Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
On 6/29/2022 2:35 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: When you speak, the CMP shows you whether the mic gain is sufficient to fully hit the desired level. Wayne, I think we may be in the territory of the difference between a circuit designer and someone who understands how to use audio processing. What the CMP display SHOULD read is the amount of gain reduction taking place. From your explanation, it isn't clear whether that's true or not. As a rule of thumb, 10-12 dB is a good place to be without intelligibility going south. We all look forward to being able to safely return to Visalia. I've reserved a room for next year. No surprise, reports are that Dayton/Xenia was a bit of a super-spreader. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
On 6/29/2022 9:39 AM, Ed Cole wrote: > Note on SSB compression, I've run at 20 with no complaints of distortion > or splatter. Dial readout is the WRONG way to set compression -- it's meaningless. The RIGHT way is to adjust COMP for a METER reading of 10 dB on voice peaks. 73, Jim K9YC OK tested with COMP meter and 25 gives 10-dB. 20 setting produced about 2-dB. Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
Hi Jim, There's always room for improvement, and thanks for your observations. In general I defer to your audio expertise. Perhaps, as in the past, you and I can debate the finer points over a bottle of red at Visalia. Meanwhile, here's how it currently works: - The CMP knob establishes an upper bound on the compression algorithm (0-30 dB). - When you speak, the CMP shows you whether the mic gain is sufficient to fully hit the desired level. - Typically this happens when ALC is in the vicinity of 4 or 5 bars. This is consistent with all of our transceivers, and as far as I know it has proven effective and easy to use. Just crank CMP to the desired level and shoot the fish in the barrel. 73, Wayne N6KR > On Jun 29, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > On 6/29/2022 9:39 AM, Ed Cole wrote: >> Note on SSB compression, I've run at 20 with no complaints of distortion or >> splatter. > > Dial readout is the WRONG way to set compression -- it's meaningless. The > RIGHT way is to adjust COMP for a METER reading of 10 dB on voice peaks. > > 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
On 6/29/2022 9:39 AM, Ed Cole wrote: Note on SSB compression, I've run at 20 with no complaints of distortion or splatter. Dial readout is the WRONG way to set compression -- it's meaningless. The RIGHT way is to adjust COMP for a METER reading of 10 dB on voice peaks. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
Burdick has too much on his mind to bother with dates, but actually it was late 2007 ... From my logbook of that year: Sun, Oct. 14: Email from Elecraft saying they would be shipping this week Thu, Oct. 18: Email from Elecraft saying they would be shipping today Fri, Oct. 19: Serial Number 21 delivered by UPS at 9 a.m. CDT Sat, Oct. 20: Assembly of kit began at 10:15 a.m. and was completed on Sunday at 10:30 a.m. with time-outs for meals, sleep, participation in an emergency pandemic communications exercise, and continuous annotations and corrections to the assembly manual as I encountered them and as NØSS recorded them at the request of Elecraft. Assembly went smoothly, filter calibration (manually) went well, and first contact was made at 5:02 p.m. that afternoon on the ECN (Elecraft 20 meter Net). Rare DX it was ... across town to NØSS who was NCS. Fully updated, S.N. 21 has worked every Field Day since, demonstrated ham radio at numerous Boy Scout affairs, handled a bunch of special events, an ARRL 100th anniversary, a Missouri bicentennial, and 15 Halloweens from Frankenstein. 73, Kent K9ZTV On 6/29/2022 11:39 AM, Ed Cole wrote: I bought my K3/10 in 2010 (SN 4340). Didn't realize that was only two years after launch of the radio "We started selling the K3 in early 2008-per Wayne". __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I used my K3/100 in the 2007 CQWW SSB contest from J3A. reply to: k...@arrl.net On Wed, Jun 29, 2022, 12:40 Ed Cole wrote: > I bought my K3/10 in 2010 (SN 4340). Didn't realize that was only two > years after launch of the radio "We started selling the K3 in early > 2008-per Wayne". > > radio has performed well over the last 12 years. Only one failure of > the KIO3A board which I opted to have Elecraft repair (two months in > 2020; height of Covis issues). I did upgrade my two synth boards and > upgraded the general band filter to add 630m use. > > Recently, in light of comments about the KIO3 board, I ordered a KIO3B > as backup spare (just in case as computer I/F is critical for my use of > the K3 on digital modes - eme). > > Since I run in transverter mode most of the time, little actual usage of > the 10w modules have transpired. Now running 6m-eme at 3w still ought > to be gentle on the transistors (I drive a MRF-1K50H LDMOS final amp). > > Surface-mount repair tasks one's abilities in eyesight and finger > control (I did s-m repair for over twenty years, professionally and > getting difficult as I age). So I understand the comments about > self-repair of much of today's electronics. > > When I was working in a commercial shop we had a rule about deciding > repair or replace: if repair costs equal or exceeded 50% of replacement > we would recommend replacement. Then there were always the customer > with 1950's stuff wanting repair with no hope of finding replacement > parts (eg vibrator PS). > > Note on SSB compression, I've run at 20 with no complaints of distortion > or splatter. I do not do "combat contesting" or "aggressive DX", so > that seems a good setting. Audio drive also at 20 using Heil mic. > > Spending money on ham radio at advanced age is a difficult choice. But > I decided to renovate my 12x38 foot storage building into a ham > shack/workshop this summer (looking like $15K with most work done by > contractor). But moving out of 11x12 spare bedroom will be nice > (emptying the storage bldg is not). > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k1ep.l...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I bought my K3/10 in 2010 (SN 4340). Didn't realize that was only two years after launch of the radio "We started selling the K3 in early 2008-per Wayne". radio has performed well over the last 12 years. Only one failure of the KIO3A board which I opted to have Elecraft repair (two months in 2020; height of Covis issues). I did upgrade my two synth boards and upgraded the general band filter to add 630m use. Recently, in light of comments about the KIO3 board, I ordered a KIO3B as backup spare (just in case as computer I/F is critical for my use of the K3 on digital modes - eme). Since I run in transverter mode most of the time, little actual usage of the 10w modules have transpired. Now running 6m-eme at 3w still ought to be gentle on the transistors (I drive a MRF-1K50H LDMOS final amp). Surface-mount repair tasks one's abilities in eyesight and finger control (I did s-m repair for over twenty years, professionally and getting difficult as I age). So I understand the comments about self-repair of much of today's electronics. When I was working in a commercial shop we had a rule about deciding repair or replace: if repair costs equal or exceeded 50% of replacement we would recommend replacement. Then there were always the customer with 1950's stuff wanting repair with no hope of finding replacement parts (eg vibrator PS). Note on SSB compression, I've run at 20 with no complaints of distortion or splatter. I do not do "combat contesting" or "aggressive DX", so that seems a good setting. Audio drive also at 20 using Heil mic. Spending money on ham radio at advanced age is a difficult choice. But I decided to renovate my 12x38 foot storage building into a ham shack/workshop this summer (looking like $15K with most work done by contractor). But moving out of 11x12 spare bedroom will be nice (emptying the storage bldg is not). 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I believe the K3 was manufactured from 2007 to 2015. In 2015 it was replaced by the K3S. If you purchased a K3, you had many years where you could add modules, upgrade the technology and have it serviced if/when needed. This was a great deal however if you purchased a K3S you may have only had a year or so of use before the transceiver became discontinued and the modules became unavailable. John KK9A Rick Tavan N6XI wrote: What do you mean, David? The K3 had a nearly 15 year run as Elecraft's flagship transceiver and is still being serviced within the limits of parts availability. K3S was a mid-life update, not a new design. It had a few revised boards and they were available to retrofit to the earlier K3 units. Other updated boards came along prior to K3S and were also retrofittable. In my 60+ years of ham radio, the K3 stands out as the longest-living, most modular, most upgradeable radio of all, by a wide margin. I have no reason to expect anything less of K4. 73, /Rick N6XI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
Actually no, the K3 isn't still being serviced within the limits of parts availability, and hasn't for some time. When my K3IO board got zapped I wrote Elecraft and asked them to repair it. The repair tech simply and flippantly refused to so. I later went through the parts list from the schematic and all the key parts were available in stock from Digi-Key. Luckily Don had a spare set of boards from someone who had swapped them out for the USB version. In any case, age has nothing to do with it. The original claim was that the modular nature of the K3 would allow it to have an almost unlimited lifetime because redesigns would handle both part obsolescence and technological improvements. Supply chain issues didn't cause that to go by the wayside ... limited resources at Elecraft did. By all accounts the K4 is a great rig, but why should its modularity offer any extended life compared to other brands than the K3 did? It's a flawed premise and a flawed commitment if the ability to follow through isn't there. I don't mean to keep flogging this, but people like you keep dredging it up and trying to convince me I'm wrong. Dave AB7E On 6/28/2022 7:17 AM, Rick Tavan wrote: What do you mean, David? The K3 had a nearly 15 year run as Elecraft's flagship transceiver and is still being serviced within the limits of parts availability. K3S was a mid-life update, not a new design. It had a few revised boards and they were available to retrofit to the earlier K3 units. Other updated boards came along prior to K3S and were also retrofittable. In my 60+ years of ham radio, the K3 stands out as the longest-living, most modular, most upgradeable radio of all, by a wide margin. I have no reason to expect anything less of K4. 73, /Rick N6XI On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 8:08 PM David Gilbert wrote: I remember that exact same statement being made about the K3 and K3s (discontinued after 6 years). Other than the new synths, it wasn't honored for the K3 series so I see no reason to treat that as part of the value proposition for the K4. On 6/27/2022 5:32 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules in the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, ADC boards, and DAC board. > > > > Wayne > N6KR > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rta...@gmail.com -- -- Rick Tavan Truckee and Saratoga, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
What do you mean, David? The K3 had a nearly 15 year run as Elecraft's flagship transceiver and is still being serviced within the limits of parts availability. K3S was a mid-life update, not a new design. It had a few revised boards and they were available to retrofit to the earlier K3 units. Other updated boards came along prior to K3S and were also retrofittable. In my 60+ years of ham radio, the K3 stands out as the longest-living, most modular, most upgradeable radio of all, by a wide margin. I have no reason to expect anything less of K4. 73, /Rick N6XI On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 8:08 PM David Gilbert wrote: > > > I remember that exact same statement being made about the K3 and K3s > (discontinued after 6 years). Other than the new synths, it wasn't > honored for the K3 series so I see no reason to treat that as part of > the value proposition for the K4. > > > On 6/27/2022 5:32 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > > > - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules > in the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, > ADC boards, and DAC board. > > > > > > > > Wayne > > N6KR > > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rta...@gmail.com -- -- Rick Tavan Truckee and Saratoga, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
Wayne, I want to clarify what I was referring to in Wilson's email. I thought that his point about technology getting so far beyond the abilities and knowledge of most amateurs was on target, and the likelihood of being able to repair one's own gear diminishes with time. With the cost of labor, it does happen that sometimes one is better off replacing a broken unit than having it repaired, and a buyer ought to be prepared to do that at some point. I have had experience with another brand that lasted a reasonable amount of time before something went wrong with the CW tone. The manufacturer told me to send it to an independent repair place he recommended. After paying shipping both ways plus the repair, the rig lasted a very short time before the tone went bad again. Shipping it, due to weight, a second time would make the repair cost unreasonable. Fortunately, I was prepared to buy another rig then. So the broken one sat on a shelf for several years, since I couldn't use it for "real radio", until I happened across a financially limited disabled veteran whose rig had just broken. As he only used phone, I gave him the rig with the caveat never to use it on CW. It was my second poor repair experience with that brand, so I understand the frustration it can cause. That said, my experience with Elecraft regarding repair is rather limited. My 13 year old K3 (kit) just keeps on going. A second hand K2 I picked up several years ago just made it through another outdoor Field Day here in Texas where it worked in temperatures that reached 101°F in the shade. When I acquired it there was one small problem, but I got Don Wilhelm's help for that. I had a sensor for a W2 wattmeter fail after several years. On inquiry I was told by someone at Elecraft it would be less expensive to buy a new one than repair it, and I did. I am well-satisfied with my Elecraft gear, sympathetic to the problems you face with the current supply, price, and hiring situations, and plan to stick with and recommend Elecraft gear. But I think that on the whole, Wilson made some realistic observations about technology in general, and it was those I thought made sense. But I remain an Elecraft fan and user, and consider you and Eric the "good guys" in the business. A few score years ago, I bought my first automobile with a loan. After I paid it off, I continued making those payments to myself. That approach allowed me to pay cash for every vehicle since. Likewise, I keep a "radio fund" with regular small savings so I'm prepared in case a repair just isn't possible or reasonable. Just seems practical to me. But these days that savings fund has become a general replacement fund because so many appliances and gadgets are beyond my ability or some manufacturer's willingness to repair. Instead of "buyer beware" it's now buyer be prepared. That's the lesson I took from Wilson's email. 73, Dave, W8OV On Monday, June 27, 2022 19:32:47 (-05:00), Wayne Burdick wrote: > A few counterexamples: > > - We started selling the K2 in 1999, nearly 23 years ago. We're still selling > them. 99% of the parts are still available. > > - We started selling the K3 in early 2008, nearly 15 years ago. We still > service them (in fact repair times have gone down recently), and we're even > building new modules in some cases to extend their life and enhance > performance. This process was delayed by the supply chain and pandemic but > we're getting it back on track. > > - If you want to repair your own Elecraft product or ask a technical > question, you can email Eric and me personally. Many have, and I'm sure > they'll continue to do so. Or you can email support. > > - If you email me in a language other than English, I'll translate it with > Google both ways. I've done this in Spanish, French, and Japanese. > > - Most of the parts for our products are available from industry suppliers > like Digikey if not directly from us. This has been true historically, and > assuming the supply chain improves, it will continue to be true. > > - I have personally supplied parts or modules to at least a dozen of our > customers from my own lab stock over the years, typically at zero cost, zero > shipping, just to help out when the parts were not available elsewhere. > > - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules in > the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, ADC > boards, and DAC board. This seems preferable to, let's say, having your > entire radio be dependent on the availability of a particular laptop computer > that one designed into it. > > > > ...buy an FT-450 and dump it > > > Sure. YMMV. > > Wayne > N6KR > > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by:
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I remember that exact same statement being made about the K3 and K3s (discontinued after 6 years). Other than the new synths, it wasn't honored for the K3 series so I see no reason to treat that as part of the value proposition for the K4. On 6/27/2022 5:32 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules in the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, ADC boards, and DAC board. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
Thanks for all helpful info. My K3 is now 10 years old and chugging along just fine. I changed out to the newer VFO boards and the newer I/O board. What I am watching for is a new release of the P3SVGA which I signed up for at Hamvention. I am still so impressed with the K3 receiver that I never even think about a K4. Good wishes! On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 20:06 Hank via Elecraft wrote: > I can attest to at least one part I received as a surprise from Elecraft. > I bought a K3S kit in 2018. I bought a internal 2m transverter 2nd that > did not work well. I sent the whole thing in for a checkup (K3s et al) and > had the 2 meter unit repaired and some modules installed including the > higher resolution TXCO. The TXCO failed and they sent me a new one in 2020. > It went bad. In 2021 when things really went to crap with the supply chain > they sent me an original TXCO for free from someone’s secret stash - just > from my comments here on the reflector. > > I am very hopeful they will keep the K3 line serviced for quite some time > if the rest of the world can get their act together. > > When they say K-Line I think of the B-Line twins which are still operating > in my shack. Fingers crossed! > > Hank > K4HYJ > > > On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > > > A few counterexamples: > > > > - We started selling the K2 in 1999, nearly 23 years ago. We're still > selling them. 99% of the parts are still available. > > > > - We started selling the K3 in early 2008, nearly 15 years ago. We still > service them (in fact repair times have gone down recently), and we're even > building new modules in some cases to extend their life and enhance > performance. This process was delayed by the supply chain and pandemic but > we're getting it back on track. > > > > - If you want to repair your own Elecraft product or ask a technical > question, you can email Eric and me personally. Many have, and I'm sure > they'll continue to do so. Or you can email support. > > > > - If you email me in a language other than English, I'll translate it > with Google both ways. I've done this in Spanish, French, and Japanese. > > > > - Most of the parts for our products are available from industry > suppliers like Digikey if not directly from us. This has been true > historically, and assuming the supply chain improves, it will continue to > be true. > > > > - I have personally supplied parts or modules to at least a dozen of our > customers from my own lab stock over the years, typically at zero cost, > zero shipping, just to help out when the parts were not available elsewhere. > > > > - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules > in the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, > ADC boards, and DAC board. This seems preferable to, let's say, having your > entire radio be dependent on the availability of a particular laptop > computer that one designed into it. > > > > > >> ...buy an FT-450 and dump it > > > > > > Sure. YMMV. > > > > Wayne > > N6KR > > > > > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: "Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I can attest to at least one part I received as a surprise from Elecraft. I bought a K3S kit in 2018. I bought a internal 2m transverter 2nd that did not work well. I sent the whole thing in for a checkup (K3s et al) and had the 2 meter unit repaired and some modules installed including the higher resolution TXCO. The TXCO failed and they sent me a new one in 2020. It went bad. In 2021 when things really went to crap with the supply chain they sent me an original TXCO for free from someone’s secret stash - just from my comments here on the reflector. I am very hopeful they will keep the K3 line serviced for quite some time if the rest of the world can get their act together. When they say K-Line I think of the B-Line twins which are still operating in my shack. Fingers crossed! Hank K4HYJ > On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > A few counterexamples: > > - We started selling the K2 in 1999, nearly 23 years ago. We're still selling > them. 99% of the parts are still available. > > - We started selling the K3 in early 2008, nearly 15 years ago. We still > service them (in fact repair times have gone down recently), and we're even > building new modules in some cases to extend their life and enhance > performance. This process was delayed by the supply chain and pandemic but > we're getting it back on track. > > - If you want to repair your own Elecraft product or ask a technical > question, you can email Eric and me personally. Many have, and I'm sure > they'll continue to do so. Or you can email support. > > - If you email me in a language other than English, I'll translate it with > Google both ways. I've done this in Spanish, French, and Japanese. > > - Most of the parts for our products are available from industry suppliers > like Digikey if not directly from us. This has been true historically, and > assuming the supply chain improves, it will continue to be true. > > - I have personally supplied parts or modules to at least a dozen of our > customers from my own lab stock over the years, typically at zero cost, zero > shipping, just to help out when the parts were not available elsewhere. > > - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules in > the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, ADC > boards, and DAC board. This seems preferable to, let's say, having your > entire radio be dependent on the availability of a particular laptop computer > that one designed into it. > > >> ...buy an FT-450 and dump it > > > Sure. YMMV. > > Wayne > N6KR > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
A few counterexamples: - We started selling the K2 in 1999, nearly 23 years ago. We're still selling them. 99% of the parts are still available. - We started selling the K3 in early 2008, nearly 15 years ago. We still service them (in fact repair times have gone down recently), and we're even building new modules in some cases to extend their life and enhance performance. This process was delayed by the supply chain and pandemic but we're getting it back on track. - If you want to repair your own Elecraft product or ask a technical question, you can email Eric and me personally. Many have, and I'm sure they'll continue to do so. Or you can email support. - If you email me in a language other than English, I'll translate it with Google both ways. I've done this in Spanish, French, and Japanese. - Most of the parts for our products are available from industry suppliers like Digikey if not directly from us. This has been true historically, and assuming the supply chain improves, it will continue to be true. - I have personally supplied parts or modules to at least a dozen of our customers from my own lab stock over the years, typically at zero cost, zero shipping, just to help out when the parts were not available elsewhere. - The K4 is designed in highly modular fashion so we can replace modules in the future as technology changes, including the main processor board, ADC boards, and DAC board. This seems preferable to, let's say, having your entire radio be dependent on the availability of a particular laptop computer that one designed into it. > ...buy an FT-450 and dump it Sure. YMMV. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
NOT a flame, Wilson. Parts of this should be printed and handed out to every purchaser of a transceiver, TV, or any modern appliance. Back "in the day" I built some of my radio gear. But repair my own TV now, not a chance. I've become, -- an old appliance operator. 73, -- Dave W8OV On Monday, June 27, 2022 18:43:23 (-05:00), Wilson Lamb via Elecraft wrote: > > I wish this board could stay technical. > Maybe we should have another one for service issues and rants? > Ham qualifications were mentioned in the signal quality discussion. > Someone should man up and state the obvious: > > Radios have become appliances that only a tiny minority could work on in any competent way and even then they would need pretty spiffy test equipment. I am a lifelong hacker and 65 year call holder, with radar, BC, and radio experience of all sorts, but I have near zero interest in repairing my old K3. I might look for a loose connection, but I've never opened either of my two, bought used. > > The "qualifications" we claim to have are a farce. People with NO IDEA about anything technical can memorize enough answers to get by the test. No offense, but this covers about 90% of new licensees. But maybe it doesn't matter. We need the numbers for political reasons and those who know enough, or want to learn enough, to do something technical can ignore the others. Of course we can choose to help some of the others in the rare instance when they actually want to learn something. Mostly they want someone to set up their appliance so they can pretend to be hams and press the button. Or go over and put up an antenna or two for them. > > I feel for the "company" but, for whatever reason, they have abandoned the owners of very expensive equipment they indicated they would maintain and support. They are no more, or less, culpable than the big guys. And "we" share the blame. Anyone who expects a piece of advanced techie equipment, with 100 or so man-years of programming and a handfull of specialized ICs in it to have a long (decade+) commercial life is a dreamer. I just threw away an expensive wall oven because the SECOND $350 control board failed and I wasn't about to buy a third one! If you think Elecraft is bad, just try dealing with Whirlpool! I bought a GE (control board $75) with half the bells and whistles and it cooks fine. If I could, I'd buy one with a knob! Front load washers are thrown away regularly because of door gasket leaks. FYI, Speed Queen makes a fine top loader with mechanical timer and NO SCREEN or flashing numbers! > > What can we do? Adjust our expectations! DON'T buy a K4 if you can't afford to throw it away in a few years. It's probably less maintainable than the K3 and Elecraft is bleeding the talent and excitement that served them so well in the beginning. Who of us believes there will suddenly appear a supply of brilliant, loyal, YOUNG engineers and programmers to keep the tradition alive. If you want to keep your rig going for decades, get a Heathkit, Drake, or Collins. They do most of what a K- does and you already have most of the parts to fix them, or one of your friends does, or Mouser does! Otherwise, buy an FT-450 and dump it the same way you dumped your digi tv converter! The labor to fix it would cost more than a new one anyway. Mass production and specialized hardware have done a great job of giving us marvelous stuff, at the price of maintainability and support. Who has had their TV repaired lately? Would anyone like to buy an IC-746? All it needs is a display? Or one of those Yaesus that just needs a microprocessor or two? > > Me? I am as thrilled to work NY with a 2W Millen Variarm VFO (1941) as I am to work China with my K3, actually more so because I spent a day or so making the Variarm work, realizing full well that a day of reasonably competent service would cost enough to buy an FT-450, or some other low end rig. > > Writing checks and struggling with menus produces NO intellectual reward and often leads to frustration! > > OK, I feel better, like after a nice trip to the Field Day Porta Potty, so let the flames begin. Better yet, if you want to discuss your SW-3, Wasp, Comet Pro, RME-70, SX-16, SB-401, HT-9, or Gonset Communicator, just let me know. And remember, you'll be old someday too. I'll keep trying to figure out receiving antenna assignment on the K3... > > Wilson > K4OGP (1957), W4BOH (Dad 1932, me 1987) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Ham Qualifications, Customer Service
I wish this board could stay technical. Maybe we should have another one for service issues and rants? Ham qualifications were mentioned in the signal quality discussion. Someone should man up and state the obvious: Radios have become appliances that only a tiny minority could work on in any competent way and even then they would need pretty spiffy test equipment. I am a lifelong hacker and 65 year call holder, with radar, BC, and radio experience of all sorts, but I have near zero interest in repairing my old K3. I might look for a loose connection, but I've never opened either of my two, bought used. The "qualifications" we claim to have are a farce. People with NO IDEA about anything technical can memorize enough answers to get by the test. No offense, but this covers about 90% of new licensees. But maybe it doesn't matter. We need the numbers for political reasons and those who know enough, or want to learn enough, to do something technical can ignore the others. Of course we can choose to help some of the others in the rare instance when they actually want to learn something. Mostly they want someone to set up their appliance so they can pretend to be hams and press the button. Or go over and put up an antenna or two for them. I feel for the "company" but, for whatever reason, they have abandoned the owners of very expensive equipment they indicated they would maintain and support. They are no more, or less, culpable than the big guys. And "we" share the blame. Anyone who expects a piece of advanced techie equipment, with 100 or so man-years of programming and a handfull of specialized ICs in it to have a long (decade+) commercial life is a dreamer. I just threw away an expensive wall oven because the SECOND $350 control board failed and I wasn't about to buy a third one! If you think Elecraft is bad, just try dealing with Whirlpool! I bought a GE (control board $75) with half the bells and whistles and it cooks fine. If I could, I'd buy one with a knob! Front load washers are thrown away regularly because of door gasket leaks. FYI, Speed Queen makes a fine top loader with mechanical timer and NO SCREEN or flashing numbers! What can we do? Adjust our expectations! DON'T buy a K4 if you can't afford to throw it away in a few years. It's probably less maintainable than the K3 and Elecraft is bleeding the talent and excitement that served them so well in the beginning. Who of us believes there will suddenly appear a supply of brilliant, loyal, YOUNG engineers and programmers to keep the tradition alive. If you want to keep your rig going for decades, get a Heathkit, Drake, or Collins. They do most of what a K- does and you already have most of the parts to fix them, or one of your friends does, or Mouser does! Otherwise, buy an FT-450 and dump it the same way you dumped your digi tv converter! The labor to fix it would cost more than a new one anyway. Mass production and specialized hardware have done a great job of giving us marvelous stuff, at the price of maintainability and support. Who has had their TV repaired lately? Would anyone like to buy an IC-746? All it needs is a display? Or one of those Yaesus that just needs a microprocessor or two? Me? I am as thrilled to work NY with a 2W Millen Variarm VFO (1941) as I am to work China with my K3, actually more so because I spent a day or so making the Variarm work, realizing full well that a day of reasonably competent service would cost enough to buy an FT-450, or some other low end rig. Writing checks and struggling with menus produces NO intellectual reward and often leads to frustration! OK, I feel better, like after a nice trip to the Field Day Porta Potty, so let the flames begin. Better yet, if you want to discuss your SW-3, Wasp, Comet Pro, RME-70, SX-16, SB-401, HT-9, or Gonset Communicator, just let me know. And remember, you'll be old someday too. I'll keep trying to figure out receiving antenna assignment on the K3... Wilson K4OGP (1957), W4BOH (Dad 1932, me 1987) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
