Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Anybody else having issues with non-linear oscillator changes around 40C? I've done the extended temp calibration 3 times (each time takes about 2 hours), and someplace between 38C and 42C the calibration goes crazy. Up to that point as the temperature gradually increases the tone shifts lower. But around that 38-42C spot it start rapidly shifting up in tone and down in tone (frankly all over the place). When you actually use the KX3 it is obvious that there is something bad happening around there because you can hear signals start to wildly drift around in the receiver as the rig temp moves through that range. That makes me think that the values obtained by the calibration process are not accurately reflecting true changes in internal oscillator frequency. I contacted the factory. Their best advice was to do the calibration again but use an electronic heat source (like a 50 ohm dummy load) under the KX3 with a variable power supply running the dummy load to get a more linear temperature increase. I haven't done that yet, but my three prior attempts have had a pretty linear temperature increase (one changing the rig temp about 1C per minute from 15C up to 60C). 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
I noticed something similar last night when doing this. I've not operated since so I don't have any experience with the result. At temp of 45 deg or thereabouts the tone started back up. But it didn't rapidly shift or do anything bizarre, just increased slowly as the temp went to 52 deg. Then I locked in the compensation; have to do RefCal today. I was surprised that the tone didn't just keep going down until temp reached 52 deg. It would be good to know if this is normal or I need to redo the temp comp procedure (hopefully not). 73, Phil w7ox On 3/18/14, 7:37 AM, Bob wrote: Anybody else having issues with non-linear oscillator changes around 40C? I've done the extended temp calibration 3 times (each time takes about 2 hours), and someplace between 38C and 42C the calibration goes crazy. Up to that point as the temperature gradually increases the tone shifts lower. But around that 38-42C spot it start rapidly shifting up in tone and down in tone (frankly all over the place). When you actually use the KX3 it is obvious that there is something bad happening around there because you can hear signals start to wildly drift around in the receiver as the rig temp moves through that range. That makes me think that the values obtained by the calibration process are not accurately reflecting true changes in internal oscillator frequency. I contacted the factory. Their best advice was to do the calibration again but use an electronic heat source (like a 50 ohm dummy load) under the KX3 with a variable power supply running the dummy load to get a more linear temperature increase. I haven't done that yet, but my three prior attempts have had a pretty linear temperature increase (one changing the rig temp about 1C per minute from 15C up to 60C). 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Glad to know I wasn't the only one. In my case the issue around 38 to 42C is a big deal because that is where the PA sits when running JT65. So it makes that mode unusable. If the odd break didn't happen until 52C I'd be all set. And it was definitely hopping all over the place (sometimes rising, other times lowering, and in larger step changes than I was seeing before). I'm not so sure this isn't a problem with the radio locking onto a harmonic of the tone as it shifts lower and lower in pitch. I need to run the test sometime with a scope on the output to see what the signal looks like as gets very low in pitch. Please let us know how it works out when you try it on air. 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Mine didn't do anything so wavering as yours and it changed at a higher temp. So I wouldn't expect to see much effect while operating, since it was at high temps, above 42C. My concern is if the calibration is off. If it was a simple linear fit then it could be. If a table look up or more complex fit then it should still be good at a normal operating temp range. 73, Phil On 3/18/14, 8:18 AM, Bob wrote: Glad to know I wasn't the only one. In my case the issue around 38 to 42C is a big deal because that is where the PA sits when running JT65. So it makes that mode unusable. If the odd break didn't happen until 52C I'd be all set. And it was definitely hopping all over the place (sometimes rising, other times lowering, and in larger step changes than I was seeing before). I'm not so sure this isn't a problem with the radio locking onto a harmonic of the tone as it shifts lower and lower in pitch. I need to run the test sometime with a scope on the output to see what the signal looks like as gets very low in pitch. Please let us know how it works out when you try it on air. 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Also -- I haven't done any digital/data modes with my KX3 as yet, and may not (have a K2/100 and a K3/100 which may be more favorable for that than a barefoot KX3). However, I do have a SignaLink USB with cables for the KX3 so I may eventually use it that way portable if the opportunity arises. I suspect the thermal conditions will stay pretty benign in CW and SSB modes. 73, Phil w7ox On 3/18/14, 9:43 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Mine didn't do anything so wavering as yours and it changed at a higher temp. So I wouldn't expect to see much effect while operating, since it was at high temps, above 42C. My concern is if the calibration is off. If it was a simple linear fit then it could be. If a table look up or more complex fit then it should still be good at a normal operating temp range. 73, Phil On 3/18/14, 8:18 AM, Bob wrote: Glad to know I wasn't the only one. In my case the issue around 38 to 42C is a big deal because that is where the PA sits when running JT65. So it makes that mode unusable. If the odd break didn't happen until 52C I'd be all set. And it was definitely hopping all over the place (sometimes rising, other times lowering, and in larger step changes than I was seeing before). I'm not so sure this isn't a problem with the radio locking onto a harmonic of the tone as it shifts lower and lower in pitch. I need to run the test sometime with a scope on the output to see what the signal looks like as gets very low in pitch. Please let us know how it works out when you try it on air. 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
I have been following this thread with interest. Given our change in living arrangements, from a house with plenty of space for antennas to an apartment with no place for antennas, we are forced to do mobile and portable operation. In that case we can no longer easily operate our K3/P3 and have been considering getting a KX3 instead. This thread causes me to wonder if this would be a good idea since one of the things we would want to do, while operating portable, are various digital modes, including JT65. Is this VFO temperature compensation problem serious enough to make reconsidering the KX3 wise? Thanks, Jack, W6NF/VE4SNA --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
At this point I wouldn't characterize my experience as a concern. So far as I can tell the calibration worked well, though I was surprised to see the tone vs. temp behavior above about 45 deg-C. My impression is that the calibration is done with a table, so such nonlinear behavior should not be an issue, so long as it is repeatable. The post by Bob, WB4SON early today in this thread described some crazy behavior which would concern me. Of more concern in such modes might be the power limitation at higher temps. There is some temperature at which the PA power will be limited. I don't know if that limit is of concern for JT65 operation or not. I know there have been discussions in the Yahoo KX3 group about different ways to add cooling to the KX3 for portable ops -- including fans, larger heat sinks with fins, and in one case leaning a cold cooler against the rig. 73, Phil w7ox On 3/18/14, 11:39 AM, Jack wrote: I have been following this thread with interest. Given our change in living arrangements, from a house with plenty of space for antennas to an apartment with no place for antennas, we are forced to do mobile and portable operation. In that case we can no longer easily operate our K3/P3 and have been considering getting a KX3 instead. This thread causes me to wonder if this would be a good idea since one of the things we would want to do, while operating portable, are various digital modes, including JT65. Is this VFO temperature compensation problem serious enough to make reconsidering the KX3 wise? Thanks, Jack, W6NF/VE4SNA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Having run my KX3 in 40'C ambient temp just for ssb or cw and the odd bit of data and seem high pa temps and the kx3 folding back you absolutely have to consider better/decent cooling if you seeing pa temps consistently at this level. You trying to run at 10W non stop then wind the power levels down? Running at this level with high temps is a bad idea without better cooling. A simple extra external heatsink can be added to the current heatsink plate, with or without fan cooling and that should make a huge difference. Or Use the KX3 at 1-3 W and add a PA. 72 Dom M1KTA On 18/03/2014 19:19, Phil Wheeler wrote: At this point I wouldn't characterize my experience as a concern. So far as I can tell the calibration worked well, though I was surprised to see the tone vs. temp behavior above about 45 deg-C. My impression is that the calibration is done with a table, so such nonlinear behavior should not be an issue, so long as it is repeatable. The post by Bob, WB4SON early today in this thread described some crazy behavior which would concern me. Of more concern in such modes might be the power limitation at higher temps. There is some temperature at which the PA power will be limited. I don't know if that limit is of concern for JT65 operation or not. I know there have been discussions in the Yahoo KX3 group about different ways to add cooling to the KX3 for portable ops -- including fans, larger heat sinks with fins, and in one case leaning a cold cooler against the rig. 73, Phil w7ox On 3/18/14, 11:39 AM, Jack wrote: I have been following this thread with interest. Given our change in living arrangements, from a house with plenty of space for antennas to an apartment with no place for antennas, we are forced to do mobile and portable operation. In that case we can no longer easily operate our K3/P3 and have been considering getting a KX3 instead. This thread causes me to wonder if this would be a good idea since one of the things we would want to do, while operating portable, are various digital modes, including JT65. Is this VFO temperature compensation problem serious enough to make reconsidering the KX3 wise? Thanks, Jack, W6NF/VE4SNA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Reading the document on this, I get the impression that the procedure is done wholly within the KX3, because in the latter post-refrigerator part it says If the KX3 is connected to a PC running KX3 Utility, data will be sent to the Command Tester screen. implying the connection to KX3 Utility is optional. Is connection to a computer required or optional? 73, Phil w7ox __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Optional. 73, Olli Contest, DX radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de Am 18.03.2014 01:49, schrieb Phil Wheeler: Reading the document on this, I get the impression that the procedure is done wholly within the KX3, because in the latter post-refrigerator part it says If the KX3 is connected to a PC running KX3 Utility, data will be sent to the Command Tester screen. implying the connection to KX3 Utility is optional. Is connection to a computer required or optional? 73, Phil w7ox __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Thanks, Olli. Starting it now. 73, Phil On 3/17/14, 5:52 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote: Optional. 73, Olli Contest, DX radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de Am 18.03.2014 01:49, schrieb Phil Wheeler: Reading the document on this, I get the impression that the procedure is done wholly within the KX3, because in the latter post-refrigerator part it says If the KX3 is connected to a PC running KX3 Utility, data will be sent to the Command Tester screen. implying the connection to KX3 Utility is optional. Is connection to a computer required or optional? 73, Phil w7ox __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Done. It does take more than the nominal 30 min -- more like 90-120 min. But it's done. Phil On 3/17/14, 6:36 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Thanks, Olli. Starting it now. 73, Phil On 3/17/14, 5:52 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote: Optional. 73, Olli Contest, DX radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de Am 18.03.2014 01:49, schrieb Phil Wheeler: Reading the document on this, I get the impression that the procedure is done wholly within the KX3, because in the latter post-refrigerator part it says If the KX3 is connected to a PC running KX3 Utility, data will be sent to the Command Tester screen. implying the connection to KX3 Utility is optional. Is connection to a computer required or optional? 73, Phil w7ox __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
And well worth doing too. Drift from 2C to 45C is now less than 5Hz. 73 de David G4DMP On 18 Mar 2014 03:50, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: Done. It does take more than the nominal 30 min -- more like 90-120 min. But it's done. David Pratt __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Extended VFO temperature compensation procedure
Yes, I'm glad I did it. There was no question I would eventually. But 2 deg-C? Did you run a test that low in temp? I think mine went to 17 deg-C when it came out of the cooler. Phil On 3/17/14, 10:05 PM, David Pratt wrote: And well worth doing too. Drift from 2C to 45C is now less than 5Hz. 73 de David G4DMP On 18 Mar 2014 03:50, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: Done. It does take more than the nominal 30 min -- more like 90-120 min. But it's done. David Pratt __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KX3 EXTENDED VFO TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION PROCEDURE
Is this done as part of the factory calibration of assembled units? 73 - Mike WA8BXN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 EXTENDED VFO TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION PROCEDURE
I'm wondering the same thing if this calibration is performed on the factory-assembled KX3's? Mike AC6JA In a message dated 1/5/2013 9:55:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, hubb...@hotmail.com writes: Is this done as part of the factory calibration of assembled units? 73 - Mike WA8BXN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 EXTENDED VFO TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION PROCEDURE
No. It's a very time-consuming procedure, and until I come up with some quicker way to do it, it will have to remain optional at the user's preference. (The manufacturing team balked when I told them they'd need an industrial-size refrigerator, 10 hair dryers, and an additional hour of bench time per radio :) Keep in mind that for most KX3 owners, the extended compensation is not needed. You'll normally only need it if you're doing very narrowband modes like JT65 on the higher bands. If you do decided to do it, you'll need a very stable 6-meter signal source. We created a low-cost, stable oscillator (XG50) for those who don't have one. 73, Wayne N6KR On Jan 5, 2013, at 3:24 PM, ac...@aol.com wrote: I'm wondering the same thing if this calibration is performed on the factory-assembled KX3's? Mike AC6JA In a message dated 1/5/2013 9:55:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, hubb...@hotmail.com writes: Is this done as part of the factory calibration of assembled units? 73 - Mike WA8BXN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 EXTENDED VFO TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION PROCEDURE
Thanks Wayne. In a message dated 1/5/2013 3:47:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, n...@elecraft.com writes: No. It's a very time-consuming procedure, and until I come up with some quicker way to do it, it will have to remain optional at the user's preference. (The manufacturing team balked when I told them they'd need an industrial-size refrigerator, 10 hair dryers, and an additional hour of bench time per radio :) Keep in mind that for most KX3 owners, the extended compensation is not needed. You'll normally only need it if you're doing very narrowband modes like JT65 on the higher bands. If you do decided to do it, you'll need a very stable 6-meter signal source. We created a low-cost, stable oscillator (XG50) for those who don't have one. 73, Wayne N6KR On Jan 5, 2013, at 3:24 PM, ac...@aol.com wrote: I'm wondering the same thing if this calibration is performed on the factory-assembled KX3's? Mike AC6JA In a message dated 1/5/2013 9:55:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, hubb...@hotmail.com writes: Is this done as part of the factory calibration of assembled units? 73 - Mike WA8BXN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
