Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3 Wanted

[Larry Shapiro]

Kind of happened by accident,
Larry k6ro


-Original Message- 
From: Jim Cary

Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:30 AM
To: Paul GACEK
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3 Wanted

Yes, K6RO seems to be running a K3 dealership on Ebay!



On Jul 12, 2021, at 2:25 PM, Paul GACEK  wrote:

Hi Jim

Seemingly lots of K3 and add ons available on eBay at present.

Paul


On Jul 12, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Jim Cary  wrote:

Interested in a K3S or maybe K3 for a backup to my current K3S.

If you have one you would like to get rid of, please email me the 
particulars.


Thanks,

Jim
W2SM


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3 Wanted

[Jim Cary]

Yes, K6RO seems to be running a K3 dealership on Ebay!


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 2:25 PM, Paul GACEK  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim
> 
> Seemingly lots of K3 and add ons available on eBay at present.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Jim Cary  wrote:
>> 
>> Interested in a K3S or maybe K3 for a backup to my current K3S.
>> 
>> If you have one you would like to get rid of, please email me the 
>> particulars.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jim
>> W2SM
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3 Wanted

[Paul GACEK via Elecraft]

Hi Jim

Seemingly lots of K3 and add ons available on eBay at present.

Paul

> On Jul 12, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Jim Cary  wrote:
> 
> Interested in a K3S or maybe K3 for a backup to my current K3S.
> 
> If you have one you would like to get rid of, please email me the particulars.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim
> W2SM
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] K3S or K3 Wanted

[Jim Cary]

Interested in a K3S or maybe K3 for a backup to my current K3S.

If you have one you would like to get rid of, please email me the particulars.

Thanks,

Jim
W2SM


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[Elecraft] K3s or K3

[Viggo Magnus Nilsen]

 

Hello . 

Any have an K3s or K3 for sale ? KIT of it never build...also of
interest. 

Pse mail me direct if you have something to offer : la9nea at online.no 

73 Viggo LA9NEA 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3

[Matt Maguire]

What is leading you towards considering a K2? What do you plan to use it for?
I really enjoyed building and using my K2. The QSK on it is smooth and silent, 
whether QRP or with the KXPA100, and I love being able to switch seamlessly 
between paddle and straight key without having to change anything on the radio.
I miss the PX3 panadapter when using the K2 -- maybe at some point I'll tap the 
IF and use a softrock SDR + laptop to get a panadapter display.
I haven't used the K2 for any digital modes so far -- I think there are some 
mods recommended first. Frequency stability could possibly be a concern with 
some of the more fussy digi modes -- although I have to say the K2 I 
bought/built last year came with all the latest improvements and the stability 
is really very good, certainly more than enough for CW and SSB. Maybe some 
other K2 owners can comment on their digimode experiences.
You didn't mention KX3 in your mail, that is another option worth considering, 
depending on your requirements.

73, Matt VK2RQ

_
From: bs usb 
Sent: vendredi, août 21, 2015 10:41 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S or K3
To:  


I recently posted a poorly crafted question on the subject.  Since then 
I have come to realize that there is no definitive answer.  Too many 
possible configurations.

However, I have learned a lot.

Apparently the biggest improvement comes from the new synthesizer and 
the K3 can also be upgraded to be almost a K3S.  So asking which is 
better from a performance standpoint does not make much sense.

I have not actually done the arithmetic but I am willing to bet there is 
not much cost differential between a K3S and a fully upgraded K3.

I have also discovered that the currently available K2 has undergone 
some significant upgrading as well.  I am beginning to think that a new 
K2 is what would suit me best.


-- 
Frank-K5DKZ

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S or K3

[Bill Frantz]

Before I got my K3 I spent about a year trying to decide between:

  Better radio vs. More fun assembling it

When the XYL approved of the K3 UI and agreed I should buy one that made the 
decision.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/21/15 at 6:41 AM, bs...@k5dkz.com (bs usb) wrote:

> I have also discovered that the currently available K2 has undergone some 
> significant upgrading as 
> well.  I am beginning to think that a new K2 is what would suit me best.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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[Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Bill Breeden]

I can't say enough good things about the built in data modes.  I don't 
think "casual" gives them enough credit for their usefulness while 
chasing DX.  I had 114 DXCC entities confirmed in digital mode (all 
RTTY) when I acquired my first K3 in the fall of 2011.  I'm now listed 
at 215 on the digital mode DXCC list and every one I have added was 
worked from the front panel of my K3 in RTTY mode with no interface or 
software.  I have my call sign (x3) built into the M3 button and a 
generic report built into the M4 button, and the K3 is always ready to 
go in RTTY mode when I am on the air.  That readiness made all the 
difference when I worked 9N1AA in Nepal simplex on 20 meter RTTY for an 
all time new one in 2013.  In another minute the frequency was hopeless 
with callers, but my contact was already in the log.  No super station 
here either, worked him from South Mississippi with 500 watts to a 
ground mounted vertical while listening on a wire.


73,

Bill - NA5DX


*Wayne Burdick*n6kr at 
elecraft.com

/Thu Aug 20 18:05:38 EDT 2015/


The K3S and K3 also draw a lot less current than your average high-performance 
desktop radio, typically 900-1200 mA in RX mode. This can greatly extend 
operating time for lightweight DXpedition, RV, or Field Day stations that are 
battery powered.

A few other features come into play during field operation:

- four one-touch CW/DATA/voice message memory switches with auto-repeat (M1-M4)

- up to 8 programmable front panel switch macros for doing things like "VFO A->B, 
VFO B up 2 kHz, turn on split" (etc.) with a single switch press; these can be 
customized for different kinds of operation

- built in clock/calendar, voltage, and current display (on VFO B)

- built in data modes for casual operation on PSK31 or RTTY without a computer 
(every Field Day, when I get tired of working CW or SSB, I'll prowl the 
20-meter data sub-bands and work stations with the keyer paddle and message 
memories; you can also use the P3/SVGA with a keyboard)

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Elecraft] K3S or K3

[bs usb]

I recently posted a poorly crafted question on the subject.  Since then 
I have come to realize that there is no definitive answer.  Too many 
possible configurations.


However, I have learned a lot.

Apparently the biggest improvement comes from the new synthesizer and 
the K3 can also be upgraded to be almost a K3S.  So asking which is 
better from a performance standpoint does not make much sense.


I have not actually done the arithmetic but I am willing to bet there is 
not much cost differential between a K3S and a fully upgraded K3.


I have also discovered that the currently available K2 has undergone 
some significant upgrading as well.  I am beginning to think that a new 
K2 is what would suit me best.



--
Frank-K5DKZ

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[Elecraft] K3s or K3

[Gee]

I think we can quantify 2X improvements. We could take it literally as in twice 
as sensitive on receive. But that is meaningless because it doesn't add value 
to any radio when your noise floor is at -110 dbm. 

Perhaps we of the SDR era should place more value on features rather than 
enhancements. I can do 99% of what I do with my K3 with my Collins KWM-380. The 
big (2X) difference between the two is features. I would say that the K3 easily 
has twice the features of the Collins so yeah, in that respect, the K3 is 2X 
better. Does it make the K3 more capable than the Collins? No, of course not, 
if I only consider that each transmits a signal that can be heard and can hear 
a signal above that -110 dbm noise floor. 

So, K3 or K3s? I am keeping my K3. And the Collins. 







Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Phil Wheeler]

Frank,

IMO the primary incremental improvement of the K3S 
over the K3 is the new Synth Board.  And that can 
be retrofitted into the K3, as I did with mine 
some months ago.


73, Phil W7OX

On 8/20/15 11:40 AM, bs usb wrote:
I know there was a discussion on this subject.  
I ignored it because I was not interested in 
either radio.


Recent events have me interested in either a K3S 
or K3.


I know the K3 will have to be a used radio 
because new ones are no longer available.  I am 
not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing 
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.


In any case a used K3 can be bought for 
significantly less than a new K3S.  I am not 
convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth 
the extra expense.  For instance, I don't need 
to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.


Of course if the performance does go to 2X over 
a K3, I might be convinced to pay 2X.


So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  
Do we have a 2X improvement in the KS3 over the 
K3 or is it more like 0.1X?




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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Wayne Burdick]

The K3S and K3 also draw a lot less current than your average high-performance 
desktop radio, typically 900-1200 mA in RX mode. This can greatly extend 
operating time for lightweight DXpedition, RV, or Field Day stations that are 
battery powered. 

A few other features come into play during field operation:

- four one-touch CW/DATA/voice message memory switches with auto-repeat (M1-M4)

- up to 8 programmable front panel switch macros for doing things like "VFO 
A->B, VFO B up 2 kHz, turn on split" (etc.) with a single switch press; these 
can be customized for different kinds of operation

- built in clock/calendar, voltage, and current display (on VFO B)

- built in data modes for casual operation on PSK31 or RTTY without a computer 
(every Field Day, when I get tired of working CW or SSB, I'll prowl the 
20-meter data sub-bands and work stations with the keyer paddle and message 
memories; you can also use the P3/SVGA with a keyboard)

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Aug 20, 2015, at 2:34 PM, "Doug Turnbull"  wrote:

> Jer,
> Besides the points already mentioned the K3 will handle very strong
> nearby signals better than most other radios
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Jer,

DXpeditions use K3/Ss for several reasons.
One being the weight - shipping to far off places costs money.
Second, the transmit phase noise is less than other transceivers. That 
allows them to operate CW and SSB on the same bands using stations in 
close physical proximity to each other without interference is possible.


Experiences of many of you at Field Day sites with a variety of 
transceivers can give you examples of mutual interference between SSB 
and CW stations on the same band.  With the K3, those problems just do 
not exist.


Add to that the dynamic range of the K3 and the superb filtering 
provided by the roofing filters and the DSP filtering, and you should 
have your answer - the K3 performs well in crowded band conditions, and 
that includes picking a specific station out of a pileup.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/20/2015 4:13 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

One other question I asked. Why do the majority of DXpeditions use Elecraft
K3/S ? Lots of hardcore contesters?
I'm not saying  isn't good. I'm just asking a question. It's not
because the gear is cheaper. There are lots of cheaper rigs out there.
Jer



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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Doug Turnbull]

Jer,
 Besides the points already mentioned the K3 will handle very strong
nearby signals better than most other radios.   This really becomes
important when everyone in the world is calling you over a few KHz in the
case of CW.   The point about clean output greatly helps in that the
interference from other K3 radios on the same site is reduced.   The problem
is not so severe for most of us even in contests.

  There are many advantages to the K3 which do not need to be
reiterated.   For someone with limited budget the ability to start with a
basic radio and add modules over time is also a big help.   This last point
has nothing to do with DXpeditions.   Time to close.

  73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: 20 August 2015 20:14
To: 'Doug Turnbull'; ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'bs usb';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

One other question I asked. Why do the majority of DXpeditions use Elecraft
K3/S ? Lots of hardcore contesters? 
I'm not saying  isn't good. I'm just asking a question. It's not
because the gear is cheaper. There are lots of cheaper rigs out there.
Jer




-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:22 PM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Jer,
 I agree.   If one were comparing companies then Elecraft comes out on
top full stop - no argument.   We were comparing K3 and K3S so the TS59SG
was a good starting point.   Remember the standard K3 does not have dual
watch; I think the TS590SG does so if one does not have the second receiver
there is a disadvantage in the K3.   However, I am a true blue Elecraft fan
and am most pleased to have the K3.   My only intent was to put things into
perspective - $1800 is mucho money to some of our good friends.   To me as
well but I could spring to it if needed.

I doubt that my K3 will work any DX station which a TS590SG could not
also work.   The differences between K3 and K3S are smaller still.   Then
Elecraft allows us to further narrow the gap with upgrades.   Some features
mean very little to me such as the ability to go below 160M.   Everyone must
make up their own mind but let us not expect a world of difference in
results.

 To twist slightly what you said; "I am a fanatical supporter of a
company which gives fanatical support."We are on the same track.   Oh
what a back slappers club we are.   Cheers and enjoy your Elecraft.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:57
To: 'Doug Turnbull'; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Doug,
   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list. AT
the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty. You
may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
updated.

The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
performance.
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you ca

Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Edward R Cole]

Savings made buying a K3 over K3S may not be that much.  Seems that 
used K3 are going for 85-90% of new cost (depending a lot on 
accessories installed and age, condition, etc.).  If you are then 
going to install the upgrades to make it close to a K3S, it might not 
be that much of a savings.  One of the aspects of the K3 that helped 
my purchase in 2010 was resale value.


I'm guessing that Elecraft decided to drop the K3 as the K3S is what 
most will want and production will be much easier with only one model 
to deal with.  K2 was/is an entirely different radio than the K3 and 
was a true kit for those that wanted that challenge.


But if you can find a K3 offered at 50% of the new cost - snap it up 
as you can resell it for 80% and make a nice profit!  I have never 
seen one offered that low.


73, Ed - KL7UW

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3
Message-ID: <55d61f20.9020...@k5dkz.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I
was not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no
longer available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.

In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new
K3S.  I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra
expense.  For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X
improvement.

Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be
convinced to pay 2X.

So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X
improvement in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?
 


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

To add to the list: if you're standing on Kingman Reef and the tide is 
rising, you probably want a rig that you know well.


I'd bet most who activate rare DXCC locations have K3's at home, for 
many of the reasons stated.


On 8/20/2015 1:34 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Two things come to mind:

1. They are smaller and lighter than other high-end rigs, so easier to 
transport.

2. The transmit signals, especially CW, are much cleaner than other rigs, so 
two operators can transmit on the same band without interfering with each 
other. For example, CW and phone on 20m.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Walter Underwood]

Two things come to mind:

1. They are smaller and lighter than other high-end rigs, so easier to 
transport.

2. The transmit signals, especially CW, are much cleaner than other rigs, so 
two operators can transmit on the same band without interfering with each 
other. For example, CW and phone on 20m. 

These same reasons also make them great field day rigs.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:13 PM,   
wrote:

> One other question I asked. Why do the majority of DXpeditions use Elecraft
> K3/S ? Lots of hardcore contesters? 
> I'm not saying  isn't good. I'm just asking a question. It's not
> because the gear is cheaper. There are lots of cheaper rigs out there.
> Jer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
> Turnbull
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:22 PM
> To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3
> 
> Jer,
> I agree.   If one were comparing companies then Elecraft comes out on
> top full stop - no argument.   We were comparing K3 and K3S so the TS59SG
> was a good starting point.   Remember the standard K3 does not have dual
> watch; I think the TS590SG does so if one does not have the second receiver
> there is a disadvantage in the K3.   However, I am a true blue Elecraft fan
> and am most pleased to have the K3.   My only intent was to put things into
> perspective - $1800 is mucho money to some of our good friends.   To me as
> well but I could spring to it if needed.
> 
>I doubt that my K3 will work any DX station which a TS590SG could not
> also work.   The differences between K3 and K3S are smaller still.   Then
> Elecraft allows us to further narrow the gap with upgrades.   Some features
> mean very little to me such as the ability to go below 160M.   Everyone must
> make up their own mind but let us not expect a world of difference in
> results.
> 
> To twist slightly what you said; "I am a fanatical supporter of a
> company which gives fanatical support."We are on the same track.   Oh
> what a back slappers club we are.   Cheers and enjoy your Elecraft.
> 
>   73 Doug EI2CN
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
> ae...@carolinaheli.com
> Sent: 20 August 2015 18:57
> To: 'Doug Turnbull'; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3
> 
> Doug,
>   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list. AT
> the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
> upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
> made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
> already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
> latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
> reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty. You
> may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
> only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
> your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
> equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
> version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
> the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
> the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
> used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
> updated.
> 
> The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
> fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
> performance.
> Jer
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
> Turnbull
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
> To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3
> 
> Hi Frank,
> I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
> is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
> smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
> bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
> later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
> more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
> If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
> coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At

Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[ae4pb]

One other question I asked. Why do the majority of DXpeditions use Elecraft
K3/S ? Lots of hardcore contesters? 
I'm not saying  isn't good. I'm just asking a question. It's not
because the gear is cheaper. There are lots of cheaper rigs out there.
Jer




-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:22 PM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Jer,
 I agree.   If one were comparing companies then Elecraft comes out on
top full stop - no argument.   We were comparing K3 and K3S so the TS59SG
was a good starting point.   Remember the standard K3 does not have dual
watch; I think the TS590SG does so if one does not have the second receiver
there is a disadvantage in the K3.   However, I am a true blue Elecraft fan
and am most pleased to have the K3.   My only intent was to put things into
perspective - $1800 is mucho money to some of our good friends.   To me as
well but I could spring to it if needed.

I doubt that my K3 will work any DX station which a TS590SG could not
also work.   The differences between K3 and K3S are smaller still.   Then
Elecraft allows us to further narrow the gap with upgrades.   Some features
mean very little to me such as the ability to go below 160M.   Everyone must
make up their own mind but let us not expect a world of difference in
results.

 To twist slightly what you said; "I am a fanatical supporter of a
company which gives fanatical support."We are on the same track.   Oh
what a back slappers club we are.   Cheers and enjoy your Elecraft.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:57
To: 'Doug Turnbull'; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Doug,
   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list. AT
the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty. You
may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
updated.

The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
performance.
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At 71 it will not help
you pick up women either for that matter.

  Please do not take this as being critical in anyway.It is not.
Some day I may purchase a K3S though it is hard to see why when I have two
K3 fully loaded and KX3.   The K3 has the new synthesizer boards - two in my
case because of the second receiver.   Elecraft has been very good in
designing the upgrades so that they can be used in the K3.Yes I would
like the Porsche but will never spend the money on one!   There are better
things such as the K3S.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:41
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was
not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me inter

Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Jerry Moore]

Doug you're such a fan boy!!! And I'll be right there with you after Sept
5th!!

-Original Message-
From: Doug Turnbull [mailto:turnb...@net1.ie] 
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:22 PM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Jer,
 I agree.   If one were comparing companies then Elecraft comes out on
top full stop - no argument.   We were comparing K3 and K3S so the TS59SG
was a good starting point.   Remember the standard K3 does not have dual
watch; I think the TS590SG does so if one does not have the second receiver
there is a disadvantage in the K3.   However, I am a true blue Elecraft
fan
and am most pleased to have the K3.   My only intent was to put things
into
perspective - $1800 is mucho money to some of our good friends.   To me as
well but I could spring to it if needed.

I doubt that my K3 will work any DX station which a TS590SG could not
also work.   The differences between K3 and K3S are smaller still.   Then
Elecraft allows us to further narrow the gap with upgrades.   Some
features
mean very little to me such as the ability to go below 160M.   Everyone
must
make up their own mind but let us not expect a world of difference in
results.

 To twist slightly what you said; "I am a fanatical supporter of a
company which gives fanatical support."We are on the same track.   Oh
what a back slappers club we are.   Cheers and enjoy your Elecraft.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:57
To: 'Doug Turnbull'; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Doug,
   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list.
AT
the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty.
You
may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
updated.

The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
performance.
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and
K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch
card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At 71 it will not help
you pick up women either for that matter.

  Please do not take this as being critical in anyway.It is not.
Some day I may purchase a K3S though it is hard to see why when I have two
K3 fully loaded and KX3.   The K3 has the new synthesizer boards - two in
my
case because of the second receiver.   Elecraft has been very good in
designing the upgrades so that they can be used in the K3.Yes I would
like the Porsche but will never spend the money on one!   There are better
things such as the K3S.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:41
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was
not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer
available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I
believe the K2 is still in production.

In any

Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Doug Turnbull]

Jer,
 I agree.   If one were comparing companies then Elecraft comes out on
top full stop - no argument.   We were comparing K3 and K3S so the TS59SG
was a good starting point.   Remember the standard K3 does not have dual
watch; I think the TS590SG does so if one does not have the second receiver
there is a disadvantage in the K3.   However, I am a true blue Elecraft fan
and am most pleased to have the K3.   My only intent was to put things into
perspective - $1800 is mucho money to some of our good friends.   To me as
well but I could spring to it if needed.

I doubt that my K3 will work any DX station which a TS590SG could not
also work.   The differences between K3 and K3S are smaller still.   Then
Elecraft allows us to further narrow the gap with upgrades.   Some features
mean very little to me such as the ability to go below 160M.   Everyone must
make up their own mind but let us not expect a world of difference in
results.

 To twist slightly what you said; "I am a fanatical supporter of a
company which gives fanatical support."We are on the same track.   Oh
what a back slappers club we are.   Cheers and enjoy your Elecraft.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:57
To: 'Doug Turnbull'; 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Doug,
   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list. AT
the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty. You
may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
updated.

The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
performance.
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At 71 it will not help
you pick up women either for that matter.

  Please do not take this as being critical in anyway.It is not.
Some day I may purchase a K3S though it is hard to see why when I have two
K3 fully loaded and KX3.   The K3 has the new synthesizer boards - two in my
case because of the second receiver.   Elecraft has been very good in
designing the upgrades so that they can be used in the K3.Yes I would
like the Porsche but will never spend the money on one!   There are better
things such as the K3S.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:41
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was
not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer
available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I
believe the K2 is still in production.

In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new K3S.
I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra expense.
For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.

Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be convinced
to pay 2X

Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[ae4pb]

Doug,
   I just went through this process. The Kenwood TS590SG was on my list. AT
the end of the day the deciding factors came down to support and
upgradability. The Elecraft support is fanatical and as developments are
made we have the option to update our radios (for the most part). If you
already own a K3 you can progressively update the features you need to the
latest technology. If you don't own one you can buy the latest version which
reflects all updates and developments to date. You also get a warranty. You
may not need the latest developments OR may be able to get a K3 and update
only the things you need less expensive than a new K3S. I would ask how much
your time is worth? The cost difference between the Kenwood and a likewise
equipped K3S was around $1800 or so. When Kenwood comes out with a new
version the value of the TS590SG will drop like a hot rock. If you look at
the value of a used K3 VS what they were selling for prior to the release of
the K3S has the value dropped by the same margin? From what I've seen the
used K3 rigs are still fetching a premium AND they can be progressively
updated.

The Kenwood is probably just fine for some folks. Personally I want
fanatical support and upgradability in addition to the bleeding edge of
performance.
Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug
Turnbull
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:41 PM
To: 'bs usb'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At 71 it will not help
you pick up women either for that matter.

  Please do not take this as being critical in anyway.It is not.
Some day I may purchase a K3S though it is hard to see why when I have two
K3 fully loaded and KX3.   The K3 has the new synthesizer boards - two in my
case because of the second receiver.   Elecraft has been very good in
designing the upgrades so that they can be used in the K3.Yes I would
like the Porsche but will never spend the money on one!   There are better
things such as the K3S.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:41
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was
not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer
available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I
believe the K2 is still in production.

In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new K3S.
I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra expense.
For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.

Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be convinced
to pay 2X.

So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X improvement
in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?

--
Frank-K5DKZ

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Don Wilhelm]

The K2 is still in production, but it is not the same as the K2 started out.
It too went through a major upgrade at SN 3000 - new boards with all the 
prior mods included as standard, and at that time you could no longer 
buy the older K2 from Elecraft anymore.
Take a look at the FAQ for the K3S and you should see a parallel to the 
K2 upgrade at SN 3000, only the "K2" designation was not changed when 
that happened.  With the K3, Elecraft decided to upgrade the model 
number as well as the insides.
And by the way, Elecraft still offers upgrade kits to bring an older K2 
almost up to the electrical equivalent of a new K2 - the "almost" is 
that there are a few minor items that are not practical to upgrade 
(unless you replace the boards too).
The situation with the K3 is similar.  Elecraft offers (or will soon 
offer) upgraded modules that can be added to a K3 to bring it almost up 
to the same as the K3S.  The new synthesizers are already available as 
is the KXV3B, and they are offering kits to upgrade the KBPF3 to the 
KBPF3A level.


Yes, it is a "Marketing Tactic", but instead of having a negative 
connotation, I believe it is a very positive one which says "We will 
provide you the means to upgrade your older transceivers, and we will do 
that as long as possible and as completely as possible".


Some parts for the Elecraft legacy gear (K2, K1, and KX1) are becoming 
difficult to source, but Elecraft has gone to great effort and expense 
to provide suitable substitutes.  I have personally been involved in 
evaluating some of those part changes, such as the exercise needed when 
the blue wide range 1 to 40 pF trimmer capacitors were not longer 
available.  That event "shook up" the entire legacy product line.  I 
have known other companies to respond by simply dropping support and 
parts supplies.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/20/2015 2:40 PM, bs usb wrote:
I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no 
longer available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing 
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[KENT TRIMBLE]

Dear B.S. . . .

1)  Of course it's a marketing tactic.  Businesses stay solvent 
/because/ of marketing tactics.  What else is new and why be concerned 
about it?


2)  The K2 is still in production because it's an entirely different 
radio requiring building skills rather than assembly skills.  That 
appeals to some hams.


3)  The K3S is an enhanced version of the K3.  Only you, and not the 
reflector, can decide whether it meets your needs and fits your wallet.


4)  How you would quantify "2x" is beyond me.  Two handles instead of one?

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 8/20/2015 1:40 PM, bs usb wrote:
I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I 
was not interested in either radio.


Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no 
longer available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing 
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.


In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new 
K3S.  I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the 
extra expense.  For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X 
improvement.


Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be 
convinced to pay 2X.


So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X 
improvement in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?




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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Doug Turnbull]

Hi Frank,
 I suspect the performance difference between the Kenwood TS590SG and K3
is at most 10%.   The performance difference between the K3S and K3 is
smaller still and you can upgrade the K3.   Perhaps you do not care about
bands lower than 160M.So purchase a K3 and maybe add the new synch card
later.   If you want the best of the best then purchase a K3S and pay much
more.   The used price of the K3 is no doubt dropping so it is good value.
If you can afford the Porsche then go for it but it will not get you to the
coffee shop any sooner unless you break the law.   At 71 it will not help
you pick up women either for that matter.

  Please do not take this as being critical in anyway.It is not.
Some day I may purchase a K3S though it is hard to see why when I have two
K3 fully loaded and KX3.   The K3 has the new synthesizer boards - two in my
case because of the second receiver.   Elecraft has been very good in
designing the upgrades so that they can be used in the K3.Yes I would
like the Porsche but will never spend the money on one!   There are better
things such as the K3S.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: 20 August 2015 18:41
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I 
was not interested in either radio.

Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no 
longer available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing 
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.

In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new 
K3S.  I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra 
expense.  For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X 
improvement.

Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be 
convinced to pay 2X.

So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X 
improvement in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?

-- 
Frank-K5DKZ

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Walter Underwood]

Start here to see the new K3S features and which of them can be retrofitted to 
a K3.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3S-FAQ%20rev%20C5%20customer.pdf

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Aug 20, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Nr4c  wrote:

> First, ever tried to buy a  Brand New just made 2008 automobile or  
> refrigerator or (you name the product) in 2015?  It's not marketing, it's 
> just business.  The radio is different.  New Main RF board, now 4 layers 
> instead of 2, so should be quieter.  Various "bodges" and mods have been 
> built-in to the PCB (prob replaced by a whole new series of mods).  There is 
> a new one-piece bezel on the display (with an index pointer,: don't ask what 
> for).
> 
> Now, what is all this "2X" about.  Is this an indicator of new means 2 times 
> the price of the old one.  That's just not true.  Yes the price is a little 
> higher but the design is almost 8 years newer, and the "NEW" KXV3B has two 
> preamps for 12, 10, and 6 meters that were not there before and it is 
> included in the price (was around $140 I think).  So I don't think the price 
> is all that out of line.
> 
> Now if you want the latest, it is available.  But you can save some money by 
> building a kit.  Start simple and add as you find the need and cash.
> 
> But, there are some good deals on used K3 radios out there and they are still 
> very good radios.
> 
> However if you are considering buying used and upgrading with some of the new 
> modules developed for the K3S, compare the cost.  The used rig you buy may 
> not have the features you want, more money here.  And the new modules cost 
> money as well.  I think you can almost buy the kit K3S for about the same as 
> a K3 plus the mods and you will have to install the mods yourself, when they 
> are available.
> 
> I bit the bullet and sold my KX3 system and bought a K3S and kept my K3 for 
> portable use.
> 
> I'm glad I did what I did.  I really like the "S". I think you will too.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ...bc nr4c
> 
> 
>> On Aug 20, 2015, at 2:40 PM, bs usb  wrote:
>> 
>> I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was 
>> not interested in either radio.
>> 
>> Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.
>> 
>> I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer 
>> available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I 
>> believe the K2 is still in production.
>> 
>> In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new K3S.  
>> I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra expense.  
>> For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.
>> 
>> Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be convinced 
>> to pay 2X.
>> 
>> So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X improvement 
>> in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Frank-K5DKZ
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Nr4c]

First, ever tried to buy a  Brand New just made 2008 automobile or  
refrigerator or (you name the product) in 2015?  It's not marketing, it's just 
business.  The radio is different.  New Main RF board, now 4 layers instead of 
2, so should be quieter.  Various "bodges" and mods have been built-in to the 
PCB (prob replaced by a whole new series of mods).  There is a new one-piece 
bezel on the display (with an index pointer,: don't ask what for).

Now, what is all this "2X" about.  Is this an indicator of new means 2 times 
the price of the old one.  That's just not true.  Yes the price is a little 
higher but the design is almost 8 years newer, and the "NEW" KXV3B has two 
preamps for 12, 10, and 6 meters that were not there before and it is included 
in the price (was around $140 I think).  So I don't think the price is all that 
out of line.

Now if you want the latest, it is available.  But you can save some money by 
building a kit.  Start simple and add as you find the need and cash.

But, there are some good deals on used K3 radios out there and they are still 
very good radios.

However if you are considering buying used and upgrading with some of the new 
modules developed for the K3S, compare the cost.  The used rig you buy may not 
have the features you want, more money here.  And the new modules cost money as 
well.  I think you can almost buy the kit K3S for about the same as a K3 plus 
the mods and you will have to install the mods yourself, when they are 
available.

I bit the bullet and sold my KX3 system and bought a K3S and kept my K3 for 
portable use.

I'm glad I did what I did.  I really like the "S". I think you will too.

Sent from my iPad
...bc nr4c


> On Aug 20, 2015, at 2:40 PM, bs usb  wrote:
> 
> I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was 
> not interested in either radio.
> 
> Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.
> 
> I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer 
> available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I 
> believe the K2 is still in production.
> 
> In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new K3S.  I 
> am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra expense.  
> For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.
> 
> Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be convinced to 
> pay 2X.
> 
> So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X improvement in 
> the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?
> 
> -- 
> Frank-K5DKZ
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[Phil Wheeler]

I think "improvement" is a very subjective term :-)

Phil -- Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Aug 20, 2015, at 11:40, bs usb  wrote:
> 
> I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I was 
> not interested in either radio.
> 
> Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.
> 
> I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no longer 
> available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing tactic.  I 
> believe the K2 is still in production.
> 
> In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new K3S.  I 
> am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra expense.  
> For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X improvement.
> 
> Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be convinced to 
> pay 2X.
> 
> So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X improvement in 
> the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?
> 
> -- 
> Frank-K5DKZ
> 
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[Elecraft] K3S OR K3

[bs usb]

I know there was a discussion on this subject.  I ignored it because I 
was not interested in either radio.


Recent events have me interested in either a K3S or K3.

I know the K3 will have to be a used radio because new ones are no 
longer available.  I am not sure why that is.  Sounds like a marketing 
tactic.  I believe the K2 is still in production.


In any case a used K3 can be bought for significantly less than a new 
K3S.  I am not convinced that the K3S 'improvements' are worth the extra 
expense.  For instance, I don't need to be paying 2X for a 0.1X 
improvement.


Of course if the performance does go to 2X over a K3, I might be 
convinced to pay 2X.


So what was the conclusion of the discussion?  Do we have a 2X 
improvement in the KS3 over the K3 or is it more like 0.1X?


--
Frank-K5DKZ

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