[Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2008-09-17 Thread Bud Governale, W3LL
When breaking out K3 Accessory Connector leads to RCA jacks, do all return 
connections for PTT, Key Out, ALC, +12Vin, 
Power On, Digiout0 and Digiout1 go to either pins 5 or 12?

Bud W3LL
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Charles Harpole
Along with the Anderson power poles, here is another bad choice for 
connector...  the multi pin thing that is now used on computers for serial 
and parallel interface (in some pin number or other) was a stupid choice on 
computers and is even worse on a ham rig. My electronic engineer tells me 
these things were designed for about 25 plug and unplug prior to expected 
failure.


Not counting the difficulty of soldering to these tiny things.  What have 
modern technicans in the ham world... got against EASY 

And why think NEW is the same as BETTER ?
Did u ever step on one of these things?

I hope I misunderstood the connector name.

Gee wizz.

Oh, yes, keep my K3 order current !
Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Julian G4ILO
I am surprised that you suggest these D connectors will only withstand
25 connections and disconnections. What do you suggest would be
better? Many ham radios (including my FT-817) and other gear use the
awful mini-DIN connectors with tiny pins that are about the thickness
of a piece of wire. An old digital camera of mine has one of those and
it has certainly lasted more than 25 connections, though it must be a
miracle. The computer D plugs are solid and robust by comparison,
whatever your engineer thinks.

-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 8/29/07, Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Along with the Anderson power poles, here is another bad choice for
 connector...  the multi pin thing that is now used on computers for serial
 and parallel interface (in some pin number or other) was a stupid choice on
 computers and is even worse on a ham rig. My electronic engineer tells me
 these things were designed for about 25 plug and unplug prior to expected
 failure.

 Not counting the difficulty of soldering to these tiny things.  What have
 modern technicans in the ham world... got against EASY 
 And why think NEW is the same as BETTER ?
 Did u ever step on one of these things?

 I hope I misunderstood the connector name.

 Gee wizz.

 Oh, yes, keep my K3 order current !
 Charles Harpole
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 _
 See what you're getting into…before you go there
 http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Julian G4ILO
I found this specification sheet
http://www.erni.com/DB/PDF/TMC/ERNI-TMC-Connectors-e.pdf which
suggests that these connectors are good for 200 mating cycles (bet
that doesn't get past the spam filter!) That's more than enough for
me, though I see a 500 cycle rated version is also available.

Anyone who needs to make more disconnections than that should make a
short flying lead with a more robust connector on the end of it.

Don't forget this is a small radio so it has to have small connectors.
Also why should every buyer have to pay the cost of expensive military
grade connectors with a life cycle that most users will never reach?
The connectors Elecraft is using are the same as used on every other
radio and you don't hear constant complaints about failure from every
ham.

-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 8/29/07, Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So called   D connectors have design specifications issued by various mfg
 of them.  Most list a limited life of 10 to 30 plug/unplug cycles.  That is
 from the designers.  Of course, hams often push design specs well beyond
 those published... a good example is my friend's 50 foot FREE STANDING Rohn
 25G tower topped with a 5 el tribander (still standing after 16 yrs with no
 guys-- crazy)

 but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY.  The K3 is a
 field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson
 Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations UNLESS If
 u have
 1. steady soldering hands
 2. very good eyesight
 3.  extra patience
 4.  proper small soldering tools
 5. a proper crimper
 6. extra care when plugging and unplugging, and
 7.  a large parts store locally in ur area,

 THEN, you can welcome these toy (D) or non standard (APP) connectors.  What
 is better, altho old stuff--- Cinch Jones (or even Molex) and below that,
 screw terminal strips and/or  binding posts.  If u r stuck with only bare
 wire and MUST make a connection, sticking a bare wire tip into a Jones
 socket is DO-ABLE, or even into a Molex try that with D s and even with
 the APPs.

 The JA folks who gave us DIN connectors are now roasting in Small Connector
 Hell, where they have to solder 30 pin DINs with the firey heat of their
 bare fingers and are dipped bodily into molten solder for every mistake.

 Oh wish.

 Charles Harpole
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 _
 A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here.
 http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread David Pratt

In a recent message, Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...
but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY.  The K3 is 
a field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson 
Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations


Are you suggesting that there be a last minute change in the design of 
the K3, Charles, thus delaying the dispatch of the K3 to those of us who 
are happy with the product?


73
--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Goody K3NG
A stupid choice? In my meager 18 year IT  Electronics career I've never 
seen a D-sub failure beyond mashed pins (which was due to operator error 
or abuse). I've seen these go through hundreds of matings with no 
problem. Also, you can still get these connectors at Radio Shaft, so I 
think it's a great choice, better than those DIN connectors that are 
much more of a pain to locate, solder, and assemble (especially the 
mini-DINs). The fact that it's a 15 pin connector makes it even more 
available as it's a computer SVGA port connector. You can go to Circuit 
City and purchase an SVGA extension cable, cut off one end and you have 
a prefab cable (no connector soldering).


And how is the D-Sub connector new? I think these things have been 
around since the 70's?


What connector should they use? Please don't suggest a Jones connector 
or those round metal Amphenol waterproof connectors. We don't need 20 
amp connections and a connector that will withstand combat. An RG-45 
might be a candidate, but it has half the pins and arguably isn't as 
robust as a D sub. (An outright bad choice would have been one of those 
72 pin SCSI connectors.)


72
Goody
K3NG


Charles Harpole wrote:
Along with the Anderson power poles, here is another bad choice for 
connector... the multi pin thing that is now used on computers for 
serial and parallel interface (in some pin number or other) was a 
stupid choice on computers and is even worse on a ham rig. My 
electronic engineer tells me these things were designed for about 25 
plug and unplug prior to expected failure.


Not counting the difficulty of soldering to these tiny things. What 
have modern technicans in the ham world... got against EASY 

And why think NEW is the same as BETTER ?
Did u ever step on one of these things?

I hope I misunderstood the connector name.

Gee wizz.

Oh, yes, keep my K3 order current !
Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
See what you’re getting into…before you go there 
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507


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--
Blog: http://thek3ngreport.blogspot.com/

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Re: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread d.cutter
Somebody mentioned the reliability of military connectors.  One well-known 
military connector (Pattern 105 series) used in millions has a 500 insertions 
limit. Reliability is calculated from a change of resistance beyond a given 
limit at a given current, ambient temperature, etc.  Most applications are 
designed not to go near the limit, so, 'reliability' as a statistical tool is 
limited.  WE might consider an unreliable connector in a different way.

David
G3UNA

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread John Huggins

Charles Harpole wrote:

So called   D connectors have design specifications issued by 
various mfg of them.  Most list a limited life of 10 to 30 plug/unplug 
cycles.  That is from the designers.  Of course, hams often push 
design specs well beyond those published...


10-30 plug/unplug cycles is for those who use cheap components and/or 
don't expect the need for many cycles (a printer for example).


If there is concern about cycling lifetime, consider using a D-Shell or 
HD D-Shell that complies with MIL-DTL-24308; Cycling lifetime is much 
higher that the 10-30.


 http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-DTL-24308/dtl24308.pdf

They are available and are more robust models of the classic D-Shells.  
They have been around for many decades now and are a fine choice.




but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY.  The K3 is 
a field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson 
Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations 
UNLESS If u have

1. steady soldering hands
2. very good eyesight
3.  extra patience
4.  proper small soldering tools
5. a proper crimper
6. extra care when plugging and unplugging, and
7.  a large parts store locally in ur area,


Granted, but even the most modest electrical/electronics workbench has 
at least some of these items and once you have your cables complete and 
made with good components and, perhaps, include a spare set, you should 
be good to go.




THEN, you can welcome these toy (D) or non standard (APP) connectors.


Cheap D-Shell connectors are toys.  Good D-Shell connectors are good 
enough for harsh military conditions and are certainly not toys.  
Anderson Power Poles have become a standard.


What is better, altho old stuff--- Cinch Jones (or even Molex) and 
below that, screw terminal strips and/or  binding posts.  If u r stuck 
with only bare wire and MUST make a connection, sticking a bare wire 
tip into a Jones socket is DO-ABLE, or even into a Molex try that 
with D s and even with the APPs.


Old has its place, but has its costs and frequently ignores valid progress.



The JA folks who gave us DIN connectors are now roasting in Small 
Connector Hell, where they have to solder 30 pin DINs with the firey 
heat of their bare fingers and are dipped bodily into molten solder 
for every mistake.


Hahahaha... I think I agree with you on this one.
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Brett gazdzinski
 
Kind of silly, I have regular normal D connectors that
have worked fine after many thousands or connects
and disconnects.
I cant say I ever had a problem with the old stuff, it's the new
stuff that lasts a month, like cell phone charger hookups.



Brett
N2DTS

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Fred N. van Kempen
 
Brett writes:

 Kind of silly, I have regular normal D connectors that
 have worked fine after many thousands or connects
 and disconnects.
I tend to agree... my 1972-era PDP-11 systems all have
D-shell connectors for most I/O, and guess what, they
still work fine.  And yeah, that's slightly more then
the listed 200-to-500 matings, I can guarantee that! :)

Elecraft's choice of using the D-Sub15 is fine.  It's
solderable by most people, not too flimsy to just break
when being pulled at the connector end (try that with a
MiniDIN ..) and, as someone else already mentioned, you
can even grab a regular PC VGA cable, get rid of the 
other end of the cable (that being a connector or a
monitor ;-) and then use it for the KayThree...

Cheers,

Fred PA4YBR/KA4YBR #05331

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread R. Kevin Stover
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

This is whole argument is ridiculous!

ANYBODY, who mates and de-mates a sub-D connector more than 50 times
needs to sit down and take a serious look at their operating practices.
A Cinch-Jones accessory connector? Come on! Why is the ridiculous Molex
connector considered a standard? Not because it's any better than the
APP but because it's what the manufacturers could get for pennies per
connector.


Charles Harpole wrote:
 So called   D connectors have design specifications issued by various
 mfg of them.  Most list a limited life of 10 to 30 plug/unplug cycles. 
 That is from the designers.  Of course, hams often push design specs
 well beyond those published... a good example is my friend's 50 foot
 FREE STANDING Rohn 25G tower topped with a 5 el tribander (still
 standing after 16 yrs with no guys-- crazy)
 
 but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY.  The K3 is a
 field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson
 Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations UNLESS
 If u have
 1. steady soldering hands
 2. very good eyesight
 3.  extra patience
 4.  proper small soldering tools
 5. a proper crimper
 6. extra care when plugging and unplugging, and
 7.  a large parts store locally in ur area,
 
 THEN, you can welcome these toy (D) or non standard (APP) connectors. 
 What is better, altho old stuff--- Cinch Jones (or even Molex) and below
 that, screw terminal strips and/or  binding posts.  If u r stuck with
 only bare wire and MUST make a connection, sticking a bare wire tip into
 a Jones socket is DO-ABLE, or even into a Molex try that with D s
 and even with the APPs.
 
 The JA folks who gave us DIN connectors are now roasting in Small
 Connector Hell, where they have to solder 30 pin DINs with the firey
 heat of their bare fingers and are dipped bodily into molten solder for
 every mistake.
 
 Oh wish.
 
 Charles Harpole
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 _
 A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here.
 http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Mark Bayern
 Come on! Why is the ridiculous Molex
 connector considered a standard? Not because it's any better than the
 APP but because it's what the manufacturers could get for pennies per
 connector.

I designed a CNC control in the middle 70's and we used Molex
connectors for DC power connections to the motherboard. These
connectors normally had one insertion cycle on them, at most some had
5-10 cycles. They were so bad that the systems would fail and we would
discover that the nylon had blackened with heat generated at the
connection. We tried switching to gold contacts, and it helped, but
the final solution was to hardwire (solder) the power leads to the
board.

So far my experience with the APP connectors is much better.

Mark  AD5SS
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread N2EY
In a message dated 8/29/07 7:38:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 You can go to Circuit 
 City and purchase an SVGA extension cable, cut off one end and you have 
 a prefab cable (no connector soldering).

Don't even have to do that. As flat-panel displays have become inexpensive, 
old CRT displays show up on the trash all the time, usually with their video 
cables. 
 
 And how is the D-Sub connector new? I think these things have been 
 around since the 70's?
 

My 1959 (not a typo - it's foorty-eight years old) Newark catalog lists the 
D-sub connectors. 

73 de Jim, N2EY


**
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all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Paul Ferguson
 
 but much more than reliability is the issue of USE-ABILITY.  The K3 is
 a field radio and under the most remote and demanding condx, anderson
 Powerpole and these D thingies are the first frustrations
 UNLESS 

For those who think the D and Anderson connectors are such a big 
problem, why not just make up a set of short cables. On one end 
attach the mating connectors required for the K3. On the other end, 
attach the connector meeting your requirement.


Paul
K5ESW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Mike S

At 03:59 AM 8/29/2007, Charles Harpole wrote...
So called   D connectors have design specifications issued by 
various mfg of them.  Most list a limited life of 10 to 30 plug/unplug 
cycles.  That is from the designers.


You must be looking at some cheap Chinese clone. Please cite the other 
manufacturers who constitute most, and the total size of your sample.


Cinch originated the design, and their basic model ( 
http://www.cinch.com/view_sub_product_line.cinch?section_id=24sub_section_id=113section_title=D-subminiature 
) is rated for 500 cycles.


Long time experience with these connectors in data applications shows 
that to be a very conservative number.


I can't think of any style connector which offers a better mix of low 
cost, ready availability, wide choice of sizes, and reliable operation. 
Exactly what connector are you thinking would have been a better 
choice?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Goody K3NG
Cinch Jones made sense back when you needed pins to handle 10 or 15 amps 
of filament supply and manufacturing couldn't technically or 
economically produce some of the connectors we have today.  It's an 
antiquated connector for things like audio and control lines.


I always thought the Molex connector was one of the cheesiest connectors 
around and I would choose binding posts as a standard over these.  It's 
more a mate-once and forget about it connector.  I think the robustness 
of a Molex and an APP is about the same (doing the step on in test), 
however the genderless nature of APP puts it over the top.  APP is now a 
standard, period.


Have you used an APP?  It's a piece of cake to insert a bare wire into 
one of these, either on the mating end or the cable end and on *any* 
connector since they have no gender.  With a DB-9/15/25 it's easy to 
insert a small gauge wire into a female connector (which is what I 
believe is used on the K3), and arguably easier to get positive contact 
than you will on a slotted Jones female pin.


The soldering argument against the D sub connector is a moot issue.  As 
I mentioned earlier, cheap prefab cables are available at your local 
mall.  Even Wally World probably has them.  You can even snip the cables 
off of dead monitors in the dumpster at the office.  It doesn't get much 
easier and is in the true scrounger spirit of Amateur Radio.




Charles Harpole wrote:



THEN, you can welcome these toy (D) or non standard (APP) connectors.  
What is better, altho old stuff--- Cinch Jones (or even Molex) and 
below that, screw terminal strips and/or  binding posts.  If u r stuck 
with only bare wire and MUST make a connection, sticking a bare wire 
tip into a Jones socket is DO-ABLE, or even into a Molex try that 
with D s and even with the APPs.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-29 Thread Chris Kantarjiev
 The JA folks who gave us DIN connectors

This made me chuckle. DIN stands for Deutsche Industrie Norm ... it
was the DL folks who created them :-) The original 3- and 5-pin
connectors have been used on audio gear since the 50s, and have
*always* been a nuisance to solder :-)

The D series of connectors started as an alternative to the
large round amphenol series. I first saw them on gear that was
built in the 60s for the avionics/aerospace industry - in particular,
on the guidance computer for the Minuteman I series of missiles.

Yes, you need some special tooling to do them right. At least, today,
you can get solder cup versions instead of having to crimp every pin.
If you've built a K2, you have the tools and skills to make these 
connectors work.

I don't have a problem with this choice. If you don't have the tooling
to make up a pigtail to your connector family of choice, I'm sure
you can find someone on this list who will.

73 de chris K6DBG
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[Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-28 Thread Phil Debbie Salas
I THINK that the K3 accessory connector is a standard 15-pin high density
D-sub female connector.  Is this correct?  The connector in the photo only
has 14 pins.  I'm placing an order to Mouser and I want to go ahead and get
a couple of male connectors.  The HD-15 D-sub male is Mouser part number
156-1815 (plus a 156-2010 hood).

Phil - AD5X

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-28 Thread Ed Muns
 I THINK that the K3 accessory connector is a standard 15-pin 
 high density D-sub female connector.  Is this correct?  The 
 connector in the photo only has 14 pins.  I'm placing an 
 order to Mouser and I want to go ahead and get a couple of 
 male connectors.  The HD-15 D-sub male is Mouser part number
 156-1815 (plus a 156-2010 hood).

Yes, the Accessory port is a standard DE15S jack and the rear panel drawing
is slightly in error by showing only 14 pins.  I ordered a supply of the
mating DE15P connectors from Mouser and made up some cables for FSK, PTT and
the AuxBus to the KRC2.  

73,
Ed - W0YK

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Accessory Connector

2007-08-28 Thread Lyle Johnson

I THINK that the K3 accessory connector is a standard 15-pin high density
D-sub female connector.  Is this correct?


Yes, it is. DE-15P is the mating connector.

73,

Lyle KK7P

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