Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net results (9-27-09)
The group on 14.316 before our net time is always nice and leaves the frequency by 1800Z. One of the regulars there, KA7GKN, helps keep that happening. A very courteous operator. Since 14316 is the 4th harmonic of the 3579 TV color burst frequency, I think that it makes sense to move from that spot to 14314, which appears to have fewer issues. 73, Phil, NS7P -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]on Behalf Of telegrap...@att.net Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:10 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net results (9-27-09) I didn't hear any noise on 316 today with my beam pointed NW from here in AZ. Just a group of guys who were operating there and they even mentioned that the Elecraft net would be starting shortly and that they wanted to be off the frequency by net start time. Very nice of them but then again they were Canadians and they are known for their courtesy. At least the ones i know. Larry W0OGH K3 #763 -- Original message from Jim Wiley jwi...@alaska.net: -- The QRM on 14.316 is unlikely to go away, ever. This is the 4th harmonic of 3.579 MHz, the TV color burst frequency, and a popular choice for oscillators in all sorts of consumer and office devices (not necessarily TV receivers). This has been a problem on 20 meters for at least 30 years that I know of, perhaps longer. Also, because many devices that use this frequency derive it from a square-wave oscillator (a couple of gates). the harmonics of these devices are often prodigious. Another considerations is that because some designs need to have this frequency only approximately correct, it is no surprise to find some units running up to a few hundred Hertz plus or minus from 3.579, and thus (after multiplication by harmonics) hams end up with a broad band of QRM that can be 2 or 3 kHz from 14.316, or anywhere in between. Are all these sources illegal, and thus covered by part 15 rules? Yes, they are. This is part of what manufacturers certify on those Part 15 labels you see on so many items of consumer electronics. Technically, the owner of the device is at fault, and could be made to cease and desist using the offending item. However, then we have the real world. Identifying, finding and fixing what could be several dozen such sources in your immediate vicinity can be and for practical purposes is an unsurmountable problem. The FCC literally cannot help you here, as much as they might want to. They have neither the budget or time to solve literally tens or even hundreds of millions (no exaggeration here!) of these cases. Pandora is well and truly out of the box on this one. I would respectfully suggest a permanent change of net frequency to something less likely to have this problem. - Jim, KL7CC Phil and Christina wrote: We kept our frequency on 14.314 MHz again today to try to dodge some QRM that has been persistent on 14.316 for some people. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net results (9-27-09)
I didn't hear any noise on 316 today with my beam pointed NW from here in AZ. Just a group of guys who were operating there and they even mentioned that the Elecraft net would be starting shortly and that they wanted to be off the frequency by net start time. Very nice of them but then again they were Canadians and they are known for their courtesy. At least the ones i know. Larry W0OGH K3 #763 -- Original message from Jim Wiley jwi...@alaska.net: -- The QRM on 14.316 is unlikely to go away, ever. This is the 4th harmonic of 3.579 MHz, the TV color burst frequency, and a popular choice for oscillators in all sorts of consumer and office devices (not necessarily TV receivers). This has been a problem on 20 meters for at least 30 years that I know of, perhaps longer. Also, because many devices that use this frequency derive it from a square-wave oscillator (a couple of gates). the harmonics of these devices are often prodigious. Another considerations is that because some designs need to have this frequency only approximately correct, it is no surprise to find some units running up to a few hundred Hertz plus or minus from 3.579, and thus (after multiplication by harmonics) hams end up with a broad band of QRM that can be 2 or 3 kHz from 14.316, or anywhere in between. Are all these sources illegal, and thus covered by part 15 rules? Yes, they are. This is part of what manufacturers certify on those Part 15 labels you see on so many items of consumer electronics. Technically, the owner of the device is at fault, and could be made to cease and desist using the offending item. However, then we have the real world. Identifying, finding and fixing what could be several dozen such sources in your immediate vicinity can be and for practical purposes is an unsurmountable problem. The FCC literally cannot help you here, as much as they might want to. They have neither the budget or time to solve literally tens or even hundreds of millions (no exaggeration here!) of these cases. Pandora is well and truly out of the box on this one. I would respectfully suggest a permanent change of net frequency to something less likely to have this problem. - Jim, KL7CC Phil and Christina wrote: We kept our frequency on 14.314 MHz again today to try to dodge some QRM that has been persistent on 14.316 for some people. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net results (9-27-09)
We kept our frequency on 14.314 MHz again today to try to dodge some QRM that has been persistent on 14.316 for some people. We had 14 participants including net control and ran for 14 minutes. The discussions were about difficulty getting stereo out of the headphones for one station and help with mic setup for a Heil HM10 for another. Station NameQTH Rig S/N W0OGH Larry AZ K3 763 NZ0TBillKS K3 1502 AB1KC Bruce RI K3 2674 W2RWA DickNY K3 2603 KA0NCR Arnie NE K3 185 K4SOMarkVA K3 2861 K1LCBud MA K3 788 KC4RN Gerald NJ K3 528 K0JWC Jim MN K3 3447 AI4VZ George GA K3 2412 W8YMO Harry OH K3 166 W8OVDaveTX K3 3139 AE6IC FredCA K3 2241 NS7PPhilOR K3 1826 Thanks to everybody who checked in. Have a good week. 73, Phil, NS7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net results (9-27-09)
The QRM on 14.316 is unlikely to go away, ever. This is the 4th harmonic of 3.579 MHz, the TV color burst frequency, and a popular choice for oscillators in all sorts of consumer and office devices (not necessarily TV receivers). This has been a problem on 20 meters for at least 30 years that I know of, perhaps longer. Also, because many devices that use this frequency derive it from a square-wave oscillator (a couple of gates). the harmonics of these devices are often prodigious. Another considerations is that because some designs need to have this frequency only approximately correct, it is no surprise to find some units running up to a few hundred Hertz plus or minus from 3.579, and thus (after multiplication by harmonics) hams end up with a broad band of QRM that can be 2 or 3 kHz from 14.316, or anywhere in between. Are all these sources illegal, and thus covered by part 15 rules? Yes, they are. This is part of what manufacturers certify on those Part 15 labels you see on so many items of consumer electronics. Technically, the owner of the device is at fault, and could be made to cease and desist using the offending item. However, then we have the real world. Identifying, finding and fixing what could be several dozen such sources in your immediate vicinity can be and for practical purposes is an unsurmountable problem. The FCC literally cannot help you here, as much as they might want to. They have neither the budget or time to solve literally tens or even hundreds of millions (no exaggeration here!) of these cases. Pandora is well and truly out of the box on this one. I would respectfully suggest a permanent change of net frequency to something less likely to have this problem. - Jim, KL7CC Phil and Christina wrote: We kept our frequency on 14.314 MHz again today to try to dodge some QRM that has been persistent on 14.316 for some people. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
