Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info
... and being in the service provider business, I can tell you that way too many shopping carts are set up on the assumption that the product will ship within 24 hours. The typical developer has never read a merchant credit card agreement, and doesn't know that many of them state that you do not charge the card until the merchandise is actually shipped. The developer doesn't seen a need for split transactions, since no one ever mentioned that they'd be taking orders for a very expensive product with an order backlog. I'm ashamed of what my industry has become. -- Lynn On 2/13/2019 8:52 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote: Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies (PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways. It is a very complicated chain with many rules. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info
Cliff, Thanks for your insightful post. I was in the mail-order biz in the 80s, and we had to rely on weekly mailings of flagged credit card numbers. It was a PITA to look up every number taken over the phone and most of us at this place relied on 'gut' instincts based upon the behavior of the caller. Much safer now! 73, John NI0K Cliff Frescura <mailto:c...@cfcorp.com> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:52 PM Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies (PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways. It is a very complicated chain with many rules. The shopping cart either does an immediate charge or what is called a "pre-auth" where it holds the funds but does not transfer them yet. If and when they decide to actually charge the card, then a complete/post-auth is issued. The catch is that if a pre-auth is issued it will reverse automatically if no complete/post-auth is issued, usually within 24 hours. So the only practical choice is to charge the card. The alternative is for the shopping cart to get a card token from the gateway that it can store and retrieve for later payment. It is verboten to store clear text card numbers, in any media: computer, post it note, etc. When the order is shipped, operations tells the shopping cart software to go ahead and charge against the card token. In this scenario it would be best practice to the shopping cart software to also delete the token and associated card data from the payment gateway, unless the cardholder explicitly opted in to save card info. This is not an Elecraft only issue. Payments are very complicated and challenging for many merchants. Fundamental reasons are for risk reduction (for all stakeholders) and security. 73, Cliff K3LL -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lou Voerman W2ROW Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was told. Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently). They said that they are testing a new application which will allow deferring payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a refund offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs. I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to have told in advance. Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before shipment was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge. Thanks, Lou -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to c...@cfcorp.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jasimm...@pinewooddata.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info
Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies (PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways. It is a very complicated chain with many rules. The shopping cart either does an immediate charge or what is called a "pre-auth" where it holds the funds but does not transfer them yet. If and when they decide to actually charge the card, then a complete/post-auth is issued. The catch is that if a pre-auth is issued it will reverse automatically if no complete/post-auth is issued, usually within 24 hours. So the only practical choice is to charge the card. The alternative is for the shopping cart to get a card token from the gateway that it can store and retrieve for later payment. It is verboten to store clear text card numbers, in any media: computer, post it note, etc. When the order is shipped, operations tells the shopping cart software to go ahead and charge against the card token. In this scenario it would be best practice to the shopping cart software to also delete the token and associated card data from the payment gateway, unless the cardholder explicitly opted in to save card info. This is not an Elecraft only issue. Payments are very complicated and challenging for many merchants. Fundamental reasons are for risk reduction (for all stakeholders) and security. 73, Cliff K3LL -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lou Voerman W2ROW Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was told. Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently). They said that they are testing a new application which will allow deferring payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a refund offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs. I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to have told in advance. Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before shipment was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge. Thanks, Lou -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to c...@cfcorp.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info
I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was told. Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently). They said that they are testing a new application which will allow deferring payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a refund offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs. I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to have told in advance. Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before shipment was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge. Thanks, Lou -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
