a non-issue for their GPS devices - not even mentioned. The FAA has a list of the very few GPS devices used in older private aircraft that could be effected, only if in flight when the rollover occurs. With 10,000+ people in the air at any moment, there would be a huge air of caution by the FAA and airlines if the rollover had any chance of effecting the GPS devices now in use. In this case, "Silence is golden." 73, Paul NA5N __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
Not to worry Richard. GPS has two PR codes on different frequencies. The "civilian" code repeats every 100 ms. The "military" code repeats every 7 days, and the code is sometimes encrypted. At the end of the code, a "week number" is incremented by one and the code repeats. Eventually, the 10-bit register holding the week number will overflow and reset to zero. That's all that's happening, it happens every 1,024 weeks, the first was in Aug 1999. The first time this happened, the much younger Internet was filled with admonitions not to fly between a couple of dates in Aug since airplanes would fall from the sky. It also hatched several conspiracy theories [of course]. The hubris surrounding GPS Rollover Day had declined some, but as usual, some persists. It does sound like a good marketing ploy however ... "Get your new Trimble now before GPS resets and your old one quits." Kind of what Apple and Microsoft do when I think about it. [:-) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 4/3/2019 8:51 AM, Richard Thorpe via Elecraft wrote: On April 6th the satellite GPS system is going to be reset, does anyone out there know how this “reset” will effect the Trimble Thunderbolt that many of us use to “discipline “ the frequency on our K3 and K3S radios? I’m told that older sat programs will not work after the reset. My Trimble unit was old (surplus) when I purchased it on Ebay years ago. Thanks. R Thorpe K6CG K3,P3, KX3, PX3 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] April 6th GPS Reset
On April 6th the satellite GPS system is going to be reset, does anyone out there know how this “reset” will effect the Trimble Thunderbolt that many of us use to “discipline “ the frequency on our K3 and K3S radios? I’m told that older sat programs will not work after the reset. My Trimble unit was old (surplus) when I purchased it on Ebay years ago. Thanks. R Thorpe K6CG K3,P3, KX3, PX3 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
