Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
I believe there was concern about charging a Lithium based battery inside the radio. Would you want to bet your KX2's life on the risk of a battery fire? I know the arguments about cellphones and laptops, but some of those were catching fire at the time the KX2 was designed and the decision was made. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2019 2:42 PM, Ignacy Misztal wrote: It will not charge now. It would be GREATLY convenient if it could. In simplest case, allow charging from DC input if input voltage is <=12.6V and charge current is < 2A. Not sure what is the reason not to allow it. Perhaps concerns about counterfeit batteries without a chip, and possibility of fire. I have external batteries but the beauty of KX2 is that the battery is inside. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
I find that I rarely use the internal KX2 battery unless I know I only have a short time to operate. For longer outings I use a larger external pack or I bring along my spare internal size packs but just plug them into the external connector. Even at 12W the KX-2 sips power. Great piece of kit. Tim N9PUZ On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 1:47 PM Brian Hunt wrote: > I got 25 or so removal/installs out of the KX2 battery before one of the > power leads broke off where it entered the battery pack. I figured it was a > manufacturing defect where the wire fatigued without support of the > insulation. > > I replaced it with a 12v/5v 6 Ah lithium pack for about half of the cost > of the internal pack. It gives me 4-6 hours of use at 10 watts. Not as > convenient as the internal pack but it works for how I use my KX2. > > 73, > Brian, K0DTJ > > "Unless handled with a heavy hand, the bottom of the KX2 will withstand > many, many removals and installs." > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to tim.n9...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
I got 25 or so removal/installs out of the KX2 battery before one of the power leads broke off where it entered the battery pack. I figured it was a manufacturing defect where the wire fatigued without support of the insulation. I replaced it with a 12v/5v 6 Ah lithium pack for about half of the cost of the internal pack. It gives me 4-6 hours of use at 10 watts. Not as convenient as the internal pack but it works for how I use my KX2. 73, Brian, K0DTJ "Unless handled with a heavy hand, the bottom of the KX2 will withstand many, many removals and installs." > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
It will not charge now. It would be GREATLY convenient if it could. In simplest case, allow charging from DC input if input voltage is <=12.6V and charge current is < 2A. Not sure what is the reason not to allow it. Perhaps concerns about counterfeit batteries without a chip, and possibility of fire. I have external batteries but the beauty of KX2 is that the battery is inside. Ignacy, NO9E On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 2:09 PM Don Wilhelm wrote: > The KX2 battery will NOT charge from the external power jack - the > lithium battery must be removed for charging. Unless handled with a > heavy hand, the bottom of the KX2 will withstand many, many removals and > installs. > If you are concerned about removing the bottom of the KX2, you can > always use the Lithium battery externally, just plug it into the power > jack - no internal battery required. > > The KX3 internal batteries can be charged from the power jack if you > have the KXBC3 option installed. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/9/2019 1:58 PM, Ignacy Misztal wrote: > > Thank you for the suggestion. Here is something similar: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V3L4YF3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8=1 > > > > Wonder whether they are RF quiet? > > > > My thinking with KX2 that I take it with me,without anything external, > use > > portable, and then at home charge via USB overnight without pulling the > > internal battery. Just like the cell phone. > > > > Ignacy, NO9E > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
Having had an external LiPoly R/C battery burst into flames while plugged into my KX1, I don't think I'd ever put Lithium inside my radio. I know there are a bunch of lithium chemistries, some less volatile than others, but watching the little package "sparken und fizzen" on our gravel driveway convinced me I'd done the right thing with keeping it external. YMMV. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/9/2019 11:09 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: If you are concerned about removing the bottom of the KX2, you can always use the Lithium battery externally, just plug it into the power jack - no internal battery required. The KX3 internal batteries can be charged from the power jack if you have the KXBC3 option installed. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
The KX2 battery will NOT charge from the external power jack - the lithium battery must be removed for charging. Unless handled with a heavy hand, the bottom of the KX2 will withstand many, many removals and installs. If you are concerned about removing the bottom of the KX2, you can always use the Lithium battery externally, just plug it into the power jack - no internal battery required. The KX3 internal batteries can be charged from the power jack if you have the KXBC3 option installed. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2019 1:58 PM, Ignacy Misztal wrote: Thank you for the suggestion. Here is something similar: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V3L4YF3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8=1 Wonder whether they are RF quiet? My thinking with KX2 that I take it with me,without anything external, use portable, and then at home charge via USB overnight without pulling the internal battery. Just like the cell phone. Ignacy, NO9E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
Thank you for the suggestion. Here is something similar: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V3L4YF3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8=1 Wonder whether they are RF quiet? My thinking with KX2 that I take it with me,without anything external, use portable, and then at home charge via USB overnight without pulling the internal battery. Just like the cell phone. Ignacy, NO9E On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gwen Patton wrote: > Use a USB-C PD power bank, and a USB-C power sink, and you can power the > KX2 handily. I can power my KX3 that way, and most of my other QRP rigs as > well. The sink I use is the PD Buddy Sink found on Tindie. It handshakes > with the PD power bank and provides 12v at 2-3A (depending on the bank). I > have a RAVPower bank with roughly 27Ah (probably rated at 5v, but that's > ok) that works fine with this. It'll also take input power from a mains > power supply used to fast-charge such a bank, or that might be used to > power a Chromebook or other laptop. That gives me a VERY small and packable > mains and mains-free power solution for all of my radios. I could even set > it for 9v for the radios that use THAT. > > There are other brands of power sinks out there. I ordered two of these: > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T2858G6/ but they haven't arrived > yet, so I haven't tested them. The Buddy Sink is programmed by connecting > it to a computer via USB-C, then accessed with a terminal program. The ones > I haven't received yet have a preset group of output power profiles you can > toggle through by pressing a button on the board. There are others as well, > but I haven't tried any others yet either. > > This isn't a massively unique approach. I'm sure there are other, cheaper, > and probably more specific power solutions, but this has the benefit of > being a multi-tasker. With it, I can charge my Chromebook, my phone, my > external speaker, AND run my radios. I can charge the bank with a power > supply that weighs ounces and fits in the palm of my hand rather than a > brick the size and weight of, well, a BRICK. I even found 3d printable > cases for the PD Buddy Sink that will accomodate either a direct wire > output or a PowerPole connector, so I can attach interchangeable power > cables. > > 73, > Gwen, NG3P > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 12:33 PM Ignacy wrote: > >> This is a QRP radio that likes traveling. Mine has even been on a small >> boat >> ride in Adriatic sea... Or working DX SSB in a contest big time (with 9A1A >> antennas). >> >> If only a USB charge can be added. I am afraid that the radio will survive >> only so many case openings... >> >> Ignacy, NO9E >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com >> > > > -- > > -+-+-+-+- > Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time > http://quarktime.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
Use a USB-C PD power bank, and a USB-C power sink, and you can power the KX2 handily. I can power my KX3 that way, and most of my other QRP rigs as well. The sink I use is the PD Buddy Sink found on Tindie. It handshakes with the PD power bank and provides 12v at 2-3A (depending on the bank). I have a RAVPower bank with roughly 27Ah (probably rated at 5v, but that's ok) that works fine with this. It'll also take input power from a mains power supply used to fast-charge such a bank, or that might be used to power a Chromebook or other laptop. That gives me a VERY small and packable mains and mains-free power solution for all of my radios. I could even set it for 9v for the radios that use THAT. There are other brands of power sinks out there. I ordered two of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T2858G6/ but they haven't arrived yet, so I haven't tested them. The Buddy Sink is programmed by connecting it to a computer via USB-C, then accessed with a terminal program. The ones I haven't received yet have a preset group of output power profiles you can toggle through by pressing a button on the board. There are others as well, but I haven't tried any others yet either. This isn't a massively unique approach. I'm sure there are other, cheaper, and probably more specific power solutions, but this has the benefit of being a multi-tasker. With it, I can charge my Chromebook, my phone, my external speaker, AND run my radios. I can charge the bank with a power supply that weighs ounces and fits in the palm of my hand rather than a brick the size and weight of, well, a BRICK. I even found 3d printable cases for the PD Buddy Sink that will accomodate either a direct wire output or a PowerPole connector, so I can attach interchangeable power cables. 73, Gwen, NG3P On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 12:33 PM Ignacy wrote: > This is a QRP radio that likes traveling. Mine has even been on a small > boat > ride in Adriatic sea... Or working DX SSB in a contest big time (with 9A1A > antennas). > > If only a USB charge can be added. I am afraid that the radio will survive > only so many case openings... > > Ignacy, NO9E > > > > -- > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com > -- -+-+-+-+- Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time http://quarktime.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
This is a QRP radio that likes traveling. Mine has even been on a small boat ride in Adriatic sea... Or working DX SSB in a contest big time (with 9A1A antennas). If only a USB charge can be added. I am afraid that the radio will survive only so many case openings... Ignacy, NO9E -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
Hi Wayne, I for one am impressed and LOVE my KX2, and KX3. When I was a kid I would take my Globe Patrol on a few family road trips. The Globe Patrol was a regen receiver that I built from a kit. The functionality was not dense at all, and I had to take a few more accessories to use it. At that time I loved thrown up a wire and listening to SW radio stations. My KX2 fits in a little zippered case smaller than the Globe Patrol, and contains everything I need to both transmit and receive. The receiver quality is out of this world! Thanks for your genius, and all the others at Elecraft who made a little boys dream come true! 73 Len KA7FTP -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, December 06, 2019 4:58 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Cc: k...@groups.io Subject: [Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2 A morning break in the rain today in the Bay Area allowed me to sneak out for some field operation with the KX2. While using every weapon in the KX2's arsenal, I thought about how to best convey just how feature-dense this radio is. To appreciate it, you really need to hold the rig in your hand and try it out. Since that's not always an option for a potential user, the next best thing might be to create an engineering metric. Granted, "features per cubic inch" (feature density) isn't exactly science, but it is useful for comparing portable transceivers, where both size and versatility really matter. Here's one possible formula: F_in = ( bands + modes + internal_options + other_significant_features ) / in^3 Fuzzy? Well...yeah. Nonetheless, here's what happens if we apply this to our legacy 4-band K1 transceiver and the KX2. * K1: bands: 4 (owner's choice of HF bands) modes: 1 (CW) options: 3 (battery, ATU, noise blanker) other: 3 (keyer, CW messages, variable-BW xtal filter) F = ( 4 + 1 + 3 + 3 ) / 64 in^3 = 0.17 features per cubic inch KX2: bands: 9 (80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 m) modes: 5 (CW, SSB, AM, FM, DATA) options: 5 (mic, battery, ATU, paddle, real-time clock, 100 W amp) other: 35 (keyer, CW messages, int. mic, DVR, speech compression, VOX, IF DSP (SDR), switchable preamp, switchable attenuator, audio peaking filter (APF, for CW), RTTY decode/encode, PSK31 decode/encode, CW/data auto-tune, fully adjustable AGC slope/threshold/decay, RF gain & AF limiter, dual watch, variable-passband filters, passband shift, noise blanking, noise reduction, audio effects, RX/TX EQ, dual VFOs, split, wide-range RIT/XIT, cross-mode (SSB/CW), CW/data logging, 4 user-programmable functions, Amp-hour tracking, scanning, freq. memories, direct frequency entry, full remote control interface, freq. up/down buttons (on mic), measurement of PWR/SWR/ALC/CMP/supply voltage/supply current, adjustable carrier-operated relay) F = ( 9 + 5 + 5 + 36 ) / 26 = 2.1 features per cubic inch * By this metric, the KX2 packs about 12 times as much "punch" as a K1. (As a principal designer of both radios, I have to admit this is a bit alarming. In 2001 we felt the K1 was pretty much state of the art for small CW rigs.) Of course, holding the KX2 in your hand, then actually putting it on the air, provides a much more satisfying comparison. Calculation of feature density of the KX3 is left as an exercise for the reader :) 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@ka7ftp.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Feature density of portable transceivers: K1 vs. KX2
A morning break in the rain today in the Bay Area allowed me to sneak out for some field operation with the KX2. While using every weapon in the KX2's arsenal, I thought about how to best convey just how feature-dense this radio is. To appreciate it, you really need to hold the rig in your hand and try it out. Since that's not always an option for a potential user, the next best thing might be to create an engineering metric. Granted, "features per cubic inch" (feature density) isn't exactly science, but it is useful for comparing portable transceivers, where both size and versatility really matter. Here's one possible formula: F_in = ( bands + modes + internal_options + other_significant_features ) / in^3 Fuzzy? Well...yeah. Nonetheless, here's what happens if we apply this to our legacy 4-band K1 transceiver and the KX2. * K1: bands: 4 (owner's choice of HF bands) modes: 1 (CW) options: 3 (battery, ATU, noise blanker) other: 3 (keyer, CW messages, variable-BW xtal filter) F = ( 4 + 1 + 3 + 3 ) / 64 in^3 = 0.17 features per cubic inch KX2: bands: 9 (80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 m) modes: 5 (CW, SSB, AM, FM, DATA) options: 5 (mic, battery, ATU, paddle, real-time clock, 100 W amp) other: 35 (keyer, CW messages, int. mic, DVR, speech compression, VOX, IF DSP (SDR), switchable preamp, switchable attenuator, audio peaking filter (APF, for CW), RTTY decode/encode, PSK31 decode/encode, CW/data auto-tune, fully adjustable AGC slope/threshold/decay, RF gain & AF limiter, dual watch, variable-passband filters, passband shift, noise blanking, noise reduction, audio effects, RX/TX EQ, dual VFOs, split, wide-range RIT/XIT, cross-mode (SSB/CW), CW/data logging, 4 user-programmable functions, Amp-hour tracking, scanning, freq. memories, direct frequency entry, full remote control interface, freq. up/down buttons (on mic), measurement of PWR/SWR/ALC/CMP/supply voltage/supply current, adjustable carrier-operated relay) F = ( 9 + 5 + 5 + 36 ) / 26 = 2.1 features per cubic inch * By this metric, the KX2 packs about 12 times as much "punch" as a K1. (As a principal designer of both radios, I have to admit this is a bit alarming. In 2001 we felt the K1 was pretty much state of the art for small CW rigs.) Of course, holding the KX2 in your hand, then actually putting it on the air, provides a much more satisfying comparison. Calculation of feature density of the KX3 is left as an exercise for the reader :) 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
