Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
Lots of learning ... even if trivial ... fallout from my question about the slashed zero. I've had a number of off-reflector requests for the font(s). BTW, several of them have the zero with a center dot instead of a slash. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
the old model 14, 15, 19, 32, 33 all had slashed zero too. Very important when reading tape or page printed with a worn ribbon. --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy _ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
the old model 14, 15, 19, 32, 33 all had slashed zero too. Very important when reading tape or page printed with a worn ribbon. --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy _ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: RE: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
In answer to Ken's question, my guess is that font doesn't matter with Paypal, banking, or anybody else. The ASCII codes for zero and the letter O are different and that's all any confuser cares about. How it is rendered on the screen or on paper is not relevant. Unless of course the slashed zero is yet another ASCII code? My first assignment back from Vietnam in 68 was to NASA in Houston working on Apollo. We sent our code to the keypunch ops on 80-column sheets. The NASA standard was to slash Oh's and zeros were not slashed. Very hard transition for an AF communications guy. We did most of our orbital mechanics and guidance analysis work on Univac 1108's. The MSC had 5 of them in a huge room with windows in a second floor hallway as Ron mentioned. We did some of the numerical integration stuff on CDC Cyber 175's [??] because the double precision word length was 128 bits. The real-time control system for Apollo was 5 [or maybe it was 6] interconnected IBM 360's ... -95 sticks in my mind but I'm not sure of that. Only the computer input that we created with pencil and paper slashed the Oh's. All the output used the round vs square font. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 08 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
As a high speed radio CW operator in the Army I was trained to slash a circle. No one said it was a slashed zero or a slashed letter 'O'. The shape was not important as long as the slash was there. We also slashed the letter 'Z' to distinguish it from the number '2', but as I have seen many times, we did not slash the number '7'. Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq Of course that practice was very important in the day of CW (and telegraph) hand-copied with pencil and paper. Block printing by hand at 20 WPM or so was just about my top speed and sometimes the shapes weren't quite so good as I'd have liked. I learned and used the slashed zero and Z to avoid ambiguity in all of my FCC exams. A few years later that practice came in handy in the Army for me too ;-) Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
Fred Jensen wrote: In answer to Ken's question, my guess is that font doesn't matter with Paypal, banking, or anybody else. The ASCII codes for zero and the letter O are different and that's all any confuser cares about. How it is rendered on the screen or on paper is not relevant. Unless of course the slashed zero is yet another ASCII code? Well, be it known that there is a slashed O as well, in Nordic languages. It exists in the extended ASCII code as well, although not eveyone can read it, depending on what codepage was used. I know that the TrueType font Terminal has the slashed zero an in some PSK software you can choose the zero to be slashed or not. 73 Peter, PA0PJE or PAØPJE (if you have the right character set...:-) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:06:45 -0700, Bill W5WVO wrote: Nice to know that IBM didn't successfully dictate everything in the computer world -- nor does even Microsoft do so today. In the early 1960s everyone had their own alphanumeric digital code. I was working on Project 465-L, the USAF SAC Command and Control System, where the message switch computers were built by ITT and used an alphabet called 465-L Field Code. I was an equipment configuration and test engineer but I shared a cubicle with Bob Mayer, a system programmer who was a pretty sharp guy. A few years later, Bob was asked to sit on a committee called the American Standards Committee for Information Interchange. The IBM rep was pounding the table for adoption of their EBCDIC code and Bob pounded the table for adoption of the 465-L Field Code. Bob won. It's now called ASCII after the initials of the Committee. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
EBCDIC!!! Aaaahh! Back in the early 1970s, some of our online data equipment had to be able to talk EBCDIC instead of ASCII in order to play nice with IBM systems. I never did learn EBCDIC; I just hoped and prayed it would go away sooner or later. It did. Sooner. :-) Bill Phil Kane wrote: The IBM rep was pounding the table for adoption of their EBCDIC code and Bob pounded the table for adoption of the 465-L Field Code. Bob won. It's now called ASCII after the initials of the Committee. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] OT - Type font question
I've just found and loaded a font with a slashed 0 into Windoze ... Does anyone have experience with non-radio use of a slashed zero (0)? Do postal ZIP code readers read it OK? Banking? PayPal? If anyone wants the font, e-mail me off-reflector and I'll provide forward it to you. The plain text requirement for the reflector deletes the slash, but it -IS- here. (:-) Yes, WAY off topic, but there's LOTS of knowledge here .. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
We used a slashed zero on DEC (Digital Equipment Corp.) computers. My experience with them was from 1966 to about 1975. At the time others were using a rounded O(letter oh) and a squared 0(zero). I found the slashed zero much easier to use. Mark AD5SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
In the late 1960's some IBM system programmers decided to use the solidus (slash) through the letter O to differentiate it from the simple circle that was used for zero at Sylvania's Electronic Defense Laboratories where I worked as a writer. It turned up in thousands of pages of output. I don't know if it was an IBM corporate decision or one made by the hordes of programmers in white coats who ministered to the huge room full of spinning tape drives and blinking lights at the Sylvania facility. (Yes, if you've ever seen an old James Bond movie about a computer center with all the tape drives, blinking lights and other gee-gaws, the real thing looked like that in the 60's. We mere mortals had a second-story walkway, safely outside the walls, where we could peer through windows and down at the white-coated servants as they scurried about between rows of tape drives and other mysterious racks of equipment serving the needs of the big machine.) The slashes through every letter O made reading anything in plain English produced by the system very difficult. That practice died a fairly quick and certain death. Perhaps it was because all of us writers, engineers and others who had to actually read the output of the system converged outside of the computer facility with pitchforks, burning torches and the like. As Mark pointed out, Digital and some others followed the communications industry standard and put the solidus through their zeros, just as telegraphers had done for a century by the mid 50's and teletypes and telex machines had done for decades by then. With appropriate prodding, the programmers on the Sylvania IBM system followed suit. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- We used a slashed zero on DEC (Digital Equipment Corp.) computers. My experience with them was from 1966 to about 1975. At the time others were using a rounded O(letter oh) and a squared 0(zero). I found the slashed zero much easier to use. Mark AD5SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: In the late 1960's some IBM system programmers decided to use the solidus (slash) through the letter O to differentiate it from the simple circle that was used for zero at Sylvania's Electronic Defense Laboratories where I worked as a writer. Ron, I remember that thankfully short-lived experiment, from probably around 1972. :-) I worked for a tax company that ran returns in a service bureau that was all IBM mainframe gear and IBM-trained ops and programmers. For a while I was rather confused, because I thought EVERYBODY used the slash through the zero, not through the alpha O -- after all, hams did it that way! I knew that much! I was told in no uncertain terms that the slash went through the O, not the zero. But after that one job that year, I never heard of it again. Nice to know that IBM didn't successfully dictate everything in the computer world -- nor does even Microsoft do so today. An idea still has to be a GOOD idea and have some merit, even if the most meritorious idea doesn't necessarily win 100% of the time... Bill W5WVO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
My recollection was that the slashed letter O was a COBOL thing. I'd just gotten out of the Navy where I'd learned to slash the number 0, and it was a wrench. I just looked at one of my 1401 Autocoder books, and it doesn't show the slashed O (or 0). Neither does the 7040 MAP book or listing. 73, doug From: Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:29:03 -0800 In the late 1960's some IBM system programmers decided to use the solidus (slash) through the letter O to differentiate it from the simple circle that was used for zero at Sylvania's Electronic Defense Laboratories where I worked as a writer. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Type font question
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:06:45 -0700, you wrote: Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: In the late 1960's some IBM system programmers decided to use the solidus (slash) through the letter O to differentiate it from the simple circle that was used for zero at Sylvania's Electronic Defense Laboratories where I worked as a writer. Ron, I remember that thankfully short-lived experiment, from probably around 1972. :-) I worked for a tax company that ran returns in a service bureau that was all IBM mainframe gear and IBM-trained ops and programmers. For a while I was rather confused, because I thought EVERYBODY used the slash through the zero, not through the alpha O -- after all, hams did it that way! I knew that much! I was told in no uncertain terms that the slash went through the O, not the zero. But after that one job that year, I never heard of it again. Nice to know that IBM didn't successfully dictate everything in the computer world -- nor does even Microsoft do so today. An idea still has to be a GOOD idea and have some merit, even if the most meritorious idea doesn't necessarily win 100% of the time... Bill W5WVO [snip] The last time I used TSO with a green screen, the zero was a zero with a dot in the middle. This was at Lockheed Martin in Ft. Worth about two years ago on a contract. I seem to remember that in the early 80's at General Dynamics (same place different name) it was as I described above. As a high speed radio CW operator in the Army I was trained to slash a circle. No one said it was a slashed zero or a slashed letter 'O'. The shape was not important as long as the slash was there. We also slashed the letter 'Z' to distinguish it from the number '2', but as I have seen many times, we did not slash the number '7'. Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin 1775 Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
