Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Ron, The FCC regulations for 60 meter power is referenced to the maximum lobe of a dipole. Sooo -- That should be "0 dBd" (gain/loss relative to a dipole) rather than "0 dBi" (gain relative to an isotropic radiator). If my recollection is correct, 0 dBd is 2.15 dB greater than 0 dBi in the dipole's favored directions (perpendicular to the radiator). For those not familiar with an isotropic radiator, it is a point construct in free-space that radiates equally in all directions. 73, Don W3FPR Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > Exactly. As I observed, a dipole typically shows gain over an isotropic > radiator. The FCC rules don't say other than to assume a dipole has a gain > of 0 dBi for the purposes of this regulation. > > You can find more details and the complete text of the rules here: > > http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/faq-60.html#three > > Ron AC7AC > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Exactly. As I observed, a dipole typically shows gain over an isotropic radiator. The FCC rules don't say other than to assume a dipole has a gain of 0 dBi for the purposes of this regulation. You can find more details and the complete text of the rules here: http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/faq-60.html#three Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Is that a dipole in free space or a dipole over ground? gain. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby [END of thread]
AMEN! Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: > From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby [END of thread] > To: n...@yahoo.com > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net, "Bruce Bowman, NM5B" > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:54 AM > Let's let this thread rest too. > Eric > > > > ntenna. A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 > dBd, in case that's where you were headed. > > > > > > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby [END of thread]
Let's let this thread rest too. Eric > ntenna. A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 dBd, in case that's where > you were headed. > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
On Wed, 6 May 2009 09:57:11 -0700 (PDT), Wes Stewart wrote: >The rules seem to be mute on this, but I imagine the idea is a >theoretical, free-space dipole. Since FCC rules are written for a transmitter in the USA, I would assume they mean a resonant wire dipole suspended above the earth at heights hams would typically use. Using this interpretation, one would need to reduce power if running into a Yagi, but could run considerably more power into a mobile whip. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > From: Joe Subich, W4TV > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > To: "'Ron D'Eau Claire'" , elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:30 AM > > Wes is quite right for the USA at least, and to make it > easy > > on us the FCC defines a 1/2 wave dipole as a "0 > dBd" antenna > > even though most 1/2 wave antennas show some gain over > isotropic. > > Is that a dipole in free space or a dipole over ground? The rules seem to be mute on this, but I imagine the idea is a theoretical, free-space dipole. > > A dipole over ground will generally have a peak gain of > 8.3 to 8.5 dBi depending on the dipole mounting height and > the angle (elevation) at which the measurement is made. > > Given the efficiency of a mobile whip, transmitter output > power could probably be 500 watts before the ERP would > be equivalent to 50 watts to a dipole with 8.5 dBi gain. I did a quick EZNEC calculation of an 2.4 M tall whip with 20 ohm ground loss (not unreasonable and likely conservative) and the "gain" is about -11 dBd. Wes N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
> Wes is quite right for the USA at least, and to make it easy > on us the FCC defines a 1/2 wave dipole as a "0 dBd" antenna > even though most 1/2 wave antennas show some gain over isotropic. Is that a dipole in free space or a dipole over ground? A dipole over ground will generally have a peak gain of 8.3 to 8.5 dBi depending on the dipole mounting height and the angle (elevation) at which the measurement is made. Given the efficiency of a mobile whip, transmitter output power could probably be 500 watts before the ERP would be equivalent to 50 watts to a dipole with 8.5 dBi gain. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron > D'Eau Claire > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:32 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > > Wes, N7WS wrote: > > But the rule is 50 ERP, defined as 50 W into a 0 dBd antenna. > A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 dBd, in case > that's where you were headed. > > - > > Wes is quite right for the USA at least, and to make it easy > on us the FCC defines a 1/2 wave dipole as a "0 dBd" antenna > even though most 1/2 wave antennas show some gain over isotropic. > > It's up to the Amateur to document their antenna's gain if > not using a dipole. From 97.303(s): > > "Licensees using other antennas must maintain in their > station records either manufacturer data on the antenna gain > or calculations of the antenna gain." > > As Wes points out, that might allow using more than 50 watts > output into a small whip. It also requires running less than > 50 watts if using a gain antenna. > > Another difference between Hams and some other non-commercial > radio services is that traditionally most Hams take following > the rules quite seriously, whether or not any government > agency is watching us at the time. > > When one of our members doesn't, we take it upon ourselves to > point it out in the spirit of self-regulation. > > Ron AC7AC > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Wes, N7WS wrote: But the rule is 50 ERP, defined as 50 W into a 0 dBd antenna. A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 dBd, in case that's where you were headed. - Wes is quite right for the USA at least, and to make it easy on us the FCC defines a 1/2 wave dipole as a "0 dBd" antenna even though most 1/2 wave antennas show some gain over isotropic. It's up to the Amateur to document their antenna's gain if not using a dipole. From 97.303(s): "Licensees using other antennas must maintain in their station records either manufacturer data on the antenna gain or calculations of the antenna gain." As Wes points out, that might allow using more than 50 watts output into a small whip. It also requires running less than 50 watts if using a gain antenna. Another difference between Hams and some other non-commercial radio services is that traditionally most Hams take following the rules quite seriously, whether or not any government agency is watching us at the time. When one of our members doesn't, we take it upon ourselves to point it out in the spirit of self-regulation. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Bruce Bowman, NM5B wrote: > From: Bruce Bowman, NM5B > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:15 AM > Unrelated to the K3 performance complaint, what happened to > the 50 watt > PEP limit for US stations on 60-m? Nothing. Has that been changed? No. But the rule is 50 ERP, defined as 50 W into a 0 dBd antenna. A mobile whip has a lot lower gain than 0 dBd, in case that's where you were headed. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Unrelated to the K3 performance complaint, what happened to the 50 watt PEP limit for US stations on 60-m? Has that been changed? Bruce, NM5B - Original Message - From: "Robert Carroll" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > Guy- > > That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. > 73 > Bob W2WG > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, > K2AV > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response > from the > > RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across > the > antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? > S9 is > 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on > the > antenna. That's 106 over S9. > > Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind > of > desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really > want > Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I > vote > for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. > > Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio > off > the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio > distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts > externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a > formula > for wierdness no matter where the station. > > Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 > did get > toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the > K3's > fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the > front > > end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. > > Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in > World > > War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill > the > operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and > paid > for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that > reasonable. > > Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay > for > military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the > MSRP > for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in > your > driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. > > Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to > peacetime, > and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high > power > in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. > Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the > first > paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. > > We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use > filters, > stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate > with > nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from > friends, > and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which > embarrassed > > soul has to explain same to friend. > > Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low > grade > consideration. > > 73, Guy. > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Hello Steve, I totally agree with you! I get very severe overloading problems with a Winradio G313/180e and the only proposed solution by a group member was to use a smaller antenna! I'm using an horizontal loop ~96 m perimeter and with this same antenna, no problem with my K3. As i'm working mainly with JT65A(50W) and PSKnn (25W), i get very good results. For SSB, like you for CW, i will be "obliged" to add some dB to be able to be heard by a lot of stations perfectly received!( my idea is not to "break" pile-up!) 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI (66yo ham since 1970 but "younger" since i can play with my K3 #1212!) Steve Ellington wrote: > The complaint was not "ridiculous". The original observation wasThe K3 > distorts and the FT-817 doesn't under the same conditions. > > The poor guy was called stupid, ridiculous, ignorant and told he needs to > "study" and go back to school. > > I think he has a good question and I have yet to see a logical answer. > Claims that the K3 is "souped up" and exempt from strong signal overload is > the ridiculous part! > > If the K3 distorts on 109DB signals and the FT-817 doesn't then so be it. > It's a weakness. Just leave it at that. I'm sure the 817 has plenty more > weaknesses! > > Let's not let this list get like the TenTec reflector. Mention something > negative there and you are immediately put down or soon thrown off. > > I've recently subscribed to the IC-7600 Yahoo group just to watch how the > new radio was doing. So far I've seen two concerns. Some have a dimmer > screen saver than others and a few have had to do a master reset because of > audio drop out and it's starting to look like a glitch in some 3rd party rig > control program causing that. Otherwise, everyone seems satisfied. Of > course, those guys know that ICOM isn't going to respond to anything that's > said so maybe they just don't bother. > > I'm still enjoying my K3. Things have been rather lopsided lately however. I > am able to copy cw through the QRN better than the other guy, especially > when I take advantage of the NR. This gives me er...maybe 6db advantage or > so. Therefore I've ordered an ALS-600 to help make up the difference. The > K3's superior receiver is costing me money! > Steve Ellington > n...@carolina.rr.com > - Original Message - > From: "Robert Carroll" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > > >> Guy- >> >> That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. >> 73 >> Bob W2WG >> >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby >> >> Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from >> the >> >> RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the >> antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is >> 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the >> antenna. That's 106 over S9. >> >> Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of >> desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want >> Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I >> vote >> for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. >> >> Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off >> the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio >> distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts >> externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a >> formula >> for wierdness no matter where the station. >> >> Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did >> get >> toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's >> fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the >> front >> >> end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. >> >> Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in >> World >> >> War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the >> operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid >> for. Since one ta
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
The complaint was not "ridiculous". The original observation wasThe K3 distorts and the FT-817 doesn't under the same conditions. The poor guy was called stupid, ridiculous, ignorant and told he needs to "study" and go back to school. I think he has a good question and I have yet to see a logical answer. Claims that the K3 is "souped up" and exempt from strong signal overload is the ridiculous part! If the K3 distorts on 109DB signals and the FT-817 doesn't then so be it. It's a weakness. Just leave it at that. I'm sure the 817 has plenty more weaknesses! Let's not let this list get like the TenTec reflector. Mention something negative there and you are immediately put down or soon thrown off. I've recently subscribed to the IC-7600 Yahoo group just to watch how the new radio was doing. So far I've seen two concerns. Some have a dimmer screen saver than others and a few have had to do a master reset because of audio drop out and it's starting to look like a glitch in some 3rd party rig control program causing that. Otherwise, everyone seems satisfied. Of course, those guys know that ICOM isn't going to respond to anything that's said so maybe they just don't bother. I'm still enjoying my K3. Things have been rather lopsided lately however. I am able to copy cw through the QRN better than the other guy, especially when I take advantage of the NR. This gives me er...maybe 6db advantage or so. Therefore I've ordered an ALS-600 to help make up the difference. The K3's superior receiver is costing me money! Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Robert Carroll" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > Guy- > > That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. > 73 > Bob W2WG > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby > > Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from > the > > RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the > antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is > 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the > antenna. That's 106 over S9. > > Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of > desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want > Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I > vote > for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. > > Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off > the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio > distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts > externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a > formula > for wierdness no matter where the station. > > Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did > get > toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's > fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the > front > > end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. > > Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in > World > > War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the > operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid > for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. > > Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for > military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP > for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your > driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. > > Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, > and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power > in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. > Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first > paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. > > We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use > filters, > stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate > with > nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, > and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which > embarra
Re: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Guy- That's a nice response to a really ridiculous complaint. 73 Bob W2WG -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger, K2AV Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from the RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the antenna. That's 106 over S9. Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I vote for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a formula for wierdness no matter where the station. Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did get toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the front end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in World War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use filters, stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate with nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which embarrassed soul has to explain same to friend. Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low grade consideration. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Driveway Distortion Demolition Derby
Two 100w mobiles in the same driveway and expecting linear response from the RX in one while transmitting on the other? Talking about volts across the antenna jack (or any of the connecting cables) here. Who's the EE? S9 is 50 uv. 1 volt = 20 log 1/ .50 = 86 over S9. Maybe ten volts on the antenna. That's 106 over S9. Hearing some kind of distortion on a 100 over S9 signal is some kind of desperately grave trouble in a K3 trouble worth attention? Really want Wayne spend precious development time figuring that out? Personally I vote for 10 Hz granularity on CW using width and shift. Thought the customary form of communication from thirty feet was audio off the lips. Need 100 watts on 60m to communicate thirty feet? Audio distortion could be the driveway version of RF in the shack. 10 volts externally imposed RF wandering around on your cable of choice is a formula for wierdness no matter where the station. Someone is really lucky they didn't smoke something. And if the K3 did get toasted in this driveway radio demolition derby, that would be the K3's fault too, right? Double fault, K3 was distorting the audio while the front end was being roasted. Bad K3. Bad K3. Some of the radios bandied about earlier were specifically designed in World War II to survive conditions related to an enemy was trying to kill the operator. I'd call that a design standard specifically requested and paid for. Since one tank could be next to another, I'd call that reasonable. Such radios ARE still made and paid for. You really want to go pay for military grade radios, you can get them, at a price far exceeding the MSRP for a K3. Use a kilowatt in your driveway. No problem. Use 10 kw in your driveway like the CB powerfests. No problem. Personally I'd like to keep the features I pay for confined to peacetime, and it does not occur to me as good practice to be transmitting high power in the same driveway with another radio on-band with a tuned antenna. Others may see it differently but I consider the situation in the first paragraph as being careless with a friend's property. We have contest stations with such situations possible, but we use filters, stubs, remote receiving antennas, etc, to make it possible to operate with nowhere near a volt on-band. Sometimes use radios borrowed from friends, and guess who pays to repair a smoked front-end, and guess which embarrassed soul has to explain same to friend. Whether the audio was distorted in a smoke-it episode is really a low grade consideration. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
