Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Hello David, $69.95 for the board + $40.50 shipping by USPS International (it came in a surprisingly large box but very well packed) + VAT on entering UK + (the worst part) £13.50 Parcelforce handling charge. It all added up to £92.72. It took about 10 days door to door by USPS International. I could have chosen USPS Priority Int. for a saving of about $15 but that would have been of very uncertain duration. 73 and Happy New Year Geoff G3UCK - Original Message - From: David Cutter d.cut...@ntlworld.com What was the delivered price into UK, Geoff ? David G3UNA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Geoff and group, I also have one on order which has yet to arrive. This time, I forgot to ask the good people at Elecraft to ship in as small a box as possible. Sometimes a small parcel coming by post is just passed through without being charged VAT by our Post Service. This never happens with any of the other carriers. I may call Elecraft later today to request that when they do ship that they use a small box. Good luck with the installation. 73 Doug EI2CN -Original Message- Hello David, $69.95 for the board + $40.50 shipping by USPS International (it came in a surprisingly large box but very well packed) + VAT on entering UK + (the worst part) £13.50 Parcelforce handling charge. It all added up to £92.72. It took about 10 days door to door by USPS International. I could have chosen USPS Priority Int. for a saving of about $15 but that would have been of very uncertain duration. 73 and Happy New Year Geoff G3UCK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Nobody at Elecraft has been able to explain to me why the new DSP board I received some time ago has had such a profound affect on my K3. It was not supposed to. Mainly, in improved AGC. Also improved uniformity of Rx Gain between my K3's #272 and #2308. The DSP board upgrade has been the single biggest improvement I've seen in the K3 since getting it 2 years ago. I saved all my previous firmware loads and took them all the way back with the new DSP board as a test. I could not make the K3 behave the way it used to (in a less desirable manner) with any of the old firmware or DSP loads. If you are not an AGC focused operator (most CW guys are), or if you use headphones - you may not notice to the extent that I did. But if you are - a DSP board upgrade would be a deal at twice the cost... IMO YMMV, etc. [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot? James Sarte k2qi.nyc at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 08:30:47 EST 2009 Previous message: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot? Next message: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Jim, This is the problem I've experienced, and why I think my receiver is noisy. I can hear a high frequency whine or tone that only gets worse if I adjust the receive EQ to enhance voice intelligibility. This can make working weak signals fatiguing. I should probably just cough up the money and swap out DSP boards for a new one with an LPF installed. However, I'm not too thrilled about the unannounced price increase from 69 to 89 dollars. Had I known, I would have ordered one earlier. 73 de James K2QI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Jim, This is the problem I've experienced, and why I think my receiver is noisy. I can hear a high frequency whine or tone that only gets worse if I adjust the receive EQ to enhance voice intelligibility. This can make working weak signals fatiguing. I should probably just cough up the money and swap out DSP boards for a new one with an LPF installed. However, I'm not too thrilled about the unannounced price increase from 69 to 89 dollars. Had I known, I would have ordered one earlier. 73 de James K2QI On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.comwrote: So yes, there ought to be user-definable high pass and low pass filters in the audio system. There ARE such filters in the IF, but not in the audio system. The result is that if gains are not well managed in the K3, some of our younger users could hear hiss. Since my highs are long gone, I can't comment on that. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 de James K2QI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
K2QI wrote: This is the problem I've experienced, and why I think my receiver is noisy. I can hear a high frequency whine or tone that only gets worse if I adjust the receive EQ to enhance voice intelligibility. This can make working weak signals fatiguing. I should probably just cough up the money and swap out DSP boards for a new one with an LPF installed. However, I'm not too thrilled about the unannounced price increase from 69 to 89 dollars. Had I known, I would have ordered one earlier. I suspect that the price increase reflected the addition of the LPF board, and the short window of opportunity for purchasing the DSP+LPF at the old price was the time it took for Elecraft to realise they would be losing money on the deal. The $69 was really just for the Rev. C board swap without the LPF. I don't know if anyone actually got one of those, or whether Elecraft delayed fulfilling the orders until the LPF was ready and decided not to ask those who had already paid fro an extra $20. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-LPF-bass-audio-new-DSP-board-Stirring-the-pot-tp4226184p4228122.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Hi James: I understand from talking to Elecraft service that they will be offering the LPF board as an add-on for those that don't feel the necessity of changing out the DSP board. No technical details yet. 73, Mike K2MK I should probably just cough up the money and swap out DSP boards for a new one with an LPF installed. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-LPF-bass-audio-new-DSP-board-Stirring-the-pot-tp4226184p4228302.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Well, I ended up ordering the DSP upgrade board today, plus a few other items. Everything came to a little under 200 dollars including shipping. Here's what I ordered: BNC-MM $6.95 1 Male-Male BNC K3DSPUPGD $89.95 1 K3 DSP Upgr. Swap K3IOBUFFKT $5.00 1 K3 I/O Output Buffer Kit XG2 $79.95 1 3 Band 1-uV and 50-uV Rcv. Te I figured the XG2 would be a good thing to have around as well. I can finally get around to properly calibrating my s-meter. Slightly OT question though; you know the 1 wire mod that's used to protect the front end? Where can I buy the type of wire required? I think it's Kynar... whatever it is, its insulated, solid-conductor wire that's around 22 guage. When I performed this mod several months ago, I had a few of those small, pre-cut and pre-tinned solid conductor wires included in breadboard electronic kits, and I used one that was the right length. I like to buy a spool of this stuff though for a few more breadboard projects I'm working on. Mni tnx es vy 73, James K2QI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Regarding the new DSP board, I was not one of those who had issues with the old one or considered the K3 to be noisy on rx and I ordered the new one simply to keep my K3 #266 up to date. I use SSB almost exclusively, these days seeking dx on 80m with a headset. Having installed the new board a few days ago my subjective and non-technical assessment so far is a more pleasing sound in the headphones with increased bass response and reduced white noise without loss of sensitivity. On tx slightly fuller audio from my HC4 with more mid range. (Both rx and tx assessed with equaliser all zeros.) So on the whole I regard the new board as an improvement. Worth the money? Well that depends on how you look at it and different people may have different views. I managed to convince myself that I could afford it and I feel no sense of disappointment after the event. 73 and Happy 2010 to all Geoff G3UCK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
What was the delivered price into UK, Geoff ? David G3UNA Regarding the new DSP board, I was not one of those who had issues with the old one or considered the K3 to be noisy on rx and I ordered the new one simply to keep my K3 #266 up to date. I use SSB almost exclusively, these days seeking dx on 80m with a headset. Having installed the new board a few days ago my subjective and non-technical assessment so far is a more pleasing sound in the headphones with increased bass response and reduced white noise without loss of sensitivity. On tx slightly fuller audio from my HC4 with more mid range. (Both rx and tx assessed with equaliser all zeros.) So on the whole I regard the new board as an improvement. Worth the money? Well that depends on how you look at it and different people may have different views. I managed to convince myself that I could afford it and I feel no sense of disappointment after the event. 73 and Happy 2010 to all Geoff G3UCK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
I had already paid for mine before they decided to add the LPF in to the deal, so I suspect you are correct Julian. Don't know if they initially were going to offer the LPF as a customer DIY add on, or if they decided it might be better if they did the work in house to eleviate too many failures. It was probably easier for them all around taking the option they did. Stan Rife W5EWA -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 9:50 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot? K2QI wrote: This is the problem I've experienced, and why I think my receiver is noisy. I can hear a high frequency whine or tone that only gets worse if I adjust the receive EQ to enhance voice intelligibility. This can make working weak signals fatiguing. I should probably just cough up the money and swap out DSP boards for a new one with an LPF installed. However, I'm not too thrilled about the unannounced price increase from 69 to 89 dollars. Had I known, I would have ordered one earlier. I suspect that the price increase reflected the addition of the LPF board, and the short window of opportunity for purchasing the DSP+LPF at the old price was the time it took for Elecraft to realise they would be losing money on the deal. The $69 was really just for the Rev. C board swap without the LPF. I don't know if anyone actually got one of those, or whether Elecraft delayed fulfilling the orders until the LPF was ready and decided not to ask those who had already paid fro an extra $20. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-LPF-bass-audio-new-DSP-board-Stirring-the-pot-tp4226 184p4228122.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
I can't figure out why they are charging 5 bucks for 2 resistors in the K3 I/O OUTPUT BUFFER KIT, when they are giving away the parts for the rest of the upgrades for just the price of the postage. Are these two resistors gold plated or something? I just used a spare 15K 5% leaded resistor I had in my parts box. Shouldn't that be a give away too Eric? Stan Rife W5EWA -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Sarte Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:37 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot? Well, I ended up ordering the DSP upgrade board today, plus a few other items. Everything came to a little under 200 dollars including shipping. Here's what I ordered: BNC-MM $6.95 1 Male-Male BNC K3DSPUPGD $89.95 1 K3 DSP Upgr. Swap K3IOBUFFKT $5.00 1 K3 I/O Output Buffer Kit XG2 $79.95 1 3 Band 1-uV and 50-uV Rcv. Te I figured the XG2 would be a good thing to have around as well. I can finally get around to properly calibrating my s-meter. Slightly OT question though; you know the 1 wire mod that's used to protect the front end? Where can I buy the type of wire required? I think it's Kynar... whatever it is, its insulated, solid-conductor wire that's around 22 guage. When I performed this mod several months ago, I had a few of those small, pre-cut and pre-tinned solid conductor wires included in breadboard electronic kits, and I used one that was the right length. I like to buy a spool of this stuff though for a few more breadboard projects I'm working on. Mni tnx es vy 73, James K2QI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
I have to admit, I just have not experienced any of these issues with either of my K3s. Yes, I am mostly a CW guy and yes, I use headphones. So...lacking any real test equipment (I assume that if the test equipment between my ears can't discern it, then who cares what a meter or scope shows me). Crude, I know, but this worked well for me one summer, in 1974 when I worked for Signal/One. They had all the test gear and engineers (this was when they moved to NJ), but nobody there could figure out/understand what was wrong with the radios returned for repair. All I needed was a couple minute with the radios (on the air) to quickly discover what was wrong and THEN the engineers could apply a fix/repair. http://picasaweb.google.com/dougzzz/KR2Q1966ToPresent#5419152602223700290 Anyhow, someone recently made a great post (IMHO)...sorry I can't remember who it was, listing the three problems. So I decided to test the K3s using what I have here (my ears, acoustic nerves, and brain). First, I have my cw pitch set to 400hz. Using the CWT feature, I zeroed in a cw signal. Heard it FINE via the inboard speaker and equally as fine via my communication headphones (the headphones sound great on CW, but I can tell that they are getting restrictive on SSB on the top end). Then, using my RIT, I dialed in 200hz offset (making the received signal lower in pitch). Using my headphones, the signal seemed fine...perfectly readable, good tone, easy to copy. Then I pulled the headphone plug to listen via the internal speaker: NOTHING. Just some thunks - I could not copy any signal at all and I certainly could not read any CW. So I plugged the headphone back in and BINGOperfect, smooth, easy copy with a 200hz note. A real difference. I am thrilled that those who have implemented the new DSP board with LPF can now hear better, but I have to wonder how much of this has to do with trying to do too much with an internal speaker. I don't know and I am not conjecturingI'm just wondering. At least now, I do know why I have not experienced most (any?) of these audio issues. If I find a pair of quality HI-FI stereo phones around the house somewhere, maybe I'll plug those in and see if I can duplicate the noisy receiver problem, suspecting that is due to hiss as others have suggested. Right now, using communication headphones, I can not. One last thing that I do not understand...and I am hoping someone can answer me. Why would riding the RF gain or adding Attenuation in any way impact noise (assuming it is not due to intermod)? Today I tried that again and again. Adding in attenuation simply reduced the audio output (again, according to my EAR). Yes, the noise went down, but did the signal. When I upped the AF gain to compensate, well, everything sounded the same relatively speaking (signal and noise) as with no attenuation. If the noise is not due to intermod (what Elecraft calls desense) then what can cutting back on the total signal due in terms of making less noise? I am not a technical guy. I just have lots of ham radio experience. My UG degree is in Biology (BS). I did my first graduate work at U Penn School of Veterinary Medicine (VMD) and my 2nd grad degree earlier this decade in Healthcare Administration (MHA). Like I said, I'm no techie. :-) Wishing everyone a Happy New Year for 2010. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:09:46 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: Your post is excellent, and I agree with most of it. I do want to correct an important error. See below. If the noise is not due to intermod (what Elecraft calls desense) Intermod and desense are VERY different things. Intermod is the generation of beat frequencies by a non-linear process (that is, amplitude distortion). Desense (short for desensitization) is the reduction in the gain of a system by such severe rectification of the input signal that the bias point is shifted enough (to either cutoff or saturation) to reduce the gain of the system. Yes, both are the result of overloading of a gain stage (usually the input), intermod simply produces trash and spurious responses, while desense can literally turn the input stage off. As an example, I once owned a very nice little Yaesu talkie that could be biased so strongly into cutoff in downtown Chicago that it couldn't hear a 100W repeater feeding a 9dB gain antenna on a 1,000 ft building two miles away. then what can cutting back on the total signal due in terms of making less noise? EXACTLY! The vast majority of HF communications circuits are limited by noise that comes in on the antenna, not circuit noise in the receiver. This is definitely true on all ham bands below 20M, no matter where you live, and it's usually true above 20M unless either the bands are dead or you live in a VERY quiet QTH. W8JI has often observed that if the noise in your headphones increases when you connect the antenna, noise in the electronics is NOT a problem. FWIW, I have ALWAYS used pro quality headphones with my ham gear, and certainly don't consider the K3 noisy. Of course, I'm 68, have been a ham for 54 years, and have worked in pro audio for the past 40 years, so my hearing is down a bit on the high end. :) YMMV. It should also be noted that while the K3 comes with multiband graphic RX EQ, there are no bands above 5kHz. That's something that the crew in Aptos might want to add to the to do list. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
Jim K9YC wrote: It should also be noted that while the K3 comes with multiband graphic RX EQ, there are no bands above 5kHz. This is an interesting point Jim. Human hearing in the 20 kHz range is not unheard of. I wonder if the K3 design cuts this off above 5 kHz or if it allows it to pass through the audio stage? Can anyone on the list clarify this? 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: LPF, bass audio, new DSP board: Stirring the pot?
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:33:03 -0800, Fred Atchley wrote: Human hearing in the 20 kHz range is not unheard of. We start out that way as children, but suffer hearing loss from multiple sources, mostly due to exposure to excessively loud sounds. I wonder if the K3 design cuts this off above 5 kHz or if it allows it to pass through the audio stage? Good engineering practice would include high pass and low pass filters at the limits of transmitted bandwidth. For ham circuits, 300 Hz and 3.5 kHz would be good cutoff frequencies for 3-pole filters for HF radios. For AM broadcast, 40 Hz and 9 kHz (US) and 8 kHz (EU) are about right. It should also be noted that roughly two decades ago, AM broadcasting adopted the practice of HF pre-emphasis like with FM and analog TV. But PULEEZE don't tell the wideband AM lunatic fringe. As Riley Hollingsworth said so eloquently when he was running the FCC's Enforcement Bureau, if you want to be a broadcaster, buy a broadcast license or get a job at a radio station. So yes, there ought to be user-definable high pass and low pass filters in the audio system. There ARE such filters in the IF, but not in the audio system. The result is that if gains are not well managed in the K3, some of our younger users could hear hiss. Since my highs are long gone, I can't comment on that. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
