Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Tony I have had the Icoms also and will tell you after owning the FTDX-5000MP for 2 years that it is the very best out there. IMHO the 5000's DNR should be an industry standard that they all should work toward and the way its implemented with the knob. Putting on my flame suit... 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 6:29 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月7日 (週三) 7:28 PM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Hello Fred, I think Yaesu have learnt some lessons from their FTDX9000 and implement a better mechanism of NR in their FTDX5000. I once used a FTDX9000 (before PEP), the NR was even worse than K3. However, I heard that after the PEP, the FTDX9000 improved a lot. I have no idea of how good of the PEP because I simply sold my FTDX9000 right the way after the disappointment. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ Fred Smith m...@mo-net.com 收件人︰ 'N2TK, Tony' tony@verizon.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月7日 (週三) 8:24 PM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Tony I have had the Icoms also and will tell you after owning the FTDX-5000MP for 2 years that it is the very best out there. IMHO the 5000's DNR should be an industry standard that they all should work toward and the way its implemented with the knob. Putting on my flame suit... 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 6:29 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
The NB on the K3 was awesome this morning with S9 buzz on 80M this AM Sent from my iPad Chuck, KE9UW (Jack for BMW motorcycles) On Nov 7, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Johnny Siu vr2...@yahoo.com.hk wrote: Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月7日 (週三) 7:28 PM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Hi Chuck, Yep, I agree with you with the NB. At KP2M I could not use our EU beverage on topband without the NB. It does a good job. I also use it at home on the high bands when I have a local noise generator act up. It never seems to run long enough for me to find it other than the general direction. I think it sees me when I leave the house with my directional noise finder and stops generating noise. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: hawley, charles j jr [mailto:c-haw...@illinois.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 11:33 AM To: Johnny Siu Cc: N2TK, Tony; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting The NB on the K3 was awesome this morning with S9 buzz on 80M this AM Sent from my iPad Chuck, KE9UW (Jack for BMW motorcycles) On Nov 7, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Johnny Siu vr2...@yahoo.com.hk wrote: Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人�U N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net 收件人�U elecraft@mailman.qth.net �魉腿掌讴U 2012年11月7日 (�L三) 7:28 PM 主�}�U Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Tnx Fred for the info. I have not had the opportunity yet to play with a FT5K. But I want to. We keep looking for the perfect rig. I like my pair of K3's over Icom except for the NR. Maybe someday we will have an upgrade on the NR? 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Fred Smith [mailto:m...@mo-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 8:25 AM To: 'N2TK, Tony'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Tony I have had the Icoms also and will tell you after owning the FTDX-5000MP for 2 years that it is the very best out there. IMHO the 5000's DNR should be an industry standard that they all should work toward and the way its implemented with the knob. Putting on my flame suit... 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 6:29 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Arie, I totally concur with your comments below. Since my first K3 (#311) I have whined about the NR, especially for SSB. NR now works pretty well on CW, but I rarely use it on SSB. My NR standard is still Icom. It is simple to use - one knob. And at low levels it takes out the background noise to make listening for long times more comfortable without affecting the quality of the signal as much as the K3. When I use NR on CW I use F1-1 and on SSB F5-1. I can't imagine using higher numbers as the intelligibility, especially on SSB degrades rapidly. And yes, if I am going to use NR I use it on the low bands, especially in the summer along with the NB. Overall I like the K3 much more than the Icom. But I do like the NR on Icom. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Interesting point about about the DSP in the KX3. I was told at Dayton that the DSP in the KX3 was several generations newer than what we have in the K3. With the audio problems Elecraft has had on the board (additional daughter card) and the continued continued complaints about audio distortion (Sherwood), maybe they will redesign the card with the newest DSP generation and offer it to K3 owners as an upgrade. Of course, this would lead to some interesting DSP firmware distribution problems with different hardware platforms to support! - 73, John, N0TA [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Johnny Siu Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:59:57 -0800 Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Yes, John. I did find the NR in KX3 is better. Among all the three elecraft radios, in SSB, the order of usefulness (in decending order) of NR could be of the following: KX3, K3 and KDSP2 in K2 I believe the DSP chip set in KX3 could be newer. The process power of the DSP chip could be easily found in the data sheet of that particular chip set. The process power, like CPU speed in our PC, does affect the performance (including NR) and design of the radio. Finding the 'sweet spot' for NR in KX3 is much easier but none of the 32 selections in K3 in NR is really useful for SSB. Unless for contest (I switch off the NR), I would go back to my Icom rather than K3. Luckily, I now have KX3 which has a much better NR. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ John Reilly reill...@comcast.net 收件人︰ Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月8日 (週四) 6:12 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Interesting point about about the DSP in the KX3. I was told at Dayton that the DSP in the KX3 was several generations newer than what we have in the K3. With the audio problems Elecraft has had on the board (additional daughter card) and the continued continued complaints about audio distortion (Sherwood), maybe they will redesign the card with the newest DSP generation and offer it to K3 owners as an upgrade. Of course, this would lead to some interesting DSP firmware distribution problems with different hardware platforms to support! - 73, John, N0TA [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Johnny Siu Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:59:57 -0800 Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Just a short note following my previous email below. I am now in IARU Region 3 conference in, Ho Chi Ming City, Vietnam. I am very happy to meet a number of Elecrafters as well. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ Johnny Siu vr2...@yahoo.com.hk 收件人︰ John Reilly reill...@comcast.net; Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月8日 (週四) 7:28 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Yes, John. I did find the NR in KX3 is better. Among all the three elecraft radios, in SSB, the order of usefulness (in decending order) of NR could be of the following: KX3, K3 and KDSP2 in K2 I believe the DSP chip set in KX3 could be newer. The process power of the DSP chip could be easily found in the data sheet of that particular chip set. The process power, like CPU speed in our PC, does affect the performance (including NR) and design of the radio. Finding the 'sweet spot' for NR in KX3 is much easier but none of the 32 selections in K3 in NR is really useful for SSB. Unless for contest (I switch off the NR), I would go back to my Icom rather than K3. Luckily, I now have KX3 which has a much better NR. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ John Reilly reill...@comcast.net 收件人︰ Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月8日 (週四) 6:12 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Interesting point about about the DSP in the KX3. I was told at Dayton that the DSP in the KX3 was several generations newer than what we have in the K3. With the audio problems Elecraft has had on the board (additional daughter card) and the continued continued complaints about audio distortion (Sherwood), maybe they will redesign the card with the newest DSP generation and offer it to K3 owners as an upgrade. Of course, this would lead to some interesting DSP firmware distribution problems with different hardware platforms to support! - 73, John, N0TA [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Johnny Siu Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:59:57 -0800 Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
*My thinking is the FW will change when Lyle and Wayne have finished as Wayne has already posted on here awhile ago. Hence this discussion may indeed be mute? Just my observations along with successful use today on 40M yet again. There will always be room for improvement but the noise changes daily, even minute by minute at times and there most likely will be times when nothing helps, nature of the beast springs to mind. I will wait for Wayne and Lyle to complete their next version and see how that goes. Regards, Gary * On 8 November 2012 10:28, Johnny Siu vr2...@yahoo.com.hk wrote: Yes, John. I did find the NR in KX3 is better. Among all the three elecraft radios, in SSB, the order of usefulness (in decending order) of NR could be of the following: KX3, K3 and KDSP2 in K2 I believe the DSP chip set in KX3 could be newer. The process power of the DSP chip could be easily found in the data sheet of that particular chip set. The process power, like CPU speed in our PC, does affect the performance (including NR) and design of the radio. Finding the 'sweet spot' for NR in KX3 is much easier but none of the 32 selections in K3 in NR is really useful for SSB. Unless for contest (I switch off the NR), I would go back to my Icom rather than K3. Luckily, I now have KX3 which has a much better NR. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ John Reilly reill...@comcast.net 收件人︰ Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月8日 (週四) 6:12 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Interesting point about about the DSP in the KX3. I was told at Dayton that the DSP in the KX3 was several generations newer than what we have in the K3. With the audio problems Elecraft has had on the board (additional daughter card) and the continued continued complaints about audio distortion (Sherwood), maybe they will redesign the card with the newest DSP generation and offer it to K3 owners as an upgrade. Of course, this would lead to some interesting DSP firmware distribution problems with different hardware platforms to support! - 73, John, N0TA [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting Johnny Siu Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:59:57 -0800 Hello Tony, I concur with your observation. In SSB, the NR in Icom is far better. Among all the 8 x 4 = 32 choices in NR settings in K3, I am afraid that none of them is as good as that of NR of Icom in SSB. The success of the implementation of IF DSP will depend on: 1. the processing power of the DSP chip set; 2. the ability to write an efficent firmware to optimise the performance of the DSP chip set. Surprisingly, while I was told that the NR in KX3 was the same as that in K3, I feel the NR in KX3 sounds better and less artifact. I trust elecraft keeps on looking for ways to improve the NR performance. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *Gary* *Start the day off slow, then taper off.* K3 #679 KX3 #2122 KPA500FT #18 KAT500FT 007 P3 #1629 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A Op 5-11-2012 23:37, Pete Smith N4ZR schreef: I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
This is pretty much my experience too [except the Africa part :-)]. I'm more or less CW-only and I just can't get NR to make any real improvement in the readability of signals. On the other hand, careful use of the DSP selectivity and passband position works great. The IF Noise Blanker works super on electric fence and ignition noise [although ignition noise seems to be a thing of the past these days], and not-so-bad on power mains noise. Really aggressive settings start to create their own racket, but that's true for any IF blanker ... punch big enough holes in the signal often enough and you start to hear the holes. The DSP NB is sort of in there with the NR for me and I rarely try it. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org On 11/6/2012 12:30 PM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote: Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. My two cents worth on the NR of the K3. When applying NR I woud expect a better S/N ratio of some kind on a weaker signal (that's why it is called NR). On SSB I never found a setting that increased the S/N ratio or readability of the signal to MY ears (settings F5-1 to F8-4) CW works better (F1-1 to F4-4) but I seldom use it. For good S/N ratio I rely totally on the K3 filtering with APF as last resort. The only time I really loved the NR, was when I worked on 160m in the 9L5MS dx-pedition (in tropic thunderstormy Africa) for the whole night. It kept the fatigue of constant static noise away. 73 Arie PA3A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
I don't have much experience with contesting but I'll add that one of my favorite uses for the noise reduction (NR) feature is to cut down on ear fatigue from atmospheric noise when I have the rig on in the background all day. I like to listen to the band with a wide filter setting so I can tune to something interesting when I hear it, but that constant background noise is hard on my ears after a while. NR solves it. I often disable NR when I'm tuned to a signal of interest, because it sounds more natural to me. --Andrew, NV1B maineware.net .. On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net wrote: This is pretty much my experience too [except the Africa part :-)]. I'm more or less CW-only and I just can't get NR to make any real improvement in the readability of signals. ... On 11/6/2012 12:30 PM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote: Hi Pete, The NR of the K3 is not a feature that shines. That's why I never tried it in contests. But in a few weeks there's the CQWW CW again. Maybe I will give it a go. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] DSP Noise Reduction and contesting
I've read Fred Cady's book and the manual, and I'm still at sea - anyone have opinions or recommendations about using NR for CW or phone contesting? I assume the settings are probably different. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
