subject:"\[Elecraft\] KSYN3A"

In response to a gazillion questions:

* * *

Q:  What is involved in upgrading from the KSYN3 to the KSYN3A?

A:  The KSYN3A plugs into the same connectors as the KSYN3s for the main and 
sub synthesizers. There are minor differences in cable routing that are covered 
in the accompanying installation instructions. No user calibration is required 
for the KSYN3A, simplifying the installation process. Version 5.10 or later K3 
firmware is required (presently available on our web site as a beta release).


Q:  Will the new synthesizer module be included in future orders of the KRX3 
sub receiver?

A:  Yes. But we also have limited quantities of the original synthesizer boards 
for those with existing K3s who wish to add a KRX3 but not upgrade the synth. 
Questions on specific orders should go to sa...@elecraft.com.


Q:  What is the approximate 2-kHz dynamic range (IMDDR3) of the K3 when using 
the new synthesizer?

A:  Our tests show in excess of 105 dB with the narrowest filters, though there 
are many factors, and this should be considered approximate. (A very robust 
test setup is required to make these measurements.) A third party has obtained 
similar results, but they have not published them yet. When they do, we will 
update this FAQ.


Q:  How much lower is the KSYN3A's phase noise than that of the original KSYN3? 
How does this affect signals?

A:  At an offset of 2 kHz, the KSYN3A's phase noise is typically 15 to 20 dB 
lower on a given band. Generally speaking, this means a smaller increase in the 
noise floor in receive mode in the presence of very strong close-in signals. 
The limiting factor would then be how clean everyone else's signals are. Your 
own transmit signal will be cleaner when using the KSYN3A, though the K3 
already has one of the cleanest transmitters available, accounting for its 
popularity with DXpeditions and multi-transmitter contest stations.


Q:  What is the K3's 100-490 kHz receive sensitivity? What signals would I find 
in this range?

A:  With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90 dBm at 250 
kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the receiver will gradually 
become less sensitive as you go lower in frequency due to band-pass filter 
rolloff (in the KBPF3, which is required for operation below 160 meters). These 
tests were made with the signal routed through the RX ANT IN or XVTR IN jacks 
on the KXV3 option module. The preamp is not effective in this range and must 
be turned off. A sub receiver (KRX3) fitted with a KBPF3 should have similar 
performance, whether the signal is obtained from the main path (KXV3) or from 
the sub's AUX RF input. 

As for signals: there's the 600-meter band (more on that below), a large number 
of commercial CW beacons (for example, see www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm), and 
other interesting phenomena. We've just begun to explore it ourselves!


Q:  Will I notice any change in performance if I upgrade to the KSYN3A? 

A:  First there's the obvious -- the ability to tune the VFOs much lower in 
frequency. If you're a high-speed CW operator, you should be able to hear an 
improvement in CW element timing at high code speeds, as well as somewhat 
faster receive recovery. The dynamic range of the K3 was already excellent, and 
its phase noise very low, so you might notice the additional improvement in 
these parameters only in very difficult signal conditions. 


Q:  How does the new synth affect CW operation?

A:  The KSYN3A switches faster than the KSYN3, which allows us to more 
precisely control CW timing. This means less jitter (timing variation) at 
high CW speeds. Many CW operators who had been using QRQ mode (CONFIG:CW 
QRQ=ON) for CW in the 35-60 WPM range will now be able to use normal CW mode 
(CW QRQ=OFF), meaning they no longer give up RIT and SPLIT when using fast CW. 
Receive recover times also improve. Note that we recently introduced a 
variation on CW break-in signal processing called NEW QSK (selected by 
tapping '3' in the CW WGHT menu entry). This eliminates audio T/R artifacts 
heard with the original algorithm (OLD QSK), at the expense of some slowing 
of receive recovery (by purging the DSP's pipeline). Installing a KSYN3A 
speeds up receive recovery for both the OLD and NEW QSK settings.


Q:  What is required to use the 600-meter band? 

A:  This band is available in some countries, often on an experimental basis. 
Specific restrictions may apply. A K3 fitted with a KSYN3A, as well as a KXV3 
and KBPF3, can receive signals on this band, and can put out about 1 milliwatt 
of transmit power. An external amplifier will be needed, connected to the XVTR 
OUT jack. At present we don't have information on such amplifiers. You can also 
get on this band using an up-conversion transverter whose output is on a low HF 
band (also not presently supplied by Elecraft). For a general introduction to 
the 600-meter band, see:

   wikipedia.org/wiki/600-meter_amateur_radio_band


Q:  Can a transverter

Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

2015-02-13 Thread Eric NO3M

What is the passband of the filtering engaged in the KBPF3 when 
operating at 630M?  The concern at this band in many locations is BCB 
intermod, and generally an LPF is used in the RX chain.  Is it not of 
concern based on on-air tests, perhaps KBPF3 is on the table for an 
upgrade, or an outbound LPF recommended?


73 Eric NO3M (experimental 630M license: WG2XJM)

On 02/13/2015 01:27 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:


Q:  What is the K3's 100-490 kHz receive sensitivity? What signals would I find 
in this range?

A:  With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90 dBm at 250 
kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the receiver will gradually 
become less sensitive as you go lower in frequency due to band-pass filter 
rolloff (in the KBPF3, which is required for operation below 160 meters). These 
tests were made with the signal routed through the RX ANT IN or XVTR IN jacks 
on the KXV3 option module. The preamp is not effective in this range and must 
be turned off. A sub receiver (KRX3) fitted with a KBPF3 should have similar 
performance, whether the signal is obtained from the main path (KXV3) or from 
the sub's AUX RF input.




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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

2015-02-13 Thread Jim Brown


On Fri,2/13/2015 10:27 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The limiting factor would then be how clean everyone else's signals are.


And in the real world, this is the limiting factor.  In my real world, 
it's an IC7600 with a legal limit amp ten miles away.



Your own transmit signal will be cleaner when using the KSYN3A, though the K3 
already has one of the cleanest transmitters available,


Yes. While I've seen statements (I hate the word claim in this kind of 
sentence, since it implies that the person making the statement is a 
liar) that the latest Flex series radios are as clean or cleaner, I've 
not seen ARRL measurements to confirm that.  I suspect that part of that 
is work in the ARRL Lab with new test equipment capable of testing 
radios with improved dynamic range on TX.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

Both synthesizers must be of the same type.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 13, 2015, at 12:04 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote:

 Apparently to save $200 :-)
 
 In this vein, I wonder what would happen if you updated the main RX but left 
 the sub RX as is? Question for Wayne, I guess.
 
 Hypothetical in my case: I have only one functional ear, so no sub RX. But my 
 KSYN3A should arrive late next week.
 
 Phil W7OX
 
 On 2/13/15 11:46 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
 Why remove it?
 The sub receiver is very nice
 
 
   From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
  To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
  Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save 
 $200 bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second 
 receivers on eBay.
 
 R Thorpe K6CG
 
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[Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Richard Thorpe

The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200 
bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second receivers on 
eBay.

R Thorpe K6CG
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

The KBPF3's lowest-frequency filter has a nominal passband of 0.5-2 MHz. The 
rolloff is not particularly steep, but this is the reason that the MDS at 250 
kHz is -90 dBm, while it's -125 dBm at 450 kHz.

Intermod should rarely be a factor because of the K3's very robust front end.

Those living practically on top of an AM broadcast station typically have been 
through this drill already and have notch filters. If not, we can design one 
for you (you get to build it, though :)

Wayne
N6KR


On Feb 13, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Eric NO3M n...@no3m.net wrote:

 What is the passband of the filtering engaged in the KBPF3 when operating at 
 630M?  The concern at this band in many locations is BCB intermod, and 
 generally an LPF is used in the RX chain.  Is it not of concern based on 
 on-air tests, perhaps KBPF3 is on the table for an upgrade, or an outbound 
 LPF recommended?
 
 73 Eric NO3M (experimental 630M license: WG2XJM)
 
 On 02/13/2015 01:27 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
 
 Q:  What is the K3's 100-490 kHz receive sensitivity? What signals would I 
 find in this range?
 
 A:  With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90 dBm at 
 250 kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the receiver will 
 gradually become less sensitive as you go lower in frequency due to 
 band-pass filter rolloff (in the KBPF3, which is required for operation 
 below 160 meters). These tests were made with the signal routed through the 
 RX ANT IN or XVTR IN jacks on the KXV3 option module. The preamp is not 
 effective in this range and must be turned off. A sub receiver (KRX3) fitted 
 with a KBPF3 should have similar performance, whether the signal is obtained 
 from the main path (KXV3) or from the sub's AUX RF input.
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

Another interesting issue regarding the Flex 6xxx series (and radios with a 
similar direct-digital-sampling RF architecture) is that A/D Limit descriptor 
in the blocking dynamic range column in Sherwood's chart. An ADC limit is a 
hard one; it does not gracefully soft-limit in the presence of strong signals, 
like an amplifier stage. Multiple signals in the passband can cause additive 
peaks that hit this ADC limit sooner, causing ghost signals (IMD) to appear. 
3-tone (or higher) testing may be needed to quantify the effect of the ADC 
limit in DDC receivers. Perhaps A/D Limit can then be converted into a useful 
number.

Wayne
N6KR



On Feb 13, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:

 
 On 2015-02-13 2:37 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
 And in the real world, this is the limiting factor. In my real
 world, it's an IC7600 with a legal limit amp ten miles away.
 
 Consider yourself lucky.  In my real world, it's an IC-746 and legal
 limit amp 0.65 miles away!
 
 Yes. While I've seen statements (I hate the word claim in this kind
 of sentence, since it implies that the person making the statement is
 a liar) that the latest Flex series radios are as clean or cleaner,
 I've not seen ARRL measurements to confirm that.
 
 No, but one can infer that from the Receiver data published by Sherwood
 on the Flex 6700 (receive LO Noise = 145 dBc/Hz).  Given the design of
 those radios the phase noise is generally clock jitter and would be
 reciprocal in transmit.
 
 73,
 
  ... Joe, W4TV
 
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft

Why remove it?
The sub receiver is very nice


  From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
 To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
   
The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200 
bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second receivers on 
eBay.

R Thorpe K6CG
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

Wayne,

Would it make sense to update the KBPF3 to replace (or convert) the
0.5 - 2 MHz BPF to a 2 MHz LPF? Perhaps by removing L1/L2, changing
L4/L5 to 2.0 uH, removing C6 and connecting a new inductor (~10 uH)
between pins 2/7 of K2?

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-13 1:27 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

In response to a gazillion questions:

* * *

Q: What is involved in upgrading from the KSYN3 to the KSYN3A?

A: The KSYN3A plugs into the same connectors as the KSYN3s for the main and
sub synthesizers. There are minor differences in cable routing that are covered
in the accompanying installation instructions. No user calibration is required
for the KSYN3A, simplifying the installation process. Version 5.10 or later K3
firmware is required (presently available on our web site as a beta release).

Q: Will the new synthesizer module be included in future orders of the KRX3
sub receiver?

A: Yes. But we also have limited quantities of the original synthesizer boards
for those with existing K3s who wish to add a KRX3 but not upgrade the synth.
Questions on specific orders should go to sa...@elecraft.com.

Q: What is the approximate 2-kHz dynamic range (IMDDR3) of the K3 when using
the new synthesizer?

A: Our tests show in excess of 105 dB with the narrowest filters, though there
are many factors, and this should be considered approximate. (A very robust
test setup is required to make these measurements.) A third party has obtained
similar results, but they have not published them yet. When they do, we will
update this FAQ.

Q: How much lower is the KSYN3A's phase noise than that of the original KSYN3?
How does this affect signals?

A: At an offset of 2 kHz, the KSYN3A's phase noise is typically 15 to 20 dB
lower on a given band. Generally speaking, this means a smaller increase in the
noise floor in receive mode in the presence of very strong close-in signals.
The limiting factor would then be how clean everyone else's signals are. Your
own transmit signal will be cleaner when using the KSYN3A, though the K3
already has one of the cleanest transmitters available, accounting for its
popularity with DXpeditions and multi-transmitter contest stations.

Q: What is the K3's 100-490 kHz receive sensitivity? What signals would I find
in this range?

A: With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90 dBm at 250
kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the receiver will gradually
become less sensitive as you go lower in frequency due to band-pass filter
rolloff (in the KBPF3, which is required for operation below 160 meters). These
tests were made with the signal routed through the RX ANT IN or XVTR IN jacks
on the KXV3 option module. The preamp is not effective in this range and must
be turned off. A sub receiver (KRX3) fitted with a KBPF3 should have similar
performance, whether the signal is obtained from the main path (KXV3) or from
the sub's AUX RF input.

As for signals: there's the 600-meter band (more on that below), a large number
of commercial CW beacons (for example, see www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm), and
other interesting phenomena. We've just begun to explore it ourselves!

Q: Will I notice any change in performance if I upgrade to the KSYN3A?

A: First there's the obvious -- the ability to tune the VFOs much lower in
frequency. If you're a high-speed CW operator, you should be able to hear an
improvement in CW element timing at high code speeds, as well as somewhat
faster receive recovery. The dynamic range of the K3 was already excellent, and
its phase noise very low, so you might notice the additional improvement in
these parameters only in very difficult signal conditions.

Q: How does the new synth affect CW operation?

A: The KSYN3A switches faster than the KSYN3, which allows us to more precisely control CW timing. This means less
jitter (timing variation) at high CW speeds. Many CW operators who had been using QRQ mode (CONFIG:CW
QRQ=ON) for CW in the 35-60 WPM range will now be able to use normal CW mode (CW QRQ=OFF), meaning they no longer give up RIT and
SPLIT when using fast CW. Receive recover times also improve. Note that we recently introduced a variation on CW break-in signal
processing called NEW QSK (selected by tapping '3' in the CW WGHT menu entry). This eliminates audio T/R artifacts
heard with the original algorithm (OLD QSK), at the expense of some slowing of receive recovery (by purging the DSP's
pipeline). Installing a KSYN3A speeds up receive recovery for both the OLD and NEW QSK settings.

Q: What is required to use the 600-meter band?

A: This band is available in some countries, often

Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A


Apparently to save $200 :-)

In this vein, I wonder what would happen if you 
updated the main RX but left the sub RX as is? 
Question for Wayne, I guess.


Hypothetical in my case: I have only one 
functional ear, so no sub RX. But my KSYN3A should 
arrive late next week.


Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 11:46 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

Why remove it?
The sub receiver is very nice


   From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
  To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
  Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200 bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second receivers on eBay.


R Thorpe K6CG


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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ

2015-02-13 Thread Edward R Cole


A couple comments to add to Wayne's:

1.  How many of you have measured the noise floor below 500-KHz?  I 
have used my K3/10 and a SDR-IQ for receiving the 600m band for three 
years.  The SDR-IQ display is in dBm and very accurate.  The receiver 
MDS is -130 to -132 dBm at 500-KHz.  The lowest noise floor I see 
with my inverted-L antenna is -115 dBm.  Often it is -100 or even -90 dBm.


So reality is that sky noise and local noise environment will be your 
receiving limit vs the MDS of the K3.  Those of you who operate on 
160m will recognize what I am saying.  I have not gone below 300-KHz 
so do not know what the noise looks like down there. There is a RGPS 
beacon 3-miles from my house that comes in at -30dBm on 310-KHz.  It 
would be a good propagation beacon for anyone that wants to work me 
on 600m (currently my antenna is down).


Now if you own acreage to put up a Beverage antenna then you may get 
noise low enough to utilize the MDS.  Then there is always adding a 
low noise preamp to improve MDS.


2. Many of us in the ARRL Experimental Group or with experimental 
licenses for operating on 600m utilize bandpass filters to reduce BC 
interference.  I have a Clifton Labs Z10020 Rejection Filter 
(540-1700 KHz) which is limited to 100mw if you plan to transmit thru 
it.  I use it only for receiving.  An Anchorage station (65mi NE) on 
550-KHz normally is seen at -50 dBm, drops into the noise with the 
filter and the broad noise sidebands disappear.

http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45

From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
To: Eric NO3M n...@no3m.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ
Message-ID: c8964c10-8f25-4626-a216-598b87ada...@elecraft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The KBPF3's lowest-frequency filter has a nominal passband of 0.5-2 
MHz. The rolloff is not particularly steep, but this is the reason 
that the MDS at 250 kHz is -90 dBm, while it's -125 dBm at 450 kHz.


Intermod should rarely be a factor because of the K3's very robust front end.

Those living practically on top of an AM broadcast station typically 
have been through this drill already and have notch filters. If not, 
we can design one for you (you get to build it, though :)


Wayne
N6KR


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Kits made by KL7UW
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Edward R Cole

I am copying a reply I made on the 600m e-mail reflector as I think 
it may answer some questions how the K3 is used down below 500-KHz:

To: Jim Miller jtmille...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [600MRG] [Elecraft] Upgraded K3 synthesizer module now 
available: The KSYN3A

Jim,

The K3 operates all modes in TEST: 
CW/SSB/AM/FM/DATA/RTTY/packet/psk-msk, etc.  I can run psk-31, JT65, 
WSPR using DATA-A.  Any soundcard sw runs normally with the K3.  TEST 
mode essentially is placing the K3 into transverter mode with 
inputs/outputs available at the transverter connectors or Rx ANT.  It 
uses the general coverage filter to operate outside normal ham bands.

Not sure what you mean by external mixing.

You just PRESS-HOLD the MODE down button to get into TEST and operate 
the K3 normally.  It just lowers in power to mw and routes thru the 
transverter interface module KXV3.  Look on page 75 at the K3 block 
diagram at the upper right corner which shows the KXV3.  Right below 
is shows the BP filters and the 10w PA/Driver and final are bypassed 
to the KXV3.  That is all the TEST mode does.

The new SYNTH board allows operation lower in frequency.  The gen 
coverage BP filter KBPF3 nominally covers 500-KHz to 30 
MHz.  Performance drops off above 30 though the radio will tune to 32 
MHz in the transverter mode.  I assume there is no change in the 
KBPF3 so it will also drop off below 500-KHz but apparently not 
significantly until below 450-KHz.

This is a BIG WIN for Elecraft to enter the 600m Ham Band when it 
gets approved.  They can already sell to countries that have created 
the 600m ham band.

And I have no motivation to build a transverter for 600m, now.  The 
prototype pc boards would run costs up to at least $400 for the 
initial transverter.  Instead I get two new synth boards and install 
them in less than 30-min.  The bonus is the lowered phase noise for 
weak-signal work.

Those Elecraft guys are pretty crafty-smart.

73, Ed

At 08:47 AM 2/13/2015, Jim Miller wrote:
What modes are available if using Test? Does Test at least provide 
CW keyed out?

Seems like sound card modes like JT65 or WSPR would still require 
external mixing before the amp.

73

Jim ab3cv

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Kits made by KL7UW
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Bill Frantz

One thing I couldn't see from the Elecraft web site: I have a 
single receiver K3. If I install the KSYN3A, and later add a 
second receiver, which synth do I get in that second receiver.


One advantage of the K3 is its Barbie Doll (tm) feature. I can 
add pieces slowly to the radio and stay under the worst of my 
YL/budget master/KI6SLX's radar screen. It may take several 
years, but it is the best way for me to end up with a 
top-of-the-line radio.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread bs usb

I think the idea is to remove the sub receiver, sell it, and use the 
proceeds to offset the cost of another option.


You see lots of second receivers on the bay because lots of people have 
the same idea.  Everyone selling reduces the people buying because the 
are all coming out of the same pool of users.  I mean who is going to 
want an Elecraft sub receiver if they don't have Elecraft equipment?


So the 'savings' premis, although logical at first blush, is actually 
seriously flawed.  First off, even if you do find a buyer, the selling 
price is going to be far less than you payed for it because it is used 
and unwanted.  Then, if you later decide to add the sub receiver back, 
you end up possibly paying full price if you have to go back to the 
manufacturer.  That is not a savings.


Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

Why remove it?
The sub receiver is very nice


   From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
  To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
  Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200 bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second receivers on eBay.


R Thorpe K6CG
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ



On 2015-02-13 2:37 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

And in the real world, this is the limiting factor. In my real
world, it's an IC7600 with a legal limit amp ten miles away.


Consider yourself lucky.  In my real world, it's an IC-746 and legal
limit amp 0.65 miles away!


Yes. While I've seen statements (I hate the word claim in this kind
of sentence, since it implies that the person making the statement is
a liar) that the latest Flex series radios are as clean or cleaner,
I've not seen ARRL measurements to confirm that.


No, but one can infer that from the Receiver data published by Sherwood
on the Flex 6700 (receive LO Noise = 145 dBc/Hz).  Given the design of
those radios the phase noise is generally clock jitter and would be
reciprocal in transmit.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Rick WA6NHC

Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a supply for those simple 
wanting to add the KXR3 without doing the upgrade.  Since they won't be 
making more and hams are generically cheap, it will extend the K3 life 
for those without a toy budget.


Best to ask Wayne if they can manage that first however...  Maybe a 
coupon for a future purchase.


I'll likely get a pair to keep my K3 current... along with the SVGA 
upgrade for the P3, I'm tired of squinting, this K1N showed me I needed 
to see more.


Rick wa6nhc

On 2/13/2015 1:46 PM, VE3GNO Daniel via Elecraft wrote:

Once I got the new synt's here I can donate my old ones back to elecraft just 
in case they are running out of old ones...


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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Edward R Cole


Doug,

JT-65, like all weak-signal modes, greatly benefits from low 
phase-noise in a receiver (typically from the LO).
I operate 2m-eme with JT65 and will be very interested to see if I 
can see improvement with the new synth.


Nor will I part with my sub-rcvr as its integral to my dual-polarity 
adaptive reception using JT65.  I use diversity reception with 
receivers connected to different polarities.  The sw that provides 
adaptive reception is MAP65.


73, Ed - KL7UW

From: Doug Turnbull turnb...@net1.ie
To: 'Richard Thorpe' kisso...@gmail.com,'Elecraft List'
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
Message-ID: 685CC641927645DDA5FFB8A3A5128C80@DOUG1
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

Dear OMs,
In no way would I part with my sub-receiver.
==snip===
   A few interesting questions have been asked - is there any advantage
for JT-65 with the new board?
=snip

 73 Doug EI2CN


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Kits made by KL7UW
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A


On Feb 13, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote:

 One thing I couldn't see from the Elecraft web site: I have a single receiver 
 K3. If I install the KSYN3A, and later add a second receiver, which synth do 
 I get in that second receiver.

You'll get the new synth with the KRX3 in this case. And there's no change in 
price for the KRX3 option.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

I find it had to regard Elecraft-owning hams as 
cheap, Rick :-)


Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 2:49 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a 
supply for those simple wanting to add the KXR3 
without doing the upgrade.  Since they won't be 
making more and hams are generically cheap


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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Bill NY9H


now we need a neat application for the old synth card
seems that there will be a few thousand available

What cool thing could we build in which to nest the olds synth card 

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread VE3GNO Daniel via Elecraft

Once I got the new synt's here I can donate my old ones back to elecraft just 
in case they are running out of old ones...
vy 73 de VE3GNO Daniel
  From: Bill NY9H n...@arrl.net
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 4:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
   
now we need a neat application for the old synth card
seems that there will be a few thousand available

What cool thing could we build in which to nest the olds synth card 

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A FAQ




On 2015-02-13 3:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Another interesting issue regarding the Flex 6xxx series (and radios
with a similar direct-digital-sampling RF architecture) is that A/D
Limit descriptor in the blocking dynamic range column in Sherwood's
chart. An ADC limit is a hard one; it does not gracefully soft-limit
in the presence of strong signals, like an amplifier stage. Multiple
signals in the passband can cause additive peaks that hit this ADC
limit sooner, causing ghost signals (IMD) to appear. 3-tone (or
higher) testing may be needed to quantify the effect of the ADC limit
in DDC receivers. Perhaps A/D Limit can then be converted into a
useful number.


In an e-mail exchange with Chen, W7AY some months ago he indicated the
number of tones seems to be somewhere around 10.  However, I'm sure
that is fuzzy and depends a lot on the frequency relationship and if
they are all of similar strength or there is a wide dynamic range.

Perhaps the best way to test dynamic range in direct digital sampling
receivers is noise power testing.  Run a notched noise signal of a
known level into the DDS receiver and increase the noise power until
the noise floor in the notch increases 1 dB.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV





Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Doug Turnbull

Dear OMs,
In no way would I part with my sub-receiver.   I operate 160M and find
diversity reception a considerable help.I also like the ability to tune
the second receiver through a pile up extending 20KhZ and sometimes offset
nearly 100 KHz.

 The sub-receiver is not needed by most people and I would not wish to
over specify some ones radio - the K3 is affordable in the basic
configuration and an excellent performer.   Modular design allows one to
update and upgrade - which is just fine.

  Like a few other fortunate souls I have two K3s and if the new KSYN3A
is enough of an advance then I will first upgrade one radio then the other.


   A few interesting questions have been asked - is there any advantage
for JT-65 with the new board?Sadly though CW is my mode; my speed is not
at 35 WPM for rag chews.   Maybe at times 30 WPM but not 35 WPM plus.The
improvements may prove useful for CW contests - this will convince me.   As
pointed out previously SSB signals are so lousy from many radios that the
improved receiver performance might not be noticed.   So I am waiting to see
what other report but I am keen.

   I do not want a K4 and it delights me to see this enlightened
attitude by Elecraft to improving and extending product life.   This is not
the norm.   An old Yankee maxim is, Use it up; Fix it up; Make do; Do
without Elecraft should appeal to the six North Eastern States.

 73 Doug EI2CN  

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Richard Thorpe
Sent: 13 February 2015 19:15
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save
$200 bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second
receivers on eBay.

R Thorpe K6CG
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft

As I see it for those who want the extra capabilities will pay it.The sell as 
sub receiver to pay for a 200 option seems a bit haste.

The K3 is just as capable as it was yesterday, this is merely adding to it.
If money is that tight I'd rather just keep the Sub receiver as it is more 
useful

  From: bs usb bs...@k5dkz.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 3:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

I think the idea is to remove the sub receiver, sell it, and use the 
proceeds to offset the cost of another option.

You see lots of second receivers on the bay because lots of people have 
the same idea.  Everyone selling reduces the people buying because the 
are all coming out of the same pool of users.  I mean who is going to 
want an Elecraft sub receiver if they don't have Elecraft equipment?

So the 'savings' premis, although logical at first blush, is actually 
seriously flawed.  First off, even if you do find a buyer, the selling 
price is going to be far less than you payed for it because it is used 
and unwanted.  Then, if you later decide to add the sub receiver back, 
you end up possibly paying full price if you have to go back to the 
manufacturer.  That is not a savings.

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
 Why remove it?
 The sub receiver is very nice

        From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
  To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
  Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

 The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save 
 $200 bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second 
 receivers on eBay.

 R Thorpe K6CG
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A



On 2/13/15 12:54 PM, Doug Turnbull wrote:

  Like a few other fortunate souls I have two K3s and if the new KSYN3A
is enough of an advance then I will first upgrade one radio then the other.
Good. You can do an A-B test after upgrading one 
of them and give us a full report :-)


Phil W7OX

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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

Yes, that makes sense, Don -- and not so 
pejorative as cheap :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 4:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for 
a transceiver configured to the max, but balk at 
spending $5 for a cable adapter or something 
special of that nature.  Perhaps thrifty is a 
more politically correct term.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/13/2015 6:20 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
I find it hard to regard Elecraft-owning hams 
as cheap, Rick :-)


Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 2:49 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft 
a supply for those simple wanting to add the 
KXR3 without doing the upgrade.  Since they 
won't be making more and hams are generically 
cheap


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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Chris Tate - N6WM

Wow thanks Wayne and Elecraft for another improvement to a legendary rig..  or 
as I told my wife.. I have just had to factor an extra $400 into the monthly 
budget.  ;-).

~C.
N6WM

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne 
Burdick
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 3:20 PM
To: Bill Frantz
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A


On Feb 13, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote:

 One thing I couldn't see from the Elecraft web site: I have a single receiver 
 K3. If I install the KSYN3A, and later add a second receiver, which synth do 
 I get in that second receiver.

You'll get the new synth with the KRX3 in this case. And there's no change in 
price for the KRX3 option.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Nate Bargmann

* On 2015 13 Feb 15:20 -0600, Bill NY9H wrote:
 now we need a neat application for the old synth card
 seems that there will be a few thousand available

Wayne alluded earlier that they were holding some subreceiver kits back
for those interested in fitting one into a K3 with the older synth
board.  Perhaps Elecraft would be interested in a modest trade-in value
for some of those boards.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 

The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true.

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread bs usb


I think you are confusing 'thrifty' and 'stingy'.


Don Wilhelm wrote:
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver 
configured to the max, but balk at spending $5 for a cable adapter or 
something special of that nature.  Perhaps thrifty is a more 
politically correct term.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/13/2015 6:20 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

I find it had to regard Elecraft-owning hams as cheap, Rick :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 2:49 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a supply for those 
simple wanting to add the KXR3 without doing the upgrade.  Since 
they won't be making more and hams are generically cheap




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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Don Wilhelm

Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver 
configured to the max, but balk at spending $5 for a cable adapter or 
something special of that nature.  Perhaps thrifty is a more 
politically correct term.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/13/2015 6:20 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

I find it had to regard Elecraft-owning hams as cheap, Rick :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/13/15 2:49 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a supply for those 
simple wanting to add the KXR3 without doing the upgrade.  Since they 
won't be making more and hams are generically cheap




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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread k6dgw

I know one of those, obviously far better off than we are, who  tips on 
the total less tax in a restaurant.  I decided to buy him lunch.  It is 
what it is, we're all different.


On-topic question:  I'm totally happy with my fairly vanilla K3 [S/N 642 
upgraded a few years ago at Elecraft].  No sub-Rx, 2.7 SSB and 500 Hz 
CW, DVR, and KBPF3.  95% CW, rest RTTY [contests] and SSB [SOTA].  My 
K-line is fairly well installed in the rack, the rear gives new 
meaning to the term wireless, and taking it apart is a bit of a chore. 
 Getting it back together is a bigger chore.


What would I gain from the new Synth?  I have no nearby phase noise 
problems since Jim [WX6V] got a K3, and I think my TX signal is within 
specs.


73,

Fred K6DGW
TDY Bakersfield CA [don't ask why :-)]

On 2015-02-13 16:23, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver
configured to the max, but balk at spending $5 for a cable adapter or
something special of that nature.  Perhaps thrifty is a more
politically correct term.


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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A

2015-02-13 Thread Don Wilhelm


Fred,

See my response to Johnny Siu.  That is the best I can do to explain it 
in layman's terms.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/13/2015 8:03 PM, k6...@foothill.net wrote:
What would I gain from the new Synth?  I have no nearby phase noise 
problems since Jim [WX6V] got a K3, and I think my TX signal is 
within specs.




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Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A